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Tags Consensus 9/11 , truth movement

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Old 13th September 2019, 01:41 PM   #41
Fonebone
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
I forgot a detail. Even assuming you manage to separate the columns from their original position, at least the core's removed column sections are still vertical and trapped in the holes of the floors, unable to rotate to a horizontal position. They would impact the upper and lower floors, producing jolts. The only solution I can think for that is to open holes in the floors with more explosives, all for the sake of producing free fall.
Quote:
Can you please explain to me why was so important for the perps to induce free fall, when it's so hard to achieve by removing columns?
The main goal of the "perps" would be to demolish the targeted buildings and
incinerate incriminating evidence to extinguish ongoing investigations and crimes.

According to William Rodriguez and many survivors "ALL of the doors
at the bottoms of the emergency exit staircases were LOCKED".
William Rodriguez was considered a hero because he has master keys which
allowed him to unlock the emergency exit steel fire-doors allowing some of the victims trapped
above the targeted floors to excape their fate.
Secondary goals differed. One building could have been selected because it contained tenants
conducting investigations of Wall street and/or bank shenanigans (criminal activities ).
Another motive might be insurance fraud.
Still another motive could be politically motivated intended to enrage the citizens enough
to incite vengeance.
No matter how many hidden motives or secret agendas one thing that
remains high on the conspirators list of goals would disguise the demolition
as unintended results of a "terrorist attack" committed by "enemies". The demolitions were carefully engineered
to mimic natural collapses while minimizing peripheral damage.
The WTC7 was imploded in slow motion with the preamble explosions occurring over a matter of hours
to "cock the trigger" for the final step,
the total neutralization of the vertical supports with carefully placed cutter charges and timed to imitate
a natural collapse yet not reveal the illusion.
Every one of the forty seven columns on eight floors had to collapse simultaneously in order for the structure
to collapse in the free-fall manor recorded on all of the WTC7 collapse videos.





Quote:
Alternatively, can you explain how 8 stories worth of column can suddenly disappear?
[/quote]


YES ! But I would like to hear your explanation first please.
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All great truths begin as blasphemies __Shaw

Last edited by Fonebone; 13th September 2019 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 13th September 2019, 02:48 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
...The WTC7 was imploded in slow motion with the preamble explosions occurring over a matter of hours
to "cock the trigger" for the final step,
the total neutralization of the vertical supports with carefully placed cutter charges and timed to imitate
a natural collapse yet not reveal the illusion...

And here I was thinking that it was because GWB wanted to put his own signature on the WTC7 collapse, challenging all and sundry to "figure it out", and laugh maniacally.
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Old 13th September 2019, 03:52 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Every one of the forty seven columns on eight floors had to collapse simultaneously in order for the structure
to collapse in the free-fall manor recorded on all of the WTC7 collapse videos.
Wrong. Read this thread.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=261007
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Old 13th September 2019, 04:16 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
The main goal of the "perps" would be to demolish the targeted buildings and
incinerate incriminating evidence to extinguish ongoing investigations and crimes.
And they needed free fall because...?

This goal did not need free fall. It could be accomplished by simply cutting the columns, and allowing jolts to happen as the columns encountered floors in their way down. It does not make sense to go into the extra effort of blowing all columns in 2 points, column connections in 3-4 points over 8 floors, and holes for the column sections to avoid the floors.


Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Every one of the forty seven eighty-one columns on eight floors had to collapse simultaneously in order for the structure
to collapse in the free-fall manor recorded on all of the WTC7 collapse videos.
Fixed that for you. Collapsing is not enough. Opposing zero resistance to allow free fall, can only be obtained in two ways:

- Blowing each of the 81 columns on the top and the bottom, plus every connection on every side of the column on each of the 8 floors, and opening holes in the floors for the vertically aligned columns trapped in the core to go through without producing jolts.
- Magic.

The first approach does not explain why gravity acceleration wasn't reached immediately, but it took a bit for the corner to reach it. It also doesn't explain the absence of a powerful seismic wave corresponding to such many explosions, and the absence of noise.

The second approach, on the other hand, explains everything. In fact, it also explains how Hermione could store in her handbag things that didn't fit in it.

Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
In that representation, the column still opposes some degree of resistance and doesn't allow free fall. Also, this drawing only applies to the collapse of 1 floor; the connections still held the columns in place in the rest of the floors.


Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Quote:
Alternatively, can you explain how 8 stories worth of column can suddenly disappear?

YES ! But I would like to hear your explanation first please.
They didn't disappear. In fact there was no free falling.

