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18th June 2019, 09:00 AM | #1 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
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#NoLibra/Libra Cryptocurrency:
So Facebook of all places has announced a new cryptocurrency, backed by real world currencies (including the US Dollar, Euro, and Yen) and already has support/backing from Paypal, Mastercard, Visa, Uber, and Vodafone.
https://libra.org/en-US/ |
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18th June 2019, 09:01 AM | #2 |
Fiend God
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Which raises an interesting question: if I can pay with my credit card, why would I need an actual currency other than my own?
The whole concept is bizarre. |
18th June 2019, 10:56 AM | #3 |
Girl
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Because nobody would trust it would be worth the same amount of stuff when you settled it (IE nobody would lend you "your own" currency)
Libra looks like a de-regulated currency board arrangement, but backed by a reserve basket of regular currencies not just one. |
18th June 2019, 12:14 PM | #4 |
Banned
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Posts: 20,145
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#NoLibra
Facebooks new crypto-currency Libra is being released soon. Just say no.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/931966...ryptocurrency/ |
18th June 2019, 12:37 PM | #5 |
Maledictorian
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I say yes.
not that I will use it, but its good that companies with a bit of wealth behind them get into the game. |
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18th June 2019, 12:44 PM | #6 |
Illuminator
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What game though ? What is the purpose ?
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18th June 2019, 01:12 PM | #7 |
Graduate Poster
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more vapor for scammers to exploit
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18th June 2019, 01:20 PM | #8 |
"más divertido"
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There's a thread started in Economics if anyone is interested.
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18th June 2019, 01:33 PM | #9 |
Illuminator
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Sounds more like pay-pal rather than BTC.
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18th June 2019, 01:45 PM | #10 |
The Grammar Tyrant
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18th June 2019, 02:06 PM | #11 |
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The intention is for Facebook to take a "negible" fee for each transaction. And given where they say they are aiming it at I would go to the next level of cynicism and say it's because they can't make much money selling adverts that target the 1.5 billion "unbanked" or by selling those peoples' data. Therefore they wanted some other way to extract money from such people.
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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18th June 2019, 02:16 PM | #12 |
Poisoned Waffles
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How is creating a currency not illegal? I would have thought that's a thing that nations would reserve to themselves, and come down hard on anybody usurping that power.
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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18th June 2019, 03:02 PM | #13 |
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18th June 2019, 03:03 PM | #14 |
Penultimate Amazing
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How does Googles gross compare to the national gross product of countries?
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18th June 2019, 04:17 PM | #15 |
Penultimate Amazing
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It might be illegal in some countries, but in the USA, it's not. Why would it be? You have to pay your taxes in US dollars, but otherwise the government doesn't really care. And historically, private currencies can't compete with the US dollar, so they usually fail without the government having to lift a finger.
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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18th June 2019, 04:44 PM | #16 |
Illuminator
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18th June 2019, 04:51 PM | #17 |
Illuminator
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18th June 2019, 04:53 PM | #18 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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18th June 2019, 07:30 PM | #19 |
Observer of Phenomena
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So take that quantum equation and recalculate the wave by a factor of hoopty doo! The answer is not my problem, it's yours. Three Word Story Wisdom |
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18th June 2019, 07:41 PM | #20 |
Penultimate Amazing
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It's not really a reserved power, so it can't really be usurped. Governments reserve the power to issue *their own* currency, but that's different.
Governments don't need to stop the creation of private currencies; why would they? And in fact they don't. When you issue shares in a business, you're creating a fiat commodity based on consumer confidence in the growth value your (the issuer's) endeavor. Hell, trading cards are a currency. Same with cryptocurrencies. They're just fiat commodities tied to some public perception of underlying value. Just like the dollar. |
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There is no Antimemetics Division. |
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18th June 2019, 07:50 PM | #21 |
Observer of Phenomena
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Right, but Nakatomo specifically called out the need for trust in a third party in the White Paper.
Quote:
Regardless, the fact is not in dispute that the power to create a currency is not reserved for government. Heck, my LARP group did it. Of course, that currency is not usable outside a very limited set of circumstances, but it was still a system of tokens that could be exchanged for goods and services. |
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So take that quantum equation and recalculate the wave by a factor of hoopty doo! The answer is not my problem, it's yours. Three Word Story Wisdom |
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18th June 2019, 10:13 PM | #22 |
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19th June 2019, 12:40 AM | #23 |
Maledictorian
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“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
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19th June 2019, 12:45 AM | #24 |
Maledictorian
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actually, having a FB centered currency makes consumers safer because they won't have to use credit card /banking information.
