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Old 8th January 2011, 04:03 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
Yes, I still maintain that. Why do you think it can't be?
Because all photos show the cab very close to the bridge.
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Old 8th January 2011, 04:08 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by A W Smith View Post
good grief i cant believe i wasted 15 minutes of my time wading through this nonsense, What this boils down to is, If a Mobert cant understand parralax, lens angles, telephoto lens foreshortening, Then he rejects our reality, and substitutes his own. Ive been over just about every single photo taken and published of the area of question over 3 years ago. Llloyds taxi stopped at the end of the bridge stone guardwall where the armco rail termination ends, between the left and center lane of the three lane southbound, There is no mystery or "photo manipulation". I can open up Google earth and use the timeline tool to go back to sept 11 2001 , do a screen capture, post it here and clear all this nonsense about the gates up. But it is not worth the bother Mobert because frankly,You are not worth my time.
Well seeing as you thought it was worth your time to write that paragraph, why do the screen capture from 2001. Nah, your story doesn't add up...I bet you went to the screen shot from '01 and realized it looks absolutely nothing like the Ingersoll photos, so you decided to cop out and say you won't waste your time, even though you say this is all very easy to clear up by doing so. I call BS.
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Old 8th January 2011, 04:11 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
Yes, I still maintain that. Why do you think it can't be?
Okay, I said I wasn't going to come back, but this is too bleeding obvious to pass up.

Go back and have another look at your "Everything Together" slide. We have already established that lightpole A was several degrees out of shot, which is why it can't be seen in the cab and Pentagon photo.

Keep looking at that same slide. Note that TA2 is several degrees further to the right of lightpole A - around 25 degrees from the line of sight from the cab, let alone where the photo was taken from. TA2 was not even close to being in that shot.

Don't leave that slide just yet. Grab a ruler or any straight surface. Now let's adopt a worst case scenario - in other words every factor is stacked in favour of your claim - and assume the photographer was standing a metre or two behind the cab. Align the ruler from the cab towards the Pentagon such that lightpole B is *just* in shot.

Now answer the question: which is the *only* other TA that is now also just in shot?

I rest my case.
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Old 8th January 2011, 04:15 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
Well seeing as you thought it was worth your time to write that paragraph, why do the screen capture from 2001. Nah, your story doesn't add up...I bet you went to the screen shot from '01 and realized it looks absolutely nothing like the Ingersoll photos, so you decided to cop out and say you won't waste your time, even though you say this is all very easy to clear up by doing so. I call BS.
well I call moron, If you did sixty seconds of research you would actually find the gates are numbered, Answer me this genius, What are you calling gate number 35? number 36? number 37? number 38? number 39? Those are the gates that appear in your photos, Ill give you a hint, Gate number 35 is directly under the sign catenary, and the numbers go up from there heading north, now go ahead, Do your own ***** work.
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Old 8th January 2011, 04:17 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Because all photos show the cab very close to the bridge.


See that TA there...it is TA2...it can't be TA3 because you can see if the cab were moved a few feet to the right it would be past the overhead sig. Cab is between TA2 and TA3. Is that clear yet?

Last edited by Mobertermy; 8th January 2011 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 8th January 2011, 04:22 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
I rest my case.

I see you reconsidered the "stone wall". Your right that was far too stupid. This one only shows you have no clue


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Old 8th January 2011, 04:25 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
yeah no **** Sherlock because your looking north through a telephoto lens, The cab is a lane and a half away from the end of stone wall which is directly west. gate number 36 is lined up with the nose of the cab and you can see the mechanism in some photos which looks somewhat like the rear end of a utility truck. but it aint, gates 37 and 38 appear behind the cab in some photos looking north,
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Old 8th January 2011, 04:27 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by A W Smith View Post
well I call moron, If you did sixty seconds of research you would actually find the gates are numbered, Answer me this genius, What are you calling gate number 35? number 36? number 37? number 38? number 39? Those are the gates that appear in your photos, Ill give you a hint, Gate number 35 is directly under the sign catenary, and the numbers go up from there heading north, now go ahead, Do your own ***** work.
If by "catenary" you mean the overhead sign then gate number 35 would be TA2 (assuming you are correct about the numbering and location.)
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Old 8th January 2011, 04:29 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
If by "catenary" you mean the overhead sign then gate number 35 would be TA2 (assuming you are correct about the numbering and location.)
So you claim the cab is south of the overhead sign?


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Old 8th January 2011, 04:30 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
I rest my case.

I see you reconsidered the "stone wall". Your right that was far too stupid. This one only shows you have no clue


So you are sayig the TA in post #245 is TA2.

(And I never said anythig about the stone wall, other than that there has been debate about it).

So it's TA2 there?
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Old 8th January 2011, 04:31 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
So you claim the cab is south of the overhead sign?


