[Merged] Does Elie Wiesel have a tatoo, or not?

Saggy · 19th May 2010, 02:19 PM

Wiesel claims to have A-7713 tatooed on his left arm, and yet no one has seen the tattoo. Now, at codoh.com there is an offer of a reward of $500.00 to anyone who can produce a photo of Wiesel's tattoo.

There are photos of his left arm that appear to show that he has no tattoo.

Does he have a tattoo or not? Seems like a good question to ask at his next speaking engagement.

NWOisBunk · 19th May 2010, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Saggy

Wiesel claims to have A-7713 tatooed on his left arm, and yet no one has seen the tattoo. Now, at codoh.com there is an offer of a reward of $500.00 to anyone who can produce a photo of Wiesel's tattoo.

There are photos of his left arm that appear to show that he has no tattoo.

Does he have a tattoo or not? Seems like a good question to ask at his next speaking engagement.

So... is the entirety of the holocaust's truth or falsity is based on whether Elie Wiesel has a tattoo?

Sledge · 19th May 2010, 02:27 PM

Hands up anyone who cares. Anyone at all?

...

Is that someone at the back? Oh, sorry, it's just Marduk doing his Statue of Liberty impression.

plumjam · 19th May 2010, 02:31 PM

Seems he doesn't.
Check out http://ElieWiesel'sTatoo.il

Bell · 19th May 2010, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Saggy

Wiesel claims to have A-7713 tatooed on his left arm, and yet no one has seen the tattoo. Now, at codoh.com there is an offer of a reward of $500.00 to anyone who can produce a photo of Wiesel's tattoo.

There are photos of his left arm that appear to show that he has no tattoo.

Does he have a tattoo or not? Seems like a good question to ask at his next speaking engagement.

And mr. Wiesel having or not having a tattoo means what exactly?

ShadowSot · 19th May 2010, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by plumjam

Seems he doesn't.
Check out http://ElieWiesel'sTatoo.il

Links not working for me, might be just my work computer though.
ETA: Ah, right.

Quote:

And mr. Wiesel having or not having a tattoo means what exactly?

He wrote one of the definitive first hand accounts of the Holocaust. The Holocaust is a hoax crowd would captialize him not having a tattoo as proof against it.

Bell · 19th May 2010, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by ShadowSot

He wrote one of the definitive first hand accounts of the Holocaust. The Holocaust is a hoax crowd would captialize him not having a tattoo as proof against it.

Then the Holohaux crowd should grow a brain. Oh, wait...

Seriously, their whole hypothesis stands or falls with one guy having or not having a tattoo?

Also, 500 Dollars for a picture of his tattoo? They could spent that money more wisely. How about a visit here, here or here to start with.

TSR · 19th May 2010, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Saggy

Now, at codoh.com there is an offer of a reward of $500.00 to anyone who can produce a photo of Wiesel's tattoo.

.
And, given that this is CODOH, how can we be sure the money is actually available for this "reward?"

I mean, this is after all the forum favoured by Greg Gerdes with his bogus and ever-changing "NAFCASH" challenge.

Give us a heads up when the money can be confirmed to be in escrow with appropriate instructions for disbursement, and maybe it would be worth someone's time to acquire such a photo.

Those instructions would need to cover the issue that such a photo would automatically be characterized as faked, and so detail how it would be authenticated, just so no one moves the goal posts...

Then you can tell us all how the presence or absence of a tattoo would make a bit of difference to, for example, your dishonest claim to have pictures which "prove" that the gas chamber @ Dachau was a functional shower room?
.

ShadowSot · 19th May 2010, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by Bell

Then the Holohaux crowd should grow a brain. Oh, wait...

Seriously, their whole hypothesis stands or falls with one guy having or not having a tattoo?

Also, 500 Dollars for a picture of his tattoo? They could spent that money more wisely. How about a visit here, here or here to start with.

Didn't say it made sense.

timhau · 19th May 2010, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by Sledge

Hands up anyone who cares. Anyone at all?

...

Is that someone at the back? Oh, sorry, it's just Marduk doing his Statue of Liberty impression.

Hey, over there is a guy who... no wait, it's just MaGZ Sieg Heiling again.

angrysoba · 20th May 2010, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by Saggy

Wiesel claims to have A-7713 tatooed on his left arm, and yet no one has seen the tattoo. Now, at codoh.com there is an offer of a reward of $500.00 to anyone who can produce a photo of Wiesel's tattoo.

There are photos of his left arm that appear to show that he has no tattoo.

Does he have a tattoo or not? Seems like a good question to ask at his next speaking engagement.

Did your father actually have a penis?

No one has ever seen it. Not even your mother. So it is possible that you produced asexually or maybe simply created in a lab.

Can you prove this is not true?

NWOisBunk · 20th May 2010, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Did your father actually have a penis?

No one has ever seen it. Not even your mother. So it is possible that you produced asexually or maybe simply created in a lab.

Can you prove this is not true?

I think you're onto something here. I also want to see his birth certificate. Unless I see that I don't accept that he was born in the country he claims he was born in or that he was actually born.

TSR · 20th May 2010, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Did your father actually have a penis?

.
Actually not a bad question, since it has been demonstrated the Saggy hasn't the balls to admit zie was lying about being able to prove that the gas chamber @ Dachau was actually a functional shower room...
.

Spindrift · 20th May 2010, 07:00 AM

After a little googlizing, it appears that some believe Elie Weisel stole the book Night from another victim named Lazar Weisel whose tattoo was A-7713. Also something about mixing in Christian theology into the book to save Jewish souls. Oh and Elie Weisel's not his real name.

Even if all that was true, guess what? That means the book Night is still basically true! If the Nolocausters want to go this route to discredit Weisel, they are confirming the Holocaust in the process.

headscratcher4 · 20th May 2010, 07:12 AM

So, the truth of the holocaust depends on whether or not Wiesel has a tatoo...but Himmler's Posnan speech, recorded and attested to by men in attendence is an obvious fraud with this crowd. Hmmmm.

headscratcher4 · 20th May 2010, 07:25 AM

Here's a bold statement: If it were proved that Weisel was 100% a liar and a fraud...the holocaust would still be a historical fact. What the denires want to believe is that individual witnesses somehow make the case for the holocaust, discredit a witness (which they've not done in Weisel's case, BTW) the house of cards as it were, falls. But the house of bricks that is the holocaust is built not on individual witnesses -- compelling, horrifying and edifying as individual witness stories are -- it is built on actions, laws, documents, photographs, film, etc. as well as individual witness statments. Indeed, like Himmler's Posnan speech, the best evidence is often that supplied by the perpetrators, not the victems.

