ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 28th May 2019, 04:26 PM   #1
Emre_1974tr
Muse
 
Emre_1974tr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 724
Demand evidence

1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- So it is wiser to think that paradise exists.

Last edited by Emre_1974tr; 28th May 2019 at 04:32 PM.
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2019, 04:30 PM   #2
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 20,948
Imagine if we lived on a waterless planet!
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2019, 04:36 PM   #3
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 35,005
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).



2- So it is wiser to think that paradise exists.
People desire things that exist, therefore desire is evidence that a thing exists?
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2019, 04:38 PM   #4
Norman Alexander
Philosopher
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 5,477
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).
No, we don't. It's the other way round. Life evolves to take advantage of the environment. If the Earth had liquid methane oceans, life would probably evolve to drink liquid methane.

Quote:
2- So it is wiser to think that paradise exists.
Wow, you sure jumped a LOT of logical steps there. Such a statement is completely unrelated to the first one. No connection whatsoever.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornetsí nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2019, 04:50 PM   #5
fuelair
Banned
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 58,582
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
No, we don't. It's the other way round. Life evolves to take advantage of the environment. If the Earth had liquid methane oceans, life would probably evolve to drink liquid methane.

Wow, you sure jumped a LOT of logical steps there. Such a statement is completely unrelated to the first one. No connection whatsoever.
Correct but typical of all posts the poster has pooted in these semi-hallowed pages!!!!!!!
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2019, 04:54 PM   #6
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Currently Dismembered
Posts: 7,620
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
No, we don't. It's the other way round. Life evolves to take advantage of the environment. If the Earth had liquid methane oceans, life would probably evolve to drink liquid methane.

Wow, you sure jumped a LOT of logical steps there. Such a statement is completely unrelated to the first one. No connection whatsoever.
Cool. I thought it was just me.
__________________
"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2019, 05:24 PM   #7
Nowhere Man
Thinker
 
Nowhere Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 248
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- So it is wiser to think that paradise exists.


You skipped a step there.

Fred
__________________
Hey, you! "It's" with an apostrophe means "it is" or "it has." "Its" without an apostrophe means "belongs to it."

"For shame, gentlemen, pack your evidence a little better against another time."
-- John Dryden, "The Vindication of The Duke of Guise" 1684
Nowhere Man is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2019, 05:30 PM   #8
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 20,948
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- So it is wiser to think that paradise exists.
Emre, this looks to me like a Frankenstein hybrid of a Said Nursi argument for the existence of paradise and the fine-tuned universe argument for the existence of a creator. This fails utterly as argument for either.
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2019, 05:36 PM   #9
Loss Leader
I would save the receptionist.
Moderator
 
Loss Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,470
"It's amazing!" declared the wine. "This glass is shaped exactly the same way I am! What are the odds?"
__________________
I have the honor to be
Your Obdt. St

L. Leader
Loss Leader is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2019, 05:43 PM   #10
halleyscomet
Philosopher
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 9,705
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).



2- So it is wiser to think that paradise exists.

Oh! Fun game! What else can we conclude exists just because we want it to?

I want Star Trekís green chicks with red hair who lust after humans to be real. Preferably a couple bisexual ones who will convince my wife to be a switch hitter with them.

By your own logic, that means itís wiser to think that they exist. Clearly we need to give NASA more money to build the star ships to send my wife and I to the planet of bisexual green skinned chicks with red hair and a carnal interest in humans.
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!
halleyscomet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2019, 05:45 PM   #11
halleyscomet
Philosopher
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 9,705
Demand evidence

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Emre, this looks to me like a Frankenstein hybrid of a Said Nursi argument for the existence of paradise and the fine-tuned universe argument for the existence of a creator. This fails utterly as argument for either.


But itís GREAT as a basis for Star Trek themed smut. Itís not like Star Trek smut writers need much of an excuse but they always like it when someone throws them a bone.
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!
halleyscomet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2019, 05:50 PM   #12
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 20,948
Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Oh! Fun game! What else can we conclude exists just because we want it to?

