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Old 8th May 2019, 03:12 AM   #721
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Edit: Ignore this post.

Should have read whole exchange
In case you're wondering, my comment was a parody of this:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
There is clearly nothing fundamentally wrong with Nazism.
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Old 8th May 2019, 03:12 AM   #722
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Who is the real nazi and how do you know? The shooter has all the hallmarks of the poser 8chan not real nazi you are defending. So how do you know he was a real nazi and not just a mentally ill poser?
Let me get this straight

You seem to be implying the ChCh shooter who killed 51 Muslims and wounded 50 others wouldn't have happened if someone threw an egg at his head at an earlier date?
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Old 8th May 2019, 03:15 AM   #723
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
So you think that idiots like the dude with the flag are actually going to infiltrate, form a new party to go against the Rep and Dems, get a pNazi President and congress in and turn the US into a Nazi state then?
Well they have managed to get a nazi sympathizer(described by his love of nazi propaganda and distribution of such) elected president. How much power do they need to have before it becomes acceptable to resist them?
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Old 8th May 2019, 03:18 AM   #724
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Well they have managed to get a nazi sympathizer(described by his love of nazi propaganda and distribution of such) elected president. How much power do they need to have before it becomes acceptable to resist them?
Keep seeing these accusations

Do you mind posting a link to the idiot orange one promoting Nazism?
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Old 8th May 2019, 03:18 AM   #725
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Actually, it was y'all that kept harping on 'nazis who want to kill everyone'.
Exactly total strawman, even the original nazis had to be driven to it by no one being willing to take their jews. They were after totally peaceful ethnic cleansing and as such are morally totally safe from any physical resistance.
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Old 8th May 2019, 03:21 AM   #726
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Keep seeing these accusations

Do you mind posting a link to the idiot orange one promoting Nazism?
See his retweet of white supremacist groups, and using of their propaganda in his campaign. Like the famous hillary image from a nazi website, and his like of @whitegenocide(tm).

There is also his presidential endorsements of lies from white supremacists in europe.
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Old 8th May 2019, 03:24 AM   #727
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Didn't watch the whole thing because I refuse to give that stuff a view, unless it's necessary. Suffice to say they had the iconography around, and you filled in the rest?

No doubt that they fetishize nazi stuff. I am not confident that they actually want to kill and conquer. I think the distinction is important, but we may have to agree to disagree.

Do you know how many people in the early 1930s didn't think "that they actually want(ed) to kill and conquer" - until they actually did? You should at least listen to the last 15 seconds: "America for Americans. White pride worldwide."
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Old 8th May 2019, 03:25 AM   #728
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
See his retweet of white supremacist groups, and using of their propaganda in his campaign. Like the famous hillary image from a nazi website, and his like of @whitegenocide(tm).

There is also his presidential endorsements of lies from white supremacists in europe.
Endorsements from groups are irrelevant, but will look at the others
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Old 8th May 2019, 03:27 AM   #729
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Throwing eggs at people you're adamant are poised to violently take over America and commit genocide doesn't sound particularily effective.

Seems to me like they want to have their cake and eat it too, but they're out of eggs.
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Old 8th May 2019, 03:29 AM   #730
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Do you know how many people in the early 1930s didn't think "that they actually want(ed) to kill and conquer" - until they actually did?
That's true of everyone. You don't know someone a murderer until they are! Better throw eggs at everyone, just to be safe.
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Old 8th May 2019, 03:37 AM   #731
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
That's true of everyone. You don't know someone a murderer until they are! Better throw eggs at everyone, just to be safe.
Not just that

It has to be being able to throw eggs at someone's head with zero defence/retaliation or consequence apparently
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Old 8th May 2019, 03:51 AM   #732
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
That's true of everyone. You don't know someone a murderer until they are! Better throw eggs at everyone, just to be safe.