In short, Wiesel -- though a powerful witness voice -- is ultimately irrelevant to the reality of Hitler's final solution. It is Hitler, Goebles, Himmler, Hydrich, Eichman and all of the little Hoesse's of the world that are the proof of the holocaust. In short, to prove the holocaust didn't happen you would essentially have to prove that Hitler didn't exist and that Nazism didn't rule Germany from 1932 till 1945. Prove Hitler didn't exist, you will easilly prove the holocaust a hoax. Prove Weisel wasn't an inmate at Auschwitz, all you prove is that Weisel is a liar and wasn't at Auschwitz...it proves nothing more about the existence and function of Auschwitz.

angrysoba · 20th May 2010, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Spindrift

After a little googlizing, it appears that some believe Elie Weisel stole the book Night from another victim named Lazar Weisel whose tattoo was A-7713. Also something about mixing in Christian theology into the book to save Jewish souls. Oh and Elie Weisel's not his real name.

Even if all that was true, guess what? That means the book Night is still basically true! If the Nolocausters want to go this route to discredit Weisel, they are confirming the Holocaust in the process.

I think that was the subject of a recent post here in which some "ingenious" attempt was made to have the Holocaust disputed by saying Elie Weisel made the claim that someone was "remote-viewing" in his book.

I think now that the poster was attempting to provoke the "that couldn't have happened" response in which case he could say, "Ahhh! That disproves Elie Weisel's book and that means it disproves the Holocaust! Ha ha!" Of course the said poster didn't count on the possibility that Weisel was employing standard literary techniques to demonstrate the ominous nature of what lay ahead.

So then the same poster pulled out another trick suggesting that Weisel had in fact plagiarised the work with the rather hopeful chain of reasoning that if Weisel was lying then maybe he was lying about the Holocaust and therefore the Holocaust didn't happen.

These Holocaust deniers are a bunch of thick Jew-haters to whom rational thought is alien.

NWOisBunk · 20th May 2010, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

These Holocaust deniers are a bunch of thick Jew-haters to whom rational thought is alien.

What I find pretty hilarious is that many holocaust deniers swear up and down they are not Jew haters yet so many of them are obsessed with what Jews are up to, Jewish misdeeds etc. When I look at the web page for the Institute for Historical Review... I'm greeted with stuff about how the Jews welcomed the Soviet Takeover of Poland in 1939 or how there are too many Jews on the Supreme Court.

dudalb · 20th May 2010, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

I think that was the subject of a recent post here in which some "ingenious" attempt was made to have the Holocaust disputed by saying Elie Weisel made the claim that someone was "remote-viewing" in his book.

I think now that the poster was attempting to provoke the "that couldn't have happened" response in which case he could say, "Ahhh! That disproves Elie Weisel's book and that means it disproves the Holocaust! Ha ha!" Of course the said poster didn't count on the possibility that Weisel was employing standard literary techniques to demonstrate the ominous nature of what lay ahead.

So then the same poster pulled out another trick suggesting that Weisel had in fact plagiarised the work with the rather hopeful chain of reasoning that if Weisel was lying then maybe he was lying about the Holocaust and therefore the Holocaust didn't happen.

These Holocaust deniers are a bunch of thick Jew-haters to whom rational thought is alien.

I would say 90% of them are.
The other Ten Percent are trolls who get a kick out of outraging people,A Few Libertarians(by no means all) who support it because it supports their contention that US involvment in WW2 was a mistake,as part of their isolationist viewpoint, and the usual gang of idiots who will support any idea that is "Daring" "Unconventional" "Edgy" and "Anti Establishment".

defaultdotxbe · 20th May 2010, 11:02 AM

ok, so elie weisel wrote one of the definitive firsthand accounts of the holocaust, which, assuming the holocaust is a hoax, means he must be pretty comitted to the lie

if thats the case, why didnt he just get the number tattooed on his arm himself? ive seen people with the tattoos with my own eyes so some people must be doing it

its another case of are they geniuses or are they idiots?

Roadtoad · 20th May 2010, 11:18 AM

Perhaps the most insulting thing about this whole business is that while the Holocaust has been so thoroughly documented, it is still being denied by people who have the intelligence to know better.

In some cases, tattoos fade. They never really go away completely, but given the behavior of the deniers, it wouldn't surprise me if someone were to photoshop out Weisel's tattoo, then claim he never had one. And while I'd love to see Weisel pull his sleeve up and poke the deniers in the eyes with that abominable mark, he's well within his rights to tell them to go to the Hell they richly deserve.

Reading Weisel's book, Night, and the essays which have followed have left a painful mark for me. I read the book in one evening, then couldn't sleep for the next two. We deceive ourselves when we say "It can't happen here," because in ages past, it did. We just got better press for it, complete with John Wayne in Cavalry Blue popping off shots with a Winchester and a couple of Colts, saving the wagon train. (Factually, more settlers died from disease and accidental gunshots, and most of those who made it were actually helped more often than not by the very Indians who wound up being forced off their land and onto reservations.)

The deniers aren't simply denying the Holocaust. They are denying their own humanity, their own rights as members of the human community. They aren't simply disgracing themselves, but the very societies they claim to support. Most Germans, to my mind, would rather own up and deal with this open wound and allow it to heal rather than perpetuate this monstrous lie.

headscratcher4 · 20th May 2010, 11:50 AM

The thing is -- and I think Weisel would agree with this -- he has absolutely nothing to prove to the Saggys of the world. It is a little the Obama birth certificate, even if he showed Birthers the "original" it wouldn't satisfy them in any fashion, so why play the game.

Indeed, the burden is entirely on Saggy and his ilk...and that burden isn't poking holes in the memory of old men who may or may not have got all details right...it is showing systematically that the vast paper trail of documents, trial testemony, archetechtual drawings, film footage and scholarly study is wrong and wrong in some critical game changing way.

Just as the Irvings of the world comb through the detritus of Nazism and say: aha! There's no signed order by Hitler (btw, what documents do you think they were buring in the Chancellory and the bunker in that last month of the war? Hitler's DMV certificate? His marraige licence? His mortgage?), there for in spite of all of the recorded statements by Hitler that the Jews deserved distruction and that the war was a war of destruction they broght down on themselves, there was no holocaust.

So here's the challenge to Saggy and his ilk. The holocaust exists and is completely proven until you can produce a paper from Hitler, from Himmler, from Goebles, from Bormann, from Gorieng, From Frick, from Hydrich, from Eichman saying: don't harm the jews. Don't put them in Ghettos. Don't restrict their access to the outside world. Don't round them up. Don't close their businesses. Don't move them East. Don't.

