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Tags cold reading , mediums , psychics

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Old 4th October 2019, 03:28 PM   #481
xterra
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Ahh I see, I just can't fathom why these people want to lie purely for money!!

For the same reason that my house was broken into this summer and thousands of dollars worth of my possessions stolen.


[sarcasm] Clearly it wasn't because of the money they could get for selling stuff, was it? [/sarcasm]
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Old 4th October 2019, 03:43 PM   #482
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<wrong place to paste>
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Old 4th October 2019, 10:47 PM   #483
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Thank you :-)
This is why I have a fear of God existing because she claimed that God created me as academically unintelligent, after the reading I felt awful, felt like id become my own worst enemy. Stopped reading and started to believe I was thick and couldn't learn new things because God created me as academically inept.

Suppose there were a god, and suppose there were psychics and mediums, its also possible that person was;

* getting her signals crossed.

* in bad mood.

* having a bad day

* a fake.

* a jerk.

* a fake and a jerk.


Do keep on reading. More, even, for good measure
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Old 5th October 2019, 08:05 AM   #484
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Amy, the more you detail the experience something becomes clear.

Cold reading, hot reading. You tipped the charlatan you felt thick and she detailed in the rest. They always add god because it's giving them a more direct connection or deeper understanding of god than you have.

And most people that use her services believe in a god. It's fishing in a barrel.

As for being thick anything beyond basic math I find difficult. Almost impossible. But others can't do other things I can do easily. It's just being wired differently.
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Old 5th October 2019, 12:00 PM   #485
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Thanks guys, how do these mediums convince themselves they are not lying. Do they really believe themselves that they can speak to a dead person?
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Old 5th October 2019, 12:03 PM   #486
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Budda do you really suppose mediums could be real?

Good point Xterra :-)
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Old 5th October 2019, 12:27 PM   #487
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Yes she did know how I felt about my self beforehand (lacking in confidence) here is her page, what do you think? https://www.sarinabaptista.com
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Old 5th October 2019, 12:34 PM   #488
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Thanks guys, how do these mediums convince themselves they are not lying. Do they really believe themselves that they can speak to a dead person?
I think that some do sincerely believe they hear voices. It seems to be a very easy delusion to acquire.

I've done writing professionally. Technical writing, press releases, historical documents, briefings and speeches. Many of the speeches were for others to deliver. To do that successfully I would try to imagine what the speaker would say, and how they would sound, when in conversation. I'd have that imaginary conversation in my head, then type that out. With practice I could hear the persons voice, and carry on a two conversation. However, I knew it was all in my head.

I think some people start with the question: "What would he say if he were here?" and go from there to thinking that the voice in their head comes from outside.
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Old 5th October 2019, 12:39 PM   #489
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Yes she did know how I felt about my self beforehand (lacking in confidence) here is her page, what do you think? https://www.sarinabaptista.com


That’s a whole lot crazy.

But her page answers your earlier question: How do they lie to themselves? In her case, grief.
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Old 5th October 2019, 01:11 PM   #490
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Thanks guys, how do these mediums convince themselves they are not lying. Do they really believe themselves that they can speak to a dead person?
Some people are very empathic, they pick up on body language etc, and can consequently cold read without even realising they're doing it. Add the Forer Effect - remember that 90% of people given any personalised reading, believing it to be their personalised reading, will rate it as accurate - and you'll see how someone can convince themselves they have a paranormal ability. Do it enough and they might even start to "hear" the information they're cold reading in their head, as Pope130 says. Hearing voices is surprisingly common, and isn't always regarded as a symptom of mental illness.

https://www.hearing-voices.org/
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Old 5th October 2019, 02:39 PM   #491
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Thanks guys, how do these mediums convince themselves they are not lying. Do they really believe themselves that they can speak to a dead person?
I have told my story of messages I have received through mediums many times on this forum already, but atheists cannot even consider a medium might be genuine, because it would shatter their world.

As far as I am concerned some mediums can talk to the spirits of the departed.
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Old 5th October 2019, 02:58 PM   #492
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I have told my story of messages I have received through mediums many times on this forum already, but atheists cannot even consider a medium might be genuine, because it would shatter their world.
No. The skeptics have given you their reasons for not believing in "genuine" mediums -- that there is no evidence for any, and the "genuine" mediums seem reluctant to cooperate in controlled tests. That is the stated reason of the "atheists." Why do you insist on making up new reasons that paint your critics as brittle and closed-minded? How many of your threads here, would you say, have as their motive simply to insult people who disagree with you?