It is a potential money laundering risk. The core purpose of any currency is to make it easier to spend: FB obviously wants to sell stuff, and if you don't have to spend "real" money but "only" Libra, your threshold for buying useless stuff might be lower. |
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“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
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19th June 2019, 12:57 AM | #25 |
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Several of the people behind this have spoke about how it will bring the 1.5 billion "unbanked " into the global economy. This is what I posted in the other thread:
The intention is for Facebook to take a "negible" fee for each transaction. And given where they say they are aiming it at I would go to the next level of cynicism and say it's because they can't make much money selling adverts that target the 1.5 billion "unbanked" or by selling those peoples' data. Therefore they wanted some other way to extract money from such people. |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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19th June 2019, 01:01 AM | #26 |
Maledictorian
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The data telling FB when and when not people are willing to spend money is valuable on its own.
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“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
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19th June 2019, 01:17 AM | #27 |
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
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Is it just Australia where Libra is a brand of tampons and sanitary pads for women?
https://lovelibra.com/au/ |
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19th June 2019, 04:52 AM | #28 |
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But only in a negative sense.
What this means to FB is that it has a new way to entice their customers "look it's now worthwhile advertising to this consumer because they can now pay for your goods and services". The bigger picture is does this improve the lives of the people FB and others want to charge to use it or simply extract money for particularly the very poorest and pass it onto the likes of Mark Zuckerberg. The cynic in me thinks it's simply to make more money and it wont actually improve folks lives. The optimist in me (he still hangs on by a thread) hopes this can improve the lives of those 1.5 billion. |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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19th June 2019, 05:08 AM | #29 |
Poisoned Waffles
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Are people so poor they don't have bank accounts a) using Facebook at all, b) going to buy things using Facebook's Itchy and Scratchy money? I have trouble seeing the "unbanked" using a designer fake currency, even if they're yearning to give Zuckerberg a cut of their nonwealth.
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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19th June 2019, 05:14 AM | #30 |
Master Poster
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I'm very much "banked" but this just reeks of Facebook wanting to profit off of the "unbanked". Both from fees but certainly also from suddenly being able to profile their users using financial transactions as well as all the other data.
There is no way Facebook is doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. This is business. They want to make (even more) money. |
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19th June 2019, 05:16 AM | #31 | |||
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19th June 2019, 05:20 AM | #32 |
Poisoned Waffles
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My caddie/chauffeur informs me that a bank is where people put money that isn't properly invested. --Judge Whitey
I don't see a cryptocurrency helping anybody who's so far down the finance totem pole they're not even able to make the common mistake of the general public. |
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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19th June 2019, 05:49 AM | #33 |
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There also appears to be a number of existing and defunk private and semi public currencies around the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States |
19th June 2019, 06:08 AM | #34 |
Girl
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Libra looks like an informal (non state backed) "currency board" to me, reserved with a basket of regular currencies rather than just one. The idea seems to be that it is less speculative than things like bitcoins, also it shouldn't waste gob loads of energy to "mine".
Struggling to see the utility of this that is in any way unique from zillions of other mobile/micro payment platforms. Probably its the piggy-back onto facebook and nothing else. |
19th June 2019, 06:10 AM | #35 |
Girl
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Of course they are in it for the money.
Arguably one reason why poor people are poor is that there are not enough ways to make money off them, meaning not enough ways to trade with them something worth more to them than the money. But there's plenty of space for a lot of cynicism about that! |
19th June 2019, 06:11 AM | #36 |
Girl
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19th June 2019, 06:17 AM | #37 |
Girl
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Facebook probably should issue its equity in libra, then it would be eating its own cooking. Wonder how likely that is.
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19th June 2019, 06:20 AM | #38 |
Philosopher
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I agree.
I also agree with that. There is potential for good in this, but as Francesca says, Its not clear why this would be better than the million other ways to transfer money via phones. It is facebook so there is plenty of reason to be skeptical. I shall reserve judgement for now. |
19th June 2019, 06:23 AM | #39 |
Poisoned Waffles
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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19th June 2019, 06:31 AM | #40 |
Girl
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Right. There was this really nice pair of shoes I was interested in recently, but at the checkout it suddenly dawned on me if they are so good why on earth is the shop lady trying to unload them onto me, so I walked out.
(Actually you probably will be able to buy FB shares with this currency, they would be daft not to do that) |
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