There are no documents saying "don't". There are no official inquireries from Berlin demanding that the German Army not abuse Jews. There are no prohibitions for illegal arrest of entire populations. There are no orders demanding refugee jewish populations get more food. There are no orders requiring that German forces and German police treat jews and all non germans with respect and respect their basic human rights. There are no orders prohibiting medical experimentation on unwilling prisoners. There are no orders demanding that Jews be treated immediately for typhus (to put to rest the cannard that whatever deaths occured it was because of diseases in overcrowded conditions), and there are no orders to not create overcrowded and unsanitary conditions.

So, in short there are no orders contraveneing the mistreatment of jews and other minorities.

So Saggy, you prove the negative. No orders contravening any of these activities by your own flawless logic suggests to me that all of these activities occured...oh, yes, and besides, there are literally hundreds of tons of documents, testimony, pictures and films explicitly demonstrating that the activities for which there were not contrevening orders for, specifically and exactly occured.

TSR · 22nd May 2010, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by TSR

.
And, given that this is CODOH, how can we be sure the money is actually available for this "reward?"

I mean, this is after all the forum favoured by Greg Gerdes with his bogus and ever-changing "NAFCASH" challenge.

Give us a heads up when the money can be confirmed to be in escrow with appropriate instructions for disbursement, and maybe it would be worth someone's time to acquire such a photo.

Those instructions would need to cover the issue that such a photo would automatically be characterized as faked, and so detail how it would be authenticated, just so no one moves the goal posts...

Then you can tell us all how the presence or absence of a tattoo would make a bit of difference to, for example, your dishonest claim to have pictures which "prove" that the gas chamber @ Dachau was a functional shower room?
.

.
One notes that, despite making the post to begin with, Saggy is unable to document that this money actually exists. Just like zir inability to come up with those pics zie claimed proved the gas chamber @ Dachau was a functional shower room...
.

Saggy · 22nd May 2010, 05:41 PM

Eric Hunt has found photos, and a video, showing that Wiesel does not have a tattoo on his left forearm, the usual place for Auschwitz tattoos. See them here...

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=6001

What does this mean? I don't know, but for sure Elie has some 'splaining to do. His book Night reads true to me except for the obvious phantasmagoria (the babies tossed into the air for machine gun practice, 'remember Madame Schacter, on the train', and the Jew who kills his father for a scrap of bread) so it will be interesting if it is a complete fraud.

The Platypus · 22nd May 2010, 06:15 PM

only 500.00? A paparazzi gets more than that for a picture of a pimple on paris hilton.

Bell · 22nd May 2010, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by Saggy

Eric Hunt has found photos, and a video, showing that Wiesel does not have a tattoo on his left forearm, the usual place for Auschwitz tattoos. See them here...

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=6001

Really? Those grainy pictures are the best the Holocaust Deniers can do? You realize that tattoos fade over time, and also where not set in 2 inch high numbers?

Quote:

What does this mean? I don't know, but for sure Elie has some 'splaining to do. His book Night reads true to me except for the obvious phantasmagoria (the babies tossed into the air for machine gun practice, 'remember Madame Schacter, on the train', and the Jew who kills his father for a scrap of bread) so it will be interesting if it is a complete fraud.

Are you calling Wiesel a liar? If so, I'm sure you can back up this claim?

Originally Posted by The Platypus

only 500.00? A paparazzi gets more than that for a picture of a pimple on paris hilton.

I said before. Truth (TM) is cheap.

Loss Leader · 22nd May 2010, 08:04 PM

I have to say, I certainly hope that Wiesel was lying. It would be a great relief to me to know that such evil had not occurred. And then, I'm sure, my great uncle, his wife, children and all their descendents would finally make contact with us from their "resettlement" camp in the east. We'll all eat and laugh and drink a toast to the silly people who ever believed that the events in Night actually happened to people in my family.

Saggy · 23rd May 2010, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by Loss Leader

I have to say, I certainly hope that Wiesel was lying. It would be a great relief to me to know that such evil had not occurred. And then, I'm sure, my great uncle, his wife, children and all their descendents would finally make contact with us from their "resettlement" camp in the east. We'll all eat and laugh and drink a toast to the silly people who ever believed that the events in Night actually happened to people in my family.

Sorry, Norm Finklestein says no respect for crocodile tears....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNQSV3BBtZ4

Bell · 23rd May 2010, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by Saggy

Sorry, Norm Finklestein says no respect for crocodile tears....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNQSV3BBtZ4

Boy oh boy, did you miss the context on that one

CORed · 23rd May 2010, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by The Platypus

only 500.00? A paparazzi gets more than that for a picture of a pimple on paris hilton.

That was all the money from all the couches of all the holocaust deniers in the world.

Spindrift · 23rd May 2010, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Saggy

... so it will be interesting if it is a complete fraud.

Exactly what would be interesting?

Isn't it more interesting because it's true?

TSR · 23rd May 2010, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Saggy

Sorry, Norm Finklestein says no respect for crocodile tears....

,
Does Norm agree with you that the Holocaust didn't happen?
,

Roadtoad · 24th May 2010, 07:25 PM

Aside from the central fallacy that the absence of a tattoo on Weisel's arm somehow invalidates the totality of evidence regarding the Holocaust, the greater horror here is that anyone is even asking whether or not the Holocaust happened.

Considering that the National Archives hold nearly all of the available Nazi records, or at least facsimiles of them, including the blueprints for the death camps, considering how over the years those same records have been used to try and convict war criminals from World War II, and considering there have been very few of those convictions overturned, it leaves me wondering what sort of monster questions that this happened.

At no point was Adolf Eichmann's conviction challenged with factual evidence. The man himself was proud to declare that he killed Jews. His sole "defense" is that he was simply following orders, a defense that didn't do Lynndie England any more good than it did Eichmann. There are literally volumes of photographs of the dead, the instruments used to kill them, and reams of testimony of those who not only suffered at the hands of the Nazis, but testimony from the Nazis themselves, proud to have committed one of the most notorious examples of genocide in recorded history.

We have artifacts from the time, including the structures built to kill the Jews, Gypsies, mentally ill, politically inconvenient, morally upstanding. We have the writings of Bonhoeffer, among others, who stood against the Nazis and paid for it with his life. We have the nightmarish record from William Shirer, who traced the whole disaster from Hitler's time in a WWI hospital, where he claimed he was a victim of a mustard gas poisoning, to the ignominious end as Germany collapsed in a charred, smoking ruin, divided into four sectors to be ruled until it could re-establish self-rule. We have the testimony of the survivors of the Death Camps, and from those who managed to live through the war, as well as their children.

