[Continuation] Man shot, killed by off-duty Dallas police officer who walked into wrong apartment p2 - Page 18

Distracted1 · 6th September 2019, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

I'm saying you wouldn't be making excuses if the outcome had been reversed even though every single bull **** excuse you've vomited out would apply just the same. If Guyver had been the one dead at the end of the altercation you wouldn't be obsessed with Jean's state of mind. You wouldn't been looking for a reason it was okay. Period.

We've had dozens of threads where your "Mistake of Fact" fetish would have manifested if it was honest. It didn't manifest until this one. There's a reason.

Write fan fiction about the criticism of your original fan fiction on your own time.

NM. Not worth it.

JoeMorgue · 6th September 2019, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by Distracted1

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=...YnWei3ABeKO0M:

Cute. And rather lacking in self awareness since "But the law says the black guy had to die, I'm not being racist I'm just arguing the law" has been your entire character arc in this thread.

Drewbot · 6th September 2019, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

I'm saying you wouldn't be making excuses if the outcome had been reversed even though every single bull **** excuse you've vomited out would apply just the same. If Guyver had been the one dead at the end of the altercation you wouldn't be obsessed with Jean's state of mind. You wouldn't been looking for a reason it was okay. Period.

Why do you keep bringing race into this?

You know that people in here who are trying to predict what will happen are not racists. But you throw this label in here like you are trying to sway our opinion, by making us think "Oh no JoeMorgue thinks we're racist so we better start thinking his way."

I won't fall for your tactic. However I will say that if Guyger was the one who was shot, this wouldn't even be going to court. It would be a classic castle doctrine defense and they wouldn't be charging Jean.

There are no other cases like this. Why can't you just talk about the possible outcomes without trying to paint us as racists?

Drewbot · 6th September 2019, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by Distracted1

NM. Not worth it.

Calls you racist, you back out, he wins.

JoeMorgue · 6th September 2019, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

Why do you keep bringing race into this?

Because when black people shoot white cops I haven't seen one person demand the conversation come to a screeching halt while we determine how tired they were and whether they mistook the white cop for a deer.

Drewbot · 6th September 2019, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Because when black people shoot white cops I haven't seen one person demand the conversation come to a screeching halt while we determine how tired they were and whether they mistook the white cop for a deer.

Example case plz?

JoeMorgue · 6th September 2019, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

Example case plz?

You want an example of someone NOT doing something?

Drewbot · 6th September 2019, 07:34 AM

The case you are referring to, where the racists didn't demand the conversation come to a complete stop when the black person shot a white cop.

JoeMorgue · 6th September 2019, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

The case you are referring to, where the racists didn't demand the conversation come to a complete stop when the black person shot a white cop.

Not playing this game. You know damn well at some point in the vast history of American legal cases "I was tired and made a mistake" came up before this one case and the "But whattabout MISTAKeS OF FACT!" fandom didn't make any noise about any of them.

You want to stall until I spoon feed you? Fine. Every no-knock warrant shooting of a police officer ever.

plague311 · 6th September 2019, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by wollery

I'm sorry, I've tried to ignore it, but I just can't any more.

It's Guyger.

Not Guyver.

Guyger.

Oh God, thank you so much. You guys GUYGER!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Distracted1

And forget about what it will be like when the victims' (possibly altered) state of mind is added as a likely qualifier.

I'll give you a pass on the blatant well poisoning, just because your argument needs all the help it can get; however, I would like to point out that you're making a completely bull **** excuse here. You're excusing Guyger's state of mind (possibly altered) because she's been awake so long, but you seem to be using Jean's against him. He's in his own house, and if he was doing any drugs at all, it would have been ******* weed, dood. Have you ever done weed? Do you know the effects of weed on the human mind? It is rarely, Rarely, RARELY, EVER violent, or able to provide quick reflexes. Your thinly veiled victim blaming is getting thinner every single second.

Originally Posted by Belz...

I don't. She had many opportunities to realise her mistake before coming in, including, and this is the killer one for me, a big red mat in front of the door.

Let us not forget that there was also a lit up sign right next to the door with the apartment number on it, and multiple reports that there are several notifications of what floor you're on during the lengthy walk to the apartment.

