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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Allais Effect , Dark Flow , relativity , Theory of Relativity

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Old Yesterday, 08:25 AM   #2641
The Man
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post

I suggest you admin that satellites slows down, and not moves 180° opposite during 1 orbit
Once again I suggest you actually define your 'absolute frame'. Until then you have, well, absolutely no basis to claim what moves how, where, what direction or when in that frame. You have a lot of work to do.
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Old Yesterday, 08:37 AM   #2642
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
This is all additional speed, and this is what matter

Additional to what? If what it is added to doesn't matter then them being "all additional speed" just doesn't matter. Speeds just don't add, velocities add and they add as vectors. Again direction matters particularly when you consider some direction like your DFA to be significant for whatever reason.

Based on your own calculation your probe and the Earth see your same "6,00e-9" (now unit-less) factor. So what exactly again were you going to show with your probe/Earth test?
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Old Yesterday, 09:21 AM   #2643
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Originally Posted by Gamolon View Post
So the speeds you listed below are ADDED to each objects absolute/true speed?
  • Satellite (speed 3.00 kms-1)
  • ISS (speed 7.66 kms-1)
  • Near (speed 12.739 kms-1)
  • Earth or Space probe in the orbit of earth (speed 30.000 kms-1)
Correct, or deducted which have the opposite effect..
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Old Yesterday, 09:24 AM   #2644
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
Then a satellite in orbit around the earth parallel to the 'DFA" will show a difference in acceleration depending, if it moves with the 'DFA' direction it will gain velocity, if it moves against the 'DFA' direction it will loose velocity.

Is that correct?
Yes and time dilation will depend on that
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Old Yesterday, 09:48 AM   #2645
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Correct, or deducted which have the opposite effect..
Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Residual annual and diurnal periodicities of the Pioneer 10 acceleration term can be caused by unexpected annual and diurnal time dilation affecting clocks on earth.
Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Yes and time dilation will depend on that
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Old Yesterday, 09:51 AM   #2646
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Its obviously not, - it is a decelerating effect - an escalating effect, and hence it can't be 400 km per year. You must have dreamed that.
The deceleration is (8.74±1.33)×10−10 m/s2

This means that the probe flies 400km per year shorter than originally calculated.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_anomaly

Hans
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Old Yesterday, 10:18 AM   #2647
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Correct, or deducted which have the opposite effect..
So is absolute speed defined as an object's current speed which is determined by adding together it's previous absolute speed, orbital speed around an object, and.... What else?

Let's use Earth's orbital speed below:[*]Earth or Space probe in the orbit of earth (speed 30.000 kms-1)

How would I determine what it's current absolute speed is right now?

Also, am I right in saying the following?

Let's say I use 360 degrees to describe Earth's orbit around the sun and assigned the 0 degree point to represent when the Earth's orbital speed is at +30 kms-1. That would make the 180 degree point of Earth's orbit -30 kms.

Is that correct so far?
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Old Yesterday, 11:04 AM   #2648
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Yes and time dilation will depend on that
So...
I am very certain that there are satellites in that orientation, as I asked you a few months ago, why isn't this reported?
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Old Yesterday, 11:06 AM   #2649
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
The deceleration is (8.74±1.33)×10−10 m/s2

This means that the probe flies 400km per year shorter than originally calculated.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_anomaly

Hans
Deceleration increment = 30 years * 365 Days * 24 hours * 60 minutes * 60 second ...30*365*24*60*60*8.74e-10.= 0.82687392 meter/s
Average deceleration 0.82687392/2 = 0.41343696 meter/s
Time = 30*365*24*60*60 = 946080000 s.
Distance = (t*average speed) = 946080000s * 0.41343696 meter/s = 391144439 meter ( or 391,144,439 meter)

And today 15 years later it is all much worse, - since 400,000,000 meter was 15 years ago, - one day you could get it in your head, that day give a damn in heat emission

CAPITO ?

