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Old 7th June 2019, 03:23 AM   #161
Emre_1974tr
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Definition of Superstition
1a : a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation
b : an irrational abject attitude of mind toward the supernatural, nature, or God resulting from superstition
2 : a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary

If Islam prohibits superstitions then it should prohibit all belief in the Supernatural - including miracles and other supernatural occurrences, and claims of beings with supernatural powers. No Heaven or Hell, no divine retribution or intervention, no eternal souls - just a moral code, advice and traditions created and maintained by humans.

I applaud this Islam which eschews superstition, banishes ignorance and fear, and embraces science and rationality. That is the kind of religion I could get behind!
The existence of God and the reality of the Qur'an are always based on evidence.

And superstitions such as Trinity or atheism are forbidden.

And nobody has got ghost according to Quran

http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/2011/...-to-quran.html

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Old 7th June 2019, 04:44 AM   #162
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OK, I'll bite.

What's the evidence for the existence of God?
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Old 7th June 2019, 04:54 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
You're the one who escapes the truth and goes after superstitions like atheism.
You're not going to score points by redefining words. Atheism is the absence of divine superstitions.
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Old 7th June 2019, 04:55 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I understand that people don't want to die. I also get the desire to answer questions. What I don't understand is why anyone thinks goat herders or camel jockeys from thousands of years ago would have the answers.
Because God appeared to them.

Quote:
How does one dismiss evolution, DNA, the geological column, radiometric dating
and its methodological rigor which has led the miracles of the modern world and embrace the fairy tales of brutal societies of people who stoned human beings?
Satanic misdirection.
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Old 7th June 2019, 04:56 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Islam prohibits superstitions.
So stop believing in God, then.

Quote:
The existence of God and the reality of the Qur'an are always based on evidence.
The only "evidence" you've presented is based on a myth.
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Old 7th June 2019, 05:10 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Pork is forbidden. You only have permission to survive.

But there is a different situation in alcoholic beverages and I explained this in my article.
You didn't even read the comment you were replying to. You just saw the the letters P O R K together and replied with a canned response.

I'm not asking you if this is true, I'm stating it as a fact obvious to anyone reading your posts.
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Old 7th June 2019, 05:17 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
You're the one who escapes the truth and goes after superstitions like atheism.
This is a red-letter day everyone. Emre_1974tr has conceded that atheists exist! Emre_1974tr has replied without assuming he's speaking to super-secret Christian Missionaries!!!!!
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Old 7th June 2019, 08:17 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Islam commands only believing in true knowledge based on evidence.

Islam prohibits superstitions.
You said atheism is a superstition. I asked how is simply not beiieving in a god or gods a superstition? Me thinks you don't understand what a superstition is. But I do agree Christian mythology is a superstition.

And why should anyone care what Islam says? Seriously, why should anyone care about the ramblings of an ignorant illiterate pedophile?
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Old 7th June 2019, 08:43 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
This is a red-letter day everyone. Emre_1974tr has conceded that atheists exist! Emre_1974tr has replied without assuming he's speaking to super-secret Christian Missionaries!!!!!
Interesting. Basically, EMRE is a presuppositionalist Muslim.
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Old 7th June 2019, 09:03 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The existence of God and the reality of the Qur'an are always based on evidence.
Then present some.
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Old 7th June 2019, 09:06 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Then present some.
Good luck on that.
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Old 7th June 2019, 09:09 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Good luck on that.
Some questions are asked, not in expectation of an answer, but to highlight the fact that no answer has been given.
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Old 7th June 2019, 09:16 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You said atheism is a superstition. I asked how is simply not beiieving in a god or gods a superstition? why should anyone care about the ramblings of an ignorant illiterate pedophile?
Believing superstitious creation notions is not unique to religious people, for example, multiverse theory, 'net zero', etc. That is if 'superstitious' = 'turtles all the way down'
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Old 7th June 2019, 09:49 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The existence of God and the reality of the Qur'an are always based on evidence.
Supply this evidence. In accordance with your thread title, I demand it.

Quote:
And superstitions such as Trinity or atheism are forbidden.
I consider Allah and the Qur'an superstition, as well as all other formulations of the Abrahamic god. Your job is to prove otherwise. Atheism is defined as the absence of superstition. You keep demonstrating that you don't understand even the most very basic concepts of religion and comparative religions. You're not talking to "Christian missionaries" here no matter how fervently you wish that to be the case.
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Old 7th June 2019, 11:22 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
Believing superstitious creation notions is not unique to religious people, for example, multiverse theory, 'net zero', etc. That is if 'superstitious' = 'turtles all the way down'
I'm not sure thinking that an unproven hypothesis is true constitutes a superstition. Those are simply ideas that haven't been proven or disproven. A multi-verse if it exists would not be supernatural.

