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Old 7th May 2019, 10:32 AM   #601
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm going with:

Visceral pleasure of sticking it to a nazi political enemy.

And:

Normalizes political violence, which I think is actually a feature, not a bug, for some proponents who imagine they will emerge as the winners once the conflict erupts.
Even worse, IMO, is that they don't see it as fundamentally wrong in the first place.
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Old 7th May 2019, 10:35 AM   #602
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
Not sure if this is sarcasm and endorsing the point Thermal was making, or missing the point completely. I have not seen anything to suggest he supported the Kaiser against the Nazis, especially given that he went on to become good friends with Fidel Castro. I said wearing the helmet during WW2 could have been seen as supporting the Nazis. I There are still people today who incorrectly believe all German soldiers were members of the Nazi party and there are still people to this day who try to claim P. Trudeau supported the Nazis from this story.
Did he say he was a Nazi?
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Old 7th May 2019, 10:35 AM   #603
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
They're not doing it on accident.

There are several posters in this thread objecting to the term "nazi" being applied to those who openly display nazi symbols. That's a PR job.

I'm not saying that anyone who opposes egging is pro-nazi - There is an important moral argument to be had on this issue. But there is some denial in this thread roughly on the same level as arguing that ISIS has nothing to do with Islam.
It could be. I am using it as devil's advocacy to hilite the argument. Our eggers are basing solely on looks and their personal take on the symbols. Their take is not as universal as they think.
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:01 AM   #604
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
Not sure if this is sarcasm and endorsing the point Thermal was making, or missing the point completely. I have not seen anything to suggest he supported the Kaiser against the Nazis, especially given that he went on to become good friends with Fidel Castro. I said wearing the helmet during WW2 could have been seen as supporting the Nazis. I There are still people today who incorrectly believe all German soldiers were members of the Nazi party and there are still people to this day who try to claim P. Trudeau supported the Nazis from this story.
Yes and it is totally irrelevant to claiming that people using explicit nazi imagery and rhetoric are totally not at all nazis.
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:01 AM   #605
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I agree. But the flip side of that reasoning is how do you definitively determine what they do mean by it?

What does a cross wearer mean by his display of that universal icon? More to the point, what range of things might they mean? Ozzy Osbourne likely meant something much different than Pope Francis means.
You are honestly asking what someone means when they wear Nazi regalia?
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:04 AM   #606
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Look, no one wants to end up being devil's advocate for these phallicly-challenged neos.
Why not? These are not real nazis after all just internet edgelord trolls using nazi symbols and rhetoric ironically. There are no nazis anymore. That was what you have been saying right?
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:05 AM   #607
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
No one has addressed Bouncing Bettys point yet, about whether this tactic has been shown to be effective in dealig with nazi types. Or is the argument here that it's more fun/productive to abuse people? You won't win converts in debate, agreed. But exactly what are you trying to accomplish?
How do you propose to win converts from the nazis marching in the streets?
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:07 AM   #608
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
It could be. I am using it as devil's advocacy to hilite the argument. Our eggers are basing solely on looks and their personal take on the symbols. Their take is not as universal as they think.
Yep we are back to nazi rhetoric and uniforms in no way make someone a nazi. When is someone really a nazi?
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:08 AM   #609
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
You are honestly asking what someone means when they wear Nazi regalia?
No he is honestly asserting that marching around in nazi regalia is meaningless.
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:11 AM   #610
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Look at all this silly outcry finding nazis in the mere use of dual sig runes.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-ss-flag-photo