JoeMorgue · 6th September 2019, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

Oh God, thank you so much. You guys GUYGER!!!!!!

MISTAKE OF FACT! MISTAKE OF FACT! MISTAKE OF FACT! IF THINK HER NAME IS MACGYVER HER GODDAMN NAME LITERALLY BECOMES MACGYVER AS A STATE OF UNDENIABLE FACT!

plague311 · 6th September 2019, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

MISTAKE OF FACT! MISTAKE OF FACT! MISTAKE OF FACT! IF THINK HER NAME IS MACGYVER HER GODDAMN NAME LITERALLY BECOMES MACGYVER AS A STATE OF UNDENIABLE FACT!

Fine, Joe, FINE. You can shoot MacGuyver. Deal?

JoeMorgue · 6th September 2019, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

Fine, Joe, FINE. You can shoot MacGuyver. Deal?

Does he have prep time? Because if he does I probably can't.

plague311 · 6th September 2019, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Does he have prep time? Because if he does I probably can't.

Have you tried walking into his apartment while he's relaxed and shooting him then? Seems to work for others.

Belz... · 6th September 2019, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

Fine, Joe, FINE. You can shoot MacGuyver. Deal?

Shoot MacGyver? You've never watched the show, have you? This isn't going to end well for Joe.

Drewbot · 6th September 2019, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Not playing this game. You know damn well at some point in the vast history of American legal cases "I was tired and made a mistake" came up before this one case and the "But whattabout MISTAKeS OF FACT!" fandom didn't make any noise about any of them.

You want to stall until I spoon feed you? Fine. Every no-knock warrant shooting of a police officer ever.

I've literally never heard of a defense of I was tired and went in the wrong apartment before.

Now you are saying every black man who shot a cop executing a no-nock warrant, is comparable to someone entering the wrong apartment?

I don't know how to respond to your race-baiting.

Drewbot · 6th September 2019, 07:52 AM

NOTICE: If you are interested in how this trial will play out, and you think there are certain trial scenarios where the jury will not convict Amber Guyger. Then you are racist.

Joe Morgue has so ordained.

plague311 · 6th September 2019, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

I've literally never heard of a defense of I was tired and went in the wrong apartment before.

Now you are saying every black man who shot a cop executing a no-nock warrant, is comparable to someone entering the wrong apartment?

I don't know how to respond to your race-baiting.

Try logically readi....oooohhhh you almost got me.

If someone blasts into your place on a no-knock warrant (which I'd assume, without evidence, are used more on black people than white), and you shoot them thinking that they are an intruder. That person that shot the cop will go to prison or be put to death by the federal government. They don't get to use "mistake of fact". You're welcome.

Originally Posted by Belz...

Shoot MacGyver? You've never watched the show, have you? This isn't going to end well for Joe.

True, he could always shoot the next door neighbor and claim mistake of fact. It seems to be a catchall now days.

JoeMorgue · 6th September 2019, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

I've literally never heard of a defense of I was tired and went in the wrong apartment before.

Maybe because it's insane and stupid to even consider?

I get what you're doing now. You're going to demand I give you an example of this exact scenario, when my entire point is this entire scenario is so absurd that of course the law bloody never had a precedent for it.

Belz... · 6th September 2019, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

NOTICE: If you are interested in how this trial will play out, and you think there are certain trial scenarios where the jury will not convict Amber Guyger. Then you are racist.

Joe Morgue has so ordained.

You know the rest of us can read the thread too, right?

Joe's complaining about people making excuses for her when they otherwise wouldn't, presumably because she's a cop. The racist part comes from the assumption, perhaps unfounded, that such defense would not be heard if the shooter had been a black guy and the victim a white woman, for instance.

JoeMorgue · 6th September 2019, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

NOTICE: If you are interested in how this trial will play out, and you think there are certain trial scenarios where the jury will not convict Amber Guyger. Then you are racist.

Joe Morgue has so ordained.

You're gonna need a stronger argument then "BUT UR PLAYING DA RACE CARD!"

I like how I'm now a SJW White Knight again. I'm soon I'll be racist in another discussion any day now.

Drewbot · 6th September 2019, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

You're gonna need a stronger argument then "BUT UR PLAYING DA RACE CARD!"