Your turn.
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Old 13th September 2019, 04:20 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
the total neutralization of the vertical supports with carefully placed cutter charges and timed to imitate a natural collapse yet not reveal the illusion.
Every one of the forty seven columns on eight floors had to collapse simultaneously in order for the structure to collapse in the free-fall manor recorded on all of the WTC7 collapse videos.
No, No, No…

First…there is no evidence of cutter changes ever been found at any of the WTC sites. Nothing, a big fat zero.

Collapse Simultaneously? Just by looking at the video of the collapse, we know the columns under the east penthouse failed first. The interior core collapse continued from east to west until the complete interior framing system failed. Once this happened, the exterior columns lost all interior lateral bracing and became unstable. Additionally, the collapsing interior framing systems is now inserting an additional dynamic vertical load on the exterior columns that they were never design for. It is pretty easy to understand why all the exterior columns failed pretty quickly, once the interior core was gone.

Free fall acceleration…meaningless. Actually, the exterior of WTC 7 only exhibited slightly greater than free fall acceleration for a couple of seconds. This can be explained using simple Newtonian physics. Since the interior core collapse first, it produced an additional force (or down drag) on the exterior frame. Since, Force = Mass x Acceleration, when we increase the force, and the mass stays the same, the acceleration must increase. While the building exterior exhibited slightly then greater free fall acceleration, the complete sum of WTC 7 always collapsed at less the free fall acceleration.
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Old 13th September 2019, 04:48 PM   #46
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The perimeter columns did not fail simultaneously. Some were still failing after the North Facade had come down.
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Old 13th September 2019, 04:55 PM   #47
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Wow, MHM writing an elaborate explanation! That's like spotting a green dog, as we say here.

Originally Posted by MileHighMadness View Post
Free fall acceleration…meaningless. Actually, the exterior of WTC 7 only exhibited slightly greater than free fall acceleration for a couple of seconds. This can be explained using simple Newtonian physics. Since the interior core collapse first, it produced an additional force (or down drag) on the exterior frame. Since, Force = Mass x Acceleration, when we increase the force, and the mass stays the same, the acceleration must increase. While the building exterior exhibited slightly then greater free fall acceleration, the complete sum of WTC 7 always collapsed at less the free fall acceleration.
My favourite example is this video:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


As the cable holding the tower breaks, the tower begins to fall. This makes the crane cable tighten. When it's at its longest, it exerts a dynamic load on the crane arm's tip. The arm is not able to withstand this load, and gives way, causing the tip to go from zero velocity to a significant amount of velocity very quickly (the rate of this velocity change mainly depends on the elasticity of the crane's cable and the resistance of the arm before buckling). The acceleration of the tip is evidently over that of gravity; no doubt about that.

After that, the crane's arm, which has already buckled, offers almost negligible resistance to the fall until it hits something (it seems to be the tower but I'm not 100% sure).

Let tower = WTC7 core, crane cable = beams and girders connecting the core to the perimeter, crane arm = WTC7 perimeter columns. When the WTC7 core (tower) falls, the beams and girders (cable) connecting to the perimeter (crane arm) exert a dynamic load on the perimeter (crane arm) elastically until the perimeter (crane arm) gives way, producing an acceleration bigger than gravity in the northwest corner of the building (tip of the crane).

Last edited by pgimeno; 13th September 2019 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 13th September 2019, 04:58 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
You have never chopped down trees? "Pay Attention", playing the irony card, as you failed to pay attention for 18 years.

What is your point? Why would the clean up crews not cut at an angle, for some of the same reasons CD charges use an angle? Clean up is also controlled demotion using torches. You have no point.

"They" cut the steel columns at an angle after 9/11 (during clean up, there are photos), you missed the boat of massive rational evidence, again.
The WTC site was crawling with hundreds of rescue workers searching for survivors.
Your assertion that standing columns were felled like trees is
hilarious.
Images and videos taken onsite during the clean-up reveal that cranes were used to secure
the pieces of steel being cut by torches in order to lift out the steel safely.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/textfi...7708997281912/


Yeah I've cut down trees- I cut them with the blunt end of the axe head.
The second or third swing sends a shock-wave shiver up the tree trunk that turns
the wood into dust that falls into a neat pile up around the tree's roots.
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Old 13th September 2019, 05:54 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
The WTC site was crawling with hundreds of rescue workers searching for survivors.
Your assertion that standing columns were felled like trees is
hilarious.
Images and videos taken onsite during the clean-up reveal that cranes were used to secure
the pieces of steel being cut by torches in order to lift out the steel safely.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/textfi...7708997281912/