Last edited by Bjarne; Yesterday at 11:25 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 11:15 AM   #2650
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
So...
I am very certain that there are satellites in that orientation, as I asked you a few months ago, why isn't this reported?
Maybe it is, maybe not, we have discussed this several time here. The responsible don't like to talk about it, regardless what the cause of anomalies is. There are many reasons for this. Much is also unknown.
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Old Yesterday, 11:22 AM   #2651
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Originally Posted by Gamolon View Post
So is absolute speed defined as an object's current speed which is determined by adding together it's previous absolute speed, orbital speed around an object, and.... What else?
Yes any observer can add or deduct speed to his present true speed. He must off course know the relevant directions.

Quote:
Let's use Earth's orbital speed below:[*]Earth or Space probe in the orbit of earth (speed 30.000 kms-1)
How would I determine what it's current absolute speed is right now?
Only by testing time dilation and whether that is positive or negative. For this purpose you need a reference clock.

Quote:
Also, am I right in saying the following?
Let's say I use 360 degrees to describe Earth's orbit around the sun and assigned the 0 degree point to represent when the Earth's orbital speed is at +30 kms-1.
If these 0° points to the ASAM direction, yes then you true speed increment (relative to the Sun) is +30 kms-1.
180° would be minus 30km/s-1
However notice that 90° and 270° could very well, also be +30 kms-1

Last edited by Bjarne; Yesterday at 11:23 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 11:48 AM   #2652
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
If these 0° points to the ASAM direction, yes then you true speed increment (relative to the Sun) is +30 kms-1.
180° would be minus 30km/s-1
Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
However notice that 90° and 270° could very well, also be +30 kms-1
How can that be if I correctly align my 0 degree/+30 kms and the 180 degree/-30 kms points to the ASAM in the first quote above?

Last edited by Gamolon; Yesterday at 11:50 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 11:51 AM   #2653
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Deceleration increment = 30 years * 365 Days * 24 hours * 60 minutes * 60 second ...30*365*24*60*60*8.74e-10.= 0.82687392 meter/s
Average deceleration 0.82687392/2 = 0.41343696 meter/s
Time = 30*365*24*60*60 = 946080000 s.
Distance = (t*average speed) = 946080000s * 0.41343696 meter/s = 391144439 meter ( or 391,144,439 meter)

And today 15 years later it is all much worse, - since 400,000,000 meter was 15 years ago, - one day you could get it in your head, that day give a damn in heat emission

CAPITO ?
Bjarne, we have no idea what the Pioneer probes do today. But it seems you did the math, for a change. Why didn't you just say that? I notice you used the same figures as the ones you accused me of dreaming.

... And, in the end of the day, it is still a a seventh decimal thing. And, it is still accounted for.

And you forgot to answer why it is the same for both probes.

Hans
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Old Yesterday, 11:54 AM   #2654
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Only by testing time dilation and whether that is positive or negative. For this purpose you need a reference clock.
Ok.

So pick a positive/negative time dilation number as an example and let's use that in our scenario.

What would be a good time dilation number to use?
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Old Yesterday, 11:56 AM   #2655
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
You are told many time, latest it was explained today what it mean , - see above.
If you don't understand ASAM you don't know what we now are discussing. Its not first time you reveal to criticize what you have not understood.

And first you have to understand ASAM, - which direction is ASAM, otherwise your words are meaningless.
Bjarne, it is not my job to disprove your idea. It is your job to prove it.

Quote:
I just have shown why far from all satellites not are ideal, read the post less than ˝ hour ago above
They don't have to be ideal. No effect exists AT ALL.

Quote:
I suggest you admin that satellites slows down, and not moves 180° opposite during 1 orbit
It doesn't matter, as long as we use Earth as reference. And what else would you suggest we use as reference? Do you have any atomic clocks stationed on the sun?

Hans
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Old Yesterday, 12:06 PM   #2656
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Yes any observer can add or deduct speed to his present true speed. He must off course know the relevant directions.


Only by testing time dilation and whether that is positive or negative. For this purpose you need a reference clock.


If these 0° points to the ASAM direction, yes then you true speed increment (relative to the Sun) is +30 kms-1.
180° would be minus 30km/s-1
However notice that 90° and 270° could very well, also be +30 kms-1
All those are unsupported assumptions. You make those claims but have yet to provide any way to actually DO what you claim.