You're going to need a stronger argument than ACTUALLY playing the race card, to get me to stop talking about the case.

plague311 · 6th September 2019, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

You're going to need a stronger argument than ACTUALLY playing the race card, to get me to stop talking about the case.

No one is trying to get you to stop talking about the case. Mocking your arguments is still welcoming more conversation.

JoeMorgue · 6th September 2019, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

You're going to need a stronger argument than ACTUALLY playing the race card, to get me to stop talking about the case.

Nobody can keep you from talking about the case.

This case. This one particular case. And only this one particular case.

You can't keep other people from NOTICING THAT.

Distracted1 · 6th September 2019, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Maybe because it's insane and stupid to even consider?

I get what you're doing now. You're going to demand I give you an example of this exact scenario, when my entire point is this entire scenario is so absurd that of course the law bloody never had a precedent for it.

Removed. Was a response to a different post.

JoeMorgue · 6th September 2019, 08:14 AM

Removed, what I was responding to was (honestly and I respect that) corrected.

Distracted1 · 6th September 2019, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

Oh God, thank you so much. You guys GUYGER!!!!!!

I'll give you a pass on the blatant well poisoning, just because your argument needs all the help it can get; however, I would like to point out that you're making a completely bull **** excuse here. You're excusing Guyger's state of mind (possibly altered) because she's been awake so long, but you seem to be using Jean's against him. He's in his own house, and if he was doing any drugs at all, it would have been ******* weed, dood. Have you ever done weed? Do you know the effects of weed on the human mind? It is rarely, Rarely, RARELY, EVER violent, or able to provide quick reflexes. Your thinly veiled victim blaming is getting thinner every single second.

Let us not forget that there was also a lit up sign right next to the door with the apartment number on it, and multiple reports that there are several notifications of what floor you're on during the lengthy walk to the apartment.

I have made nearly 100 posts in this thread. Perhaps you can point to a single one wherein I used an argument of "sleepiness" to Guygers defense.

As to "well poisoning", there was weed in the apartment. When high (if he was) it can take a little longer to react to someone shouting something like "police officer!" and to formulate and articulate a response- especially when it comes right out of the blue

Drewbot · 6th September 2019, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

No one is trying to get you to stop talking about the case. Mocking your arguments is still welcoming more conversation.

Well, I would direct you to this post by Joe Morgue:

Quote:

I'm saying you wouldn't be making excuses if the outcome had been reversed even though every single bull **** excuse you've vomited out would apply just the same. If Guyver had been the one dead at the end of the altercation you wouldn't be obsessed with Jean's state of mind. You wouldn't been looking for a reason it was okay. Period.

We've had dozens of threads where your "Mistake of Fact" fetish would have manifested if it was honest. It didn't manifest until this one. There's a reason.

Write fan fiction about the criticism of your original fan fiction on your own time.

The highlighted portion is directing The Racist Fan-Fiction writers, to talk about the case on their own time. Do you wish to retract?

JoeMorgue · 6th September 2019, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

Well, I would direct you to this post by Joe Morgue

Jesus Christ get over it. A little bit of snark is not a Royal Decree. You can put away the Guy Fawkes mask and the "I WILL NOT BE SILENCED!" attitude.

Distracted1 · 6th September 2019, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by Belz...

You know the rest of us can read the thread too, right?

Joe's complaining about people making excuses for her when they otherwise wouldn't, presumably because she's a cop. The racist part comes from the assumption, perhaps unfounded, that such defense would not be heard if the shooter had been a black guy and the victim a white woman, for instance.

She has made her own excuses. The discussion is the validity of them.

Belz... · 6th September 2019, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by Distracted1

She has made her own excuses. The discussion is the validity of them.

Are you seriously suggesting that no one arguing in favour of those excuses was doing anything but being devil's advocate?

Drewbot · 6th September 2019, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by Belz...

You know the rest of us can read the thread too, right?

Joe's complaining about people making excuses for her when they otherwise wouldn't, presumably because she's a cop. The racist part comes from the assumption, perhaps unfounded, that such defense would not be heard if the shooter had been a black guy and the victim a white woman, for instance.

I would maintain, that in a city like Dallas, where there has been much coverage of the racism in the city, that if the police officer was black, and the victim was a white woman, the prosecutor might have not even charged the officer.

