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Old 8th January 2019, 06:25 PM   #1
shoofirbin
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Lawyers' Committee

I've noticed lately some truthers crowing about how some US attorney agreed to submit something to a grand jury or something or other.

I've been vaguely aware of this lawyers' committee for awhile now, mostly through random occasional posts on Youtube and whatnot, but have they actually accomplished something?

My best guess is no, that this is probably something a US attorney is required to do and truthers are alternately exaggerating about the whole thing and/or just flat out getting things wrong, as they are prone to do.

Can anyone shed some light on this? Should I make some popcorn in anticipation of the inevitable pie-in-the-face ending?
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Old 8th January 2019, 07:02 PM   #2
AJM8125
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Originally Posted by shoofirbin View Post
I've noticed lately some truthers crowing about how some US attorney agreed to submit something to a grand jury or something or other.

I've been vaguely aware of this lawyers' committee for awhile now, mostly through random occasional posts on Youtube and whatnot, but have they actually accomplished something?

My best guess is no, that this is probably something a US attorney is required to do and truthers are alternately exaggerating about the whole thing and/or just flat out getting things wrong, as they are prone to do.

Can anyone shed some light on this? Should I make some popcorn in anticipation of the inevitable pie-in-the-face ending?
A link to some of their YouTubes might be helpful.

I realize you can’t post links yet. Just copy the links and delete the “http:\\” part. We can go from there.
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Old 9th January 2019, 12:05 AM   #3
ozeco41
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Originally Posted by shoofirbin View Post
I've noticed lately some truthers crowing about how some US attorney agreed to submit something to a grand jury or something or other.
Has happend.

Originally Posted by shoofirbin View Post
I've been vaguely aware of this lawyers' committee for awhile now, mostly through random occasional posts on Youtube and whatnot, but have they actually accomplished something?

My best guess is no,...
They have collated about 50 long rebutted false claims which they call (legal language) exhibits. And have submitted it to the appropriate department. So far they have received an acknowledgement letter which says the department will follow due process. The truthers are choosing to misrepresent that as an admission that the evidence is accepted and judged worth. Bullcrap. The letter is ONLY the acknowledgement "we got your submission and will deal with it"


Originally Posted by shoofirbin View Post
.... that this is probably something a US attorney is required to do and truthers are alternately exaggerating about the whole thing ...
YES and YES respectively.

Originally Posted by shoofirbin View Post
Can anyone shed some light on this? Should I make some popcorn in anticipation of the inevitable pie-in-the-face ending?
I and many other can give you more details. It is a hot topic on FaceBook but not so on more serious forums such as this one.

Get some popcorn. The predictions are it will get trash canned. The best scenario for the dishonest lawyers is if they get a Grand Jury indictment. Before a real "petit jury" court their claims will get trashed. The amusement for debunkers may come if any of the truth movement "leaders" end up under oath. They will get carved up under cross examination.
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Old 9th January 2019, 08:15 AM   #4
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It likely already has been trashcanned. AE911Truth is basically crowing about having received confirmation from the U.S attorney that the U.S. attorney will comply with applicable law in connection with the submitted petition. What an earth shattering turn of events! AE911Truth has then blatantly lied about what this means, claiming that it means that a grand jury will be empaneled and a new investigation will be started. None of that is required by applicable law. It's actually not even clear under applicable law whether the petition actually has to even be shared with a grand jury at all, but, if the U.S. attorney does decide to present it to a grand jury (which could be an existing grand jury, not a specially empaneled grand jury), the U.S. attorney has full discretion over how and when they do so. For example, the U.S. attorney could provide the petition to the grand jury and tell the grand jury that, in the U.S. attorney's opinion, it is a load of hot garbage (the most likely turn of events if they don't just straight bin it). There is zero obligation under the law for the US attorney or anyone else in the government to conduct any further investigation.

As far as I can tell, the whole thing is just an elaborate way for Richard Gage and some two bit lawyer in Indiana with little to no experience in federal courts to separate Ed Asner from his estate, and, as a bonus, they are hyping up the rubes on lies to separate them from more of their money as well.

How long are the truther rubes going to believe these blatant liars and conmen? It seems many will be gullible till the end.

Last edited by benthamitemetric; 9th January 2019 at 08:25 AM.
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Old 9th January 2019, 08:58 AM   #5
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This gambit wherein there is "evidence" presented which suggests some sort of criminality of a conspiracy of a completely different nature from the officially accepted conspiracy is really shedding light on what drives truthers. What the see or read as "evidence" is not evidence of what they believe it to be.

You can take for example the old.... "free fall is a clear sign that there was a CD." Of course this is false... Truthers believe you need to explode mass out of the way so the mass above drops at FF. This is not false... you kick out the legs of a table and the top falls at FF. Where is one shred of evidence of all the axial structures being exploded out of the way clearing an unimpeded path for descent?

