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Old 24th May 2016, 07:28 PM   #2681
tfk
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Is it too late for you to ask for a refund?
Yes, as a matter of fact, it is.

When I went to work for him, I was about 25 years old, and still wet behind the ears. Don was about 65, a distinguished, elderly, engineering hard-ass, who had cut his teeth as.a project manager (not an engineer, but a very practical, smart person) & then VP at Convair, in San Diego. A giant, successful aerospace company. An engineer's company.

He was an old school Republican, and I was a wild haired liberal from Boston, who had moved to San Diego right out of college.

I figured I was going to change his political / philosophical opinions about the world. One of us changed. It wasn't the one I had anticipated.

Don passed away about 15 years ago. Fortunately, I got several opportunities to drop back in & see him after I'd left the company. To thank him for being as demanding of me as he had been, and for being a great boss.

He was proud of my successes.
I was honored to know a fine, exceptionally competent, mentor.

Subsequently, I was the mentor for about 25 baby engineers, over 3 generations. That's the way it works in this profession. Some of my "kids" went on to do spectacular things. One was one of the finest, most successful engineers that Hewlett Packard had.

What on earth is your idiotic "ask for a refund" comment about?

Last edited by tfk; 24th May 2016 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 24th May 2016, 07:46 PM   #2682
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
The video speaks for itself. That must eat you up. No amount of skeptic nonsense can change what can clearly be seen. Pulverized concrete is seen immediately after the collapse begins. It's there. Anyone with eyes can see it.
And? (assuming it's concrete and not smoke).


Originally Posted by tfk View Post
But a relatively small percent of comminuted concrete can produce a LOT of dust.
This.^
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Old 24th May 2016, 07:54 PM   #2683
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
And? (assuming it's concrete and not smoke).
This.^
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Were the WTC towers concrete or steel?

OK.

Stop showing verinage. Concrete is not steel.
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Old 24th May 2016, 07:57 PM   #2684
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Originally Posted by tfk View Post
Yes, as a matter of fact, it is.

When I went to work for him, I was about 25 years old, and still wet behind the ears. Don was about 65, a distinguished, elderly, engineering hard-ass, who had cut his teeth as.a project manager (not an engineer, but a very practical, smart person) & then VP at Convair, in San Diego. A giant, successful aerospace company. An engineer's company.

He was an old school Republican, and I was a wild haired liberal from Boston, who had moved to San Diego right out of college.

I figured I was going to change his political / philosophical opinions about the world. One of us changed. It wasn't the one I had anticipated.

Don passed away about 15 years ago. Fortunately, I got several opportunities to drop back in & see him after I'd left the company. To thank him for being as demanding of me as he had been, and for being a great boss.

He was proud of my successes.
I was honored to know a fine, exceptionally competent, mentor.

Subsequently, I was the mentor for about 25 baby engineers, over 3 generations. That's the way it works in this profession. Some of my "kids" went on to do spectacular things. One was one of the finest, most successful engineers that Hewlett Packard had.

What on earth is your idiotic "ask for a refund" comment about?
I am sorry that he is no longer with us. I do mean that.

Now, on a separate note, if you took the politics out of the equation, and just showed him the collapses, he would laugh at you for saying the things you do. He would wonder where he went wrong.

He would probably drop a bowling ball on your head to remind you of what freefall is.

Actually, he would just probably make you take a middle-school level physics class to remind you of the basics.

Last edited by FalseFlag; 24th May 2016 at 08:16 PM.
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Old 24th May 2016, 08:16 PM   #2685
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
He would probably drop a bowling ball on your head to remind you of what freefall is.

Actually, he would just probably make you take a middle-school level physics class to remind you of the basics.
In middle school science they taught us about Terminal Velocity, which is the fastest speed a falling object can achieve based on the resistance of whatever it's falling through. Truthers, because they're morons, invented something called "Free Fall Speed", an unscientific term that has no real-world meaning nor function in physics nor science.

Your bowling ball would fall freely to the ground, but would not achieve Terminal Velocity if it was just dropped from the height of an average man. There is a formula to calculate how high you would have to drop the bowling ball to achieve that speed.