Yeah I've cut down trees- I cut them with the blunt end of the axe head.
The second or third swing sends a shock-wave shiver up the tree trunk that turns
the wood into dust that falls into a neat pile up around the tree's roots.
Are trees not cut at a slant? Nice dodge from acknowledging the failure of your "free fall thus CD" claim, by the way. Aside from a whole thread on the subject, other posters also explained exactly why the downward acceleration profile of the building is meaningless with regards to controlled demolition.
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Old 13th September 2019, 06:06 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
The main goal of the "perps" would be to demolish the targeted buildings and
incinerate incriminating evidence to extinguish ongoing investigations and crimes. [snip]

Secondary goals differed. One building could have been selected because it contained tenants
conducting investigations of Wall street and/or bank shenanigans (criminal activities ).
Another motive might be insurance fraud.
Still another motive could be politically motivated intended to enrage the citizens enough
to incite vengeance.
[snip]

They missed the SEC's office. The FBI is down at Federal Plaza. Both brief their HQ's in Washington regularly.

Quote:
No matter how many hidden motives or secret agendas one thing that
remains high on the conspirators list of goals would disguise the demolition
as unintended results of a "terrorist attack" committed by "enemies". The demolitions were carefully engineered
to mimic natural collapses while minimizing peripheral damage.
Why not just blow up all three buildings at 11 A.M. when they were full of workers (up to 50,000)? Why fly jumbo jets onto the towers which would compromise many key explosive charges?

Why isn't the total destruction of the Twin Towers and WTC7 with explosives carried out with NO WARNING more frightening to normal people? Why put on a show that brought ALL of the NYPD and FDNY and FBI into the WTC complex? NYPD has the best counter-terrorism task force in CONUS, their Bomb Squad was positioned in the shadow of WTC7 all day. Why risk the discovery of your plot?

Why blow up an empty building?


Quote:
The WTC7 was imploded in slow motion with the preamble explosions occurring over a matter of hours
to "cock the trigger" for the final step,
the total neutralization of the vertical supports with carefully placed cutter charges and timed to imitate
a natural collapse yet not reveal the illusion.
Every one of the forty seven columns on eight floors had to collapse simultaneously in order for the structure
to collapse in the free-fall manor recorded on all of the WTC7 collapse videos.
Weird. The NYPD Bomb Squad was right there and didn't hear any explosives detonate. Why is that?
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Old 13th September 2019, 06:17 PM   #51
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Just once I'd like to run into a CTist, and specifically a 9-11 Truther who understands terrorism, politics, and the basics of Black Ops.

And technically Al Qaeda is a Black Ops organization (meaning they're ruthless and sneaky - not that they are a creation of the US/British government).
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Old 13th September 2019, 06:53 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
The main goal of the "perps" would be to demolish the targeted buildings and incinerate incriminating evidence to extinguish ongoing investigations and crimes.

The WTC7 was imploded in slow motion with the preamble explosions occurring over a matter of hours to "cock the trigger" for the final step,
the total neutralization of the vertical supports with carefully placed cutter charges and timed to imitate a natural collapse yet not reveal the illusion.
Every one of the forty seven columns on eight floors had to collapse simultaneously in order for the structure to collapse in the free-fall manor recorded on all of the WTC7 collapse videos.
First of all, there was never evidence that explosives were used during the 9/11 terrorist attack and there was no way you can prepare a steel frame building for demolition and not interfere with the daily routine of the many workers inside that building.

Explosives alone could not have been responsible and seismic monitors did not record explosions due to explosives as WTC 7 collapsed. None of the WTC buildings totally collapsed at free fall speed and in some videos, you can see WTC 7 tilt toward the south, which is where a huge hole due to impact damage was seen.

You can place a thousand pounds of explosives on each floor of a multiple story steel frame building and detonate the explosives all at once, which will result in blown out windows and walls, but the steel frame of the building will remain standing. That should be a clue as to why steel frame buildings must be physically weakened before explosives are placed as is done in the real world of building demolition involving steel frame buildings. Physically weakening a steel frame building is a very noisy operation that would have not have gone unnoticed in a building occupied by many people.

To recap:

1. No evidence of explosives found within the rubble of WTC 7

2. No seismic evidence that explosives were detonated as WTC 7 collapsed

3. No evidence the steel structure of WTC 7 was structurally weakened prior to its collapse

4. No visual evidence that explosives were used

5. No audio evidence that explosives were used

In other words, no evidence whatsoever that explosives were used to bring down WTC 7 or even WTC 1 and WTC 2 for that matter. Ask any demolition expert as to why structural weakening is required before explosives are placed during demolition operations of steel frame buildings.