Last edited by JayUtah; 5th October 2019 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 5th October 2019, 02:58 PM   #493
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That's crazy, Scorpion it's a delusional world they live in. Can you explain why there are mediums who basically go on to admit it was all fake and they weren't real? Mediums are nothing more than either frauds or deluded, I am just trying to 're educate myself, hence why I am on a skeptic forum and not a spiritual one, which I think would suit you more :-)
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Old 5th October 2019, 03:16 PM   #494
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
That's crazy, Scorpion it's a delusional world they live in. Can you explain why there are mediums who basically go on to admit it was all fake and they weren't real? Mediums are nothing more than either frauds or deluded, I am just trying to 're educate myself, hence why I am on a skeptic forum and not a spiritual one, which I think would suit you more :-)
I have had many personal very evidential messages through different mediums in different churches from the 1960s onwards. The sum of my experience is some mediums are genuine, and they told me facts about myself and my family.

The most evidential message I had was from a brother who I did not even know I had, who died as a baby in the war. When a medium gave me a message from him, and gave me his name, it was the first I had ever heard of him. My mother had never spoken of it, and my mother had never been to the church.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 5th October 2019, 03:21 PM   #495
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
No. The skeptics have given you their reasons for not believing in "genuine" mediums -- that there is no evidence for any, and the "genuine" mediums seem reluctant to cooperate in controlled tests. That is the stated reason of the "atheists." Why do you insist on making up new reasons that paint your critics as brittle and closed-minded? How many of your threads here, would you say, have as their motive simply to insult people who disagree with you?
I suppose most of my threads are a thinly veiled assault on the bastions of atheism. Well I take my fair share of put downs on this forum, so since its only one of me against all of you I figure I am doing ok.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 5th October 2019, 03:22 PM   #496
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I have had many personal...
Yes, you tell all your stories over and over again at the drop of a hat, knowing full well that we've all head them all many times, and knowing full well that retelling them one more time will not magically transform them into evidence.
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Old 5th October 2019, 03:28 PM   #497
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I suppose most of my threads are a thinly veiled assault on the bastions of atheism. Well I take my fair share of put downs on this forum, so since its only one of me against all of you I figure I am doing ok.
Would it be fair then to say that your participation here is an exercise in pretending you're being so very cruelly persecuted for all the troubles you can't help but whine about constantly? Remember when I asked whether you knew about the victimization complex among some religious people, and you decided to pretend I'd never brought it up?

I dare you to participate in at least one thread here that doesn't result in you running through all your anecdotes for the umpteenth time and begging for sympathy and unwarranted credence. See if it's possible for you to "assault... the bastions of atheism" with facts and reason instead of saying "Me! Me! Me!" all the time.
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Old 5th October 2019, 03:34 PM   #498
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Would it be fair then to say that your participation here is an exercise in pretending you're being so very cruelly persecuted for all the troubles you can't help but whine about constantly? Remember when I asked whether you knew about the victimization complex among some religious people, and you decided to pretend I'd never brought it up?

I dare you to participate in at least one thread here that doesn't result in you running through all your anecdotes for the umpteenth time and begging for sympathy and unwarranted credence. See if it's possible for you to "assault... the bastions of atheism" with facts and reason instead of saying "Me! Me! Me!" all the time.
There you go, putting me down again while recently accusing me of insulting
you all. Well I am working on another thread about whether science is discovering mysticism through quantum physics. I am currently reading.
'the Tao of physics' by Fritjof Capra as background info.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 5th October 2019, 03:43 PM   #499
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Can you explain why there are mediums who basically go on to admit it was all fake and they weren't real?
Or worse, mediums who swear up and down that they can talk to spirits, and then get caught blatantly faking it. They manage to convince a bunch of people with seemingly astounding feats. Does that mean they were genuine mediums right up to the point where they got caught?

Quote:
...not a spiritual one, which I think would suit you more :-)
Some people feel validated by the notion that others are persecuting them, often for what seem like ideological reasons. They feel they're somehow on the right track, or privy to the "absolute truth," if someone is actively opposing them.
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Old 5th October 2019, 03:43 PM   #500
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
There you go, putting me down again while recently accusing me of insulting
you all. Well I am working on another thread about whether science is discovering mysticism through quantum physics. I am currently reading.
'the Tao of physics' by Fritjof Capra as background info.
My spirit guide is telling me something. He says your theory will be pathetically lacking in any merit whatsoever. Does that mean anything to you?
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Old 5th October 2019, 03:45 PM   #501
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
There you go, putting me down again...
"Oh, poor, poor me!" Get over yourself.

Quote:
Well I am working on another thread about whether science is discovering mysticism through quantum physics. I am currently reading.
'the Tao of physics' by Fritjof Capra as background info.
I didn't ask for your biography. I asked if you came here knowing that you'd be persecuted for your beliefs, and seeking exactly that. Just answer my question and quit whining.
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Old 5th October 2019, 03:47 PM   #502
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
"Oh, poor, poor me!" Get over yourself.