I don't think even to believe that there could exist a being that created everything (even though I think it is highly unlikely) is a superstition. But to believe you know what that god thinks or wants would be.
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Old 7th June 2019, 11:31 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
You're the one who escapes the truth and goes after superstitions like atheism.
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The existence of God and the reality of the Qur'an are always based on evidence.

And superstitions such as Trinity or atheism are forbidden.

And nobody has got ghost according to Quran

http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/2011/...-to-quran.html
It seems some ideas no matter how incorrect once expressed they're clung to like a dog gripping something in it's mouth no matter how false the idea and how many times it's pointed out.

What do these words all have in common?

Christian
Missionary
Pagan
We
Atheist
Superstition
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Old 7th June 2019, 01:23 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You said atheism is a superstition. I asked how is simply not beiieving in a god or gods a superstition? ?


The existence of God is based on definitive evidence. Science, reason, our experiences, the verses within us and everything show that God exists and is one.

That is why we are obliged to believe this fact. We are being asked to pursue evidence-based real information.

Atheism is a superstition that is blindly believed.
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Old 7th June 2019, 01:27 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The existence of God is based on definitive evidence. Science, reason...
No. You've produced no science or reason to demonstrate the existence of God or the factual validity of the Qur'an.

Quote:
...our experiences, the verses within us and everything show that God exists and is one.
No. The warm fuzzy feelings you feel when you think of God are not science or evidence.

Quote:
That is why we are obliged to believe this fact. We are being asked to pursue evidence-based real information.
You don't seem to know what a fact is, and you've provided nothing that can be called evidence. I demanded it. You failed.

Quote:
Atheism is a superstition that is blindly believed.
No, that is a definition of religion. You really need to learn what words mean.
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Old 7th June 2019, 01:31 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Well God's an idiot because pork is de-licious!
That reminds me, I must add bacon and sausages to tomorrow's shopping list.
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Old 7th June 2019, 01:33 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The existence of God is based on definitive evidence. Science, reason, our experiences, the verses within us and everything show that God exists and is one.
Really? This seems to be obvious nonsense. Science, reason, and our experiences do not point to any gods at all, and there are no "verses within us".


Quote:
Atheism is a superstition that is blindly believed.
First of all, it cannot be a superstition when it is in complete agreement with science, and there is no credible evidence against it. Secondly, it is not blindly believed, for the same reason. Show credible evidence for the existence of any god, and atheism would be a superstition, blindly believed against the evidence.

You on the other hand blindly believes, and do not go where the evidence is leading. This is amply demonstrated in these threads.
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Old 7th June 2019, 02:35 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Em
Are_1974tr;12719837
The existence of God is based on definitive evidence. Science, reason, our experiences, the verses within us and everything show that God exists and is one.

That is why we are obliged to believe this fact. We are being asked to pursue evidence-based real information.

Quote:
What is the definitive evidence? Feel free to provide it at any time.
QUOTE=Emre_1974tr;12719837


Atheism is a superstition that is blindly believed.
Sorry, but you're wrong. It's not a superstition as there is nothing supernatural or irrational about it. It's also NOT a belief. It is simply not accepting a single claim. That of an imaginary and unproven being that created man and the universe.

I'm an atheist and I treat the existence of a deity exactly how I treat every existential claim. Positive proof is required. I believe in those things that can be proved and don't believe in those things that cannot be proved. I believe that yeast makes bread rise. That the square of two sides of a right angle triangle equal the square of the third. I believe that the earth is spherical and that when one bombards the isotope U235, fission begins. I believe that man and apes share a common ancestor. But there is no obligation to believe things that cannot be proved.

If you tell me there is a tooth fairy, I say prove it.
If you tell me there is a Santa Claus, I say prove it.
If you tell me there is a Loch Ness Monster, I say prove it.
If you tell me there is a Sasquatch, I say prove it.
If you tell me there is a God, I say prove it.

If you can, the rational choice is to believe. But I have NEVER seen even the slightest of proof. As an atheist, I just ask that anyone positing a god to prove it like everything else.

