|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
2nd May 2019, 06:07 PM | #81 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
Sure, sure. Hey, a slap doesn't cause pain or injury either. You know, just a little punch doesn't do any real damage...especially if it's in only one eye. One step at a time. You already made the leap that anyone who is a mousy little white supremacist like the OP clown is literally Hitler and wants to gas and murder millions. And so you've taken that all-important first step of rationalizing petty assault. Good for you. The next hurdle is a little tougher, though. It's the one where you have to be honest about it and OWN THAT ****.
There's nothing inconsistent with your reasoning. It's just dishonest. |
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
2nd May 2019, 06:11 PM | #82 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
Yes. They are not brownshirts. Swastikas are a symbol of white power punks. Hell, Miki Dora wore one, as a lot of people do for their shock value. These guys are not the gassing reich nazis. They're just white guys with penis problems. Don't make them so much more than they are. They're just losers.
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
2nd May 2019, 06:27 PM | #83 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 7,706
|
Yeah political violence is very nice and fun when it's against people you happen to disagree with, isn't it?
The mature way to express disapproval of one's political opponents is with words, certainly not with punches or eggs. Then you'd be acting like a thug and we don't need to encourage thuggery, even if it's against "acceptable victims". |
__________________
We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann |
|
2nd May 2019, 06:32 PM | #84 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,431
|
|
2nd May 2019, 06:34 PM | #85 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,431
|
|
2nd May 2019, 06:43 PM | #86 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
2nd May 2019, 06:55 PM | #87 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,431
|
It makes him a person who is emboldened to wear the symbols of white supremacy inspired genocide. White supremacy is an idea that has been fertilised and emboldened. This individual may not pose a danger* but it is from this ground that the nuts with the guns spring. This kind of hate should not be normalised.
* Your judgment of his potential only passes muster on the laws of probability for this type. You have no idea what he is capable of but he does share some of the ideology of white supremacy terrorists. |
2nd May 2019, 06:56 PM | #88 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,624
|
Thermal, you said it in a previous post - rationalizing. This thread is a perfect example of it.
Man injured by egging is "grateful" egg didn't hit daughter https://ktvl.com/news/local/man-inju...t-hit-daughter
Quote:
Pretty soon it'll be okay for conservatives to get egged because, well everyone says Trump is a Nazi so anyone who votes for him is a legit target. Pathetic display here folks. Way too much emotion and asterisks, not enough actual thought. |
__________________
Why bother? |
|
2nd May 2019, 07:02 PM | #89 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,431
|
|
2nd May 2019, 07:34 PM | #90 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
Agreed. Not normalized, not accepted. Openly ridicule him. Debate him like the people in the vid if you want to waste some time. What I am saying is that justifying assault is a big step; logically, legally, and morally. You want to take that step? Vaya con dios. But you've stepped to the other side of decency. Own it, without excuses, is all I ask.
Quote:
I don't think I'm relying on probability, here. I'm relying on observation. The guy was a chatterbox, not a skull crusher. Trying to intellectualize his position. You'll note that in the video, he just talked and argued. He threatened no one. He assaulted no one...till he was hit, then he went after the guy who did it (with premeditation). Can't blame him there. But face facts on this one: slimy though his views might be, his actions were peaceful. But he was the victim. And posters here are cheering. |
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
2nd May 2019, 07:38 PM | #91 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,108
|
|
2nd May 2019, 07:38 PM | #92 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,431
|
|
2nd May 2019, 07:44 PM | #93 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,431
|
You may argue that egging someone is an act of violence however the intention is not to cause physical harm but rather humiliation to the victim.
|
2nd May 2019, 07:48 PM | #94 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
Well, that didn't take long, did it? Couple eggs on tv and here we are already. I wonder how our brave eggers are feeling about their newyuck-yuck non-violent protesting technique?