The Holocaust happened.

I have met survivors of this horror. I have seen the marks on their arms, but more often than not, what I've seen of the elderly is a dark smudge where the numbers used to be. The ink fades; the nightmare never will.

It is nothing short of barbaric that in this day and age, because some think it's convenient, or that this will imbue them with a degree of power, that there's some who will deny a historically documented event, an age when one of the most civilized nations on the Earth chose to cast aside its integrity, its honor, its moral courage, and that it did so as a betrayal of those who had served in its military, served in its government, and had enriched Germany's culture, history, and intellect.

The Holocaust happened. Denying it does not change that. It was every bit as real an event as the Armenian Genocide, as the massacres across the American Great Plains. It was an evil act, and it should be remembered.

And trying to smear Elie Weisel because his tattoo is not entirely visible, that the ink has faded, simply undercuts the claims of any and all who want us to believe this horror never happened.

Damn you. Every single one of you deniers. Damn you all.

Saggy · 26th May 2010, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Roadtoad

At no point was Adolf Eichmann's conviction challenged with factual evidence. The man himself was proud to declare that he killed Jews.

This is typical Zionist drivel that has no connection with reality. From Eichmann's final statement at his hoax trial ...

"If I had received the order to carry out these killings, I would not have escaped by using a trumped up pretext; during my interrogation I already stated: Since because of the compulsion exerted by an order there was no way out, I would have put a bullet through my brain in order to solve the conflict between conscience and duty."

Eichmann actually thought he was going to be freed. He said everything the court wanted him to say.

TSR · 26th May 2010, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by Saggy

From Eichmann's final statement at his hoax trial ...

"If I had received the order to carry out these killings, I would not have escaped by using a trumped up pretext; during my interrogation I already stated: Since because of the compulsion exerted by an order there was no way out, I would have put a bullet through my brain in order to solve the conflict between conscience and duty."

Eichmann actually thought he was going to be freed. He said everything the court wanted him to say.

.

That's right, Eichmann denied that he ever personally committed murder.

But then, he also said:

Quote:

I understand the demand for atonement for the crimes which were perpetrated against the Jews. The witnesses' statements here in the Court made my limbs go numb once again, just as they went numb when once, acting on orders, I had to look at the atrocities. It was my misfortune to become entangled in these atrocities. But these misdeeds did not happen according to my wishes. It was not my wish to slay people. The guilt for the mass murder is solely that of the political leaders.

What crimes and atrocities and misdeeds and mass murders do you think he was referring to, Saggy? Remember, he was already found guilty, and knew this, so had no further reason to say anything "the court wanted him to say?"

Quote:

Höss was the one who actually carried out the mass killings.

Which mass killings, Saggy?

Quote:

...I was considered to be the person who was responsible for everything. The reason for this lies in the fact that the National Socialists of the time and others have spread untruths about me. They wanted to exonerate themselves at my expense...

Exonerate themselves from what, Saggy?

Quote:

I thank my Counsel, who has insisted on my rights.

Which directly refutes your "hoax trial" lie, Saggy.

Have you doung those pics which prove the Dachau gas chamber was actually a functional shower room, yet?
.

Saggy · 27th May 2010, 05:33 AM

Originally Posted by TSR

.

Remember, he was already found guilty, and knew this, so had no further reason to say anything "the court wanted him to say?"

He was obviously appealing for clemency. He was not dead. He had not been executed. He had every reason to try to convince the court not to execute him, which is exactly what he was trying to do.

Originally Posted by TSR

.
Which directly refutes your "hoax trial" lie, Saggy.

In the normal course of a court trial there is a plea of not-guilty and then a trial. In the course of a hoax trial there is a confession, and then a trial. Eichmann 'confessed' to everything the Jews wanted, yet they tried him. That was a classic hoax trial. Expect to see another shortly ? in the case of Khalid Shaik Mohammad.

There is an telling side light - I think it was discussed on this forum - where the prosecution showed a movie containing a scene of severed heads in a bucket, no identification of who took the movie, where it was taken, who the heads belonged to, why they were killed, absolutely nothing ... and Eichmann's 'defense' council gave it his tacit OK. A macabre farce.

Originally Posted by TSR

.
Have you doung those pics

LOL

Sledge · 27th May 2010, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by Saggy

In the normal course of a court trial there is a plea of not-guilty and then a trial.

Surely this is a Stundie?

JimBenArm · 27th May 2010, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by Sledge

Surely this is a Stundie?

No. It would be if anyone ever plead guilty, but since that never happens...

TSR · 27th May 2010, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by Saggy

He was obviously appealing for clemency. He was not dead. He had not been executed. He had every reason to try to convince the court not to execute him, which is exactly what he was trying to do.

,
... because the "just following orders" defense had been so successful for other Nazis before.

Have you anything except a fervent need that it be so to support your fantasy that Eichmann, at this point, thought he would get anything but the noose? Because in July of that year, he explicitly told the court that he fully expected the death penalty.
,

Originally Posted by Saggy

In the normal course of a court trial there is a plea of not-guilty and then a trial. In the course of a hoax trial there is a confession, and then a trial. Eichmann 'confessed' to everything the Jews wanted, yet they tried him. That was a classic hoax trial. Expect to see another shortly ? in the case of Khalid Shaik Mohammad.

,
Really? KSM gave an interview to Life Magazine, long before he was found to be living under a false name, in which he confessed -- nay, boasted about his crimes?
,

Originally Posted by Saggy

There is an telling side light - I think it was discussed on this forum - where the prosecution showed a movie containing a scene of severed heads in a bucket, no identification of who took the movie, where it was taken, who the heads belonged to, why they were killed, absolutely nothing ... and Eichmann's 'defense' council gave it his tacit OK. A macabre farce.

,
Another lie.
,

Originally Posted by Saggy

LOL

,
Indeed. Have you managed to Photoshop those pics of the Dachau 'shower room' yet?
,

Saggy · 27th May 2010, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by TSR

,
... because the "just following orders" defense had been so successful for other Nazis before.

I think it was successful in many trials, but I don't have the data. Many Nazis were given a few years only, and many had those sentences shortened.

Originally Posted by TSR

,
Another lie.

Well, I wanted to look this up to bookmark the ref ... so I did ... the thread was 'Soviets Faked Footage at Auschwitz'

Originally Posted by Saggy

Haha .... from the 'rebuttal' it appears that no one knows where the film came from. But no problem

..... let's check the 'authentication' process ...

