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Old 8th January 2011, 09:46 AM   #201
sheeplesnshills
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Originally Posted by Chodorov View Post
The State manipulates photos relentlessly. For example NASA always puts Mars ground and low-orbit photos through a red-tinged lens and have been doing so for decades. This is how government behaves. They make mistakes and then reinforce those mistakes ruthlessly for decades to come. People naively assume that they do things in accordance with logic and normal human decency. This is more the exception then the rule.

No No its not the State its the Reptile people!

Nice that you show your true colours. Typical truther. come up with a conclusion and then desperately bend fact to fit your fantasy.
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Old 8th January 2011, 09:47 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
In Photo #1, there is an unlabelled TA on the right margin. Isn't that TA1, and consequently, should you not relabel
TA1->TA2
TA2->TA3
TA3->TA4
?

In the Commentary on Photo #1, you'd have to conclude that the cab between TA3 and TA4, not?
Exactly! But the cab is not between TA3 and TA4 in reality. Get it? The photo can't be right. If you label TA2 and TA3 correctly in relation to the cab you end up with an impossible extra TA. If you label the TA by the turn off correctly you end up with the cab impossibly between TA3 and TA4.

The photo is impossible.
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Old 8th January 2011, 09:53 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
Exactly! But the cab is not between TA3 and TA4 in reality. Get it? The photo can't be right. If you label TA2 and TA3 correctly in relation to the cab you end up with an impossible extra TA. If you label the TA by the turn off correctly you end up with the cab impossibly between TA3 and TA4.

The photo is impossible.
Why do other photos show this not to be true? Let me guess, They're ALL fake?

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Old 8th January 2011, 09:54 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
Exactly! But the cab is not between TA3 and TA4 in reality.
Why do you think so? Every image seems to agree with the theory that it is between TA3 and TA4.
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Old 8th January 2011, 10:07 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
You have to watch the presentation, decide if I am right or not, and then draw your own conclusions. I wrote out some of the implications, but for the most part I think people can draw their own conclusions.
Are you a fan of the "fly-over"? If not, why do you think the evil doers would go through so much trouble to fake so much evidence? It doesn't make any sense.


(if you a "fly-over" fan you hopeless because your own witnesses prove your wrong)
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Old 8th January 2011, 10:13 AM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
I don't flat out refuse. I'm not going to have time to work on this til next week. I'd also like to point out that you guys claim that line of sight plots could debunk this whole thing very easily...why haven't any of you produced any yet then?
Because its work and we have lives. Go back and redo your PPT with the corrections required and add overhead line of sight diagrams so that we can see where you think photographer must have been/couldn't have been

Quote:
To be honest, I am looking forward to the line of sight thing because it is going to help me.
Yes, it might be an epiphany. Understanding that you are indeed wrong, will be a first step on the road back to reality.
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Old 8th January 2011, 10:16 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Why do other photos show this not to be true? Let me guess, They're ALL fake?

In other words, you are saying the photos are mutually contradictory.
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Old 8th January 2011, 10:22 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
In other words, you are saying the photos are mutually contradictory.
How did you figure I'm saying that? Multiple photos, multiple perspectives (that damn word again)
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Old 8th January 2011, 10:22 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
In other words, you are saying the photos are mutually contradictory.
No. All photos make sense if the cab is between TA3 and TA4. All of them.
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Old 8th January 2011, 10:31 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
That is a typical problem I have with many truthers:
They are so often so absolutely, totally, unambiguously, 100%, no mistake possible, beyond all doubt sure, certain and convinced that they are right.
When in fact they are wrong.
Even about simple things like "what do we see in this picture?"

And he was so adamant about the truth of his claim regarding this detail; a detail that he claimed was insignificant only after he was proven wrong.

Quote:
No, it is VERY significant. Once you claim to be absolutely right, and we are preposterously wrong - once you use such strong words AND turn out to be flat wrong, we must view everything else you present as absolutely true with utmost skepticism. Because it shows you are not approaching the problem you want to solve with an open, skeptical mind, but instead with a very rigid and fixed predisposition.

Technically, the detail itself is rather insignificant. It's Mobertermy's handling of it which is significant. As you said, it makes [even more] obvious some very fundamental flaws in his reasoning and analysis; flaws that may taint all of his other claims.
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Old 8th January 2011, 10:40 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by Chodorov View Post
The State manipulates photos relentlessly. For example NASA always puts Mars ground and low-orbit photos through a red-tinged lens and have been doing so for decades. This is how government behaves. They make mistakes and then reinforce those mistakes ruthlessly for decades to come. People naively assume that they do things in accordance with logic and normal human decency. This is more the exception then the rule.