I want Star Trek’s green chicks with red hair who lust after humans to be real. Preferably a couple bisexual ones who will convince my wife to be a switch hitter with them.

By your own logic, that means it’s wiser to think that they exist. Clearly we need to give NASA more money to build the star ships to send my wife and I to the planet of bisexual green skinned chicks with red hair and a carnal interest in humans.
Wouldn’t the parallel go:
P1- I want Star Trek’s green chicks with red hair who lust after humans to be real.
P2 They are real

(A whole lot of unstated assumptions.)

C: Paradise exists (with a whole lot of Star Trek green chicks with red hair who lust after humans).

ETA. No, I get your point now. Trump, get Space Force funding for this.
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman

Last edited by Sideroxylon; 28th May 2019 at 05:52 PM.
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2019, 06:02 PM   #13
Emre_1974tr
Muse
 
Emre_1974tr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 724
Originally Posted by Nowhere Man View Post


1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- People want to live in health, happiness and pleasure, blessings forever.

3- So it is wiser to think that Paradise exists.
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2019, 06:10 PM   #14
halleyscomet
Philosopher
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 9,705
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Wouldnít the parallel go:
P1- I want Star Trekís green chicks with red hair who lust after humans to be real.
P2 They are real

(A whole lot of unstated assumptions.)

C: Paradise exists (with a whole lot of Star Trek green chicks with red hair who lust after humans).

ETA. No, I get your point now. Trump, get Space Force funding for this.


SEE! Make love not war!

Lots and lots of love.

Until weíre chafed.

Wait, if weíre in danger of chafing we can just WISH for the perfect moisturizing lube, which means itís only logical that it exists!
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!
halleyscomet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2019, 06:19 PM   #15
halleyscomet
Philosopher
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 9,705
Demand evidence

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).



2- People want to live in health, happiness and pleasure, blessings forever.



3- So it is wiser to think that Paradise exists.


Exactly. Thatís why itís wiser to think space orgies with green-skinned redheads exist.

You want, to paraphrase a philosopher, your ID preserved in an ideal state indefinitely. I want to engage in carnal activities with, well, Iíll stop there. While what I was about to describe is legal in most places the forum does have very clear rules about obscenity.

By the way, before anyone tries to report my posts as off-topic Iíd like to point out that OP has already described paradise as an eternity of consequence-free lust and gluttony in another thread. Weíre BOTH wishing for space sex orgies and are justifying the possibility of them existing with the exact same logic. The primary difference is I know wishing wonít make it so and Iím not eager to die to find out if wishes come true.
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!

Last edited by halleyscomet; 28th May 2019 at 06:29 PM.
halleyscomet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2019, 06:20 PM   #16
Norman Alexander
Philosopher
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 5,477
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- People want to live in health, happiness and pleasure, blessings forever.

3- So it is wiser to think that Paradise exists.
Most sentient creatures want to do this, not just humans.

And adding another completely unrelated step doesn't stop it being an Underpants Gnome argument.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornetsí nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2019, 06:28 PM   #17
halleyscomet
Philosopher
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 9,705
Demand evidence

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Most sentient creatures want to do this, not just humans.



And adding another completely unrelated step doesn't stop it being an Underpants Gnome argument.

I suspect the underpants gnomes were a parody of religious beliefs to begin with.

BTW, You just demonstrated that OP has provided a theological basis for the movie ďAll Dogs Go to Heaven.Ē
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!

Last edited by halleyscomet; 28th May 2019 at 06:32 PM.
halleyscomet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2019, 07:20 PM   #18
MEequalsIxR
Critical Thinker
 
MEequalsIxR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 424
So where's the evidence in the OP? I thought the topic was to demand evidence and all I see is a lack of evidence.
__________________
Never trust anyone in a better mood than you are.