Ideally, we would like to come to a place where both scenarios would have the same charges brought or not brought.

plague311 · 6th September 2019, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by Distracted1

I have made nearly 100 posts in this thread. Perhaps you can point to a single one wherein I used an argument of "sleepiness" to Guygers defense.

If you have never once in this thread defended the "mistake of fact", then I will absolutely apologize. I'll dig through the thread, since I've got some time today, just for S's and G's. The mistake of fact premise is based on her being tired, and having a long day at work of at least 16 hours.

Originally Posted by Distracted1

As to "well poisoning", there was weed in the apartment. When high (if he was) it can take a little longer to react to someone shouting something like "police officer!" and to formulate and articulate a response- especially when it comes right out of the blue

He shouldn't have ******* had to respond to any commands. She also never said, "Police Officer", and this also is counter to what you're claiming. He can't have been a threat if he were stoned off his ass, and had delayed movement as you implied.

Also, per this article, I don't think her defense is going to work all that well. It was actually the Grand Jury that upgraded the charges in this case, not the DA.

Quote:

Initially, then-Dallas County District Attorney Faith Johnson presented a manslaughter case to a grand jury. But jurors upgraded the charge to murder, which Johnson said indicated that they felt Guyger's actions were "knowing" or intentional.

I would bet that there is something we're missing.

plague311 · 6th September 2019, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

I would maintain, that in a city like Dallas, where there has been much coverage of the racism in the city, that if the police officer was black, and the victim was a white woman, the prosecutor might have not even charged the officer.

Ideally, we would like to come to a place where both scenarios would have the same charges brought or not brought.

I would maintain that this is completely nonsensical and there is absolutely no evidence at all to back it up. Then again, I use logic and reason. It's not everyone's forte.

Thermal · 6th September 2019, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

Try logically readi....oooohhhh you almost got me.

If someone blasts into your place on a no-knock warrant (which I'd assume, without evidence, are used more on black people than white), and you shoot them thinking that they are an intruder. That person that shot the cop will go to prison or be put to death by the federal government. They don't get to use "mistake of fact". You're welcome.

You got me curious, so I checked. Here's the first two cases that came up on my search:

https://theconservativetreehouse.com...ses-to-indict/

https://newsmaven.io/pinacnews/eye-o...Ui9Q0___1p4XA/

Both no-knocks in Texas. Both times occupant shot officers. Both walked away.

Yee hah.

Dr. Keith · 6th September 2019, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by Belz...

Are you seriously suggesting that no one arguing in favour of those excuses was doing anything but being devil's advocate?

I am unaware of any posters in this thread who want her to move to their complex. In fact, Thermal and I have both been clear that she should be locked up as a murderer, even if we are not confident that she will. I think some others have a similar position as it has been roundly derided by some as "having it both ways", rather than just being honest.

Is there anyone in this thread who thinks that she should walk free of any punishment, without any reference to the local laws, just as a matter of how the world would work if they were King?

Distracted1 · 6th September 2019, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

I would maintain that this is completely nonsensical and there is absolutely no evidence at all to back it up. Then again, I use logic and reason. It's not everyone's forte.

Weed in the apartment does not count as evidence?
Kudos on the logic and reason.

Belz... · 6th September 2019, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

I would maintain, that in a city like Dallas, where there has been much coverage of the racism in the city, that if the police officer was black, and the victim was a white woman, the prosecutor might have not even charged the officer.

Oh, no no. That the perp is a police officer has to be removed in the hypothetical.

Distracted1 · 6th September 2019, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

If you have never once in this thread defended the "mistake of fact", then I will absolutely apologize. I'll dig through the thread, since I've got some time today, just for S's and G's. The mistake of fact premise is based on her being tired, and having a long day at work of at least 16 hours.

He shouldn't have ******* had to respond to any commands. She also never said, "Police Officer", and this also is counter to what you're claiming. He can't have been a threat if he were stoned off his ass, and had delayed movement as you implied.

Also, per this article, I don't think her defense is going to work all that well. It was actually the Grand Jury that upgraded the charges in this case, not the DA.

I would bet that there is something we're missing.

The "mistake of fact" is based upon the reasonableness of the mistake.
Whilst being tired may be a factor- it is not a necessary one to make the argument.

