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7th May 2019, 12:40 PM | #641 |
Penultimate Amazing
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For those of you who understand German, I can recommend Freerk Huisken's book Der demokratische Schoß ist fruchtbar - Das Elend der Kritik am (Neo-)Faschismus (VSA Verlag, 2011). He analyzes the different ways to tackle Nazis. Free online version of the book.
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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7th May 2019, 12:43 PM | #642 |
Penultimate Amazing
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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7th May 2019, 12:48 PM | #643 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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7th May 2019, 12:51 PM | #644 |
Banned
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The person who threw the egg at Scott Morrison has been charged with assault.
This can't be right. As according to some on here egging is just like an enthusiastic hand shake and remember the Nazis in world war 2 and the chch shooter? What is the world coming to? |
7th May 2019, 12:59 PM | #645 |
Penultimate Amazing
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7th May 2019, 01:02 PM | #646 |
Fiend God
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7th May 2019, 01:03 PM | #647 |
I say nay!
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Yesterday I was going to hit a Nazi with a pillow, But I wanted to check with the sympathizers here about the right amount of thread count.
I wouldn't want to gently braize any skin. |
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Memento Mori |
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7th May 2019, 01:05 PM | #648 |
I say nay!
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Memento Mori |
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7th May 2019, 01:05 PM | #649 |
Fiend God
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Don't play the weasel game. Who are the Nazi sympathisers, here? Names, please.
Do you not understand the difference between being opposed to vigilante acts of violence, and supporting their intended victims? No one here is that stupid. So clearly there's a game that's being played here by you and others. |
7th May 2019, 01:14 PM | #650 |
I say nay!
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Memento Mori |
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7th May 2019, 01:20 PM | #651 |
Fiend God
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7th May 2019, 01:22 PM | #652 |
Thinker
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So they aren't the same then? Glad we agree. He also can't be one of those Nazis because there currently are no national governments or state sponsored militaries actively committing genocide and world domination in the name of the Nazi Party or any of the original surviving members.
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7th May 2019, 01:26 PM | #653 |
Penultimate Amazing
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7th May 2019, 01:31 PM | #654 |
Penultimate Amazing
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7th May 2019, 01:36 PM | #655 |
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So you think that idiots like the dude with the flag are actually going to infiltrate, form a new party to go against the Rep and Dems, get a pNazi President and congress in and turn the US into a Nazi state then?
Interesting Sounds a lot like the "We have to have guns in case the govt turns against it's own people and starts mass killing it's citizens" argument. |
7th May 2019, 01:46 PM | #656 |
Penultimate Amazing
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He wants to be a Nazi, he deserves everything a nazi should get.
It's not a game. |
7th May 2019, 01:50 PM | #657 |
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7th May 2019, 01:52 PM | #658 |
I say nay!
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Memento Mori |
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7th May 2019, 02:15 PM | #659 |
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"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 |
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7th May 2019, 02:16 PM | #660 |
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"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 |
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7th May 2019, 02:16 PM | #661 |
Thinker
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7th May 2019, 02:27 PM | #662 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Here's hoping that you take more care to confirm that presumed nazis are actually nazis. Of course I base this on you applauding the picture of an innocent person seriously injured by an egg, having knee-jerked to the assumption the guy is a nazi.
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To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
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7th May 2019, 02:30 PM | #663 |
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To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
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7th May 2019, 02:41 PM | #664 |
Fiend God
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I'm not going to allow you to call people Nazi sympathisers just because they're telling you that engaging in vigilante violence is a bad idea.
Hey, another disciple of the strawmaster! You guys are multiplying quite quickly. When it strikes you to address what people actually say rather than some boogeyman of your twisted imagination, give me a shout. |
7th May 2019, 02:44 PM | #665 |
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7th May 2019, 02:45 PM | #666 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I'm a big fan of the Eisenhower Solution: Wait until they start ****, then send in the 101st Airborne.
You're making three major mistakes here: 1. Not waiting until they start ****; 2. Arrogating to yourself the authority properly held by the federal government; and 3. Failing to imagine any forms of resistance other than political violence. |
7th May 2019, 02:47 PM | #667 |
Philosopher
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The injured guy in that article I posted was not a Nazi. I posted it to show that people can be injured by egg throwing. You've just shown us all why vigilante justice is illegal and a very bad idea. Thank you for the contribution. Do you people understand why we have laws? It's funny that some of you are slamming nazis while you advocate vigilante violence at your whim, facts be damned. That is some dangerously warped "thinking". |
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Why bother? |
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7th May 2019, 02:48 PM | #668 |
Penultimate Amazing
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7th May 2019, 02:49 PM | #669 |
Professional Nemesis for Hire
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Is this type of response meaningful in any way? Are you of the opinion that you are engaging with people here? It's exhausting to have to trawl through the same statement couched in different words.