Give us the equations to do what you're claming can be done. Do a sample calculation showing all the data.

Don't waste our time by lobbing out "Lorentz!" like a LARPer throwing foam balls while yelling "Magic Missile!" At this stage we all recognize it as an admission on your part you're out of ways to defend a particular point but can't bring yourself to admit it.

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Old Yesterday, 12:58 PM   #2657
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
If these 0° points to the ASAM direction, yes then you true speed increment (relative to the Sun) is +30 kms-1.
180° would be minus 30km/s-1
However notice that 90° and 270° could very well, also be +30 kms-1
So using the diagram below, what would the kms values be for 90, 270, and 315 degrees?

Last edited by Gamolon; Yesterday at 01:13 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 01:12 PM   #2658
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Only by testing time dilation and whether that is positive or negative.
So let's use the time dilation number YOU came up with?

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
This correspond to a time dilation at 0.0000005 s.
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Old Yesterday, 01:37 PM   #2659
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42.

The universal acceleration is 42.

It doesn't matter what you measure it in. It's always 42.


42
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Old Yesterday, 01:47 PM   #2660
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Thumbs down A deluded lie of "Residual annual and diurnal periodicities" lie

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Residual annual and diurnal periodicities of the Pioneer 10 acceleration term can be caused by unexpected annual and diurnal time dilation affecting clocks on earth.
23 May 2018 Bjarne: A deluded lie of "Residual annual and diurnal periodicities of the Pioneer 10 acceleration" being caused by his imaginary effect.

Deluded because his latest fantasies are that the effects of his theory cannot be detected on Earth. That is basically the subject of this entire thread - his effects can only be detected using off Earth clocks !

22 May 2018 Bjarne: A lie about his theory (no sign of a "Annual and Diurnal time dilation" prediction).

22 May 2018 Bjarne: Repeats his "swept under the carpet by NASA" lie.
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Old Yesterday, 02:02 PM   #2661
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Thumbs down A spate of "failed to confirm the theory" lies

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Lie ...
23 May 2018 Bjarne: A spate of "failed to confirm the theory" lies, e.g. the solved Pioneer anomalies.

23 May 2018 Bjarne: The idiocy that any astronomy mysteries has anything to do with his ignorant delusions.

Black hole and galaxy formation seem to have perhaps still unexplained alignments:
Mysterious Alignment Of Black Holes Puzzles Astronomers
Galaxies may be aligned across 1 billion light-years
Butterfly Nebula mysterious alignment. Have we made any progress with this fascinating enigma?
Impossibly Aligned Galaxies

23 May 2018 Bjarne: A deluded "we almost know NOTHING about kinematic laws of the universe" lie.
Black hole and galaxy formation seem to have perhaps still unexplained alignments,
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Old Yesterday, 02:14 PM   #2662
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Thumbs down A "cow" of a delusion about the Spitzer Space Telescope

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Every cow can see that this telescope is fare from the required position
23 May 2018 Bjarne: A "cow" of a delusion about the Spitzer Space Telescope.
There is no "required position" because all he has is a "1/2 orbit ahead" delusion. The Spitzer Space Telescope is currently about 1/4 of an orbit behind the Earth so all he has to do is give us a calculating of his effects for that position which is unlikely given his other lies of having predictions but:

23 May 2018 Bjarne: Give us your equation for the "MTR and ASAM" effects on the clocks for spacecraft in heliocentric orbit.
This will be the one you used to show that "1/2 orbit ahead" is the only position where the effects are measurable.

22 May 2018 Bjarne: Spitzer Space Telescope ignorance and delusions about testing his theory.
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Old Yesterday, 02:24 PM   #2663
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Thumbs down A fantasy that he can redefine orbit with stupid cartoons

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
It depend how you define "orbit"
23 May 2018 Bjarne: A fantasy that he can redefine orbit with stupid cartoons.
This is an orbit
Quote:
In physics, an orbit is the gravitationally curved trajectory of an object,[1] such as the trajectory of a planet around a star or a natural satellite around a planet.
The Moon is a natural satellite. The Moon is orbiting the Earth. It is the Earth/Moon system that is orbiting the Sun.