Last edited by skyeagle409; 13th September 2019 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 13th September 2019, 07:19 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Agreed - While the firemen and rescue teams were frantically searching for survivors,
including their missing comrades, other teams of welders and rescue workers risked their lives
using every type of cutting and welding tools available to cut away steel into the three smoking
and burning WTC towers interiors to explore. I'm pointing out columns were cut at an angle.

All you have to do is click the link and pay attention.
Here is what really happened, which didn't involve cutter charges or thermite.



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Old 14th September 2019, 05:27 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Here is what really happened, which didn't involve cutter charges or thermite.

And from the residue below the cuts, you can surmise why it was cut that way instead of horizontally. The high side and diagonal sides were cut from the outside of the column (hence the drips of residue on the two visible inside surfaces and the lack of any on the outer left side) but the fourth (low, front) side was cut from the inside. It all comes down to the question: if you were the guy with the cutting torch, where would you want to be standing when you cut the fourth side?
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Old 14th September 2019, 06:24 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
<snip>

According to William Rodriguez and many survivors "ALL of the doors
at the bottoms of the emergency exit staircases were LOCKED"
.
William Rodriguez was considered a hero because he has master keys which
allowed him to unlock the emergency exit steel fire-doors allowing some of the victims trapped
above the targeted floors to excape their fate.
<snip>
The emergency doors on almost all buildings in the US are locked from the outside, not from the inside. So he didn't unlock doors to save lives, but he did unlock doors to allow firemen into floors. It is a security issue.
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Old 14th September 2019, 07:01 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
The emergency doors on almost all buildings in the US are locked from the outside, not from the inside. So he didn't unlock doors to save lives, but he did unlock doors to allow firemen into floors. It is a security issue.

Those survivors trapped inside the LOCKED doors at the bottoms of the emergency exit stairway might disagree.
Locking those doors had to be deliberate and were it not for the hero William Rodriguez would have been murdered
when the tower collapsed.

Read these witnesses testimonies !
[excerpt] "...85th floor of One World Trade Center...As they descended into the breathable but intensely hot stairwells,
Heineman's staff was stopped cold seven stories down, at a stairwell door that was locked.
Forced out through the 78th floor's "sky lobby," where express elevators go to the main lobby, a building employee "didn't know"
any other way down, said Heineman.
"Frantic, he discovered a second stairwell on the building's east side, and continued downward,
only to be stopped by yet another locked door.
This time, he said, someone had a key...." William Rodriguez

http://www.mjbarkl.com/locked.htm
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Old 14th September 2019, 07:35 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Those survivors trapped inside the LOCKED doors at the bottoms of the emergency exit stairway might disagree.
Locking those doors had to be deliberate and were it not for the hero William Rodriguez would have been murdered
when the tower collapsed.

Read these witnesses testimonies !
[excerpt] "...85th floor of One World Trade Center...As they descended into the breathable but intensely hot stairwells,
Heineman's staff was stopped cold seven stories down, at a stairwell door that was locked.
Forced out through the 78th floor's "sky lobby," where express elevators go to the main lobby, a building employee "didn't know"
any other way down, said Heineman.
"Frantic, he discovered a second stairwell on the building's east side, and continued downward,
only to be stopped by yet another locked door.
This time, he said, someone had a key...." William Rodriguez

http://www.mjbarkl.com/locked.htm
The door may have been warped and not able to opened except by a lot of force. In the US it is against fire code to have ANY fire escape locked from the inside. Witness statements in these types of incidences are at best taken with a grain of salt, just like your "explosions" in 7.

ETA: All the doors are locked from the outside, but the opening bar opens all locked doors, except those that may be warped beyond the strength of the person opening it.

ETA2: I realize there may have been some door openers that didn't function properly and that some locks may have been locked in violation of fire ordinances, so don't post that.

Last edited by bknight; 14th September 2019 at 07:59 AM. Reason: Outside locks
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Old 14th September 2019, 10:30 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Those survivors ...
Fonebone, you're still dodging the free fall question...

How is free fall evidence of controlled demolition, when non-free fall collapse can explain the building's collapse acceleration profile? Did you read the posts in reply to you, or the thread on the subject?
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Old 14th September 2019, 10:36 AM   #59
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I love the never-ending passive suggestion of demolition, something that has zero evidence in the first place. Zero real reason to suspect it except for bewilderment in the moment. It should have fizzled out after the first few weeks following September 2001.
Truthers look for every reason they can, stupid or otherwise, to justify believing in their mythical demolition.
Cut columns, aluminum oxide, loud noises, and my favorite, free-fall
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