You can see the factors you need to know to make the calculations here:

http://www.calctool.org/CALC/eng/aerospace/terminal

The problem is that Troofers have confused Terminal Velocity with their silly free fall speed. The problem is that Terminal Velocity is a quantifiable, provable, reliable factor whereas free fall speed is whatever some moron wants it to be.

For example WTC never collapsed at it's potential Terminal Velocity.
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Old 24th May 2016, 08:22 PM   #2686
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
For example WTC never collapsed at it's potential Terminal Velocity.
So?
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Old 24th May 2016, 08:27 PM   #2687
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
So?
So nothing unusual happened to initiate the collapse of any of the buildings outside of the impact and fire damage.
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Old 24th May 2016, 09:22 PM   #2688
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Just a quick note. The Lurkers are not impressed with whatever you would call FF's ramblings. As it was ever thus.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
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Old 25th May 2016, 02:12 AM   #2689
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Were the WTC towers concrete or steel?
The floors? Concrete.


Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Stop showing verinage. Concrete is not steel.
So? That's a really poor evasion. You are alleging that the concrete in the towers pulverized, and I'm showing you an example of how concrete is expected to be pulverized and what effect is expected to be seen on impact of concrete surfaces. The amount of dust is expectably high even from a small quantity of pulverizing concrete.

So, back to my original question:
Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Pulverized concrete is seen immediately after the collapse begins. It's there. Anyone with eyes can see it.
And? (assuming it's concrete and not smoke).
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Old 25th May 2016, 02:23 AM   #2690
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A reminder for FalseFlag...
Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Are you saying I would make a good politician? If so, the similarities were not intended. There is a major difference between a politician and myself; I will admit when I'm wrong.
Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
The arbitrary time that NIST used is 5.3 seconds long. Please show me where NIST uses a collapse time of 18 seconds.
Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
It's all in NCSTAR 1-9, FF! Table 5-3. It actually adds to 16.5 seconds.

YOU HAVEN'T READ THE REPORTS, HAVE YOU, FF? How do expect to hope to refute NIST with anyone from Pete and Patty in Peoria, to the world's scientists and engineers, when you haven't even read the reports you're trying to refute?
Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
No idea where you pull that number out of (ok, I do have an idea), but this is what NIST say:
Beginning at roughly 6.9 s the brightness increases irreversibly to a value of 100 percent at which time the pixel under study represents the sky. Thus, the relative time at which the roofline began to move was estimated as 6.9 s. The time when the roofline dropped from view behind the buildings in the foreground was 12.3 s. Thus, the time the roofline took to fall 18 stories was approximately 5.4 s.
NCSTAR 1-9 vol 2 p.601
So the question is, when will you admit that you're wrong?
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Old 25th May 2016, 02:32 AM   #2691
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A fair amount of material expelled laterally as the twins collapsed was the easily pulverized clg tiles and gypsum wall board... the concrete was, to use the truth term... dustified as the collapsed progressed... much the way stone and concrete is dustified in industrial tumblers...collisions make dust. More collisions make more dust. Fine dust can be carried in the wind... even sand... and that's what happened to the friable material in all 3 bldgs... carried aloft and deposit down wind.
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Old 25th May 2016, 05:01 AM   #2692
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Curtains?

OK.

I knew you would come up with some lame excuse. You did not disappoint.
LOL
Now a 110 story building with thousands of windows doesn't have curtains.

just stop.
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Old 25th May 2016, 05:05 AM   #2693
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
You're aware, that not one video you have EVER shown, has shown what you think it does? Yes?
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Old 25th May 2016, 05:06 AM   #2694
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
I was bored and I watched parts of the video. I guess you think concrete pulverizes itself in midair. It can't, but I know I'm not going to change your mind.

It's also interesting to see the explosion about two floors below the fire line in WTC7 a few minutes before it collapses. I guess you don't see that.

I guess you also don't see the numerous smoking projectiles that come out of both towers at an almost regular basis. Every single one of them spins and leaves a curly smoke trail as it falls. I guess you have an explanation for those things, or you just ignore them.

You see what you want to. I get that.

What do you think caused this to happen?

I have my ready or is this where you trot out the cowardly "I'm not an a expert, I'm a clueless dolt" and dodge yet another question?
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Old 25th May 2016, 05:08 AM   #2695
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Originally Posted by tfk View Post
Now that I've answered your question, are you going to answer my question & show us exactly where the explosions happened in WTC7 that you claimed??