Belz... · 6th September 2019, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith

Is there anyone in this thread who thinks that she should walk free of any punishment, without any reference to the local laws, just as a matter of how the world would work if they were King?

That isn't Joe's claim or point.

6th September 2019, 06:52 AM	#681
Distracted1 Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,268	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue I'm saying you wouldn't be making excuses if the outcome had been reversed even though every single bull **** excuse you've vomited out would apply just the same. If Guyver had been the one dead at the end of the altercation you wouldn't be obsessed with Jean's state of mind. You wouldn't been looking for a reason it was okay. Period. We've had dozens of threads where your "Mistake of Fact" fetish would have manifested if it was honest. It didn't manifest until this one. There's a reason. Write fan fiction about the criticism of your original fan fiction on your own time. NM. Not worth it.
	__________________ The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure. Last edited by Distracted1; 6th September 2019 at 06:53 AM.

6th September 2019, 06:53 AM	#682
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 21,143	Originally Posted by Distracted1 https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=...YnWei3ABeKO0M: Cute. And rather lacking in self awareness since "But the law says the black guy had to die, I'm not being racist I'm just arguing the law" has been your entire character arc in this thread.
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

6th September 2019, 06:58 AM	#683
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,223	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue I'm saying you wouldn't be making excuses if the outcome had been reversed even though every single bull **** excuse you've vomited out would apply just the same. If Guyver had been the one dead at the end of the altercation you wouldn't be obsessed with Jean's state of mind. You wouldn't been looking for a reason it was okay. Period. Why do you keep bringing race into this? You know that people in here who are trying to predict what will happen are not racists. But you throw this label in here like you are trying to sway our opinion, by making us think "Oh no JoeMorgue thinks we're racist so we better start thinking his way." I won't fall for your tactic. However I will say that if Guyger was the one who was shot, this wouldn't even be going to court. It would be a classic castle doctrine defense and they wouldn't be charging Jean. There are no other cases like this. Why can't you just talk about the possible outcomes without trying to paint us as racists?
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,223	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

6th September 2019, 06:59 AM	#684
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,223	Originally Posted by Distracted1 NM. Not worth it. Calls you racist, you back out, he wins.
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,223	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

6th September 2019, 07:03 AM	#685
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 21,143	Originally Posted by Drewbot Why do you keep bringing race into this? Because when black people shoot white cops I haven't seen one person demand the conversation come to a screeching halt while we determine how tired they were and whether they mistook the white cop for a deer.
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

6th September 2019, 07:16 AM	#686
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,223	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Because when black people shoot white cops I haven't seen one person demand the conversation come to a screeching halt while we determine how tired they were and whether they mistook the white cop for a deer. Example case plz?
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,223	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

6th September 2019, 07:25 AM	#687
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 21,143	Originally Posted by Drewbot Example case plz? You want an example of someone NOT doing something?
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

6th September 2019, 07:34 AM	#688
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,223	The case you are referring to, where the racists didn't demand the conversation come to a complete stop when the black person shot a white cop.
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,223	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

6th September 2019, 07:36 AM	#689
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 21,143	Originally Posted by Drewbot The case you are referring to, where the racists didn't demand the conversation come to a complete stop when the black person shot a white cop. Not playing this game. You know damn well at some point in the vast history of American legal cases "I was tired and made a mistake" came up before this one case and the "But whattabout MISTAKeS OF FACT!" fandom didn't make any noise about any of them. You want to stall until I spoon feed you? Fine. Every no-knock warrant shooting of a police officer ever.
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC Last edited by JoeMorgue; 6th September 2019 at 07:37 AM.

6th September 2019, 07:36 AM	#690
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 7,079	Originally Posted by wollery I'm sorry, I've tried to ignore it, but I just can't any more. It's Guyger. Not Guyver. Guyger. Oh God, thank you so much. You guys GUYGER!!!!!! Originally Posted by Distracted1 And forget about what it will be like when the victims' (possibly altered) state of mind is added as a likely qualifier. I'll give you a pass on the blatant well poisoning, just because your argument needs all the help it can get; however, I would like to point out that you're making a completely bull ** excuse here. You're excusing Guyger's state of mind (possibly altered) because she's been awake so long, but you seem to be using Jean's against him. He's in his own house, and if he was doing any drugs at all, it would have been *** weed, dood. Have you ever done weed? Do you know the effects of weed on the human mind? It is rarely, Rarely, RARELY, EVER violent, or able to provide quick reflexes. Your thinly veiled victim blaming is getting thinner every single second. Originally Posted by Belz...** I don't. She had many opportunities to realise her mistake before coming in, including, and this is the killer one for me, a big red mat in front of the door. Let us not forget that there was also a lit up sign right next to the door with the apartment number on it, and multiple reports that there are several notifications of what floor you're on during the lengthy walk to the apartment.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