No, that's not true of everyone. The point is that it was true from the very beginning. It was true from the moment of Mein Kampf and it was true from the moment they started shouting "Juden raus."
When a murderer publishes the list of all the people he's going to kill. At that point, the police usually start to take notice, even if he's white, whereas you are busy defending his right not to be egged.
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Old 8th May 2019, 04:02 AM   #733
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What does does it mean when someone opens up a Nazi-themed restaurant?
1988? I thought you were going to post the Mumbai "Hitler Restaurant". Both cases are famously blown out of all proportion. Both cultures are notoriously ignorant of WWII European History. Plus, the Asian variant of the swastika is an ancient symbol and is still on many temples. That's about the time I was first visiting here and remember the Lonely Planet guide had a picture of kite sellers in Lumpini Park. There was a Union Jack, a Stars & Stripes, a Japanese flag, and a Nazi Germany flag. (This was before the Chinese dominated the tourist scene so no one cared about their money, so no Chinese flag.)

We've been through this. A new generation of Asians are clueless as to what happened in their own countries in WWII, much less in Europe. (Particularly if you were Japan's ally from '41 to '45.)

This is not comparable to educated westerners dolling themselves up in Nazi regalia, giving the nazi salute, making up cute harmless memes like 'Heil Trump", etc....
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Old 8th May 2019, 04:12 AM   #734
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
No, that's not true of everyone. The point is that it was true from the very beginning. It was true from the moment of Mein Kampf and it was true from the moment they started shouting "Juden raus."
When a murderer publishes the list of all the people he's going to kill. At that point, the police usually start to take notice, even if he's white, whereas you are busy defending his right not to be egged.
I might have missed the video but I didn't see the idiot with the flag on the street or Fanning shouting "Juden Raus"
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Old 8th May 2019, 04:13 AM   #735
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
No, that's not true of everyone.
Ok granted, quadraplegics can't do that.

But other than that, humans have that capacity. Nazis, islamists, communists, you name it. Violent ideologies that are allowed to become violent are dangerous. But that's the key thing: allowed to become violent, the very thing you're proposing your "side" to be.
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Old 8th May 2019, 04:25 AM   #736
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Endorsements from groups are irrelevant, but will look at the others
I said endorsement of not from. But now who he supports and spreads the messages of is irrelevant too. What is relevant?
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Old 8th May 2019, 04:31 AM   #737
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Here's the problem: humans are capable of those things, Nazi or not. But you know how it starts? Vigilantism and political violence, the very thing you're advocating.

No, you got that one completely wrong as well. Nazis didn't start with vigilantism and political violence. (And, yes, humans are capable of becoming Nazis. I don't think anybody in this thread claimed that they were lizards or ducklings.) National Socialism started with Nazi ideology - loooong before they were numerous and thus confident enough to use violence. Hitler's guys made political posters, they handed out leaflets, and they even ran for parliament, they voted and they got elected. Does that sound familiar to you? Because that's how it began. You sound as if you've never read about the history of Nazis and actually imagine that it began with egging.
Nowadays, of course, they would have used modern technology. If they existed today, they would have been all over the internet so it's a good thing that they don't. Oh, I forgot!

Quote:
There's no discussion to be had about how bad the Nazis are; they're probably the worst human thing imaginable. But that does not change the fact that, unless you have no other option, engaging in violent acts will not improve the situation.

If they're the worst human thing imaginable, why is it so important to you to stress that they're just human beings? Hitler did what he did because he was a Nazi, but you seem to think that he did what he did because he was human. You guys are always big fans of false abstractions because they imply so much more than the specific thing we're talking about: [i]egging[i] becomes throwing things a people's heads, and Nazis become mere humans - and who would want to hurt one of those guys?!
Now it's the time for you to tell us what will "improve the situation" and exactly what situation you're talking about, because so far the only situation that needs to be improved according to you seems to be the egging of Nazis, which you're so adamant about putting a stop to. For those of us who don't really mind seeing a Nazi get a good egging, the situation is that Nazis exist and prosper.

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But go ahead, if you think things are that bad, why don't you volunteer to hunt them down and kill them, for the greater good?

I've already said what I would probably do if I met him.

Originally Posted by dann View Post
If I ever met him, I would throw this at him!