Attorney General: With the Court's permission, last night we screened the films - which the Court will now see - in the

presence of representatives of the Prosecution, and in the presence of Dr. Servatius and nine identification witnesses.

They are: Mrs. Salzberger, Mr. Hoch, Mr. Aviel, Mr. Melkman, Mr. Ben-Zvi, Mr. Bakon, Mrs. Kagan, Mr. Chen and Mr. Aharon

Hoter-Yishai. As a result of the screening, Defence Counsel agreed that, indeed, each of the witnesses identified a

portion of the pictures, and hence, in this way, the entire screening was authenticated. I understand that Defence Counsel

does not insist that the oath be administered to these identifying witnesses, but they are present here, at the Court's

disposal, should the Court desire further authentication from them or to put additional questions to them.

Presiding Judge: That means there will be no testimony..

This degenerate trash was used against Eichmann without a word of authentication. How grotesque can the Israeli court

be? Answer: there is no limit.

19th May 2010, 02:19 PM	#1
Saggy Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,804	Does Elie Wiesel have a tatoo, or not? Wiesel claims to have A-7713 tatooed on his left arm, and yet no one has seen the tattoo. Now, at codoh.com there is an offer of a reward of $500.00 to anyone who can produce a photo of Wiesel's tattoo. There are photos of his left arm that appear to show that he has no tattoo. Does he have a tattoo or not? Seems like a good question to ask at his next speaking engagement.
Saggy Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,804

19th May 2010, 02:25 PM	#2
NWOisBunk Scholar Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 83	Originally Posted by Saggy Wiesel claims to have A-7713 tatooed on his left arm, and yet no one has seen the tattoo. Now, at codoh.com there is an offer of a reward of $500.00 to anyone who can produce a photo of Wiesel's tattoo. There are photos of his left arm that appear to show that he has no tattoo. Does he have a tattoo or not? Seems like a good question to ask at his next speaking engagement. So... is the entirety of the holocaust's truth or falsity is based on whether Elie Wiesel has a tattoo?
NWOisBunk Scholar Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 83

19th May 2010, 02:27 PM	#3
Sledge Grammaton Cleric Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 7,114	Hands up anyone who cares. Anyone at all? ... Is that someone at the back? Oh, sorry, it's just Marduk doing his Statue of Liberty impression.
Sledge Grammaton Cleric Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 7,114	__________________ "The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.

19th May 2010, 02:31 PM	#4
plumjam Banned Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 7,819	Seems he doesn't. Check out http://ElieWiesel'sTatoo.il
plumjam Banned Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 7,819	Last edited by plumjam; 19th May 2010 at 02:32 PM.

19th May 2010, 02:46 PM	#6
ShadowSot Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2010 Location: Pensacola Posts: 1,216	Originally Posted by plumjam Seems he doesn't. Check out http://ElieWiesel'sTatoo.il Links not working for me, might be just my work computer though. ETA: Ah, right. Quote: And mr. Wiesel having or not having a tattoo means what exactly? He wrote one of the definitive first hand accounts of the Holocaust. The Holocaust is a hoax crowd would captialize him not having a tattoo as proof against it.
	Last edited by ShadowSot; 19th May 2010 at 02:48 PM.

19th May 2010, 02:41 PM	#5
Bell Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 21,050	Originally Posted by Saggy Wiesel claims to have A-7713 tatooed on his left arm, and yet no one has seen the tattoo. Now, at codoh.com there is an offer of a reward of $500.00 to anyone who can produce a photo of Wiesel's tattoo. There are photos of his left arm that appear to show that he has no tattoo. Does he have a tattoo or not? Seems like a good question to ask at his next speaking engagement. And mr. Wiesel having or not having a tattoo means what exactly?

19th May 2010, 02:56 PM	#7
Bell Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 21,050	Originally Posted by ShadowSot He wrote one of the definitive first hand accounts of the Holocaust. The Holocaust is a hoax crowd would captialize him not having a tattoo as proof against it. Then the Holohaux crowd should grow a brain. Oh, wait... Seriously, their whole hypothesis stands or falls with one guy having or not having a tattoo? Also, 500 Dollars for a picture of his tattoo? They could spent that money more wisely. How about a visit here, here or here to start with.

19th May 2010, 04:12 PM	#8
TSR Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,783	Originally Posted by Saggy Now, at codoh.com there is an offer of a reward of $500.00 to anyone who can produce a photo of Wiesel's tattoo. . And, given that this is CODOH, how can we be sure the money is actually available for this "reward?" I mean, this is after all the forum favoured by Greg Gerdes with his bogus and ever-changing "NAFCASH" challenge. Give us a heads up when the money can be confirmed to be in escrow with appropriate instructions for disbursement, and maybe it would be worth someone's time to acquire such a photo. Those instructions would need to cover the issue that such a photo would automatically be characterized as faked, and so detail how it would be authenticated, just so no one moves the goal posts... Then you can tell us all how the presence or absence of a tattoo would make a bit of difference to, for example, your dishonest claim to have pictures which "prove" that the gas chamber @ Dachau was a functional shower room? .
TSR Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,783

19th May 2010, 09:13 PM	#9
ShadowSot Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2010 Location: Pensacola Posts: 1,216	Originally Posted by Bell Then the Holohaux crowd should grow a brain. Oh, wait... Seriously, their whole hypothesis stands or falls with one guy having or not having a tattoo? Also, 500 Dollars for a picture of his tattoo? They could spent that money more wisely. How about a visit here, here or here to start with. Didn't say it made sense.

19th May 2010, 09:24 PM	#10
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 14,514	Originally Posted by Sledge Hands up anyone who cares. Anyone at all? ... Is that someone at the back? Oh, sorry, it's just Marduk doing his Statue of Liberty impression. Hey, over there is a guy who... no wait, it's just MaGZ Sieg Heiling again.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

20th May 2010, 12:11 AM	#11
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 29,645	Originally Posted by Saggy Wiesel claims to have A-7713 tatooed on his left arm, and yet no one has seen the tattoo. Now, at codoh.com there is an offer of a reward of $500.00 to anyone who can produce a photo of Wiesel's tattoo. There are photos of his left arm that appear to show that he has no tattoo. Does he have a tattoo or not? Seems like a good question to ask at his next speaking engagement. Did your father actually have a penis? No one has ever seen it. Not even your mother. So it is possible that you produced asexually or maybe simply created in a lab. Can you prove this is not true?
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

20th May 2010, 04:50 AM	#12
NWOisBunk Scholar Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 83	Originally Posted by angrysoba Did your father actually have a penis? No one has ever seen it. Not even your mother. So it is possible that you produced asexually or maybe simply created in a lab. Can you prove this is not true? I think you're onto something here. I also want to see his birth certificate. Unless I see that I don't accept that he was born in the country he claims he was born in or that he was actually born.
NWOisBunk Scholar Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 83