Clearly nothing suspect or even remotely questionable about things like that.
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:14 AM   #611
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
You are honestly asking what someone means when they wear Nazi regalia?
No, I'm pointing out that most users claim to have abandoned some of the connotations that the rest of us have
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:21 AM   #612
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yep we are back to nazi rhetoric and uniforms in no way make someone a nazi. When is someone really a nazi?
ponderingturtle, if your question is framed as 'Yep (lame straw man), or 'Exactly (lame straw man), please save us the time of expecting a response.
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:27 AM   #613
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
You are honestly asking what someone means when they wear Nazi regalia?
What did Prince Harry mean when he war a Nazi uniform to a costume party? Aren't we glad calmer heads prevailed and decided to ask rather than assume? Despite having family with ties to Germany and even some who supposedly supported the Nazis in WW2, his actions and words on there own do not seem to suggest an endorsement of Nazism and certainly not the inclination to carry out murderous acts.
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:30 AM   #614
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Even worse, IMO, is that they don't see it as fundamentally wrong in the first place.
Yep. That is definitely the worst part.
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:32 AM   #615
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
You are honestly asking what someone means when they wear Nazi regalia?
What does does it mean when someone opens up a Nazi-themed restaurant?
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:34 AM   #616
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
In the same way that stubbing your toe is on the same continuum as stepping into a giant meat grinder, yeah, it is.
Except that we have plenty of examples of political violence leading to worse and worse things because that's the nature of violence.
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:40 AM   #617
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What does does it mean when someone opens up a Nazi-themed restaurant?
It means they need a good egging.
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:41 AM   #618
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Except that we have plenty of examples of political violence leading to worse and worse things because that's the nature of violence.
Yes, not stamping on Nazis hard leads to genocide.

lessons from history and all that.
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:44 AM   #619
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Yes, not stamping on Nazis hard leads to genocide.

lessons from history and all that.
Yeah so the solution is obviously to use political violence ourselves. What could go wrong?

You're simply not thinking this through. "NAZI=EVIL!" isn't much of a reasoning.
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:47 AM   #620
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Well now I know that just because someone is covered with nazi themed tattoos someone would have to be crazy to think he might be a racist.

It is like suggesting the KKK is racist. They are quite clear that they are not a racist organization and so merely having KKK imagery is not racist either.

https://www.newsweek.com/kkk-north-c...ux-klan-765473

So we are clear that just because someone is covered with nazi and KKK symbols that in no way makes them a racist, and only a bigot would ever think that.
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:49 AM   #621
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Yeah so the solution is obviously to use political violence ourselves. What could go wrong?

You're simply not thinking this through. "NAZI=EVIL!" isn't much of a reasoning.
There is clearly nothing fundamentally wrong with Nazism.

Ah remember when internet discussions about Nazis rarely involved actual Nazis who thought Hitler was right, and people defending them? Those were the days.
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:51 AM   #622
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
There is clearly nothing fundamentally wrong with Nazism.
In the future I'll strive to remember that you support genocide.

Clearly you haven't been paying attention, but we're calling political violence very bad, then the Nazis were definitely a terrible evil, yes?

That's if you could keep a single thought in your head.
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:52 AM   #623
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Yes, not stamping on Nazis hard leads to genocide.

lessons from history and all that.
Nations have powers that individuals don't
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:55 AM   #624
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Nations have powers that individuals don't
Yep why they were right to call hitler harmless and that his anti semitism was totally nothing to worry about in 1922. There were no real nazis until 1939 after all.
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:55 AM   #625
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My uncles fought against the Nazis. I am happy to continue a family tradition.
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:56 AM   #626
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yep why they were right to call hitler harmless and that his anti semitism was totally nothing to worry about in 1922. There were no real nazis until 1939 after all.
Don't you ever get tired of strawmanning other people's posts? Are you like this in real life?
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:57 AM   #627
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Yeah so the solution is obviously to use political violence ourselves. What could go wrong?

Remember something called WW2? Violence against Nazis.
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:57 AM   #628
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
My uncles fought against the Nazis. I am happy to continue a family tradition.
Now now now we can't assume just from their being in such organizations that they were real nazis and not posers. Really I am beginning to suspect that there never were any real nazis anywhere that would satisfy so many in this thread.
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:58 AM   #629
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To me it is pretty simple, after thinking more about it.

If you want to egg some one go for your life.

Just don't moan if you get punched in the face for doing it.

Everything is good.

Everyone happy

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Old 7th May 2019, 11:59 AM   #630
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Remember something called WW2? Violence against Nazis.
Come on totally unjustified most of them were not even nazi party members and most of those where just posers. Get in the spirit of such things now.
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Old 7th May 2019, 12:00 PM   #631
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
To me it is pretty simple, after thinking more about it.

If you want to egg some one go for your life.

Just don't moan if you get punched in the face for doing it.

Everything is good.