It's a sword they're not meant to safe.
MEequalsIxR is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2019, 11:00 PM   #19
David Mo
Illuminator
 
David Mo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somewhere on the Greenwich meridian
Posts: 3,998
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- People want to live in health, happiness and pleasure, blessings forever.

3- So it is wiser to think that Paradise exists.
I want quite a few things that I don't have (a perfect woman who loves me madly, world peace, etc.) So believing that everything I want exists is not very intelligent. It's a way to clash with reality.
By the way, Christians also believe that God is beyond time and eternal. The idea does not make them panic.
Boethius (480-525): "Eternity, then, is the whole, simultaneous and perfect possession of boundless life"
Thomas Aquinas (1224-1274): “Eternity is simultaneously whole, while time is not, eternity measuring abiding existence and time measuring change… the primary intrinsic difference of time from eternity is that eternity exists as a simultaneous whole and time does not“ .

Last edited by David Mo; 28th May 2019 at 11:17 PM.
David Mo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th May 2019, 04:27 AM   #20
Loss Leader
I would save the receptionist.
Moderator
 
Loss Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,470
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- People want to live in health, happiness and pleasure, blessings forever.

3- So it is wiser to think that Paradise exists.

You've added a step and somehow made your argument worse.
__________________
I have the honor to be
Your Obdt. St

L. Leader
Loss Leader is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th May 2019, 04:41 AM   #21
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 20,948
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- People want to live in health, happiness and pleasure, blessings forever.

3- So it is wiser to think that Paradise exists.
This part is Nursi, isn’t it.
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th May 2019, 04:47 AM   #22
Myriad
Hyperthetical
 
Myriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: A pocket paradise between the sewage treatment plant and the railroad
Posts: 14,951
"Paradise is exactly like where you are right now. Only much much better." - Laurie Anderson
__________________
A zÝmbie once bit my sister...
Myriad is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th May 2019, 05:06 AM   #23
Myriad
Hyperthetical
 
Myriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: A pocket paradise between the sewage treatment plant and the railroad
Posts: 14,951
What happens to rats or mice when they live in an environment free from disease, hunger, discomfort, and danger? In health, happiness, and pleasure forever? The experiment's been done.
__________________
A zÝmbie once bit my sister...
Myriad is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th May 2019, 05:14 AM   #24
halleyscomet
Philosopher
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 9,705
Originally Posted by MEequalsIxR View Post
So where's the evidence in the OP? I thought the topic was to demand evidence and all I see is a lack of evidence.
The "evidence" is literally wishful thinking.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Emre_1974tr is arguing for a supernatural posthumous perpetuation of his ID based on an extreme interpretation of "The Secret"
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!
halleyscomet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th May 2019, 05:22 AM   #25
Emre_1974tr
Muse
 
Emre_1974tr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 724
No, "Secret book" defends pagan thought / brain power absurdity.

There is no thought power in my sentences. I'm showing the opposite.
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th May 2019, 05:25 AM   #26
Senex
Philosopher
 
Senex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: School for Rumpology, CT
Posts: 5,774
Originally Posted by Nowhere Man View Post
That makes no sense without seeing the full power point presentation.


YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Senex is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th May 2019, 05:29 AM   #27
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 20,948
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, "Secret book" defends pagan thought / brain power absurdity.

There is no thought power in my sentences. I'm showing the opposite.
Bu ne demek ya?
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th May 2019, 05:29 AM   #28
Emre_1974tr
Muse
 
Emre_1974tr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 724
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, "Secret book" defends pagan thought / brain power absurdity.

There is no thought power in my sentences. I'm showing the opposite.

It will be more accurate if the word "desire" instead of the "demand" word.
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th May 2019, 05:58 AM   #29
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Currently Dismembered
Posts: 7,620
OP, saying that good things come to people who want them does not mean good things materialize to people who envision them. This is like Pascals Wager on meth.
__________________
"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th May 2019, 06:04 AM   #30
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 20,948
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, "Secret book" defends pagan thought / brain power absurdity.