I didn't ask for your biography. I asked if you came here knowing that you'd be persecuted for your beliefs, and seeking exactly that. Just answer my question and quit whining.
You seem to be putting me down again. Well you might as well go and piss on a duck for all the effect it has on me.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 5th October 2019, 03:50 PM   #503
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I am working on another thread about whether science is discovering mysticism through quantum physics.
A subject that's already been done to death. Jabba was the last person to hurl that particular bit of woo.

Indulge me. Start your thread when you're ready. But stipulate ahead of time that if you tell any of your standard anecdotes in the thread, you agree to have the moderators suspend you for a period they see fit to impose. That is, agree ahead of time that all your self-centered anecdotes are explicitly off-topic and constitute a willful derailment of the thread if raised. Will you stipulate?
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Old 5th October 2019, 03:50 PM   #504
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
My spirit guide is telling me something. He says your theory will be pathetically lacking in any merit whatsoever. Does that mean anything to you?
I just saw your post on the next thread telling me there are no spirits and no mediums and no psychics. So you are obviously talking bull.
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You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 5th October 2019, 03:52 PM   #505
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
A subject that's already been done to death. Jabba was the last person to hurl that particular bit of woo.

Indulge me. Start your thread when you're ready. But stipulate ahead of time that if you tell any of your standard anecdotes in the thread, you agree to have the moderators suspend you for a period they see fit to impose. That is, agree ahead of time that all your self-centered anecdotes are explicitly off-topic and constitute a willful derailment of the thread if raised. Will you stipulate?
No, I will do as I always have. In any case the administrator took one of my threads off topic himself yesterday.
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You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
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Old 5th October 2019, 03:53 PM   #506
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
There you go, putting me down again while recently accusing me of insulting
you all. Well I am working on another thread about whether science is discovering mysticism through quantum physics. I am currently reading.
'the Tao of physics' by Fritjof Capra as background info.
That is a manifestation of your illness. Get it into your head. Pointing out that you are flat wrong is in no way persecuting you. It is simply pointing out that you are wrong.

Or are you claiming that it is impossible that you are wrong? Because that would be quite an extraordinary claim.
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Old 5th October 2019, 03:54 PM   #507
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
You seem to be putting me down again.
Or maybe that's what you frantically want everyone to think.

Quote:
Well you might as well go and piss on a duck for all the effect it has on me.
It seems to be having the effect of you desperately trying to play the victim. You opened the door in this thread to the question of your motive for participating. You say you try to "attack the bastions of atheism." You say you veil that thinly, which admits to at least some degree of intentional deception. I'm just trying to discover how deep the deception goes.

It's a simple question. Are you here to bait the criticism your anecdotes invariably engender, which you then style as persecution to make you feel better? Are you here to paint atheists as unfair persecutors of personal beliefs?
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Old 5th October 2019, 03:55 PM   #508
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
No, I will do as I always have. In any case the administrator took one of my threads off topic himself yesterday.
So can we expect the thread to be just more "thinly veiled' narcissism?

I asked whether you could participate in a thread without your typical self-focus. You cited a draft thread that ostensibly has another purpose, supposedly as an example of a thread in which you wouldn't simply focus on yourself again. I asked if you would be willing to put your money where your mouth is on that point. You said no. So it seems you aren't willing to participate non-narcissistically. Is that a fair analysis of your position?

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Old 5th October 2019, 04:03 PM   #509
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Or maybe that's what you frantically want everyone to think.



It seems to be having the effect of you desperately trying to play the victim. You opened the door in this thread to the question of your motive for participating. You say you try to "attack the bastions of atheism." You say you veil that thinly, which admits to at least some degree of intentional deception. I'm just trying to discover how deep the deception goes.

It's a simple question. Are you here to bait the criticism your anecdotes invariably engender, which you then style as persecution to make you feel better? Are you here to paint atheists as unfair persecutors of personal beliefs?
I am not really victim material, as I have already been to hell and back and survived. I cannot deny, I think of atheists as blockheads. But I accept fair criticism and strive to learn from it.
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You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
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Old 5th October 2019, 04:05 PM   #510
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
So can we expect the thread to be just more "thinly veiled' narcissism?

I asked whether you could participate in a thread without your typical self-focus. You cited a draft thread that ostensibly has another purpose, supposedly as an example of a thread in which you wouldn't simply focus on yourself again. I asked if you would be willing to put your money where your mouth is on that point. You said no. So it seems you aren't willing to participate non-narcissistically. Is that a fair analysis of your position?
'You' are currently making this thread about me.
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You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
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Old 5th October 2019, 04:07 PM   #511
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I am not really victim material, as I have already been to hell and back and survived.
And can't stop talking about it, even when no one asked.

Quote:
I cannot deny, I think of atheists as blockheads.
With whom you choose to converse on almost a daily basis. What part does endless repetition of your claims and personal anecdotes play in that particular drama?

