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7th May 2019, 04:55 PM | #681 |
Observer of Phenomena
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She.
And yes, it is concerning when someone can get that close to a sitting Prime Minister during the height of an election campaign. This time it was an egg. Next time it might be a knife. It makes security extremely nervous and decreases our politicians' accessibility to the public, which is not good for democracy. |
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So take that quantum equation and recalculate the wave by a factor of hoopty doo! The answer is not my problem, it's yours. Three Word Story Wisdom |
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7th May 2019, 05:02 PM | #682 |
Featherless biped
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It would be a shame to put more barriers between our polies and us.
There is something endearing about stories like the one told by former Aust PM Paul Keating (1991-1996) Reporter: You don't talk to ordinary people! |
7th May 2019, 08:40 PM | #683 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
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The guy we're talking about, Jovi Val, says he's a nazi? Can a brother get a cite on that? Him actually saying he's a nazi, now. No weaseling.
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Now, do you understand that it's against 'the rules' to throw things at people? Kind of assaultish? But ya approve when you like it, and condemn when ya don't. Yeah, that's hypocritical. And before you say 'but that was a bad old punch! I only cheer for non-violent eggs', please cite relevant egg-excluding 'rules'.
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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7th May 2019, 09:26 PM | #684 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Ya see? Y'all are doing it again.
Let me remind you what Checkmite actually said "We know what this swastika wearer thinks about his connection with the Nazis because we know about his other Nazi activities." See if you can spot where you made your mistake... I'll be disappointed if I have to explain it to you. |
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7th May 2019, 09:38 PM | #685 |
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You think he looks like a nazi, and you think he acts like a nazi =/= he says he's a nazi.
See if you can spot your mistake...i'll be disappointed if I have to explain it to you. Checkmite makes a lot of claims that turn out to be only in his head. We'll see if this is one. eta: I said 'there's a reason they don't straight-up call themselves nazis', to which Checkmite responded 'the guy we're talking about does though'. You evidently forgot to read that part. Which was kind of the whole thing. |
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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7th May 2019, 09:55 PM | #686 |
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Your grandchildren will be brown, trans, and Islamo-Communist. |
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7th May 2019, 09:59 PM | #687 |
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Unfortunately not, because nazi videos tend to be taken down by YouTube, so a lot of these figures' explanations of their views are not available anymore.
But see, he's wearing the nazi symbols. It's really up to anyone else to prove that he's only a "95% nazi supporter", and to demonstrate exactly what that 95% is, if they want to make that preposterous defense on his behalf. You specifically said Christian cross. LOL. I'm not commanding people to go throw eggs. I'm just okay with that particular tactic. The grander point is not giving Nazis a seat at the table of public discourse, as it were. That's the "treating it like the threat it is" part. If your opted approach is to just chase them away with an egg - as long as you don't hurt them, then "okay". If it's not, then by all means don't. What you should not do is treat their rhetoric with the dignity and equivalence that engaging in earnest debate confers upon it. What you should definitely not do, more than anything else, is apologize for them and invent excuses on their behalf for what they do or do not believe, especially ones they haven't actually made for themselves, and particularly when your redefinition of their beliefs contradicts their own chosen means of expression. No matter how much you try to force equivocation where none exists, it will never be the case that it is unfair and presumptuous to consider somebody carrying a flag with Nazi symbols on it and wearing a Nazi medallion around their neck a Nazi. Do you understand that I never said egg-throwers can't or shouldn't be arrested? Why don't you go back and find what I had to say about that specific point. It was fairly early in the thread so you shouldn't have to look too long if you start from the beginning. My reasoning has been very consistent. Yes I know egging comes with legal consequences. It's not the fact that punching people also comes with consequences that makes me object to punching. I've already explained over and over and over and over and over and over again that I think what makes punching nazis wrong is the fact that its point is to cause pain and/or injury, and the reason I don't look down on egging the same way is because it does not, when done as the anti-nazi eggers of late have done it. If you want to arrest the people with the eggs - be my absolute guest. I never said you couldn't, or implied in the least that you shouldn't. Somebody already brought this up once; but part of the whole point of civil disobedience, is the willing to be arrested in order to make the point part. |
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7th May 2019, 10:05 PM | #688 |
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I think I made it very clear with my egging-versus-the-bombing-of-Dresden example: egging and bombing are extremely different: one is extremely violent, the other one isn't. And you know the difference, you just introduced a new distinction when your focus on violence against Nazis proved to be so damn wrong in the light of WW2. |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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7th May 2019, 10:06 PM | #689 |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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7th May 2019, 10:12 PM | #690 |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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7th May 2019, 10:12 PM | #691 | |||
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Hey look, I found a video from Val's "Fash Bash" that hasn't been deleted yet. I don't see what in the least is Nazi-ish about this. It is absolutely irrational to think these people identify in any way with Nazis.
