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Old 11th June 2019, 03:18 AM   #4081
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Antarctic Fossil Questions

Quote:
From a catastrophist point of view, there are many questions raised by the Antarctic forest. How accurate is the system by which the trees were dated? Was late Permian really 260 million years ago? Geologists consider this figure accurate, along with the "known" age of the Earth. And it's all backed by absolute radiometric dating techniques. Fifty years ago, they were equally confident of a different age, and another age fifty years before that. But this time they're sure they've got it right.



Like I said best guesstimate based on a general consensus.
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Old 11th June 2019, 03:40 AM   #4082
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Antarctic Fossil Questions

Quote:
From a catastrophist point of view, there are many questions raised by the Antarctic forest. How accurate is the system by which the trees were dated? Was late Permian really 260 million years ago? Geologists consider this figure accurate, along with the "known" age of the Earth. And it's all backed by absolute radiometric dating techniques. Fifty years ago, they were equally confident of a different age, and another age fifty years before that. But this time they're sure they've got it right.



Like I said best guesstimate based on a general consensus.
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Old 11th June 2019, 03:41 AM   #4083
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
Rosetta’s Ancient Comet



Some reality for Sol88 to go nuts about !
Quote:
The surface itself is very dark, very hard, very dry (lacking much water ice), and rich in organic compounds.
Quote:
The comet’s releases of gas and dust must originate at or near the nucleus’ surface. Yet despite all of the changes we witnessed, we had difficulty locating active areas or exposed ices on the surface of the nucleus. On rare occasions, the VIRTIS instrument detected patches of water and carbon dioxide frost on the dawn side of the nucleus.
Quote:
However, unlike meteorites, 67P’s dust contained silicate (rocky) minerals without any water in their crystal structures. The lack of water in 67P’s mineral particles is evidence that the comet has never been part of a larger object containing liquid water.
Wonder were the “volatiles” come from...


Awesome cheers mate
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Old 11th June 2019, 04:02 AM   #4084
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The Electric Comet Theory Part IV/SAFIRE

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Like I said best guesstimate based on a general consensus.
What were the confidence bars then, and by how much were they exceeded by later measurements, and what are the confidence bars now?

What measurements have the "scientists" at Thunderdolts made, and with what confidence?
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Old 11th June 2019, 04:40 AM   #4085
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Long long time ago far far away...
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Old 11th June 2019, 04:47 AM   #4086
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
What were the confidence bars then, and by how much were they exceeded by later measurements, and what are the confidence bars now?

What measurements have the "scientists" at Thunderdolts made, and with what confidence?

Hey why were at it, should we ask reality check the same for his nebular lightning?

How big? How much current? So on and so forth...

You know, just to round it out.
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Old 11th June 2019, 06:18 AM   #4087
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Hey why were at it, should we ask reality check the same for his nebular lightning?



How big? How much current? So on and so forth...



You know, just to round it out.
Please do, but do not forget to find the figures for the late Permian. I'll bet they do not fit well with EU no matter what figures you find.
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Old 11th June 2019, 07:18 AM   #4088
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Study of mesosiderite zircons suggests Vesta was struck by a very large rock

How’d they guess the age here steenkh?
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Old 11th June 2019, 10:26 AM   #4089
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
I am sure you are aware that they measured the radioactive contents of zircons. How bad do you think the measurements need to be to support your theories?

You certainly have not supported EU by bringing yet another dating paper on the table. Are you so unsure of yourself that you need these evasions?
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Old 11th June 2019, 11:20 AM   #4090
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Antarctic Fossil Questions






Like I said best guesstimate based on a general consensus.

Wrong. And that garbage was no doubt written by a scientifically illiterate Velikovskian fool.
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Old 11th June 2019, 11:21 AM   #4091
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Wonder were the “volatiles” come from...


Awesome cheers mate
Errm, the protoplanetary nebula. SMH.
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Old 11th June 2019, 11:22 AM   #4092
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Hey why were at it, should we ask reality check the same for his nebular lightning?

How big? How much current? So on and so forth...

You know, just to round it out.
It was a consideration only. It seems to have fallen out of favour, due to its unlikelihood.