Quote:
Quote:
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
2nd May 2019, 07:55 PM | #95 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
I think I'm being perfectly honest, and expecting others to reply in kind. I don't find this rationalizing of assault (while simultaneously claiming moral high ground) particularly honest. If it's not coming across that way, I apologize for lack of clarity.
(eta: regarding your hilite, please excuse my hyperbole. i'm prone to it) One can argue that. One could argue the same thing about a pimp slap, or pantsing, or a host of other minor assaults to someone's person. But the line has always been between talk and action against another. Posters here have slid over that line. Is it fair to sound the alarm in the hopes that some might think 'as good as it might feel, it's still wrong to do this'? |
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
2nd May 2019, 08:03 PM | #96 | |||
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,431
|
Back of the head as demonstrated in this current example seems a fairly safe technique. However as throw distance is increased so does the risk of the target turning and eye damage. Perhaps the safest approach is crushing the egg directly on the head using your palm as a young protester did against Australian white supremist politician Fraser Anning.
However white supremists, who seem to offen suffer from self esteem issues, will take this badly and more easily strike back at close-range assaults on their dignity. |
|||
2nd May 2019, 08:08 PM | #97 | |||
Skepticifimisticalationist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 28,589
|
What? Yes it does. Causing pain is the entire point of striking someone by hand. This is the silliest analogy I've seen you make yet.
Tell me none of these people are experiencing pain:
|
|||
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 |
||||
2nd May 2019, 08:10 PM | #98 |
Skepticifimisticalationist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 28,589
|
No Nazis thus far have been "egged in the face at full force".
Obviously any object thrown from a moving vehicle presents a danger of injury, including things that would not otherwise injure someone when tossed by hand without that much momentum - such as an egg. Certainly I do not condone throwing any object at anyone from a moving vehicle - or people on foot throwing an object into a moving vehicle, as this produces the same force multiplication against the vehicle occupants. |
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 |
|
2nd May 2019, 08:13 PM | #99 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 20,571
|
I've said before and I'll say it again. Those who claim Bush/Trump/insert politician here are Nazis are not minimizing the evil of the real (1930s-1940s) Nazis, or trying to maximize the supposed evil of the politicians they hate. They are trying to puff themselves up into the equivalent of the White Rose Society back in Nazi Germany (who were beheaded for their efforts). So too it is with the antifa clowns and those who talk bravely about how they'd punch a Nazi on the street.
It's pathetic, really, almost as pathetic as the current crop of Nazi wannabes. |
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog. |
|
2nd May 2019, 08:15 PM | #100 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
2nd May 2019, 08:15 PM | #101 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,431
|
|
2nd May 2019, 08:18 PM | #102 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
2nd May 2019, 08:18 PM | #103 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,431
|
|
2nd May 2019, 08:22 PM | #104 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
2nd May 2019, 08:22 PM | #105 |
Skepticifimisticalationist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 28,589
|
Addressed in my last post.
If while looking at the video of the egging posted in this thread, and the one of the Australian politician, you want to sit there and assert the recipients of those eggs were in any danger of an injury like the one in that article, you have an awful lot of nerve proclaiming indignation at anyone else's dishonesty. |
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 |
|
2nd May 2019, 08:23 PM | #106 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,431
|
|
2nd May 2019, 08:26 PM | #107 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,838
|
|
__________________
"Such reports are usually based on the sighting of something the sighters cannot explain and that they (or someone else on their behalf) explain as representing an interstellar spaceship-often by saying "But what else can it be?" as though thier own ignorance is a decisive factor." Isaac Asimov |
|
2nd May 2019, 08:32 PM | #108 | |||
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,431
|
It can be done in a way that minimises risk and retains the humiliation value.
How about this milkshake attack on a *Nazi?