Or are you going to run away from your own assertion??
That's all Junior here is capable of. Remember him bailing from the conversation after it was proven NIST's collapse time was much more than the ~6 seconds Junior says it was?

Now that schooling is on some page in some thread somewhere, and it's safe for him to slink back in here and spew more bile.
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Old 25th May 2016, 11:10 AM   #2696
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The last video he posted undermined every argument he's made since he's been here.
  • No explosions
  • concrete chunks flying
  • Not reaching terminal velocity (free fall speed if you're a dpistick)
  • WTC7 receiving serious damage from WTC1

It's like he secretly wants us to believe that Al Qaeda hijacked a bunch of commercial jetliners and flew them into the WTC.
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Old 25th May 2016, 12:47 PM   #2697
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
The last video he posted undermined every argument he's made since he's been here.
  • No explosions
  • concrete chunks flying
  • Not reaching terminal velocity (free fall speed if you're a dpistick)
  • WTC7 receiving serious damage from WTC1

It's like he secretly wants us to believe that Al Qaeda hijacked a bunch of commercial jetliners and flew them into the WTC.
Typical truther methodology.

If at all possible, present your evidence in such a way that it completely refutes whatever point you just failed to make.
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Old 25th May 2016, 01:38 PM   #2698
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Typical truther methodology.

If at all possible, present your evidence in such a way that it completely refutes whatever point you just failed to make.
And then declare victory.

Dave
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Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 25th May 2016, 05:43 PM   #2699
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
So the question is, when will you admit that you're wrong?
I do it every time that I am wrong.
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Old 25th May 2016, 06:09 PM   #2700
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by FalseFlag
The video speaks for itself. That must eat you up. No amount of skeptic nonsense can change what can clearly be seen. Pulverized concrete is seen immediately after the collapse begins. It's there. Anyone with eyes can see it.
Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
You show smoke and lie. Like no plane liars, but you lie about concrete which can't be crushed instantly but after time. Thus you are a liar base on your fantasy version of 9/11 which never existed. Better luck with the planes, where were all proved with Radar Data.

Why lie about smoke being crushed concrete? Wallboard crushes easy, as does the under-floor insulation. You are missing reality, and playing the BS card.

What is your point? there are no explosives, adn thermite does not pulverize concrete; , no explosions are seen.

https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-0050-02/fs-050-02_508.pdf

You lie about 9/11, and you have no clue what the dust was made up of, and ignore the smoke. Why do you lie like no planers lie?

He's just trolling now. Don't feed the trolls. But maybe, just maybe, we can encourage him to post the Cindy Weil video to Truther sites and proclaim how it shows demolition charges going off!
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Old 25th May 2016, 06:14 PM   #2701
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
The last video he posted undermined every argument he's made since he's been here.
  • No explosions
  • concrete chunks flying
  • Not reaching terminal velocity (free fall speed if you're a dpistick)
  • WTC7 receiving serious damage from WTC1

It's like he secretly wants us to believe that Al Qaeda hijacked a bunch of commercial jetliners and flew them into the WTC.
Hey! I posted it first! As a matter of fact, I post it as often as I can in Truther discussions. For obvious reasons. He's just trolling now.
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Old 25th May 2016, 09:20 PM   #2702
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False Flag

And, as fully expected, the MAIN point of my post - that you're doing sloppy thinkers no favors by coddling their sloppy thinking - went right over your head. It was completely ignored by you, as your juvenile brain Gished its way to other, irrelevant, non-issues.

Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
I am sorry that he is no longer with us. I do mean that.
No, you don't. Stop lying to me.
In order to stop lying to me, you have to stop lying to yourself first.

The chance of THAT happening, on this topic: smack dab between slim & none.

You don't mean ANY of this.
It's just a pathetic game of knee-jerk contrarianism, so that you can maintain some delusion of moral/intellectual superiority.

The cold, hard reality is that you are no more "intellectually superior" than kyoon & his delusions of "micro-nukes" or yankee451 with his delusions of “the building being gutted prior to the attack & nobody really working there”.

Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Now, on a separate note, if you took the politics out of the equation, and just showed him the collapses, he would laugh at you for saying the things you do.
ONE of the two of us never throws politics into engineering discussions.
The OTHER of the two of us, does that all the time.