The importance of experiments: Constraints on chondrule formation models
Desch, S. J. et al. (2012)
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...0.2012.01357.x

Quote:
To conclude, all four models considered here more or less match the nonthermal constraints or at least are not in conflict with them, with a few exceptions. The lightning model appears to be too small in extent, and to invoke too small a pressure, and may be excluded on these grounds........................................... .................................................. ............................................... Although melting by large-scale nebular shocks matches the chondrule thermal histories quite well, melting in the X-wind and by nebular lightning do not. Chondrules in the X-wind environment start too hot, but do not achieve the needed peak temperatures to completely melt. Chondrules melted by nebular lightning cannot cool slowly enough to produce recognizable textures. The constraints on chondrule thermal histories allow us to reject the lightning and X-wind models for chondrule formation. The ability to make such definitive statements rests on the laboratory experiments that constrain the thermal histories of chondrules.
And that is in reference to a model initially proposed by the lead author of that paper!
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Old 11th June 2019, 01:31 PM   #4093
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Thumbs down The usual lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.

Sol88's usual insanity of pathetic parroting from his demented cult.

This is Sol88's and the cult insane delusion that science does not progress. Sol88 has among many other delusions, the delusion that Whipple's 1950's model is the modern model of comets. His cult has among many other delusions, the delusion that radiometric methods are not improved or new data collected.
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Old 11th June 2019, 01:33 PM   #4094
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.

A duplicate of Sol88's usual insanity of pathetic parroting from his demented cult.

Last edited by Reality Check; 11th June 2019 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 11th June 2019, 01:35 PM   #4095
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.

As I predicted, the usual insanity from Sol88 when presented with the real world of comets and what was really found at 67P.

Rosetta’s Ancient Comet
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Old 11th June 2019, 01:37 PM   #4096
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The usual lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.

Pathetic gibberish from Sol88 that may be his new insanity that physics is a fairy story .
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Old 11th June 2019, 01:47 PM   #4097
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
....
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.

Sol88's pathetic ignorance of the real world where this is "The Electric Comet Theory Part IV/SAFIRE " thread.

Sol88's usual insanity.
It is not my nebular lightning theory, it is a scientific theory written by scientists decades ago. There is a thing called the scientific literature which Sol88 and his cult are demented about ! The scientific model of nebular lightning is there.

Chondrule: Formation list mechanism to provides heat for chondrule formation.

Last edited by Reality Check; 11th June 2019 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 11th June 2019, 01:53 PM   #4098
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.

Sol88's usual insanity of derailing form the electric comet insanity with irrelevant questions and insane lies.

Study of mesosiderite zircons suggests Vesta was struck by a very large rock has the dating technique in the study ("high-precision uranium–lead dating of mesosiderite zircons". Sol88's insanity is that the study is 1 click away in the phys.org article.
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Old 11th June 2019, 02:11 PM   #4099
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
It was a consideration only. It seems to have fallen out of favour, due to its unlikelihood.

The importance of experiments: Constraints on chondrule formation models
Desch, S. J. et al. (2012)
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...0.2012.01357.x



And that is in reference to a model initially proposed by the lead author of that paper!
The Generation of Lightning in the Solar Nebula

Quote:
Lightning generation would seem to be more efficient closer to the Sun. If α = 10−4 , lightning easily could be generated out to 3 AU; if α = 10−2 , lightning could take place only within 1 AU. The asteroid belt, the site of the chondrules we observe today, may not be the favored environ- ment for chondrule formation. Chondrule formation closer in (e.g., at 1 AU) might be much more efficient, as lightning bolts would be more frequent and energetic, and could be generated for a greater fraction of the nebula lifetime, due to the increased density there.
Off topic but very interesting.
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Old 11th June 2019, 02:17 PM   #4100
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Exclamation Sol88 shows once again how demented his thunderbolts cult is

Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Wrong. And that garbage was no doubt written by a scientifically illiterate Velikovskian fool.
It is worse than that, jonesdave116. The garbage was written by an unnamed scientifically illiterate "catastrophism" nutcase who thinks his delusions mean that "decay constants have changed". His other insanity is "thunderbolts of the gods actually flew between Earth and other planets" changed those rates. The article from 2005 is close to an ad for Ian Tresman's crackpot CD.