That's what I throw at you, too. If I walked by him on my way home from the supermarket where I happened to have bought a carton of eggs, I don't really know what I would do, but in that situation egging him myself or making a gift of the eggs to the resistance might be an option.
I apologize in advance for ruining the new umbrella that you are busy defending him with.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th May 2019, 04:31 AM   #738
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Let me get this straight

You seem to be implying the ChCh shooter who killed 51 Muslims and wounded 50 others wouldn't have happened if someone threw an egg at his head at an earlier date?
Nice strawman. No I am just saying he was not a real nazi and we have no good evidence that he was not just an mentally ill person who also happened to be a nazi fetishist. So of course we can not call him a nazi because we don't know that he really wanted to kill and conquer for proper nazi reasons, or was just an edgelord troll who happened to be mentally ill and kill people. There simply is not enough evidence to call him a true nazi instead of just a nazi fetishist.

Be a little bit consistent, I mean it isn't like nazi paraphanalia and advocating violence is enough to call someone a nazi and how can we truely say that he shot those people as anything other than a new level of internet trolling to make people think he is a nazi for the LOLZ? The ties to 8chan certainly argue that he is just a troll and should not be considered a real nazi.
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Old 8th May 2019, 04:32 AM   #739
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I might have missed the video but I didn't see the idiot with the flag on the street or Fanning shouting "Juden Raus"

What did you see him do and hear him say?
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th May 2019, 04:33 AM   #740
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New standards in nazi apologists.

Retweeting nazis is not in anyway endorsing them, and wearing nazi imagery and using nazi slogans in a political demonstration in no way connects one to nazis.

Hmm what is the new frontier in nazi apologists next?
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Old 8th May 2019, 04:35 AM   #741
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Ok granted, quadraplegics can't do that.

But other than that, humans have that capacity. Nazis, islamists, communists, you name it. Violent ideologies that are allowed to become violent are dangerous. But that's the key thing: allowed to become violent, the very thing you're proposing your "side" to be.

No, my 'side' would like to put a stop to National Socialism, White Pride and other racist ideologies before they become violent. Your side appears to wait until they commit massacres and that's the point where you take action - defending their right not to be egged.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th May 2019, 04:39 AM   #742
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
No, you got that one completely wrong as well. Nazis didn't start with vigilantism and political violence.
I didn't say that they started with that. I said that the kind of regime you're afraid of starts with that. If the Nazis had been a peaceful organisation I doubt they would've survived for very long in that environment. There was plenty of political violence in 1920s Germany, and the only reason they won was because they were more willing to do violence than everyone else.

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If they're the worst human thing imaginable, why is it so important to you to stress that they're just human beings?
You ask the oddest questions. Where have I tried to humanise these asshats? "But political violence will lead to a worse outcome" isn't humanising the Nazis.

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Hitler did what he did because he was a Nazi, but you seem to think that he did what he did because he was human.
That makes absolutely no sense. What I said, very clearly, is that humans, regardless of ideology, are able to do terrible things. You're focusing on Nazis but forgetting that the people you're egging on (pun intended) to do violence would not be immune to that.

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Now it's the time for you to tell us what will "improve the situation"
Use speech to counter speech.

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I've already said what I would probably do if I met him.
Answer the question: why aren't you out there killing Nazis?

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I apologize in advance for ruining the new umbrella that you are busy defending him with.
Who's defending him? Are you so simple-minded that you can't differentiate between arguing for the rule of law and sympathising with Nazis?
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Old 8th May 2019, 04:43 AM   #743
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
No, my 'side' would like to put a stop to National Socialism, White Pride and other racist ideologies before they become violent

By becoming violent before they do?

The rule of law is important.

Due process is important.


Either everyone gets them or they're just bollocks.

I don't know on what basis you think that you or any individual is allowed to disregard both because you feel like it. That's utter madness.


ETA: In your world, would a hard-boiled egg be allowed? What about a three minute egg?

How hard an egg would you allow?
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Old 8th May 2019, 04:48 AM   #744
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
By becoming violent before they do?
Believe you me, if my side becomes violent we definitely can stop before things get out of hand!
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Old 8th May 2019, 04:50 AM   #745
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
No, my 'side' would like to put a stop to National Socialism, White Pride and other racist ideologies before they become violent. Your side appears to wait until they commit massacres and that's the point where you take action - defending their right not to be egged.
Do you mind pointing out how egging people helps your cause?