6th September 2019, 07:38 AM	#691
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 21,143	Originally Posted by plague311 Oh God, thank you so much. You guys GUYGER!!!!!! MISTAKE OF FACT! MISTAKE OF FACT! MISTAKE OF FACT! IF THINK HER NAME IS MACGYVER HER GODDAMN NAME LITERALLY BECOMES MACGYVER AS A STATE OF UNDENIABLE FACT!
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

6th September 2019, 07:38 AM	#692
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 7,079	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue MISTAKE OF FACT! MISTAKE OF FACT! MISTAKE OF FACT! IF THINK HER NAME IS MACGYVER HER GODDAMN NAME LITERALLY BECOMES MACGYVER AS A STATE OF UNDENIABLE FACT! Fine, Joe, FINE. You can shoot MacGuyver. Deal?
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

6th September 2019, 07:40 AM	#693
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 21,143	Originally Posted by plague311 Fine, Joe, FINE. You can shoot MacGuyver. Deal? Does he have prep time? Because if he does I probably can't.
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

6th September 2019, 07:48 AM	#694
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 7,079	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Does he have prep time? Because if he does I probably can't. Have you tried walking into his apartment while he's relaxed and shooting him then? Seems to work for others.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

6th September 2019, 07:49 AM	#695
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details Posts: 87,040	Originally Posted by plague311 Fine, Joe, FINE. You can shoot MacGuyver. Deal? Shoot MacGyver? You've never watched the show, have you? This isn't going to end well for Joe.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

6th September 2019, 07:49 AM	#696
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,223	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Not playing this game. You know damn well at some point in the vast history of American legal cases "I was tired and made a mistake" came up before this one case and the "But whattabout MISTAKeS OF FACT!" fandom didn't make any noise about any of them. You want to stall until I spoon feed you? Fine. Every no-knock warrant shooting of a police officer ever. I've literally never heard of a defense of I was tired and went in the wrong apartment before. Now you are saying every black man who shot a cop executing a no-nock warrant, is comparable to someone entering the wrong apartment? I don't know how to respond to your race-baiting.
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,223	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

6th September 2019, 07:52 AM	#697
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,223	NOTICE: If you are interested in how this trial will play out, and you think there are certain trial scenarios where the jury will not convict Amber Guyger. Then you are racist. Joe Morgue has so ordained.
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,223	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

6th September 2019, 07:54 AM	#698
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 7,079	Originally Posted by Drewbot I've literally never heard of a defense of I was tired and went in the wrong apartment before. Now you are saying every black man who shot a cop executing a no-nock warrant, is comparable to someone entering the wrong apartment? I don't know how to respond to your race-baiting. Try logically readi....oooohhhh you almost got me. If someone blasts into your place on a no-knock warrant (which I'd assume, without evidence, are used more on black people than white), and you shoot them thinking that they are an intruder. That person that shot the cop will go to prison or be put to death by the federal government. They don't get to use "mistake of fact". You're welcome. Originally Posted by Belz... Shoot MacGyver? You've never watched the show, have you? This isn't going to end well for Joe. True, he could always shoot the next door neighbor and claim mistake of fact. It seems to be a catchall now days.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

6th September 2019, 07:55 AM	#699
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 21,143	Originally Posted by Drewbot I've literally never heard of a defense of I was tired and went in the wrong apartment before. Maybe because it's insane and stupid to even consider? I get what you're doing now. You're going to demand I give you an example of this exact scenario, when my entire point is this entire scenario is so absurd that of course the law bloody never had a precedent for it.
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