The nutter blatantly lies about the assumptions behind radiometric dating. The "assumptions" are the real world where
  • Earth is an body that interacts with other bodies.
    The Sun exists (solar wind, solar neutrinos)! Other planets exist!
  • There is no evidence that radioactive decay rates change enough to influence radiometric dating.
    Even the "Russian researchers S. E. Schnoll, et al" back in 2000 only found cyclic changes in rates correlated with astronomical cycles.
    This nutter does not know the meaning of "cyclic" and it means that the rates remain the same on longer time scales.
    This nutter thinks that any measured change of rate no matter how small means the rates changed enormously.
We must thank Sol88 for showing once again how demented his thunderbolts cult is when they allow a total nutter to write an article on their web site!
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Old 11th June 2019, 02:24 PM   #4101
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
The Generation of Lightning in the Solar Nebula

Off topic but very interesting.
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.

On topic. Hos post shows that Sol88 asks questions which he can easily answer. That is a January 2000 paper presenting a model with numbers he wanted.

Sol88 emphasizes how demented the thunderbolts cult dogma is - he does not present the numbers from the cult dogma .

Last edited by Reality Check; 11th June 2019 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 11th June 2019, 03:14 PM   #4102
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
The Generation of Lightning in the Solar Nebula



Off topic but very interesting.
That is a 2000 paper by Desch & Cuzzi. The paper I linked and quoted from is from 2012, by Desch et al! He is rejecting his own model.
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Old 11th June 2019, 03:55 PM   #4103
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
That is a 2000 paper by Desch & Cuzzi. The paper I linked and quoted from is from 2012, by Desch et al! He is rejecting his own model.
Sol88 is unaware of this basic sanity within science (test the models and reject them if they are wrong, even if they are your model) because all he knows is dogma from his cult.
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Old 11th June 2019, 07:17 PM   #4104
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
That is a 2000 paper by Desch & Cuzzi. The paper I linked and quoted from is from 2012, by Desch et al! He is rejecting his own model.
He has to of course, otherwise he’d be ostracised.

You MUST tow the party line or your out.

Repeat after me, there are NO electric fields in space because plasma is a perfect conductor. There can be no charge seperation because of this fact.

Except at comet 67P.

Decca’s paper killed the Dirtysnowball.
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Old 11th June 2019, 07:49 PM   #4105
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...ostracised
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.

Sol88's usual insanity with added and massive paranoia.

Last edited by Reality Check; 11th June 2019 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 11th June 2019, 07:53 PM   #4106
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Repeat after me, ...
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.

Sol88's usual insane lies.
Plasma is a conductor, not a perfect conductor.
Electric fields happen in space - any charged particle such as an electron or ion has an electric field .
Charge separation happens in space - there are separated electrons and ions in plasma !

Last edited by Reality Check; 11th June 2019 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 11th June 2019, 08:00 PM   #4107
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Decca’s paper killed the Dirtysnowball.
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.

Sol88's usual insane lies.
The author is Deca.
Deca wrote a mainstream ices and dust comet paper.
Electron and Ion Dynamics of the Solar Wind Interaction with a Weakly Outgassing Comet by Jan Deca, Andrey Divin, Pierre Henri, Anders Eriksson, Stefano Markidis, Vyacheslav Olshevsky, and Mihály Horányi is on a comet weakly outgassing from sublimation producing a coma and the solar wind interacting with that coma.
There is no "Dirtysnowball". There is a currently valid dirty snowball model.

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Old 12th June 2019, 04:36 AM   #4108
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.

Sol88's usual insane lies.
Plasma is a conductor, not a perfect conductor.
Electric fields happen in space - any charged particle such as an electron or ion has an electric field .
Charge separation happens in space - there are separated electrons and ions in plasma !



Does it matter how seperated?



Maybe....
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Old 12th June 2019, 07:03 AM   #4109
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
He has to of course, otherwise he’d be ostracised.

You MUST tow toe the party line or your you're out.

Repeat after me, there are NO electric fields in space because plasma is a perfect conductor. There can be no charge seperation separation because of this fact.