20th May 2010, 06:29 AM	#13
TSR Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,783	Originally Posted by angrysoba Did your father actually have a penis? . Actually not a bad question, since it has been demonstrated the Saggy hasn't the balls to admit zie was lying about being able to prove that the gas chamber @ Dachau was actually a functional shower room... .
TSR Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,783

20th May 2010, 07:00 AM	#14
Spindrift Time Person of the Year, 2006 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Right here! Posts: 19,246	After a little googlizing, it appears that some believe Elie Weisel stole the book Night from another victim named Lazar Weisel whose tattoo was A-7713. Also something about mixing in Christian theology into the book to save Jewish souls. Oh and Elie Weisel's not his real name. Even if all that was true, guess what? That means the book Night is still basically true! If the Nolocausters want to go this route to discredit Weisel, they are confirming the Holocaust in the process.
	__________________ I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black. Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon

20th May 2010, 07:12 AM	#15
headscratcher4 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 7,776	So, the truth of the holocaust depends on whether or not Wiesel has a tatoo...but Himmler's Posnan speech, recorded and attested to by men in attendence is an obvious fraud with this crowd. Hmmmm.
	__________________ Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. -- Homer Simpson

20th May 2010, 07:25 AM	#16
headscratcher4 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 7,776	Here's a bold statement: If it were proved that Weisel was 100% a liar and a fraud...the holocaust would still be a historical fact. What the denires want to believe is that individual witnesses somehow make the case for the holocaust, discredit a witness (which they've not done in Weisel's case, BTW) the house of cards as it were, falls. But the house of bricks that is the holocaust is built not on individual witnesses -- compelling, horrifying and edifying as individual witness stories are -- it is built on actions, laws, documents, photographs, film, etc. as well as individual witness statments. Indeed, like Himmler's Posnan speech, the best evidence is often that supplied by the perpetrators, not the victems. In short, Wiesel -- though a powerful witness voice -- is ultimately irrelevant to the reality of Hitler's final solution. It is Hitler, Goebles, Himmler, Hydrich, Eichman and all of the little Hoesse's of the world that are the proof of the holocaust. In short, to prove the holocaust didn't happen you would essentially have to prove that Hitler didn't exist and that Nazism didn't rule Germany from 1932 till 1945. Prove Hitler didn't exist, you will easilly prove the holocaust a hoax. Prove Weisel wasn't an inmate at Auschwitz, all you prove is that Weisel is a liar and wasn't at Auschwitz...it proves nothing more about the existence and function of Auschwitz.
	__________________ Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. -- Homer Simpson

20th May 2010, 07:31 AM	#17
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 29,645	Originally Posted by Spindrift After a little googlizing, it appears that some believe Elie Weisel stole the book Night from another victim named Lazar Weisel whose tattoo was A-7713. Also something about mixing in Christian theology into the book to save Jewish souls. Oh and Elie Weisel's not his real name. Even if all that was true, guess what? That means the book Night is still basically true! If the Nolocausters want to go this route to discredit Weisel, they are confirming the Holocaust in the process. I think that was the subject of a recent post here in which some "ingenious" attempt was made to have the Holocaust disputed by saying Elie Weisel made the claim that someone was "remote-viewing" in his book. I think now that the poster was attempting to provoke the "that couldn't have happened" response in which case he could say, "Ahhh! That disproves Elie Weisel's book and that means it disproves the Holocaust! Ha ha!" Of course the said poster didn't count on the possibility that Weisel was employing standard literary techniques to demonstrate the ominous nature of what lay ahead. So then the same poster pulled out another trick suggesting that Weisel had in fact plagiarised the work with the rather hopeful chain of reasoning that if Weisel was lying then maybe he was lying about the Holocaust and therefore the Holocaust didn't happen. These Holocaust deniers are a bunch of thick Jew-haters to whom rational thought is alien.
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893) Last edited by angrysoba; 20th May 2010 at 07:33 AM.

20th May 2010, 08:09 AM	#18
NWOisBunk Scholar Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 83	Originally Posted by angrysoba These Holocaust deniers are a bunch of thick Jew-haters to whom rational thought is alien. What I find pretty hilarious is that many holocaust deniers swear up and down they are not Jew haters yet so many of them are obsessed with what Jews are up to, Jewish misdeeds etc. When I look at the web page for the Institute for Historical Review... I'm greeted with stuff about how the Jews welcomed the Soviet Takeover of Poland in 1939 or how there are too many Jews on the Supreme Court.
NWOisBunk Scholar Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 83

20th May 2010, 10:34 AM	#19
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,657	Originally Posted by angrysoba I think that was the subject of a recent post here in which some "ingenious" attempt was made to have the Holocaust disputed by saying Elie Weisel made the claim that someone was "remote-viewing" in his book. I think now that the poster was attempting to provoke the "that couldn't have happened" response in which case he could say, "Ahhh! That disproves Elie Weisel's book and that means it disproves the Holocaust! Ha ha!" Of course the said poster didn't count on the possibility that Weisel was employing standard literary techniques to demonstrate the ominous nature of what lay ahead. So then the same poster pulled out another trick suggesting that Weisel had in fact plagiarised the work with the rather hopeful chain of reasoning that if Weisel was lying then maybe he was lying about the Holocaust and therefore the Holocaust didn't happen. These Holocaust deniers are a bunch of thick Jew-haters to whom rational thought is alien. I would say 90% of them are. The other Ten Percent are trolls who get a kick out of outraging people,A Few Libertarians(by no means all) who support it because it supports their contention that US involvment in WW2 was a mistake,as part of their isolationist viewpoint, and the usual gang of idiots who will support any idea that is "Daring" "Unconventional" "Edgy" and "Anti Establishment".