As it seems a bit silly and everyone moans when the eggers get hit back

It seems like "Standing up to the man" unless it doesn't work out right and doesn't really do anything
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Old 8th May 2019, 04:51 AM   #746
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Do you mind pointing out how egging people helps your cause?
It's odd. They defend using this sort of violence because it's not actually hurting anyone, and at the same time tell us that it's vital that we do this to stop the Nazis from taking power.

There's really no logic to it.
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Old 8th May 2019, 04:58 AM   #747
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
It's odd. They defend using this sort of violence because it's not actually hurting anyone, and at the same time tell us that it's vital that we do this to stop the Nazis from taking power.

There's really no logic to it.
Yeah, that's my rub too. I never really see how these lawless actions actually accomplish the goal of hindering these right-wing groups.

This egging case is an exception to the general trend of these groups, because this loser with the flag was out by himself in a very vulnerable way. So yes, egging him may dissuade him from doing it again.

But generally speaking, the neo-nazi/alt-right types have already adapted to being targeted for violence by assembling in groups, arming and armoring themselves for street fights, and engaging in counter-action against the antifa types.

It's a bit of twisted logic. Antifa can only really be effective against Nazis that are too disorganized and weak to effectively mount a defense (say, like a lone nut on the sidewalk). The alt-right types that are actually a threat are too well organized and too well supported to be quashed in such a manner.

Antifa can snatch the low hanging fruit, but I don't really see how they are going to be effective against the Nazis that are the real danger.
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Old 8th May 2019, 05:00 AM   #748
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I didn't say that they started with that. I said that the kind of regime you're afraid of starts with that. If the Nazis had been a peaceful organisation I doubt they would've survived for very long in that environment. There was plenty of political violence in 1920s Germany.

Yes, that was exactly how you said it started, and now you do the same thing you did when I pointed out that the German Nazis were defeated (much too late) by violence. You pretend that you meant (and said!) something else, which you didn't. You didn't talk about a regime, and we all know that you didn't.

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You ask the oddest questions. Where have I tried to humanise these asshats? "But political violence will lead to a worse outcome" isn't humanising the Nazis.

Whenever you say that Nazis are just human beings, and whenever you won't talk about what Nazis are capable of because they're Nazis.

Quote:
That makes absolutely no sense. What I said, very clearly, is that humans, regardless of ideology, are able to do terrible things. You're focusing on Nazis but forgetting that the people you're egging on (pun intended) to do violence would not be immune to that.

Yes, and why would you start talking about humans when what we're talking about is Nazis? Only 'humans' with certain ideologies do these terrible things. That the peaceful ones are still able to do them is irrelevant. They don't, so what's up with your insistence on their ability?
I'm not egging anybody on to do violence. I'm criticizing your absurd arguments and hyperbole.

Quote:
Use speech to counter speech.

I do. That's how I counter yours. You didn't notice?!

Quote:
Answer the question: why aren't you out there killing Nazis?

Why would I be out there killing Nazis???! Why are you here defending the rights of Nazis and blowing egging out of proportions?


Quote:
Who's defending him? Are you so simple-minded that you can't differentiate arguing for the rule of law and sympathising with Nazis?

I'm so simple-minded that I recognize when somebody is 1) trying to make Nazis look good by abstracting from everything that characterizes them as Nazis, and 2) painting egging of Nazis as a crime against humanity.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th May 2019, 05:01 AM   #749
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Yeah, that's my rub too. I never really see how these lawless actions actually accomplish the goal of hindering these right-wing groups.

This egging case is an exception to the general trend of these groups, because this loser with the flag was out by himself in a very vulnerable way. So yes, egging him may dissuade him from doing it again.

But generally speaking, the neo-nazi/alt-right types have already adapted to being targeted for violence by assembling in groups, arming and armoring themselves for street fights, and engaging in counter-action against the antifa types.

It's a bit of twisted logic. Antifa can only really be effective against Nazis that are too disorganized and weak to effectively mount a defense (say, like a lone nut on the sidewalk). The alt-right types that are actually a threat are too well organized and too well supported to be quashed in such a manner.