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But I accept fair criticism and strive to learn from it.
Give an example of fair criticism the atheists here have given you, and what you learned from it.
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Old 5th October 2019, 04:12 PM   #512
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post

With whom you choose to converse on almost a daily basis. What part does endless repetition of your claims and personal anecdotes play in that particular drama?
Give an example of fair criticism the atheists here have given you, and what you learned from it.
The only thing I have is my own experience and that is anecdotal..

Among lots of other things I have taken on board, I was told Descartes did not coin the term 'Ghost in the machine' it was a critic of his.
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Old 5th October 2019, 04:14 PM   #513
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
'You' are currently making this thread about me.
No. You responded to AmyW's question by assuring her that the "atheists" in this thread would never change their minds because they are too closed-minded, which of course is not the reason they themselves give. You opened the door to questions about why you hate atheists so much, yet choose to spend so much time and effort talking to them. I'm responding to your direct and ongoing attack -- completely unwarranted -- against "atheists" in this thread. You're going to egregious lengths to pretend you're being persecuted, simply because an "atheist" is holding you to account for your brazen accusations.

In addition, AmyW asked you to reconcile your attack on "atheists" with the evidence that skeptics cite for their disbelief. You responded, as usual, with your customary stories.
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Old 5th October 2019, 04:17 PM   #514
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
The only thing I have is my own experience and that is anecdotal..
But somehow atheists are "blockheads" for not taking it at face value the way you do, and are too closed-minded to accept any eventual evidence.

Since you admit that all you have is anecdotal evidence, it would be prudent for you to apologize for accusing skeptics of being irrational "blockheads."
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Old 5th October 2019, 04:20 PM   #515
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
But somehow atheists are "blockheads" for not taking it at face value the way you do, and are too closed-minded to accept any eventual evidence.

Since you admit that all you have is anecdotal evidence, it would be prudent for you to apologize for accusing skeptics of being irrational "blockheads."
I did not say atheists were irrational.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 5th October 2019, 04:28 PM   #516
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I did not say atheists were irrational.
Picking nits instead of answering the hard questions. See why so many people have questions about your motives?

You accuse us of rejecting evidence of "genuine" mediums because it would "shatter our world." Please elaborate on how that is not an accusation of a conclusion drawn outside of reason.
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Old 5th October 2019, 04:45 PM   #517
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Picking nits instead of answering the hard questions. See why so many people have questions about your motives?

You accuse us of rejecting evidence of "genuine" mediums because it would "shatter our world." Please elaborate on how that is not an accusation of a conclusion drawn outside of reason.
I think an atheist has a view of the world stuck in the most mundane view and interpretation of scientific findings. Atheists keep calling the world and their experience of it as 'reality' I do not think they have any idea what 'reality' is. The theme of my next thread.
I do think some atheists may be scared of facing the possibility of psychic people with knowledge they know nothing about. Because they would not know the rules. They would be lost in the unknown. Their world view would be shattered.
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You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 5th October 2019, 05:10 PM   #518
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
That is a manifestation of your illness.
It may or may not be. Parsimoniously, in this case, we don't need to invoke clinical paranoia because people will feign indignation for ordinary rhetorical effect. Any opposition to their point of view, or any bluntness on the part of the critic, is interpreted as some form of persecution. The proponent suddenly develops an onion-thin skin. Scorpion can't answer any of my questions, or bring to bear any verifiable facts to support his claims -- or for that matter, treat AmyW's question with anything but narcissism -- so he has to resort to vilifying his critics and then claiming himself to be the undeserving victim of our villainy.

It's not like it's any great secret anymore that his goal is to hurl mud at skeptics at any cost, but it would be nice if he owned it. For some reason, deception (or self-deception, if you prefer) is acceptable as long as the goal is to thwart atheism.

Quote:
Or are you claiming that it is impossible that you are wrong? Because that would be quite an extraordinary claim.
Extraordinary, but not to unexpected. Look at the "thought police" thread to see an example of how far someone will go to save face.
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Old 5th October 2019, 05:33 PM   #519
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Bertrand Russell, arguably one of the best minds of the 20th century, was an agnostic not an atheist. Because he knew there was not enough information to know if there is a God or not.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
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Old 5th October 2019, 05:38 PM   #520
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Thanks guys, how do these mediums convince themselves they are not lying. Do they really believe themselves that they can speak to a dead person?
The same way the rest of us get through the gut wrenching hell of talking to someone who is bereaved and tell ourselves we're not lying. Think about it, when you tell someone, "everything happens for a reason" or "it's all in God's plan" do you really believe it? If someone dies and you say they are in a better place or now they are at rest, how do you know? Why do you think that? Mediums just take what most of us do to a different level.
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