Except at comet 67P.

Decca’s Deca's paper killed the Dirtysnowball.
What a bunch of conspiracist crap! Typical of quasi-religious cranks. He was hardly the first to suggest it, as you'd know if you'd bothered reading the literature, and references therein. You would also know that they are not suggesting such things could happen currently, but only in the mainstream scenario of a protoplanetary disk which is much denser in gas and dust than it currently is. Which the EU clowns don't believe anyway!
And Deca's paper requires, by definition, four fluids. Two are the solar wind electrons and ions, and the other two come from the products of sublimating volatiles. Cometary electrons and ions. Sounds perfectly mainstream to me.
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Old 12th June 2019, 01:35 PM   #4110
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.

Sol88's usual insanity. High school science students know that electric fields change with the separation of the charges producing them !
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Old 13th June 2019, 03:33 AM   #4111
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
What a bunch of conspiracist crap! Typical of quasi-religious cranks. He was hardly the first to suggest it, as you'd know if you'd bothered reading the literature, and references therein. You would also know that they are not suggesting such things could happen currently, but only in the mainstream scenario of a protoplanetary disk which is much denser in gas and dust than it currently is. Which the EU clowns don't believe anyway!
And Deca's paper requires, by definition, four fluids. Two are the solar wind electrons and ions, and the other two come from the products of sublimating volatiles. Cometary electrons and ions. Sounds perfectly mainstream to me.
Good I’m happy for you.

Mainstream electric comet here we come!




All you need is that pesky hiding ice.
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Old 13th June 2019, 04:17 AM   #4112
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Good I’m happy for you.

Mainstream electric comet here we come!




All you need is that pesky hiding ice.
Do you mean the observed ice at 67P? The observed ice at Hale-Bopp? And 17P Holmes? And Catalina? And Hartley 2? Not to mention the thousands of tonnes of it excavated from Tempel 1? That undeniable ice?
You lost. Try again.
In the meantime, explain what the four fluids are that Deca is using in his model. Where are they coming from?
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Old 13th June 2019, 01:47 PM   #4113
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Do you mean the observed ice at 67P? The observed ice at Hale-Bopp? And 17P Holmes? And Catalina? And Hartley 2? Not to mention the thousands of tonnes of it excavated from Tempel 1? That undeniable ice?
You lost. Try again.
In the meantime, explain what the four fluids are that Deca is using in his model. Where are they coming from?
The observed minuscule amount of ice spontaneously formed from water vapour released via the ionisation of the rocky nucleus? That ice?

Well, he missed the charged dust for one. This is a heavy electron fluid.

Quote:
The fundamental physics of charged cometary dust has been studied for a long time (Mendis and Horányi 2013). Dust charging is a delicate interplay between several currents, including electron and ion collection currents from the surrounding plasma, ultraviolet induced photoelectron currents, secondary electron emission (due to energetic ion and/or electron bombardment), thermo-ionic emission, field emission (due to large surface fields), etc. Asaruleofthumb,adustparticle collects about 700 extra electrons per unit particle volumeequivalent radius (measured in µm) and unit electric potential difference between the particle surface and the surrounding plasma (measured in V). This means that in the solar wind a particle of 1 µm size can have about 10^4 extra electrons. Based on our experience with mesospheric dust charging at Earth it can be assumed that most of the extra electrons are deep inside the dust particle and they can electrostatically disrupt fluffy, highly friable dust particles (Hill and Mendis 1981).


Quote:
Fluffy particles carry always an important amount of charge vs. their mass, so that their motion is significantly affected by electric and magnetic fields, confirming the interpretations of striae in dust tails in terms of charged dust (Notni and Tiersch 1987).
Cometary Dust


This is from the EDM(lol) of the hydrated cometary rock.

Quote:
Hence, there is still no indisputable conclusion on the source distribution on the nucleus and the geomorphology of the source. This dramatically reduces our ability to constrain source processes and this is further hindered by the apparent absence of ices directly at the surface.
Decas paper completely ignores this fact and so does jonesdave116, why?

All poor jonesy has left now is a couple antiquated papers from incomplete data that tries to fit that to the wrong model.