Or the reports of molten steel... and so on and so on... most if not all of the truther observations are simply flawed... and if they are accurate (enough) the interpretation of what they observe is incorrect.

What about the Rodriquez statements that he heard an explosion in the basement before he heard the plane crash onto the top of the tower? Explanation was the explosion in the sub basement was from an electrical short cause by the plane crash which traveled at speed of light to reach the circuit interruption equipment in the sub basement.... and the sound of the plane crash took a second to travel the 1100 feet to the basement.... same time delay people experience with lighting. See and then an instant later here the clap.

How about them dancin' Israelis!

It's not evidence of anything (they infer or state it to be) and it's more of a garbage in garbage out situation. I wouldn't expect much from lawyers informed by people who are ignorant of how the world works (physics and science).
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Old 9th January 2019, 11:05 AM   #6
Mark F
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Could not help but notice they did not wait for the final results of the Hulsey report before filing the petition. I get the impression, and perhaps this is just me, that even Gage and the gang are losing hope in that particular endeavor. Hulsey doesn't seem to come up much anymore.
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Old 9th January 2019, 01:59 PM   #7
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For some background information:

The US court for the Southern District of New York (SDNY) has been designated as the federal court through which all 9/11-related cases are to be routed. This is why the Lawyers' Committee for 911 Inquiry has sent the US Attorney's office for the SDNY their package of "exhibits" along with a "petition" to present to a Grand Jury and investigate formally.

The legal basis for this proceding is 18 U.S.C. § 3332(a)[/url].
Here is the text of US Code 3332:
Originally Posted by US Code
(a) It shall be the duty of each such grand jury impaneled within any judicial district to inquire into offenses against the criminal laws of the United States alleged to have been committed within that district. Such alleged offenses may be brought to the attention of the grand jury by the court or by any attorney appearing on behalf of the United States for the presentation of evidence. Any such attorney receiving information concerning such an alleged offense from any other person shall, if requested by such other person, inform the grand jury of such alleged offense, the identity of such other person, and such attorney’s action or recommendation.

(b) Whenever the district court determines that the volume of business of the special grand jury exceeds the capacity of the grand jury to discharge its obligations, the district court may order an additional special grand jury for that district to be impaneled.
US federal court districts maintain Grand Juries as per § 3331.

As a general rule, it is the US Attorneys', who are assingned to court districts, job to conduct investigations when they hear of alleged federal crimes - and they generally do so with executive discretion, meaning they get to decide which cases to prosecute and which to let go. § 3332 is now intended as a safeguard against US Attorneys willy-nilly letting go crimes which the public has an interest in dealing with, so a US Attorney is indeed required by that law to pass on to a Grand Jury any information concerning an alleged crime that any other person may provide them with. (S)he is required to pass on: The offence, and the identity to the person submitting the information. Additionally, (s)he is to attach her/his own take on the matter.

If it turns out that the existing Grand Jury(s) is/are overloaded with cases, then additional Grand Juries may be empanelled.

Here is what probably happened in the LC911I's case:
  1. Person (Mick Harrison of the LC911I) submits information ("petition"; "exhibits") to US Attorney
  2. US Attorney checks the package, determines it is utter crackpottery, and writes a polite letter of receipt: "We got your package, we'll do what we are required to do."
  3. US Attorney informs sitting Grand Jury: "Person claims WTC was blown up in an explosive demolition. Recommendation: They are whackadoodles, and their claims are silly nonsense. Action: I am not going to waste my time on this, and neither should you."
  4. Grand Jury concurs and nods in yawning silence
  5. Case is dead
LC911I makes a claim on their website which is flat-out wrong:
Sea Change – 9/11 Grand Jury Empaneled
Their reason for this claim is, astonishingly, this:
Originally Posted by LC911I
You want proof? Read the 7 NOV 2018 U.S. Attorney’s letter notifying the Lawyers’ Committee he will comply with the code.
But I quoted the code above already. It says, in pertinent part (b), that the court may empanel an additional Special Grand Jury if it determines that the existing SGJ has too much of a work load. But there is no evidence the court actually made such a determination. In fact, if they (US Attorney + existing GJ) simply trash the petition, no workload is created.
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Old 9th January 2019, 02:50 PM   #8
benthamitemetric
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
For some background information:

The US court for the Southern District of New York (SDNY) has been designated as the federal court through which all 9/11-related cases are to be routed. This is why the Lawyers' Committee for 911 Inquiry has sent the US Attorney's office for the SDNY their package of "exhibits" along with a "petition" to present to a Grand Jury and investigate formally.

The legal basis for this proceding is 18 U.S.C. § 3332(a)[/url].
Here is the text of US Code 3332:

US federal court districts maintain Grand Juries as per § 3331.