Can you?
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Old 8th June 2019, 02:43 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
Science, reason, and our experiences do not point to any gods at all, and there are no "verses within us".
No, but there are in aubergines:



https://www.islamawareness.net/Mirac...aubergine.html

Eat that, paganatheistchristian missionaries! HAH!
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Old 8th June 2019, 03:48 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Sorry, but you're wrong.

?


No, atheism is completely irrational.

And yet you're wrong, atheism is a belief. It's a superstition.

By the way, everything is faith. For example, even what your name is is your belief.

It is purely evidence-based knowledge that God exists and is one. That is why we are obliged to believe. Because this is real information.

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Old 8th June 2019, 05:03 PM   #184
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Demand evidence

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The existence of God is based on definitive evidence. Science, reason, our experiences, the verses within us and everything show that God exists and is one.
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post

It is purely evidence-based knowledge that God exists and is one. That is why we are obliged to believe. Because this is real information.

Then provide specific examples of this alleged evidence. To date you’ve provided only vague meandering babble to support your mythology.

Where is this evidence you claim to have? Is it hidden in a closet with the Christian Missionaries you claim are running rampant in this thread?
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Old 8th June 2019, 06:24 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, atheism is completely irrational.

And yet you're wrong, atheism is a belief. It's a superstition.

By the way, everything is faith. For example, even what your name is is your belief.

It is purely evidence-based knowledge that God exists and is one. That is why we are obliged to believe. Because this is real information.
Sorry, you're wrong again. Feel free to demonstrate how not accepting a proposition that has liitle or no evidence is irrational. In fact. Nothing could be more rational. Here's the textbook definition of rationality.

ra·tion·al·i·ty
/ˌraSHəˈnalədē/
noun
1. the quality of being based on or in accordance with reason or logic.

Since you keep saying God is evidence based. Tell us what the evidence is. What are God's qualities? Is God a carbon based life form? Where does God live and how old is he/she/it? Is there a Mrs. God? Do they have sex? Who created God? Finally, how do YOU know any of this?

What kind of falsifiable test can we use to prove god exists? If God is real and manifests in reality, we should be able to do this. I'm an atheist because no one seems to be able to offer a falsifiable test. From a logical based epistemology, the only rational approach to any existential claim is to withold belief until this can be done.

BTW, my name is just the label my parents gave me. It is not a belief. As for "faith", it depends on what your definition of the word is. If you mean it means simply trust, I would agree. If, however, you mean it to mean how Jews and Christians define it in Hebrews 11- 1,"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Then no, we disagree.
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Old 8th June 2019, 07:20 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
By the way, everything is faith. For example, even what your name is is your belief.
I'm not sure the member agreement permits me to advise you to seek professional help. But you have absolutely no idea what constitutes knowledge and what constitutes faith.

Quote:
It is purely evidence-based knowledge that God exists and is one.
Yet despite numerous requests, you can't provide any of this evidence.
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Old 8th June 2019, 07:46 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
By the way, everything is faith. For example, even what your name is is your belief.

Well, now you're just playing silly buggers with definitions. If you define "belief" as "anything you think to be true," then yes, my name is a belief.

However, that is NOT how you've been using the word "belief". You've been using it in juxtaposition with knowledge. You even say that you "know" something in the same post where you say one's name is just a belief.

You've been using "knowledge" to mean "a belief backed by evidence and not contradicted by other evidence". Knowledge, then, is an evidence-based belief.

In case you want to actually use the definitions that you personally have been using, one's name is known - it is a belief backed by evidence (birth records, parental information, etc.). You have shown no evidence for the existence of a god. Thus, you have a belief but you have not demonstrated any knowledge.

Atheism is simply a failure to form a belief precisely due to the absence of knowledge. You can dance back and forth between definitions if you feel like arguing that way. However, you're being both inconsistent and misleading.
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Old 8th June 2019, 08:40 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
I'm not sure the member agreement permits me to advise you to seek professional help. But you have absolutely no idea what constitutes knowledge and what constitutes faith.

Yet despite numerous requests, you can't provide any of this evidence.
Emre is not the first theist to hold these kind of positions about atheism. They treat it like a religion. Personally, I hate the word atheist or atheism. There isn't a word for not believing in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, Vampires, Zombies or alien abductions which are all as unproven as every God.

I think Emre expects that atheists face Stockholm and praise Alfred Nobel
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Old 8th June 2019, 10:53 PM   #189
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I've only dipped into this discussion for the first time today, but I'm getting the feeling that this Emre chap you're talking to is actually an AI bot.