And you haven’t the slightest clue how first-rate managers work.
“Laughing at their employees” is a certain strategy for a failed career in management.

Don was a supremely rational person.
He knew his strengths: organization & management.
He knew my strengths: engineering & analysis.

Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
He would wonder where he went wrong. He would probably drop a bowling ball on your head to remind you of what freefall is.
No, he was NOTHING like you.
He knew what he did well. And he had the humility to recognize what he did not understand.

When it came to engineering, he would listen to me carefully.

That was, of course, after I’d earned his trust with successful designs.

Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Actually, he would just probably make you take a middle-school level physics class to remind you of the basics.
You’ve stated, over & over, whenever it was convenient for you because you could not answer simple questions, that you’re “not an expert”.

I’ve stated several times (whether or not you’ve seen it) that I have taught a university level Engineering Dynamics course to engineering students.

ONE of us understands “middle school physics”.
ONE of us has not the slightest clue what he is bloviating about.

I encourage you, right now, to state clearly, what aspect of the collapse of any of those buildings do you think would “violate any law of physics, if it was driven only by gravity after collapse initiation”?

Feel free to use as many equations as you wish in your analysis.

I’ll … do my best … to follow along…

Last edited by tfk; 25th May 2016 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 25th May 2016, 09:35 PM   #2703
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
I [admit that I am wrong] every time that I am wrong.
Just the latest, in a long, long line of assertions that you're wrong about.

the irony...
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Old 25th May 2016, 09:42 PM   #2704
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So, False Flag,

No posting of the explosions that you claim were visible in that collapse video.
No evidence of flaming cars before the collapse of WTC2??

You make stupid, wrong assertions.
Then, when called on them, you just run away from your own assertions.

Da Twoofer Way.!

One of the most important aspects of becoming a thinking person is "rigor".
Being demanding of yourself.

You haven't a clue how to do this.
You let yourself off the hook, time after time after time.
With no internally driven correction of your own mistakes.

You're lazy.
You're self-indulgent.
You're a sloppy thinker.

With these as your primary characteristics, you have no hope of becoming the slightest bit "intellectually admirable". They have left you, instead, being a public laughingstock.

You know, it ain't too late to change.
The only thing standing in your way is your own overblown, undeserved ego.
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Old 26th May 2016, 08:50 AM   #2705
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and your little dog as too!
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Old 26th May 2016, 03:34 PM   #2706
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
and your little dog as too!
Brevity, the soul of wit.

(Apparently, I have no soul...)
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Old 26th May 2016, 04:46 PM   #2707
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
I do it every time that I am wrong.
A demonstrable, yyuuuuggeee lie.
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Old 26th May 2016, 06:16 PM   #2708
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Originally Posted by tfk View Post
Then, when called on them, you just run away from your own assertions.
I have run from nothing. I simply won't answer your nonsense because I know it's pointless. You see what you want to see. Period.
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Old 26th May 2016, 06:22 PM   #2709
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Originally Posted by tfk View Post
I encourage you, right now, to state clearly, what aspect of the collapse of any of those buildings do you think would “violate any law of physics, if it was driven only by gravity after collapse initiation”?
Wait. Why? What does physics have to do with engineering? Isn't physics considered science? Didn't you say
Originally Posted by tfk View Post
This topic ain’t “science”.
It’s “engineering”.
Oh, wait, you did say that, which is why I quoted your exact text.
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Old 26th May 2016, 06:24 PM   #2710
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Originally Posted by tfk View Post
You're lazy.
Maybe.
Quote:
You're self-indulgent.
Maybe.
Quote:
You're a sloppy thinker.
The last one has nothing to do with the first two, and you're wrong.

Last edited by FalseFlag; 26th May 2016 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 26th May 2016, 06:26 PM   #2711
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Originally Posted by tfk View Post
ONE of us understands “middle school physics”.
No. We both do. The difference is that one of us isn't ignoring it.

You keep emphasizing the "fact" that you are an engineer. It's irrelevant, and here's why.

Imagine a person is an apple farmer. They have been one for their entire lives. They hand you an orange but they insist it's an apple. Do you believe them even though you know they are wrong? They can say whatever they want, but an orange is an orange. The "expertise" of the person making the statement is irrelevant if you know the statement is wrong.