Antifa can snatch the low hanging fruit, but I don't really see how they are going to be effective against the Nazis that are the real danger.
It's a bit of a catch. If protesters couldn't be armed at least, you'd stand a better chance of having peaceful protests, even from the Nazis. But this being America, it makes the issue more complicated.

But I maintain that discussion and the rule of law is the best way to fight these monsters. Only when there are no other choices should the path to violence be taken.
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Old 8th May 2019, 05:01 AM   #750
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
It's odd. They defend using this sort of violence because it's not actually hurting anyone, and at the same time tell us that it's vital that we do this to stop the Nazis from taking power.

There's really no logic to it.


I think it's the logic of the vigilante.

- It's okay for me to operate outside the law because I am infallible and will only operate for the greater good. Others, more fallible than I are not allowed because they lack my good judgement.
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Old 8th May 2019, 05:01 AM   #751
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
It's odd. They defend using this sort of violence because it's not actually hurting anyone, and at the same time tell us that it's vital that we do this to stop the Nazis from taking power.

There's really no logic to it.
I guess you don't have a quotation for that, do you?!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th May 2019, 05:05 AM   #752
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
But I maintain that discussion and the rule of law is the best way to fight these monsters.
... since it worked so well in the Weimar Republic ...
Do you actually have a single argument that you could use against "these monsters"?
(And how did they suddenly become monsters? You really don't know anything about Nazis.)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th May 2019, 05:06 AM   #753
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Yes, that was exactly how you said it started
I said exactly what I said above: the regime started with violence, not the party.

Quote:
Whenever you say that Nazis are just human beings
I NEVER SAID THAT.

Quote:
Yes, and why would you start talking about humans when what we're talking about is Nazis?
To warn you about the consequences of the actions you champion. Humans have a tendency to do terrible things when they're in a violent environment, and you're actively telling us that this is where you want the US to go.

Quote:
I do. That's how I counter yours. You didn't notice?!
I notice you have a tendency to counter arguments I don't make. Another disciple to the ponderingturtle school of debate.

Quote:
Why would I be out there killing Nazis???!
You're the one implying that they are a clear and present threat to our very civilisation. How can you not act at once? Well, because you don't actually believe what you claim.

Quote:
I'm so simple-minded that I recognize when somebody is 1) trying to make Nazis look good by abstracting from everything that characterizes them as Nazis, and 2) painting egging of Nazis as a crime against humanity.
NOBODY is trying to make Nazis look good. You're proving my point! You're hallucinating a defense of Nazis that no one has made, because you can't keep two thoughts in your head at once. You can be against Nazis AND against vigilantism!

Also, NOBODY called throwing eggs a crime against humanity. You made that up, AGAIN. I mean, if you can't even get a single argument of your opponent's correctly, what discussion is there to be had?
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Old 8th May 2019, 05:06 AM   #754
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Yeah, that's my rub too. I never really see how these lawless actions actually accomplish the goal of hindering these right-wing groups.

This egging case is an exception to the general trend of these groups, because this loser with the flag was out by himself in a very vulnerable way. So yes, egging him may dissuade him from doing it again.

But generally speaking, the neo-nazi/alt-right types have already adapted to being targeted for violence by assembling in groups, arming and armoring themselves for street fights, and engaging in counter-action against the antifa types.

It's a bit of twisted logic. Antifa can only really be effective against Nazis that are too disorganized and weak to effectively mount a defense (say, like a lone nut on the sidewalk). The alt-right types that are actually a threat are too well organized and too well supported to be quashed in such a manner.

Antifa can snatch the low hanging fruit, but I don't really see how they are going to be effective against the Nazis that are the real danger.
Yep it is never the white supremacists who get the blame if they attack or are attacked it is always the antifa, this is why all protest of white supremacy, which apparently doesn't exist anyway, is pointless and fruitless. I mean if you show up to counter protest and are ready to be attacked you are undermining the rule of law and if you don't and get attacked anyway you are still blamed.