A full risk assessment would certainly factor in the straw and the risk of eye damage. * ETA: More accurately- Islamophobe |
|||
2nd May 2019, 08:33 PM | #109 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
Ok: a kid thinks I'm a proud boy or something because I'm wearing a white polo that my wife make me wear. Slaps an egg on my head from behind me. If I feel something hard and sharp break on my head, and feel liquid running, I'm not stopping to analyze any further. I'm assuming a bottle was broken over my head. The kid is getting at least his fingers broken if they are still in reach.
That's not such a far-fetched scenario. There were some antifa in (I think) Oregon who attacked the wrong guy a while back. Assault, even if you think it is a yuk, is a potentially serious game, that our brave eggers may not be ready to play out. The most dangerous kind of assault is a half-assed one. your victim may not respond half-assed. |
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
2nd May 2019, 08:33 PM | #110 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,431
|
|
2nd May 2019, 08:36 PM | #111 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,431
|
|
2nd May 2019, 08:43 PM | #112 |
Skepticifimisticalationist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 28,589
|
Have you ever had an egg slapped on the back of your head by someone?
I have. When I was 8. I heard it crack, but I didn't feel the egg. I didn't feel anything sharp, or hard. I didn't even know that it was anything but a slap until I saw the shell pieces and egg white drizzling onto my shoulders. You're not going to mistake it for a bottle unless you're an idiot. And you're not. |
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 |
|
2nd May 2019, 08:46 PM | #113 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,431
|
|
2nd May 2019, 08:48 PM | #114 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
Lamely, yes.
You proposed a high-speed truck-launched booster egg. No. Eggshells are sharp and will cut an eyeball even without your theorized turbo boost. This is not freaking rocket science. Also, you didn't address the question. I asked you if you thought it might hurt to get an egg thrown in your eye that cut it up. I think it would, even without your ninja truck launcher hypothesis. Getting hit with sharp things in the eye hurts. It's not a yuk-em-up joke. I can't believe I am explaining this to an adult.
Quote:
What I am asking you, Checkmite....is whether you realize that even minor assaults can go very wrong and should not be so heartily endorsed as appropriate as you are doing. I'd love to sit here and laugh about it. But watching the vid you posted got me thinking about how badly these things can go and how quickly. Your glib cheering should be reserved for actions taken which are not actual crimes. Or if you want to cheer them anyway, own it. You're switching teams. |
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
2nd May 2019, 08:49 PM | #115 |
Skepticifimisticalationist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 28,589
|
|
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 |
|
2nd May 2019, 08:57 PM | #116 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
(Off topic but relevant: when the white polo thing first became widely known, my wife had already bought me a Tommy Hilfinger white polo to wear for a matching-outfit group family picture while we were on vacation. Everyone was wearing blue pants and white shirts. I switched to a white t-shirt and she is pissed to this day)
Quote:
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
2nd May 2019, 09:03 PM | #117 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
In fairness, yes, I have been in full-on egg fights when I was little. I'm older now, and crankier, and a hell of a lot more likely to hit if caught off guard. Without stopping to scrutinize who has attacked me. A lot of us are like this. Old dogs who bite faster than puppies.
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
2nd May 2019, 09:04 PM | #118 |
Skepticifimisticalationist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 28,589
|
Do you genuinely believe I'm incapable of analyzing incidents on a case-by-case basis; of realizing that a "prank" can be mild and funny and harmless when done this way, but not that way? That if I am okay with someone cracking an egg over a Nazi's head as a means of mocking him in these instances, that means I must endorse absolutely anything that anyone could ever possibly do with an egg, no matter how "badly" it goes? Do you not believe in the existence of nuance at all, or do you just think I'm not intelligent enough to discern it and need to be "taught" about it?
No. I don't think laughing about what the fellow did in that video means it would be hypocritical of me to condemn someone for risking serious injury by forcefully pitching an egg into someone's eye-socket. I can do both with a clear conscience. Slide-tackle = good; tripping or spiking someone's shin = bad. |
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 |
|
2nd May 2019, 09:05 PM | #119 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
2nd May 2019, 09:09 PM | #120 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,431
|
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|