There is no thought power in my sentences. I'm showing the opposite.
I get the reference now (prompted by Thermal)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_(book)

Now, I recognised that is not what you were saying because I had seen part of this made by Nursi who may well have gotten it from someone like Al-Ghazali. As I understand it, the argument addresses people who already believe in a beneficent God.

There is a god who is beneficent/merciful towards human beings.
We have a deep desire for eternal life.
It would be incompatible with these traits of God’s to deny us this desire.
Therefore a realm of eternal existence exists.
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman

Last edited by Sideroxylon; 29th May 2019 at 06:17 AM.
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th May 2019, 06:06 AM   #31
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 82,311
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- So it is wiser to think that paradise exists.
A nonsensical nonsequitur. A rare beast, and one that clearly needs no water to subsist.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th May 2019, 06:40 AM   #32
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 20,948
Also similar to Descartes proof of an external world.

Very briefly with a lot of stuff missing from what was quite a gallop anyway.:
I exist
A perfect God exists.
Deception would be incompatible with this idea of perfection.
Therefore an external world that correlates to our sense experience exists.
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th May 2019, 06:48 AM   #33
The Greater Fool
Illuminator
 
The Greater Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA, North America, Earth, Sol, Milky Way
Posts: 3,820
"I think, therefore god."
__________________
- "Who is the greater fool? The fool? Or the one arguing with the fool?" [Various; Uknown]
- "The only way to win is not to play." [Tsig quoting 'War Games']
The Greater Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th May 2019, 07:03 AM   #34
Porpoise of Life
Illuminator
 
Porpoise of Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,773
Let's grant you your conclusion Emre...

Now, how about some evidence that it's the Muslim paradise that exists?
People also desired the Elysian Fields, Valhalla, the Christian heaven, heavenly Buddhist and Hindu realms one can reincarnate into, or even complete oneness with everything/ oblivion.

So why your paradise?
And please don't say that it's written in your holy text and that the other ones are fake. Because that's what they all claim.
Porpoise of Life is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th May 2019, 07:09 AM   #35
The Greater Fool
Illuminator
 
The Greater Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA, North America, Earth, Sol, Milky Way
Posts: 3,820
Isn't the OP just a backward, wrong-headed view of the puddle parable?
__________________
- "Who is the greater fool? The fool? Or the one arguing with the fool?" [Various; Uknown]
- "The only way to win is not to play." [Tsig quoting 'War Games']
The Greater Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th May 2019, 07:19 AM   #36
fuelair
Banned
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 58,582
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- So it is wiser to think that paradise exists.
3-Nope, indeed NOPE!!
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th May 2019, 07:22 AM   #37
fuelair
Banned
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 58,582
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, "Secret book" defends pagan thought / brain power absurdity.

There is no thought power in my sentences. I'm showing the opposite.
I fully agree there is no thought power in your sentences. Any of your sentences.
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th May 2019, 07:24 AM   #38
fuelair
Banned
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 58,582
Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
Isn't the OP just a backward, wrong-headed view of the puddle parable?
It's a pee puddle parable...Ö...
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th May 2019, 07:25 AM   #39
Emre_1974tr
Muse
 
Emre_1974tr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 724
Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Let's grant you your conclusion Emre...

Now, how about some evidence that it's the Muslim paradise that exists?
.
Answer is in my sentences:

1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- People want to live in health, happiness and pleasure, blessings forever.

3- So it is wiser to think that Paradise exists.

**************

And what is Paradise in Quran?

43:71 They will be served with golden trays and cups, and they will find everything the self desires and the eyes wish for, and you will abide therein forever.
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th May 2019, 07:29 AM   #40
Porpoise of Life
Illuminator
 
Porpoise of Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,773
You've ignored the rest of my post, and actually my question...
How do you know your paradise is real, and the paradises of others aren't?
And you can't refer to the existence of your religion as evidence, because every religion can do that...
Porpoise of Life is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:41 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.