20th May 2010, 11:02 AM	#20
defaultdotxbe Drunken Shikigami Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 7,474	ok, so elie weisel wrote one of the definitive firsthand accounts of the holocaust, which, assuming the holocaust is a hoax, means he must be pretty comitted to the lie if thats the case, why didnt he just get the number tattooed on his arm himself? ive seen people with the tattoos with my own eyes so some people must be doing it its another case of are they geniuses or are they idiots?
	__________________ I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. -Albert Einstein

20th May 2010, 11:18 AM	#21
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Citrus Heights, CA Posts: 15,191	Perhaps the most insulting thing about this whole business is that while the Holocaust has been so thoroughly documented, it is still being denied by people who have the intelligence to know better. In some cases, tattoos fade. They never really go away completely, but given the behavior of the deniers, it wouldn't surprise me if someone were to photoshop out Weisel's tattoo, then claim he never had one. And while I'd love to see Weisel pull his sleeve up and poke the deniers in the eyes with that abominable mark, he's well within his rights to tell them to go to the Hell they richly deserve. Reading Weisel's book, Night, and the essays which have followed have left a painful mark for me. I read the book in one evening, then couldn't sleep for the next two. We deceive ourselves when we say "It can't happen here," because in ages past, it did. We just got better press for it, complete with John Wayne in Cavalry Blue popping off shots with a Winchester and a couple of Colts, saving the wagon train. (Factually, more settlers died from disease and accidental gunshots, and most of those who made it were actually helped more often than not by the very Indians who wound up being forced off their land and onto reservations.) The deniers aren't simply denying the Holocaust. They are denying their own humanity, their own rights as members of the human community. They aren't simply disgracing themselves, but the very societies they claim to support. Most Germans, to my mind, would rather own up and deal with this open wound and allow it to heal rather than perpetuate this monstrous lie.

20th May 2010, 11:50 AM	#22
headscratcher4 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 7,776	The thing is -- and I think Weisel would agree with this -- he has absolutely nothing to prove to the Saggys of the world. It is a little the Obama birth certificate, even if he showed Birthers the "original" it wouldn't satisfy them in any fashion, so why play the game. Indeed, the burden is entirely on Saggy and his ilk...and that burden isn't poking holes in the memory of old men who may or may not have got all details right...it is showing systematically that the vast paper trail of documents, trial testemony, archetechtual drawings, film footage and scholarly study is wrong and wrong in some critical game changing way. Just as the Irvings of the world comb through the detritus of Nazism and say: aha! There's no signed order by Hitler (btw, what documents do you think they were buring in the Chancellory and the bunker in that last month of the war? Hitler's DMV certificate? His marraige licence? His mortgage?), there for in spite of all of the recorded statements by Hitler that the Jews deserved distruction and that the war was a war of destruction they broght down on themselves, there was no holocaust. So here's the challenge to Saggy and his ilk. The holocaust exists and is completely proven until you can produce a paper from Hitler, from Himmler, from Goebles, from Bormann, from Gorieng, From Frick, from Hydrich, from Eichman saying: don't harm the jews. Don't put them in Ghettos. Don't restrict their access to the outside world. Don't round them up. Don't close their businesses. Don't move them East. Don't. There are no documents saying "don't". There are no official inquireries from Berlin demanding that the German Army not abuse Jews. There are no prohibitions for illegal arrest of entire populations. There are no orders demanding refugee jewish populations get more food. There are no orders requiring that German forces and German police treat jews and all non germans with respect and respect their basic human rights. There are no orders prohibiting medical experimentation on unwilling prisoners. There are no orders demanding that Jews be treated immediately for typhus (to put to rest the cannard that whatever deaths occured it was because of diseases in overcrowded conditions), and there are no orders to not create overcrowded and unsanitary conditions. So, in short there are no orders contraveneing the mistreatment of jews and other minorities. So Saggy, you prove the negative. No orders contravening any of these activities by your own flawless logic suggests to me that all of these activities occured...oh, yes, and besides, there are literally hundreds of tons of documents, testimony, pictures and films explicitly demonstrating that the activities for which there were not contrevening orders for, specifically and exactly occured.
	__________________ Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. -- Homer Simpson

22nd May 2010, 05:46 AM	#23
TSR Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,783	Originally Posted by TSR . And, given that this is CODOH, how can we be sure the money is actually available for this "reward?" I mean, this is after all the forum favoured by Greg Gerdes with his bogus and ever-changing "NAFCASH" challenge. Give us a heads up when the money can be confirmed to be in escrow with appropriate instructions for disbursement, and maybe it would be worth someone's time to acquire such a photo. Those instructions would need to cover the issue that such a photo would automatically be characterized as faked, and so detail how it would be authenticated, just so no one moves the goal posts... Then you can tell us all how the presence or absence of a tattoo would make a bit of difference to, for example, your dishonest claim to have pictures which "prove" that the gas chamber @ Dachau was a functional shower room? . . One notes that, despite making the post to begin with, Saggy is unable to document that this money actually exists. Just like zir inability to come up with those pics zie claimed proved the gas chamber @ Dachau was a functional shower room... .
TSR Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,783

22nd May 2010, 05:41 PM	#24
Saggy Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,804	Eric Hunt has found photos, and a video, showing that Wiesel does not have a tattoo on his left forearm, the usual place for Auschwitz tattoos. See them here... http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=6001 What does this mean? I don't know, but for sure Elie has some 'splaining to do. His book Night reads true to me except for the obvious phantasmagoria (the babies tossed into the air for machine gun practice, 'remember Madame Schacter, on the train', and the Jew who kills his father for a scrap of bread) so it will be interesting if it is a complete fraud.
Saggy Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,804

22nd May 2010, 06:15 PM	#25
The Platypus Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,883	only 500.00? A paparazzi gets more than that for a picture of a pimple on paris hilton.
	__________________ I'll go with the qualified experts, over some ranting guy on the internet that claims he has "the truth". Always beware of those that overuse, capitalize and blanket themselves in them word "truth". I may not always know the truth, but i do know when i'm being lied too.

22nd May 2010, 07:42 PM	#26
Bell Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 21,050	Originally Posted by Saggy Eric Hunt has found photos, and a video, showing that Wiesel does not have a tattoo on his left forearm, the usual place for Auschwitz tattoos. See them here... http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=6001 Really? Those grainy pictures are the best the Holocaust Deniers can do? You realize that tattoos fade over time, and also where not set in 2 inch high numbers? Quote: What does this mean? I don't know, but for sure Elie has some 'splaining to do. His book Night reads true to me except for the obvious phantasmagoria (the babies tossed into the air for machine gun practice, 'remember Madame Schacter, on the train', and the Jew who kills his father for a scrap of bread) so it will be interesting if it is a complete fraud. Are you calling Wiesel a liar? If so, I'm sure you can back up this claim? Originally Posted by The Platypus only 500.00? A paparazzi gets more than that for a picture of a pimple on paris hilton. I said before. Truth (TM) is cheap.