There simply is no moral way to confront or counter these white supremacists protests.
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Old 8th May 2019, 05:09 AM   #755
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
... since it worked so well in the Weimar Republic ...
Do you actually have a single argument that you could use against "these monsters"?
(And how did they suddenly become monsters? You really don't know anything about Nazis.)
Do you have an argument that assaulting people with eggs does?
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Old 8th May 2019, 05:10 AM   #756
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I think it's the logic of the vigilante.
And of course by extenstion any counter protests are of course also the actions of vigilantes and immoral as well. Counter protests are really only ok when they are done by people like this totally not a nazi, no matter what flags they were carrying.

https://couriernews.com/Content/Defa...st/-3/83/55078

"A group of White Nationalists carried Nazi flags and shouted racial slurs throughout Sunday's March of Remembrance, an event designed to honor survivors and those who died in the Holocaust at the Depot Park in downtown Russellville."
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Old 8th May 2019, 05:11 AM   #757
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
I guess you don't have a quotation for that, do you?!
I could dig up a few quotes from uke2se but I'm too lazy to look it up.

But if you don't think it's vital to be violent against Nazis, why are you saying things like this:

Originally Posted by dann View Post
Nobody said it was not a calculated risk. They know what Nazis are capable of. That's why they egg them.
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Clearly we need to wait until Nazis establish a new expansive, oppressive, genocidal regime once again before doing anything to resist them again.
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Yes, not stamping on Nazis hard leads to genocide.
? Clealy some of you, including yourself, view them as a clear and present danger, and view violence as the only way to stop them.

Originally Posted by dann View Post
... since it worked so well in the Weimar Republic ...
Do you actually have a single argument that you could use against "these monsters"?
(And how did they suddenly become monsters? You really don't know anything about Nazis.)
Right back at you. You have no idea how they came to power and why.
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Old 8th May 2019, 05:12 AM   #758
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yep it is never the white supremacists who get the blame if they attack or are attacked it is always the antifa, this is why all protest of white supremacy, which apparently doesn't exist anyway, is pointless and fruitless. I mean if you show up to counter protest and are ready to be attacked you are undermining the rule of law and if you don't and get attacked anyway you are still blamed.

There simply is no moral way to confront or counter these white supremacists protests.
This is patently untrue

It is just that the egging tends to get more airplay, as it is more dramatic.

Especially when the person being egged turns out to be not a Nazi or they get punched for doing it.
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Old 8th May 2019, 05:26 AM   #759
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This is brilliant because it so clearly demonstrates Belz's way thinking:

Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I could dig up a few quotes from uke2se but I'm too lazy to look it up.


But if you don't think it's vital to be violent against Nazis, why are you saying things like this:

I would if I could, but I won't so instead I have some quotations for you (from myself, Checkmite and Captain_Swoop) that I can pretend say the things I imagine that they say even though they don't.

Quote:
? Clealy some of you, including yourself, view them as a clear and present danger, and view violence as the only way to stop them.

Clearly?! Really? Analyze very carefully, Belz! What exactly made you think so? Where are your quotations to show that?

Quote:
Right back at you. You have no idea how they came to power and why.

I already told you: They didn't start as a result of escalating vigilante violence. That version of history is absurd. The Nazis were very organized. They were a political party, one of many, and they managed to persuade some of their not-too-bright opponents that that's all they were, and they defeated them in elections. They were first and foremost nationalists, German patriots, who wanted to make Germany great again. And they came up with an explanation for Germany's defeat in WWI: the foreign elements, the ones who don't belong here, the parasites who are only out to exploit this otherwise great nation of ours. Which, of course, made the solution pretty obvious.
Nowadays they're called Mexicans or Muslims, preferably both, even though that's definitely a Norse of a different color ....
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 8th May 2019 at 05:36 AM.
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Old 8th May 2019, 05:35 AM   #760
dann
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
II NEVER SAID THAT.

Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Here's the problem: humans are capable of those things, Nazi or not. But you know how it starts? Vigilantism and political violence, the very thing you're advocating.

This same paragraph, by the way, is also where your genesis story of National Socialism begins: "Vigilantism and politcal violence. Later on, you then pretend that you were talking about a "regime", which is obviously a completely different story, but it only goes to show that you seem incapable of understanding what Nazis are as long as they haven't yet taken control of the state apparatus. They're a kind of endangered species whose rights to spread their propaganda should be protected at all costs.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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