As a general rule, it is the US Attorneys', who are assingned to court districts, job to conduct investigations when they hear of alleged federal crimes - and they generally do so with executive discretion, meaning they get to decide which cases to prosecute and which to let go. § 3332 is now intended as a safeguard against US Attorneys willy-nilly letting go crimes which the public has an interest in dealing with, so a US Attorney is indeed required by that law to pass on to a Grand Jury any information concerning an alleged crime that any other person may provide them with. (S)he is required to pass on: The offence, and the identity to the person submitting the information. Additionally, (s)he is to attach her/his own take on the matter.

If it turns out that the existing Grand Jury(s) is/are overloaded with cases, then additional Grand Juries may be empanelled.

Here is what probably happened in the LC911I's case:
  1. Person (Mick Harrison of the LC911I) submits information ("petition"; "exhibits") to US Attorney
  2. US Attorney checks the package, determines it is utter crackpottery, and writes a polite letter of receipt: "We got your package, we'll do what we are required to do."
  3. US Attorney informs sitting Grand Jury: "Person claims WTC was blown up in an explosive demolition. Recommendation: They are whackadoodles, and their claims are silly nonsense. Action: I am not going to waste my time on this, and neither should you."
  4. Grand Jury concurs and nods in yawning silence
  5. Case is dead
LC911I makes a claim on their website which is flat-out wrong:
Sea Change – 9/11 Grand Jury Empaneled
Their reason for this claim is, astonishingly, this:


But I quoted the code above already. It says, in pertinent part (b), that the court may empanel an additional Special Grand Jury if it determines that the existing SGJ has too much of a work load. But there is no evidence the court actually made such a determination. In fact, if they (US Attorney + existing GJ) simply trash the petition, no workload is created.
Great summary.

I think you are right that the prosecutor almost certainly would have to pass the info on to a grand jury per the controlling precedent, which can be found here: https://law.justia.com/cases/federal...7/199/2246901/. (I believe there is a reasonable argument that prosecutors do have some leeway under the law to not pass on completely frivolous allegations, but that hasn't been tested as far as I know, so we can assume a duty to pass it on in this case.) As you say, however, the prosecutor's duty ends with passing the information on and the prosecutor can pass it in on with a recommendation that the grand jury ignore it as crackpottery, which is more than likely what will happen (or has already happened) here.

Any of you truthers ever question why AE911Truth is much more interested in lying shamelessly for marketing purposes than it is in actually taking and completing concrete actions to advance their case?
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Old 10th January 2019, 01:56 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
Could not help but notice they did not wait for the final results of the Hulsey report before filing the petition. I get the impression, and perhaps this is just me, that even Gage and the gang are losing hope in that particular endeavor. Hulsey doesn't seem to come up much anymore.
In their petition, they claim to have independent, lab-conducted research proving the presence of explosives and/or incendiaries in the form of thermate or thermite.
Clearly, they don't need Hulsey or anyone else.

If this grand jury process has always existed, why has it taken them so long to file their petition?
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Old 10th January 2019, 06:54 PM   #10
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Will this one finally be grainual[sic] enough?
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Old 1st July 2019, 03:08 PM   #11
Jaytje46
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Seems there is an update.

https://www.ae911truth.org/news/534-...ury-proceeding

Quote:
Rule 6(e) does in fact impose substantial secrecy requirements on federal grand jury proceedings, although federal courts can order disclosure under certain circumstances. Given that the U.S. Attorney’s Office is reading this rule as preventing any disclosure to the Lawyers’ Committee (and all the petitioners) regarding the status of the Lawyers’ Committee’s petition and amended petition, the Lawyers’ Committee is preparing to file a mandamus petition and a petition for disclosure in federal court prior to the upcoming anniversary of 9/11.

The goal of this federal court filing will be to have the court confirm that the U.S. Attorney’s Office has acted in good faith by presenting the Lawyers’ Committee’s petition, amended petition, and petition supplements with accompanying evidence to a federal Special Grand Jury or to confirm that this has not occurred — and, if the latter, to obtain a court order requiring the U.S. Attorney to present the petition, amended petition, and petition supplements with accompanying evidence to a federal Special Grand Jury.
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Old 1st July 2019, 05:50 PM   #12
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My bet next the Lawyer Committee will be seeking more donations.
Have to have more funds to keep the filings going, right?
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Old 2nd July 2019, 01:17 AM   #13
Oystein
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Quote:
The goal of this federal court filing will be to have the court confirm that the U.S. Attorney’s Office has acted in good faith by presenting the Lawyers’ Committee’s petition...
Exactly that will happen: Confirmation that the U.S. Attorney’s Office has forwarded the Lawyers’ Committee’s petition to a Grand Jury. Nothing more will be confirmed, due to said secrecy requirements.

Obviously, the Grand Jury has duly filed the petition in the round file.
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