Everyone happy

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And the minor shootings in Christchurch of course were done by a harmless internet edgelord troll, we can see by his ties to 8chan. Why did everyone get worked up about someone who wasn't even a real racist?
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Old 7th May 2019, 12:00 PM   #632
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Remember something called WW2? Violence against Nazis.
That wasn't vigilante violence. That was a war against an expansive, oppressive, genocidal regime.

You might notice a slight difference, there.

The point of all this is that violence begets violence, so you shouldn't use it lightly, lest you find yourself in a world where street violence is justified and widespread, and the reason for that is that you're just as likely to be a target.
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Old 7th May 2019, 12:05 PM   #633
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
That wasn't vigilante violence. That was a war against an expansive, oppressive, genocidal regime.

You might notice a slight difference, there.

The point of all this is that violence begets violence, so you shouldn't use it lightly, lest you find yourself in a world where street violence is justified and widespread, and the reason for that is that you're just as likely to be a target.
A-friggin-men
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Old 7th May 2019, 12:06 PM   #634
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What does does it mean when someone opens up a Nazi-themed restaurant?

Probably not the same as in Europe. Opening an Imperial-Japan-themed restaurant in continental Europe probably wouldn't be frowned upon as much as a Nazi-themed one. But if you attempted to do the same thing in China ...
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Old 7th May 2019, 12:09 PM   #635
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
In the future I'll strive to remember that you support genocide.

Clearly you haven't been paying attention, but we're calling political violence very bad, then the Nazis were definitely a terrible evil, yes?

That's if you could keep a single thought in your head.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the Germans (expert on Nazis one would assume) have a de-radicalization program which doesn't even focus on the radical ideas themselves. They focus on finding work and career goals for radical individuals because it is there belief that the underlying socio-economic issues are what drives people to radicalization. Hitler and his Nazis seemed to seize on socio-economic issues of the day (WW1 reparations, the Great Depression, etc) and created a convenient boogie man, as a way to draw support and for others to just look the other way.

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Old 7th May 2019, 12:10 PM   #636
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
That wasn't vigilante violence. That was a war against an expansive, oppressive, genocidal regime.

You might notice a slight difference, there.

The point of all this is that violence begets violence, so you shouldn't use it lightly, lest you find yourself in a world where street violence is justified and widespread, and the reason for that is that you're just as likely to be a target.

All this violence seemed to put an end to Nazi violence - at least for a while.
Did you notice a slight difference between egging a Nazi and the bombing of Dresden in WW II? Did any Nazis get eggshells in their eyes?
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 7th May 2019, 12:26 PM   #637
dann
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the Germans (expert on Nazis one would assume) have a de-radicalization program which doesn't even focus on the radical ideas themselves. They focus on finding work and career goals for radical individuals because it is there belief that the underlying socio-economic issues are what drives people to radicalization. Hitler and his Nazis seemed to seize on socio-economic issues of the day (WW1 reparations, the Great Depression, etc) and created a convenient boogie man, as a way to draw support and for others to just look the other way.

At least according to this interview with Thomas Mücke from Violence Prevention Network, Radikale zurück ins Leben führen (Migros-Magazin), they seem to start with a focus on the re-radicalization before they help them (Neo Nazis as well as former ISIS warriors) get and education and a job.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 7th May 2019, 12:29 PM   #638
cullennz
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And the minor shootings in Christchurch of course were done by a harmless internet edgelord troll, we can see by his ties to 8chan. Why did everyone get worked up about someone who wasn't even a real racist?

You just compared the politicians the bloke standing with a flag getting egged to a bloke that shot 100 and killed 51 of them?

......Yeah ok.

Meanwhile. Back in reality everyone realises ponderingturtles views meybe be slightly off kilter
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Old 7th May 2019, 12:37 PM   #639
dann
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Were the good, peaceful online Nazis egging (sorry!) him on or not?! Did they advise him not to do a thing like that?
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 7th May 2019, 12:38 PM   #640
Bouncing Bettys
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
My uncles fought against the Nazis. I am happy to continue a family tradition.
Have you continued the tradition by enlisting with a military currently engaged with the Nazi regime or intend to? Would you say this egged Nazi is the same as the Nazis your uncles fought against?
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