6th September 2019, 07:55 AM	#700
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details Posts: 87,040	Originally Posted by Drewbot NOTICE: If you are interested in how this trial will play out, and you think there are certain trial scenarios where the jury will not convict Amber Guyger. Then you are racist. Joe Morgue has so ordained. You know the rest of us can read the thread too, right? Joe's complaining about people making excuses for her when they otherwise wouldn't, presumably because she's a cop. The racist part comes from the assumption, perhaps unfounded, that such defense would not be heard if the shooter had been a black guy and the victim a white woman, for instance.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

6th September 2019, 07:56 AM	#701
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 21,143	Originally Posted by Drewbot NOTICE: If you are interested in how this trial will play out, and you think there are certain trial scenarios where the jury will not convict Amber Guyger. Then you are racist. Joe Morgue has so ordained. You're gonna need a stronger argument then "BUT UR PLAYING DA RACE CARD!" I like how I'm now a SJW White Knight again. I'm soon I'll be racist in another discussion any day now.
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

6th September 2019, 08:08 AM	#702
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,223	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue You're gonna need a stronger argument then "BUT UR PLAYING DA RACE CARD!" You're going to need a stronger argument than ACTUALLY playing the race card, to get me to stop talking about the case.
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,223	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

6th September 2019, 08:10 AM	#703
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 7,079	Originally Posted by Drewbot You're going to need a stronger argument than ACTUALLY playing the race card, to get me to stop talking about the case. No one is trying to get you to stop talking about the case. Mocking your arguments is still welcoming more conversation.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

6th September 2019, 08:12 AM	#704
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 21,143	Originally Posted by Drewbot You're going to need a stronger argument than ACTUALLY playing the race card, to get me to stop talking about the case. Nobody can keep you from talking about the case. This case. This one particular case. And only this one particular case. You can't keep other people from NOTICING THAT.
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

6th September 2019, 08:13 AM	#705
Distracted1 Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,268	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Maybe because it's insane and stupid to even consider? I get what you're doing now. You're going to demand I give you an example of this exact scenario, when my entire point is this entire scenario is so absurd that of course the law bloody never had a precedent for it. Removed. Was a response to a different post.
	__________________ The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure. Last edited by Distracted1; 6th September 2019 at 08:14 AM.

6th September 2019, 08:14 AM	#706
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 21,143	Removed, what I was responding to was (honestly and I respect that) corrected.
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC Last edited by JoeMorgue; 6th September 2019 at 08:15 AM.

6th September 2019, 08:15 AM	#707
Distracted1 Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,268	Originally Posted by plague311 Oh God, thank you so much. You guys GUYGER!!!!!! I'll give you a pass on the blatant well poisoning, just because your argument needs all the help it can get; however, I would like to point out that you're making a completely bull ** excuse here. You're excusing Guyger's state of mind (possibly altered) because she's been awake so long, but you seem to be using Jean's against him. He's in his own house, and if he was doing any drugs at all, it would have been ***** weed, dood. Have you ever done weed? Do you know the effects of weed on the human mind? It is rarely, Rarely, RARELY, EVER violent, or able to provide quick reflexes. Your thinly veiled victim blaming is getting thinner every single second. Let us not forget that there was also a lit up sign right next to the door with the apartment number on it, and multiple reports that there are several notifications of what floor you're on during the lengthy walk to the apartment. I have made nearly 100 posts in this thread. Perhaps you can point to a single one wherein I used an argument of "sleepiness" to Guygers defense. As to "well poisoning", there was weed in the apartment. When high (if he was) it can take a little longer to react to someone shouting something like "police officer!" and to formulate and articulate a response- especially when it comes right out of the blue
	__________________ The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.

6th September 2019, 08:15 AM	#708
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,223	Originally Posted by plague311 No one is trying to get you to stop talking about the case. Mocking your arguments is still welcoming more conversation. Well, I would direct you to this post by Joe Morgue: Quote: I'm saying you wouldn't be making excuses if the outcome had been reversed even though every single bull **** excuse you've vomited out would apply just the same. If Guyver had been the one dead at the end of the altercation you wouldn't be obsessed with Jean's state of mind. You wouldn't been looking for a reason it was okay. Period. We've had dozens of threads where your "Mistake of Fact" fetish would have manifested if it was honest. It didn't manifest until this one. There's a reason. Write fan fiction about the criticism of your original fan fiction on your own time. The highlighted portion is directing The Racist Fan-Fiction writers, to talk about the case on their own time. Do you wish to retract?
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,223	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