Supreme Court Upholds Lower Court Opinion - NASA Too Decent
Red Planet Police Can Warrantless Raid Homes To Destroy Non Red-Tinged Mars Photographs
Chodorov Moves to North Korea Where Mars Is Green.
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Old 8th January 2011, 10:41 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by Merko View Post
No. All photos make sense if the cab is between TA3 and TA4. All of them.
Well, if you can demonstrate this you will have succesfully debunked me. Have a got at it! All you've done so far is make worthless bare assertions.
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Old 8th January 2011, 10:46 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
Well, if you can demonstrate this you will have succesfully debunked me. Have a got at it! All you've done so far is make worthless bare assertions.
Is TA2 almost directly (actually slightly south) of the overhead sign (like in your overhead diagram)?
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Old 8th January 2011, 10:46 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
And he was so adamant about the truth of his claim regarding this detail; a detail that he claimed was insignificant only after he was proven wrong.
You have to put the claim in context. I was trying to find the easiest way to demonstrate that the cab is to the right of TA3. Actually, the fact that I was thinking of the traffic arm going the wrong way actually strenthens my case because that puts TA3 even further to the left than I marked it.

Quote:
Technically, the detail itself is rather insignificant. It's Mobertermy's handling of it which is significant.
I absolutely agree. I did the intellectually honest thing and admitted to a mistake. That is significant.

Quote:
As you said, it makes [even more] obvious some very fundamental flaws in his reasoning and analysis; flaws that may taint all of his other claims.
No, it doesn't. It just shows I admit to mistkaes when I make them. Furthermore, if you look at the claim that was being demonstrated (the location of TA3) me being wrong actually helps me because it puts TA3 even further north than I had marked it, and makes it even more obvious that the cab is between TA2 and TA3.

All you have done is highlighted the fact that I am intellectually honest and admit to mistakes when I make them. Thank you.
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Old 8th January 2011, 10:47 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Is TA2 almost directly (actually slightly south) of the overhead sign (like in your overhead diagram)?
Yes, it is slightly south of the overhead sign.

Last edited by Mobertermy; 8th January 2011 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 8th January 2011, 10:50 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
You have to watch the presentation, decide if I am right or not, and then draw your own conclusions. I wrote out some of the implications, but for the most part I think people can draw their own conclusions.
That is not an answer. You have inundated us with pages and pages of minutiae without illustrating why any of this is germane to the larger issue of 9-11. What larger point are you attempting to make with this presentation? That is what I want to hear you say.
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Old 8th January 2011, 10:55 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by catsmate1 View Post
What about Rob Menard?
.
From what little I've seen, just another windbag.
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Old 8th January 2011, 10:56 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
Originally Posted by Merko
All photos make sense if the cab is between TA3 and TA4. All of them.
Well, if you can demonstrate this you will have succesfully debunked me.
No, you will have to tell us what is wrong with them. Please start by at least offering a coherent explanation for which photo you think is wrong, and which one(s) you think we can trust. Then tell us why you think some particular photo is wrong. It is really, really hard to even follow your claim so I basically disregarded anything you've said so far and looked at the photos only, and they all make sense.
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Old 8th January 2011, 11:03 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
Yes, it is slightly south of the overhead sign.
Is TA3 south of and not on the bridge?
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Old 8th January 2011, 11:06 AM   #220
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What is the point to all this garbage?
What purpose would be served by the photomanipulation of anything?

Last edited by I Ratant; 8th January 2011 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 8th January 2011, 11:09 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by I Ratant View Post
What is the point to all this garbage?
What purpose would be served by the photomanipulation of anything?
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...88#post6741288

Enough said?
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Old 8th January 2011, 11:16 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by I Ratant View Post
What is the point to all this garbage?
What purpose would be served by the photomanipulation of anything?
That's the beauty of it. There IS no obvious reason. The NWO does stuff just to mess with our heads.
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Old 8th January 2011, 11:33 AM   #223
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Mobertermy,


It's not your fault.
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Old 8th January 2011, 11:51 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
Exactly! But the cab is not between TA3 and TA4 in reality. Get it? The photo can't be right. If you label TA2 and TA3 correctly in relation to the cab you end up with an impossible extra TA. If you label the TA by the turn off correctly you end up with the cab impossibly between TA3 and TA4.

The photo is impossible.
No its not. Its exactly as one would expect it to be. You being wrong does not make the picture wrong..........
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Old 8th January 2011, 11:54 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
Well, if you can demonstrate this you will have succesfully debunked me. Have a got at it! All you've done so far is make worthless bare assertions.

Look up the word IRONY.
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Old 8th January 2011, 12:02 PM   #226
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The OP is just baseless junk to try & manipulate readers into thinking that the photos' shown are "manipulated".

A picture says a thousand words, but to Truthers it's just 1 word: "Manipulation"!

What a maroon!
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Old 8th January 2011, 12:11 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
There's a sucker born...
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Old 8th January 2011, 12:35 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
.
Oh. IC.
There is no point.
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Old 8th January 2011, 12:46 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
Exactly! But the cab is not between TA3 and TA4 in reality. Get it? The photo can't be right. If you label TA2 and TA3 correctly in relation to the cab you end up with an impossible extra TA. If you label the TA by the turn off correctly you end up with the cab impossibly between TA3 and TA4.