OK, maybe that's unfair to someone who is clearly not a native English speaker, but the way he twice said that pork was forbidden after seeing the word in the previous post, even AFTER it was explained to him what a "porky" was is suggestive.
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Old 8th June 2019, 11:15 PM   #190
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Emre, do you believe unicorns exist?
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Old 9th June 2019, 03:18 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
W



You've been using "knowledge" to mean "a belief backed by evidence and not contradicted by other evidence". Knowledge, then, is an evidence-based belief.

.

Yeah, I always say that in my writings.

Knowledge = strong belief based on evidence

Proving something strengthens your faith in it.

But tomorrow, for example, I can show you that your name was taught wrong. Your family has kept your real name from you because of a protection program. If I prove it to you, your old faith will be destroyed. You create a new faith (for example, your name is actually Tarkan).
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Old 9th June 2019, 03:29 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Don't you want to drink water?



Water is a blessing Allah has created for us.
No. that was Uranus and Gaia. Their grandson Neptune is God of the sea (and horses for some reason.)
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Old 9th June 2019, 03:36 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Yeah, I always say that in my writings.

Knowledge = strong belief based on evidence

Proving something strengthens your faith in it.

But tomorrow, for example, I can show you that your name was taught wrong. Your family has kept your real name from you because of a protection program. If I prove it to you, your old faith will be destroyed. You create a new faith (for example, your name is actually Tarkan).
Do you believe unicorns exist?
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Old 9th June 2019, 08:22 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
But tomorrow, for example, I can show you that your name was taught wrong. Your family has kept your real name from you because of a protection program.
No. You're changing the meaning of 'real." They can tell you what your former name was. But if the name you use now is the name they have called you since, the name you use, and the name everyone else uses, then it is your name. This sort of word game doesn't make for operative proofs, but you seem to base most of your proofs on exactly this sort of equivocation.

Another day has come and gone without you being able to supply any of the evidence you say proves the existence of your god so strongly that you can claim atheism is irrational. You titled your thread "Demand evidence." Here I am demanding it, and it's obvious you can't produce it. Even worse, you're trying to play fast and loose with what it means to know or prove something, so I suspect you're softening up the opposition for some word-gamey pseudo-proof of God.
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Old 9th June 2019, 08:22 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
But tomorrow, for example, I can show you that your name was taught wrong. Your family has kept your real name from you because of a protection program. If I prove it to you, your old faith will be destroyed. You create a new faith (for example, your name is actually Tarkan).

Okay, so when tomorrow are you going to provide evidence for the existence of a god?
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Old 9th June 2019, 08:53 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The existence of God is based on definitive evidence.
Where? You've been asked multiple times now.
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Old 9th June 2019, 08:57 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, atheism is completely irrational.
Explain that.

Quote:
And yet you're wrong, atheism is a belief.
A lack of believe cannot be a belief. You're not makig sense.

Quote:
By the way, everything is faith. For example, even what your name is is your belief.
You're confusing arbitrary and faith-based. A name is arbitrary but it exists.

Quote:
It is purely evidence-based knowledge that God exists and is one.
Present said evidence.
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Old 9th June 2019, 09:10 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Proving something strengthens your faith in it.
No, proving something by providing evidence for it converts faith into knowledge. Faith, as commonly used in English, denotes a belief absent evidence -- and, in the case of religious faith, often in flagrant denial of evidence.

You're claiming you can prove the existence of God, with evidence, to the extent that it becomes knowledge, to the extent that denying this evidence -- as you seem to believe atheists do -- could be called irrational. So far all we've seen from you is bluster and tap-dancing.

As Loss Leader notes, atheism is simply the condition of not having formed a particular belief because there is no evidence visible that such a belief should be held. Some go so far as to say the evidence should have long been forthcoming, and -- it having failed to appear -- they can then with some confidence conclude it will probably never appear. Be that as it may, skeptical atheists will certainly conform their beliefs to accommodate evidence that appears. So if you want to engender in a belief in a god among atheists, you must provide the evidence and allow it to be tested.
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Old 9th June 2019, 12:46 PM   #199
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As the saying goes, if not believing in something is a belief, then it is the same as saying not collecting butterflies is a hobby.
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Old 9th June 2019, 03:02 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
As the saying goes, if not believing in something is a belief, then it is the same as saying not collecting butterflies is a hobby.
No, not believing in God is an act of faith in your believing world. So atheism is a belief.

and It's a superstition.
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