6th September 2019, 08:17 AM	#709
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 21,143	Originally Posted by Drewbot Well, I would direct you to this post by Joe Morgue Jesus Christ get over it. A little bit of snark is not a Royal Decree. You can put away the Guy Fawkes mask and the "I WILL NOT BE SILENCED!" attitude.
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

6th September 2019, 08:17 AM	#710
Distracted1 Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,268	Originally Posted by Belz... You know the rest of us can read the thread too, right? Joe's complaining about people making excuses for her when they otherwise wouldn't, presumably because she's a cop. The racist part comes from the assumption, perhaps unfounded, that such defense would not be heard if the shooter had been a black guy and the victim a white woman, for instance. She has made her own excuses. The discussion is the validity of them.
	__________________ The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.

6th September 2019, 08:22 AM	#711
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details Posts: 87,040	Originally Posted by Distracted1 She has made her own excuses. The discussion is the validity of them. Are you seriously suggesting that no one arguing in favour of those excuses was doing anything but being devil's advocate?
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

6th September 2019, 08:24 AM	#712
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,223	Originally Posted by Belz... You know the rest of us can read the thread too, right? Joe's complaining about people making excuses for her when they otherwise wouldn't, presumably because she's a cop. The racist part comes from the assumption, perhaps unfounded, that such defense would not be heard if the shooter had been a black guy and the victim a white woman, for instance. I would maintain, that in a city like Dallas, where there has been much coverage of the racism in the city, that if the police officer was black, and the victim was a white woman, the prosecutor might have not even charged the officer. Ideally, we would like to come to a place where both scenarios would have the same charges brought or not brought.
Drewbot Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,223	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

6th September 2019, 08:25 AM	#713
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 7,079	Originally Posted by Distracted1 I have made nearly 100 posts in this thread. Perhaps you can point to a single one wherein I used an argument of "sleepiness" to Guygers defense. If you have never once in this thread defended the "mistake of fact", then I will absolutely apologize. I'll dig through the thread, since I've got some time today, just for S's and G's. The mistake of fact premise is based on her being tired, and having a long day at work of at least 16 hours. Originally Posted by Distracted1 As to "well poisoning", there was weed in the apartment. When high (if he was) it can take a little longer to react to someone shouting something like "police officer!" and to formulate and articulate a response- especially when it comes right out of the blue He shouldn't have ******* had to respond to any commands. She also never said, "Police Officer", and this also is counter to what you're claiming. He can't have been a threat if he were stoned off his ass, and had delayed movement as you implied. Also, per this article, I don't think her defense is going to work all that well. It was actually the Grand Jury that upgraded the charges in this case, not the DA. Quote: Initially, then-Dallas County District Attorney Faith Johnson presented a manslaughter case to a grand jury. But jurors upgraded the charge to murder, which Johnson said indicated that they felt Guyger's actions were "knowing" or intentional. I would bet that there is something we're missing.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

6th September 2019, 08:26 AM	#714
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 7,079	Originally Posted by Drewbot I would maintain, that in a city like Dallas, where there has been much coverage of the racism in the city, that if the police officer was black, and the victim was a white woman, the prosecutor might have not even charged the officer. Ideally, we would like to come to a place where both scenarios would have the same charges brought or not brought. I would maintain that this is completely nonsensical and there is absolutely no evidence at all to back it up. Then again, I use logic and reason. It's not everyone's forte.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

6th September 2019, 08:41 AM	#715
Thermal Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 8,867	Originally Posted by plague311 Try logically readi....oooohhhh you almost got me. If someone blasts into your place on a no-knock warrant (which I'd assume, without evidence, are used more on black people than white), and you shoot them thinking that they are an intruder. That person that shot the cop will go to prison or be put to death by the federal government. They don't get to use "mistake of fact". You're welcome. You got me curious, so I checked. Here's the first two cases that came up on my search: https://theconservativetreehouse.com...ses-to-indict/ https://newsmaven.io/pinacnews/eye-o...Ui9Q0___1p4XA/ Both no-knocks in Texas. Both times occupant shot officers. Both walked away. Yee hah.
Thermal Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 8,867