The photo is impossible.
Mobertermy,

Go to Wikipedia. Look up "Parallax". Educate yourself, since you're not prepared to let anyone else do it.

Dave
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Old 8th January 2011, 12:53 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Mobertermy,

Go to Wikipedia. Look up "Parallax". Educate yourself, since you're not prepared to let anyone else do it.

Dave
Parallax Software was a video game developer best known for creating the Descent series of computer games
. Parallax Software was ... 2 KB (216 words)
- 06:43, 6 November 2010

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_Software












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Old 8th January 2011, 12:53 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
At the same time if sight lines are such an easy and obvious way to "debunk" the presentation, then why hasn't any one produced one that demonstrates this?
I have. You're simply refusing to believe it.

Go back to the sight line I posted; it's not perfect, but it's near enough. Print it out. Sight along it, and look what's to the left and what's to the right of the line. Then draw a second line at a right angle to the road, and sight along that. You'll see that some things that were to the right of the first line are to the left of the second.

Honestly, kids in kindergarten can follow this. Why can't you? You keep saying things are to the left of the cab on the overhead but to the right of it on the photo, and I keep telling you that left and right are relative to the direction of view, and you still can't get it. Is it some kind of dyslexia?

Dave
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Old 8th January 2011, 12:55 PM   #232
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Wait this thread is all about proving that CIT was a bunch of lying thugs?

That is nice, but we already knew that.
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Old 8th January 2011, 12:57 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
Keep in mind that many other witnesses actually place the cab NoC as well. For instance Sgt. Lagasse said he saw the poles on the ground NoC with his own eyes. He also insisted the cab wasn't on the bridge!
He also said he was on the opposite side of the Citgo, and facing in the opposite direction, to the position and direction he's seen in on the security cameras. When people are asked to recall events years afterwards, in real life they sometimes get things wrong. But when over a hundred people give statements immediately after an event that all agree, best estimate is that they're right. And everyone agreed that flight 77 hit the Pentagon.

Dave
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Old 8th January 2011, 01:27 PM   #234
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Mobertermy:

Do these two picture show the cab in the same place. If so do you still believe the TA marked behind the cab is TA2?
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Old 8th January 2011, 02:03 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
I have. You're simply refusing to believe it.

....

Honestly, kids in kindergarten can follow this. Why can't you? You keep saying things are to the left of the cab on the overhead but to the right of it on the photo, and I keep telling you that left and right are relative to the direction of view, and you still can't get it. Is it some kind of dyslexia?

Dave
Some kind of dyslexia would explain a lot. Come to think of it, I rarely succeed when asking my wife for directions - she cannot get N/S or R/L sorted out.
I just googlemap it myself....

ETA - maybe mobert's problem is that he is 'spatially challenged'
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Old 8th January 2011, 02:48 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by alienentity View Post
Some kind of dyslexia would explain a lot. Come to think of it, I rarely succeed when asking my wife for directions - she cannot get N/S or R/L sorted out.
I just googlemap it myself....

ETA - maybe mobert's problem is that he is 'spatially challenged'
good grief i cant believe i wasted 15 minutes of my time wading through this nonsense, What this boils down to is, If a Mobert cant understand parralax, lens angles, telephoto lens foreshortening, Then he rejects our reality, and substitutes his own. Ive been over just about every single photo taken and published of the area of question over 3 years ago. Llloyds taxi stopped at the end of the bridge stone guardwall where the armco rail termination ends, between the left and center lane of the three lane southbound, There is no mystery or "photo manipulation". I can open up Google earth and use the timeline tool to go back to sept 11 2001 , do a screen capture, post it here and clear all this nonsense about the gates up. But it is not worth the bother Mobert because frankly,You are not worth my time.
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Galileo:The jury said I didn't have any mental defects or diseases, they declared me 100% sane. Has a jury ever declared you sane?
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Old 8th January 2011, 03:04 PM   #237
sheeplesnshills
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
Wait this thread is all about proving that CIT was a bunch of lying thugs?

That is nice, but we already knew that.

yeah we do but there are internal truther wars where CIT are in one camp and the "cruise missile disguised as a parrot or whatever" are in another. Each side thinks the other are insane or shills. Its paranoia run amok
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Old 8th January 2011, 03:29 PM   #238
Kid Eager
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I'm done with this thread. His claim that the photo of the cab with the Pentagon burning with was manipulated was disproven over 100 posts ago. The rest is just death spasms and denial.

I note that he still didn't answer my question as to whether he was going to withdraw the presentation now it is proven to be making false claims.

Anyhow, I've wasted enough hours in my life doing photoanalysis for him, so seeya somewhere else.
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Old 8th January 2011, 03:54 PM   #239
Mobertermy
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
No. Different photo, different line.


You never answered my question as to the identity of the TA in the cab close-up. Do you still maintain it's TA2 (despite photos showing it can't be)?
Yes, I still maintain that. Why do you think it can't be?
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Old 8th January 2011, 03:55 PM   #240
Mobertermy
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Is TA3 south of and not on the bridge?
Yes.
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