Lol indeed.
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Old 13th June 2019, 02:26 PM   #4114
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Thumbs down The usual lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.

Sol88's usual insane lies - astronomers are not demented enough to believe in the electric comet insanity .
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Old 13th June 2019, 02:35 PM   #4115
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
The observed minuscule amount of ice spontaneously formed from water vapour released via the ionisation of the rocky nucleus? That ice?

Well, he missed the charged dust for one. This is a heavy electron fluid.







Cometary Dust


This is from the EDM(lol) of the hydrated cometary rock.



Decas paper completely ignores this fact and so does jonesdave116, why?

All poor jonesy has left now is a couple antiquated papers from incomplete data that tries to fit that to the wrong model.

Lol indeed.
I'm sorry? This is from somebody who believes in impossible woo, doesn't understand Jack about any relevant science, and has, after a decade and a half, presented no model, no mechanisms, no science and no evidence!
Ice is observed, woo boy, get over it. Thousands of tonnes blasted out of a miniscule hole in Tempel 1. That is when any sane person would have seen this EC crap for what it is. Unscientific, mythology-based garbage.
Go learn some science.
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Old 13th June 2019, 02:36 PM   #4116
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Thumbs down The usual lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.

Sol88's usual insanely pathetic delusions and lies.
Deep impact ejected 5 million kg of water from Tempel 1! Tempel 1 is up to 50% water ices.
Persistent insanity about the mainstream Spontaneous formation of nonspherical water ice grains in a plasma environment paper.
His new insane delusion of water from "ionisation of the rocky nucleus".
His usual demented delusion of EDM at comets.

Sol88's insane lies about other posters - we know that the working mainstream comet model is based on thousands of papers as stated over the last 10 years. jonesdave116 has cited dozens of these papers.

Sol88's usual insane lies about science - there is no "wrong model" when we have a working mainstream comet model.

Sol88's usual insane lies about his electric comet insanity which has no model at all !

Last edited by Reality Check; 13th June 2019 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 13th June 2019, 02:39 PM   #4117
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Quote:
This is from the EDM(lol) of the hydrated cometary rock.

Hahahaha! You have to laugh at the lunacy of some of these cranks! They really are little better than creationists. Where is your EDM (lol)? Show me in the magnetometer data. Or shut up. Where are the temperatures to liberate H2O from hydrated minerals? Show me in the VIRTIS and MIRO data. Or shut up. You really haven't got a clue.
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Old 13th June 2019, 02:51 PM   #4118
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Del.
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Old 13th June 2019, 02:56 PM   #4119
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Quote:
All poor jonesy has left now is a couple antiquated papers from incomplete data that tries to fit that to the wrong model.
Wrong, woo boy. What papers? Where are they shown to be in error? Did they see ice or didn't they? Stop lying, and actually present some evidence. Or a mechanism. Or some science. You can't because you are not capable of understanding any of the relevant science. Hence why you have been taken in by a bunch of lying, scientifically illiterate mythologists. I imagine that a complete ignorance of science and maths is a prerequisite for membership of the EU cult. You must fit right in!
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Old 13th June 2019, 05:04 PM   #4120
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
I'm sorry? This is from somebody who believes in impossible woo, doesn't understand Jack about any relevant science, and has, after a decade and a half, presented no model, no mechanisms, no science and no evidence!
Ice is observed, woo boy, get over it. Thousands of tonnes blasted out of a miniscule hole in Tempel 1. That is when any sane person would have seen this EC crap for what it is. Unscientific, mythology-based garbage.
Go learn some science.
Thought so.


Thousands of tonnes, lol... no mechanisms, no science and no evidence double

Quote:
(c) What are comets made of? At the simplest level, a very basic question is whether comets are mostly ice or mostly rock/dirt/refractory material. Whipple’s [2] model of the dirty snowball, the first quantitative model, envisioned cometary nuclei as mostly ice, although our understanding has been evolving more toward mostly rock, particularly for 67P/C-G for which refractory/volatile ratios as high as 6 have been cited [3,4].
A'Hearn really threw you a curve ball mainstream.

You just need a big...
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