22nd May 2010, 08:04 PM	#27
Loss Leader I would save the receptionist. Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 27,723	I have to say, I certainly hope that Wiesel was lying. It would be a great relief to me to know that such evil had not occurred. And then, I'm sure, my great uncle, his wife, children and all their descendents would finally make contact with us from their "resettlement" camp in the east. We'll all eat and laugh and drink a toast to the silly people who ever believed that the events in Night actually happened to people in my family.
	__________________ I have the honor to be Your Obdt. S^t L. Leader

23rd May 2010, 05:05 AM	#28
Saggy Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,804	Originally Posted by Loss Leader I have to say, I certainly hope that Wiesel was lying. It would be a great relief to me to know that such evil had not occurred. And then, I'm sure, my great uncle, his wife, children and all their descendents would finally make contact with us from their "resettlement" camp in the east. We'll all eat and laugh and drink a toast to the silly people who ever believed that the events in Night actually happened to people in my family. Sorry, Norm Finklestein says no respect for crocodile tears.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNQSV3BBtZ4
Saggy Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,804	Last edited by Saggy; 23rd May 2010 at 05:19 AM.

23rd May 2010, 08:23 AM	#29
Bell Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 21,050	Originally Posted by Saggy Sorry, Norm Finklestein says no respect for crocodile tears.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNQSV3BBtZ4 Boy oh boy, did you miss the context on that one

23rd May 2010, 08:24 AM	#30
CORed Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Central City, Colorado, USA Posts: 10,146	Originally Posted by The Platypus only 500.00? A paparazzi gets more than that for a picture of a pimple on paris hilton. That was all the money from all the couches of all the holocaust deniers in the world.

23rd May 2010, 08:37 AM	#31
Spindrift Time Person of the Year, 2006 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Right here! Posts: 19,246	Originally Posted by Saggy ... so it will be interesting if it is a complete fraud. Exactly what would be interesting? Isn't it more interesting because it's true?
	__________________ I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black. Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon

23rd May 2010, 09:40 AM	#32
TSR Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,783	Originally Posted by Saggy Sorry, Norm Finklestein says no respect for crocodile tears.... , Does Norm agree with you that the Holocaust didn't happen? ,
TSR Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,783

24th May 2010, 07:25 PM	#33
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Citrus Heights, CA Posts: 15,191	Aside from the central fallacy that the absence of a tattoo on Weisel's arm somehow invalidates the totality of evidence regarding the Holocaust, the greater horror here is that anyone is even asking whether or not the Holocaust happened. Considering that the National Archives hold nearly all of the available Nazi records, or at least facsimiles of them, including the blueprints for the death camps, considering how over the years those same records have been used to try and convict war criminals from World War II, and considering there have been very few of those convictions overturned, it leaves me wondering what sort of monster questions that this happened. At no point was Adolf Eichmann's conviction challenged with factual evidence. The man himself was proud to declare that he killed Jews. His sole "defense" is that he was simply following orders, a defense that didn't do Lynndie England any more good than it did Eichmann. There are literally volumes of photographs of the dead, the instruments used to kill them, and reams of testimony of those who not only suffered at the hands of the Nazis, but testimony from the Nazis themselves, proud to have committed one of the most notorious examples of genocide in recorded history. We have artifacts from the time, including the structures built to kill the Jews, Gypsies, mentally ill, politically inconvenient, morally upstanding. We have the writings of Bonhoeffer, among others, who stood against the Nazis and paid for it with his life. We have the nightmarish record from William Shirer, who traced the whole disaster from Hitler's time in a WWI hospital, where he claimed he was a victim of a mustard gas poisoning, to the ignominious end as Germany collapsed in a charred, smoking ruin, divided into four sectors to be ruled until it could re-establish self-rule. We have the testimony of the survivors of the Death Camps, and from those who managed to live through the war, as well as their children. The Holocaust happened. I have met survivors of this horror. I have seen the marks on their arms, but more often than not, what I've seen of the elderly is a dark smudge where the numbers used to be. The ink fades; the nightmare never will. It is nothing short of barbaric that in this day and age, because some think it's convenient, or that this will imbue them with a degree of power, that there's some who will deny a historically documented event, an age when one of the most civilized nations on the Earth chose to cast aside its integrity, its honor, its moral courage, and that it did so as a betrayal of those who had served in its military, served in its government, and had enriched Germany's culture, history, and intellect. The Holocaust happened. Denying it does not change that. It was every bit as real an event as the Armenian Genocide, as the massacres across the American Great Plains. It was an evil act, and it should be remembered. And trying to smear Elie Weisel because his tattoo is not entirely visible, that the ink has faded, simply undercuts the claims of any and all who want us to believe this horror never happened. Damn you. Every single one of you deniers. Damn you all.

26th May 2010, 06:34 PM	#34
Saggy Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,804	Originally Posted by Roadtoad At no point was Adolf Eichmann's conviction challenged with factual evidence. The man himself was proud to declare that he killed Jews. This is typical Zionist drivel that has no connection with reality. From Eichmann's final statement at his hoax trial ... "If I had received the order to carry out these killings, I would not have escaped by using a trumped up pretext; during my interrogation I already stated: Since because of the compulsion exerted by an order there was no way out, I would have put a bullet through my brain in order to solve the conflict between conscience and duty." Eichmann actually thought he was going to be freed. He said everything the court wanted him to say.
Saggy Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,804

26th May 2010, 07:05 PM	#35
TSR Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,783	Originally Posted by Saggy From Eichmann's final statement at his hoax trial ... "If I had received the order to carry out these killings, I would not have escaped by using a trumped up pretext; during my interrogation I already stated: Since because of the compulsion exerted by an order there was no way out, I would have put a bullet through my brain in order to solve the conflict between conscience and duty." Eichmann actually thought he was going to be freed. He said everything the court wanted him to say. . That's right, Eichmann denied that he ever personally committed murder. But then, he also said: Quote: I understand the demand for atonement for the crimes which were perpetrated against the Jews. The witnesses' statements here in the Court made my limbs go numb once again, just as they went numb when once, acting on orders, I had to look at the atrocities. It was my misfortune to become entangled in these atrocities. But these misdeeds did not happen according to my wishes. It was not my wish to slay people. The guilt for the mass murder is solely that of the political leaders. What crimes and atrocities and misdeeds and mass murders do you think he was referring to, Saggy? Remember, he was already found guilty, and knew this, so had no further reason to say anything "the court wanted him to say?" Quote: Höss was the one who actually carried out the mass killings. Which mass killings, Saggy? Quote: ...I was considered to be the person who was responsible for everything. The reason for this lies in the fact that the National Socialists of the time and others have spread untruths about me. They wanted to exonerate themselves at my expense... Exonerate themselves from what, Saggy? Quote: I thank my Counsel, who has insisted on my rights. Which directly refutes your "hoax trial" lie, Saggy. Have you doung those pics which prove the Dachau gas chamber was actually a functional shower room, yet? .
TSR Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,783	Last edited by TSR; 26th May 2010 at 07:09 PM.