The first cartoon is the valid but exaggerated orbit of the Moon around the Earth + the orbit of the Earth around the Sun. Wikipedia has a to-scale Path of Earth and Moon around Sun diagram.

The stupidity is the second cartoon where he has that the Moon never completes an orbit around the Earth ! The cartoon denies that total solar eclipses happen!

The third cartoon is copyright "world-mysteries.com" so from a dubious web site.

Last edited by Reality Check; Yesterday at 02:33 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 02:43 PM   #2664
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Thumbs down Does not recognize a "our solar system is a vortex" crank YouTube video

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
What about this...
23 May 2018 Bjarne: Does not recognize a "our solar system is a vortex" crank YouTube video.
The first text is a statement that the heliocentric model of the Solar System is incorrect !
The planets etc. are observed to orbit the Sun which is the definition of heliocentric. The Sun moves but that is irrelevant.

The video was analysed by astronomer Phil Plait: No, Our Solar System is NOT a “Vortex”
Quote:
However, there’s a problem with it: It’s wrong. And not just superficially; it’s deeply wrong, based on a very wrong premise. While there are some useful visualizations in it, I caution people to take it with a galaxy-sized grain of salt.
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Old Yesterday, 03:00 PM   #2665
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Thumbs down A lie about the probably non-existing Allais Effect which has no direction

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Allais Effect has revealed that an significant force pointing South,...
23 May 2018 Bjarne: A lie about the probably non-existing Allais Effect which has no direction.
This is the past detection of gravitational anomalies in a few eclipses.

23 May 2018 Bjarne: A lie about the debated Dark Flow which is not near "South".
Dark flow may be a "flow of clusters toward a 20-degree patch of sky between the constellations of Centaurus and Vela." Those constellations are visible in the Southern hemisphere and, as far as I can see, closer to the celestial equator then the celestial South pole. At this moment (10 am, 23 May) Centaurus and Vela are just above the horizon in NZ.
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Old Yesterday, 03:05 PM   #2666
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Thumbs down "secret underground scientific community" stupidity about the solved Pioneer anomaly

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
23 May 2018 Bjarne: "secret underground scientific community" stupidity when the solved Pioneer anomaly is common knowledge.

23 May 2018 Bjarne: Lies by citing a 2004 article about the solved by 2012 Pioneer anomaly
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Old Yesterday, 03:21 PM   #2667
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Thumbs down A scientific test now taking place at 3 different satellites satellites

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Yes this is what I believe, and exactly therefore scientific test now taking place at 3 different dedicated satellites.
23 May 2018 Bjarne: A "scientific test now taking place at 3 different dedicated satellites" lie.
Galileo 5 & 6 are GPS satellites that failed to achieve their operational orbits. Their orbits were corrected. Testing General Relativity with the Galileo 5 and 6 navigation satellites was a 2016 proposal to use signals from these non-dedicated GPS satellites because they ended up in eccentric orbits. No evidence that the proposal was ever implemented.

The International Space Station is not dedicated to a single GR experiment !
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Old Yesterday, 04:39 PM   #2668
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
23 May 2018 Bjarne: A "scientific test now taking place at 3 different dedicated satellites" lie.

Galileo 5 & 6 are GPS satellites that failed to achieve their operational orbits. Their orbits were corrected. Testing General Relativity with the Galileo 5 and 6 navigation satellites was a 2016 proposal to use signals from these non-dedicated GPS satellites because they ended up in eccentric orbits. No evidence that the proposal was ever implemented.



The International Space Station is not dedicated to a single GR experiment !