Imagine a person is a mathematician with a PhD. The mathematician says that 1 + 1 equals 876. Do you believe them just because they have a degree in mathematics? You don't have to be a mathematician to know that 1 + 1 = 2. It does not matter what the "expert" says, and you don't have to be an expert to know he's wrong.

Now, imagine some anonymous person posts something on the internet. The person claims to be an authority on a subject, but that person routinely makes claims that a non-expert can see is wrong. Is the non-expert supposed to give credibility to the expert when the expert can't even get the simple stuff right? No. The answer is no.

Your expertise is meaningless when you deny basic principles of physics.

Last edited by FalseFlag; 26th May 2016 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 26th May 2016, 07:00 PM   #2712
ProBonoShill
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
No. We both do. The difference is that one of us isn't ignoring it.

You keep emphasizing the "fact" that you are an engineer. It's irrelevant, and here's why.

Imagine a person is an apple farmer. They have been one for their entire lives. They hand you an orange but they insist it's an apple. Do you believe them even though you know they are wrong? They can say whatever they want, but an orange is an orange. The "expertise" of the person making the statement is irrelevant if you know the statement is wrong.

Imagine a person is a mathematician with a PhD. The mathematician says that 1 + 1 equals 876. Do you believe them just because they have a degree in mathematics? You don't have to be a mathematician to know that 1 + 1 = 2. It does not matter what the "expert" says, and you don't have to be an expert to know he's wrong.

Now, imagine some anonymous person posts something on the internet. The person claims to be an authority on a subject, but that person routinely makes claims that a non-expert can see is wrong. Is the non-expert supposed to give credibility to the expert when the expert can't even get the simple stuff right? No. The answer is no.

Your expertise is meaningless when you deny basic principles of physics.
How about we deal with reality.

Any competent farmer will know an apple from an orange.

Any competent mathematician will know 1+1=2.

tfk has taught University level engineering courses and is fully licensed to practice his profession so clearly he's competent, what are your qualifications?

Oh wait that's right you're not expert, but think you can teach engineering to engineers and science to PhD's. You realize how dumb this makes you look don't you?
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Old 26th May 2016, 07:00 PM   #2713
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
I have run from nothing. I simply won't answer your nonsense because I know it's pointless. You see what you want to see. Period.
How long did NIST day it took for WTC 7 to collapse?
I vividly remember you running away from that, as well as this.
So stop lying.
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Old 26th May 2016, 07:01 PM   #2714
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Your expertise is meaningless when you deny basic principles of physics.
You mean like when someone is clueless about scale and Newton's laws?
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Old 26th May 2016, 07:02 PM   #2715
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
Maybe.

Maybe.

The last one has nothing to do with the first two.
The first two cause the last one.
LOL
Man. Just wow.
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Old 26th May 2016, 07:04 PM   #2716
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
I have run from nothing. I simply won't answer your nonsense because I know it's pointless. You see what you want to see. Period.
Found that video yet champ? You know the one with the ultra loud bangs associated with CD?
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Old 26th May 2016, 07:06 PM   #2717
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Originally Posted by ProBonoShill View Post
Any competent farmer will know an apple from an orange.
We agree.
Quote:
Any competent mathematician will know 1+1=2.
We agree.
Quote:
tfk has taught University level engineering courses and is fully licensed to practice his profession so clearly he's competent, what are your qualifications?
I am not an expert.
Quote:
Oh wait that's right you're not expert,
You knew what was coming.
Quote:
but think you can teach engineering to engineers and science to PhD's
Please copy and paste the exact text where you claim I have said this.
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Old 26th May 2016, 07:07 PM   #2718
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Originally Posted by ProBonoShill View Post
Found that video yet champ? You know the one with the ultra loud bangs associated with CD?
Who says CD has to have ultra-loud bangs? That is an arbitrary condition that you have set.
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Old 26th May 2016, 07:08 PM   #2719
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Originally Posted by ProBonoShill View Post
You mean like when someone is clueless about scale and Newton's laws?
If you are talking about tfk, then yes.
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Old 26th May 2016, 07:08 PM   #2720
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Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
We agree.

We agree.

I am not an expert.

You knew what was coming.

Please copy and paste the exact text where you claim I have said this.
When have you not said or done it?

Looks like your still attempting to do it.
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