It's like a performance. It's the literary equivalent of being egged, time and time again. |
7th May 2019, 02:50 PM | #670 |
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7th May 2019, 02:51 PM | #671 |
Philosopher
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Why bother? |
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7th May 2019, 03:02 PM | #672 |
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Quite possibly, it's bloody hard work whatever it is and seems to be catching!
Y'know reading it back I'm imagining a small man standing behind a lectern; ranting, pumping his fist in the air then thumping the lectern with every point he makes. His voice rising and falling as he winds himself (and now his adoring supporters) up. I can't think where I get that image from. |
7th May 2019, 03:04 PM | #673 |
Fiend God
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Also, failing to understand the consequences. Once you initiate violence, violence is how it'll end, and the advocates of terrorism here aren't considering that perhaps they'll be on the losing end. At least when you uphold democracy, discussion and the rule of law, you have a framework that shields everyone from these consequences.
By all means, if this breaks down and violence is the only remaining solution, go for it, but don't tear down society preemptively because the people you disagree with have ideas that you can't live with. Furthermore, I doubt that any of them would volunteer to deliberately go out and find Nazis to punch or, presumably, kill, since that's how you stop them, according to them. They're keyboard warriors, nothing else. |
7th May 2019, 03:06 PM | #674 |
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7th May 2019, 03:08 PM | #675 |
Fiend God
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I'm sure many here think that the reason they rose to power is that no one stopped them.
But it's not that simple. Interwar Germany was a powderkeg. The Democratic state was weak and ineffective, racial hatred was at a peak, conspiracy theories about the WWI defeat widely circulated, Germany was isolated and ridiculed, in their mind, etc. It was going to blow, one way or another, under one madman or another. |
7th May 2019, 03:13 PM | #676 |
Penultimate Amazing
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7th May 2019, 03:16 PM | #677 |
Featherless biped
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7th May 2019, 03:32 PM | #678 |
Featherless biped
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Country Women’s Association Egg Cookery for Young Revolutionaries
https://twitter.com/cathywilcox1/sta...300181504?s=21 |
7th May 2019, 03:43 PM | #679 |
Skepticifimisticalationist
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We know what this swastika wearer thinks about his connection with the Nazis because we know about his other Nazi activities.
(The guy we're talking about does though) That's not actually true; but even if it was this argument is absurd, as addressed below. The Christian cross doesn't represent advocacy for stoning, though. In fact the figure they worship explicitly said "hey don't do that kind of thing"; so yeah, this argument is a fail. The symbol means they want people to know they worship Jesus. That's literally it. By your own acknowledgement, the Nazi swastika represents a much more narrow and specific ideology, confined to a much more specific space and time, than the Christian cross does; so this analogy is going to get silly quickly. Look, I'll admit, it's partly my fault for allowing you guys to put the focus exclusively on killing and genocide, as if those are the only things that make Nazism/white-nationalism truly repugnant and absent those things there's nothing really all that risible or offensive or threatening about it (i.e., "just someone with an opinion"). But that ends now. Genocide was only one part of it. The Nazi atrocities did not begin or end specifically with the mass-murder of the minorities whom they first systematically disenfranchised, segregated, and then concentrated; nor with their overt moves toward "world domination". You find me an American neo-nazi who claims to be against mass killing but still thinks America is the white man's land first and foremost, and the laws and social structure and attitudes should be changed to reflect that, I'll show you a neo-nazi who is still advocating Nazi atrocities. A new white-nationalist regime that stops short of genocide and aggressive military conquest is still something that cannot be freely permitted to happen ever again and needs to be treated like the real threat that it is. This particular point yes, undisguisedly so. Because you're apologizing for an avowed nazi at the moment; it's not difficult. It's not up to me to reconcile the inconsistencies of your statements; I'm content to simply point them out. Because I never see them. It's great if "some of your best friends are antifa" I guess; if you want to fill us all in on why you advocate punching Spencer but think throwing an egg at this guy is over the line, feel free to do so. But this is the first time I'm aware of such an argument on your part; and saying such things doesn't really constitute a free pass to apologize for this guy anyway, so I'm not sure it's worth your time. "You can throw an egg as long as it doesn't hurt anyone" is "immensely hypocritical", gotcha. No; that's just a list of his public activities. Somebody stepping on his dropped MAGA hat and then getting into it with him when he put his hands on them did not "turn him into a Hitler supporter". The world is not some comic book and this is not his supervillain origin-story. If MAGA people aren't nazis, there's no clear and direct road from the first part to the second part. But I think you understand that well enough, and realize that this is just a convenient opportunity to stay off the back foot by changing the subject from the fact that yes, this guy very definitely is all-nazi and advocates all of it after all, to HE'S ONLY A NAZI BECAUSE OF YOU. |
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7th May 2019, 03:45 PM | #680 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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