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7th May 2019, 10:19 PM | #692 |
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That's not true. There are still a couple of those Nazis around in 2019: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...free-pensions/ But you seem to find it very important to defend Nazis against the atrocity of egging until they are so powerful the egging is no longer an option: "actively committing genocide." I guess even Christchurch was not enough for you. |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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7th May 2019, 10:21 PM | #693 |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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7th May 2019, 10:38 PM | #694 |
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I guess that mgidm86 wants more video clips of people throwing eggs at each other for fun. And then we can add a couple of videos of people gettin injured by ice skating, bicycling, and snowball fighting. Hell, let's turn this thread into one exclusively about egg injuries, including salmonella and allergies. And let's not forget that arguments can seriously hurt people's feelings so we should never irresponsibly criticize innocent Nazis until they've taken control of a nation, i.e. until criticism of Nazis has become an actual offense. But, of course, by then we definitely shouldn't criticize Nazis because that would be breaking the law! |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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7th May 2019, 10:45 PM | #695 |
Penultimate Amazing
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So now you're trying to make cake suspicious?! I mean, it's just a cake, man! Do you never eat cake? I bet a Nazi cake is chemically indistinguishable from any other cake, you know, sugar, flour, milk ... and maybe even eggs!!! Seriously, that cake would look very good on any Nazi's face! |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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7th May 2019, 10:45 PM | #696 |
Penultimate Amazing
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To sum up: Checkmite- He says outright he is a Nazi!
Thermal- Really? Checkmite- Well, no...but I'll vaguely allude that he did. Remember the Python 'Burn the Witch' skit?
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Btw, another stellar example of why I don't want you going Charles Bronson. You are absolutely not a detail guy.
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Nah, I don't think the cat you are alluding to had that in mind. |
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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7th May 2019, 10:47 PM | #697 |
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"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 |
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7th May 2019, 10:50 PM | #698 |
Penultimate Amazing
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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7th May 2019, 10:51 PM | #699 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Didn't watch the whole thing because I refuse to give that stuff a view, unless it's necessary. Suffice to say they had the iconography around, and you filled in the rest?
No doubt that they fetishize nazi stuff. I am not confident that they actually want to kill and conquer. I think the distinction is important, but we may have to agree to disagree. Plus Miki Dora was so totes a Jew-gasser. He loved it. |
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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7th May 2019, 10:55 PM | #700 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Or more likely, you chuck eggs at a red hat you see some presumed nazi type wearing...that turns out to really read U.S.M.C....and he wants to have a word with you. Or mistakes someone in your vicinity as the thrower. What a fun prank!
Not so farfetched, considering your accuracy in details of late. |
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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7th May 2019, 11:10 PM | #701 |
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Your grandchildren will be brown, trans, and Islamo-Communist. |
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7th May 2019, 11:14 PM | #702 |
Penultimate Amazing
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From Jersey. What's your excuse?
Follow from the beginning to see how we got here. eta: Cliff Notes version: I laughed at posters rationalizing assault, and said if you want to do that, great. Just own it. They won't own it, just keep making excuses about how a little assault is not really bad. |
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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7th May 2019, 11:23 PM | #703 |
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7th May 2019, 11:26 PM | #704 |
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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7th May 2019, 11:28 PM | #705 |
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The primary reason vigilantism against witches was a bad idea because there was no such thing as witches, combined with the fact that the victims specifically denied being witches. Neo-nazis/white nationalists very much do exist, they are open about what they choose to believe, and the atrocities Nazis committed were real too.