I get the feeling Bjarne still isn’t used to having people face check his claims.
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Old Yesterday, 06:42 PM   #2669
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
I get the feeling Bjarne still isn’t used to having people face check his claims.
First he would have to understand what fact checking means.
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Old Yesterday, 09:12 PM   #2670
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Originally Posted by Gamolon View Post
How can that be if I correctly align my 0 degree/+30 kms and the 180 degree/-30 kms points to the ASAM in the first quote above?
I think you have to read the theory, it answer all such questions
I will be too time consuming telling it all ain
http://pubs.sciepub.com/faac/4/1/1/index.html
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Old Yesterday, 09:15 PM   #2671
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Bjarne, we have no idea what the Pioneer probes do today. But it seems you did the math, for a change. Why didn't you just say that? I notice you used the same figures as the ones you accused me of dreaming.
... And, in the end of the day, it is still a a seventh decimal thing. And, it is still accounted for.
And you forgot to answer why it is the same for both probes.
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Its good you dreamed a correct dream, - there is too much fantasy in the world today, and its getting worse and worse every day, surly because we these decades realizes how little we know, and how narrow our paradigm is.

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Old Yesterday, 09:17 PM   #2672
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Originally Posted by Gamolon View Post
Ok.

So pick a positive/negative time dilation number as an example and let's use that in our scenario.

What would be a good time dilation number to use?
Not understood, properly a wrong question
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Old Yesterday, 09:26 PM   #2673
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Originally Posted by Gamolon View Post
So using the diagram below, what would the kms values be for 90, 270, and 315 degrees?
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...47623d0bb3.gif
Nice and correct drawing
See, let say we today is moving 100.000 km/s 0/360° , and lets say that speed include the speed of the Earth.
Due to that time is already ticking slower.
Therefore you can now move 100.000 km/s opposite and time would thick faster, because such motion will result is zero Additional Sidewards Absolute Motion ( ASAM)

Now if you in addition to that, - would move 90° or 270°, - this as well could very well increase you ASAM, - because that too could very well be addition true motion.

If you would move 30km/s 315° - You will most likely cancel out the positive and negative influence.

This is theory, how it will work "out there" is left to see. - There is A LOT of motion in the universe, - and we can only see the foot of the mountain.

The Universe as well could be moving, - the local cluster and super cluster we belong to also. - There is a lot to learn.....

Last edited by Bjarne; Yesterday at 09:44 PM.
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Old Today, 02:39 AM   #2674
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
I think you have to read the theory, it answer all such questions
I will be too time consuming telling it all ain
http://pubs.sciepub.com/faac/4/1/1/index.html

I hope your day job isn’t teaching. You’re piss-poor at it. Lazy too.

It’s no wonder you are literally the only person on the planet who shares your demonstrably false ideas.
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Old Today, 05:24 AM   #2675
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
See, let say we today is moving 100.000 km/s 0/360°
How does someone determine the other 70 km/s if we are adding 30 km/s to get 100 km/s? What factors need to be added together or taken into consideration to come up with the 70km/s that we are adding 30 km/s to? What formula do you have that someone could use to try and figure this out?

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
, and lets say that speed include the speed of the Earth.
See addition to drawing below that I added in blue. Earth, when at at 0,360 is essentially traveling 30 km/s PERPENDICULAR to the ASAM. Why are we adding it's TOTAL 30 km/s to the ASAM speed to determine Earth's absolute speed?

Last edited by Gamolon; Today at 05:26 AM.
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Old Today, 05:34 AM   #2676
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Not understood, properly a wrong question
You said we needed to add in time dilation as part of our formula to figure out the absolute/true speed of an object. In our example scenario, we are trying to apply this formula to Earth to figure out it's absolute/true speed

So far, the formula contains the orbital speed of earth depending on where is located in its orbit in relation to the ASAM direction. We also need to add in the time dilation. I am using a time dilation at 0.0000005 s, which you supplied here:
Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
This correspond to a time dilation at 0.0000005 s.
So know we have a time dilation of 0.0000005 s and the orbital speed of Earth somewhere between +30 km/s and -30 km/s (which you still haven't provided the formula to figure THAT piece out yet).

So what else needs to be included in your formula in addition to the two terms above to figure out the absolute/true speed of Earth?

Last edited by Gamolon; Today at 05:35 AM.
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