What is the difference between a "Fash rally" and one guy by himself but still standing on the public sidewalk spewing the same rhetoric and waving the same flags, aside from the number of "Fash"onistas present, that suddenly makes it okay in the former but not in the latter? In the context of this particular argument, that's prevarication. If the person wearing the nonspecific "cross" pendant is also wearing a "fish symbol" pin on his lapel and a bumper sticker on the back of his car that says "John 14:6", it is completely inane to insist that he can't confidently be identified as a Christian. A "Japanese Buddhist" likely would not wear a swastika as a pendant (I'm unaware any Buddhist ever wearing swastika pendants in any case, but I'm willing to admit there's a chance); but if he did so, he certainly not be carrying a flag with the Nazi eagle on it at the same time and singing Happy Birthday to a photograph of "Uncle Addy". Val provides far and away plenty enough corroborating iconography to make it very clear that his swastika is intended to invoke a connection with Nazism and absolutely no other, more innocuous use of this symbol. He is not being misidentified. This entire line of objection by you is utterly specious in-context. I never said I planned to egg anyone. It's hilarious though that you have the pluck to say something like this about me, at the end of an argument that relies entirely on focusing on one specific detail, pointedly removed from all context, while steadfastly refusing to acknowledge the existence or importance of all of the other details surrounding it. No, that's "slippery slope", which so many people in this forum seem to forget is a logical fallacy. We know what allowing white nationalists to propagandize without challenge or resistance leads to, because that actually happened in a documented period of history and we can study the results. We do not have the same hindsight of history warning us that an occasional egg being thrown at a nazi must turn into "rocks" at some point. Yeah the line is firmly between hurting people and not hurting people. What does the "weak tea" metaphor even mean? If it's an arrestable offense, arrest them. What, if I'm okay with them being arrested after the egging, suddenly an arrest isn't "good enough" or something? To deny Nazis a seat at the ta....you know what, I'm tired of repeating myself. From now on whenever you ask me a question that I've already answered in one of the last half-dozen posts I've made, in some cases multiple times, I'm just going to say "already answered". What cat? NOW what on Earth are you talking about? |
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"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 |
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7th May 2019, 11:42 PM | #706 |
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"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 |
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7th May 2019, 11:57 PM | #707 |
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I'm guessing that's not the kind of phrase one would be advised to google when on a government computer network?
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So take that quantum equation and recalculate the wave by a factor of hoopty doo! The answer is not my problem, it's yours. Three Word Story Wisdom |
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8th May 2019, 12:14 AM | #708 |
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It's iffy.
To save your search history, I'll fill you in. It is a phrase used among white nationalists, neo-nazis, supremacists, and other self-identified alt-righters to refer to an anticipated day (or period of time if necessary) in the future when the Jews Who Run The Deep State, and all their well-known libtard collaborators (such as Obama, Soros, Clinton, and the rest) are rounded up and finally executed. The term "rope" specifically references hanging as the method of execution of course, but it's not necessarily prescriptive. Far more important is that the Enemy will finally be exposed and killed. The name itself was chosen to reference a specific event in Nazi Germany, the nacht der langen Messer, or "Night of the Long Knives", an event which took place over a couple of days in summer 1934 in which Hitler's SS and the Gestapo killed all of the leftist and socialist leaders, and other prominent members, of the Nazi Party, as well as prominent anti-nazis outside the party such as former chancellor Kurt von Schleicher. At least some 85 people were killed in this national purge of Hitler's political enemies, with some accounts saying several hundred. |
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"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 |
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8th May 2019, 01:24 AM | #709 |
Penultimate Amazing
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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8th May 2019, 01:26 AM | #710 |
Penultimate Amazing
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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8th May 2019, 02:14 AM | #711 |
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8th May 2019, 02:17 AM | #712 |
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What does that even matter? We're not discussing war.
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Yes, the Nazis were terrible and to stop their genocidal regime it took a big, big war. But you've got to be able to demonstrate that the so-called "nazis" now are poised to take over the US and go at it again before you suggest we dismantle the rule of law. |
8th May 2019, 02:25 AM | #713 |
Fiend God
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Here's the problem: humans are capable of those things, Nazi or not. But you know how it starts? Vigilantism and political violence, the very thing you're advocating.
There's no discussion to be had about how bad the Nazis are; they're probably the worst human thing imaginable. But that does not change the fact that, unless you have no other option, engaging in violent acts will not improve the situation. But go ahead, if you think things are that bad, why don't you volunteer to hunt them down and kill them, for the greater good? |
8th May 2019, 02:51 AM | #714 |
Pi
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I can't believe this is even a topic of conversation.
Nobody gets to assault anybody with impunity. Throwing eggs at people is assault. So is pouring milkshake over them. One is either in favour of due process or one is not. Anyone countenancing egg throwing as harmless and warranted because "I didn't like his t-shirt" (and that's what it comes down to) is flat out wrong. And probably a hindrance to whatever cause they think they're championing. I really can't believe it's even a discussion. |
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8th May 2019, 02:52 AM | #715 |
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8th May 2019, 02:58 AM | #716 |
Pi
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There's nothing fundamentally wrong with 14C Indian symbol of divinity and spirituality either. I suspect what would really, really annoy those who wear such symbols is being ignored. One does not don nazi regalia and leave the house thinking "I hope I don't attract any attention." |
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Up the River! Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted] |
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8th May 2019, 03:05 AM | #717 |
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8th May 2019, 03:05 AM | #718 |
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8th May 2019, 03:08 AM | #719 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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8th May 2019, 03:11 AM | #720 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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