The cab is north of the overhead sign.
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Old 8th January 2011, 04:31 PM   #252
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Moberterny, on addition to my earlier, thus far ignored suggestions, I'd strongly suggest that you refer to the "TAs" using their now-known actual numbers. I'm sure if you asked AW Smith, he'd tell you where to find them.
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Old 8th January 2011, 04:33 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
So you are sayig the TA in post #245 is TA2.

(And I never said anythig about the stone wall, other than that there has been debate about it).

So it's TA2 there?
TA2 is still under (slightly south) of the sign. TA3 is next to the cab (I can't see it in that picture)
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Old 8th January 2011, 04:38 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
The cab is north of the overhead sign.
Explain pictures in my post #234 if you maintain that the cab stopped next to TA2.

Did you miss that post?
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Old 8th January 2011, 04:39 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
If by "catenary" you mean the overhead sign then gate number 35 would be TA2 (assuming you are correct about the numbering and location.)
assuming? Good grief man, All you need to do is a street view and you can practically jump on the gate control boxes to see their numbers, Go back to 1999 or 2002 for hi res and you can see a whole row of gate mechanisms buried in the wide concrete median about every 100 feet, Llloyds cab is about 80 feet north of the sign catenary
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Old 8th January 2011, 04:44 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by A W Smith View Post
assuming? Good grief man, All you need to do is a street view and you can practically jump on the gate control boxes to see their numbers, Go back to 1999 or 2002 for hi res and you can see a whole row of gate mechanisms buried in the wide concrete median about every 100 feet, Llloyds cab is about 80 feet north of the sign catenary
I think he realizes he's got it badly wrong and it attempting to delay the inevitable by asking question after pointless question... Even his own mapping of the layout in his slideshow invalidates his claim - talk about footgun.
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Old 8th January 2011, 04:45 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
(And I never said anythig about the stone wall, other than that there has been debate about it).
I saw the photo you posted first (before edit) with the "missing stonewall" captions.

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Old 8th January 2011, 04:48 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
I saw the photo you posted first (before edit) with the "missing stonewall" captions.

As did I. Thought better of it, I'd say. A promising sign.
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Old 8th January 2011, 04:54 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
As did I. Thought better of it, I'd say. A promising sign.
As Kid Eager said, he's starting to "get it".

I'm just curious how long he'll keep that mess of a power-point up.
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Old 8th January 2011, 04:56 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
I saw the photo you posted first (before edit) with the "missing stonewall" captions.

yeah I saw that too LOL. Lloyds cab is right at the south end of the bridge span, Theres an acceleration lane that blends into the traffic lane on the bridge itself, Its really wide alongside Lloyds cab, And Lloyds cab is into the center lane, You take a telephoto shot north and you wont see the stone wall behind the tree that's top was clipped by flight 77, just the steel armco rail. And there's so many of those gates he's lost. There is a gate every hundred feet in that HOV barrier alone. Not including the other barrier with gates on 100 foot centers the east wall of the HOV lane.
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Old 8th January 2011, 04:59 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by A W Smith View Post
yeah I saw that too LOL. Lloyds cab is right at the south end of the bridge span, Theres an acceleration lane that blends into the traffic lane on the bridge itself, Its really wide alongside Lloyds cab, And Lloyds cab is into the center lane, You take a telephoto shot north and you wont see the stone wall behind the tree that's top was clipped by flight 77, just the steel armco rail. And there's so many of those gates he's lost. There is a gate every hundred feet in that HOV barrier alone. Not including the other barrier with gates on 100 foot centers the east wall of the HOV lane.
It's a bit sad. I bet he spent a lot of time on that presentation.
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Old 8th January 2011, 05:13 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
It's a bit sad. I bet he spent a lot of time on that presentation.
Might as well put the nail in the coffin, The yellow ruler denotes the gate mechanism spacing, You can not see the gates themselves, But in street view you can, Its all quite obvious where the confusion came from. too many darn gates!! alot more than "THREE"

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Old 8th January 2011, 05:23 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by A W Smith View Post
Go back to 1999 or 2002 for hi res and you can see a whole row of gate mechanisms buried in the wide concrete median about every 100 feet, Llloyds cab is about 80 feet north of the sign catenary
OK, first of all I had to look up that word "catenary" - and as far as I can tell they are overhead wires for trains and such...so I have no idea why you insist on misusing a word nobody knows. Just call it what it is...a overhead sign.

Second, how in the hell do you figure the cab is 80 ft. north of the overhead sign?
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Old 8th January 2011, 05:26 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by A W Smith View Post
Might as well put the nail in the coffin, The yellow ruler denotes the gate mechanism spacing, You can not see the gates themselves, But in street view you can, Its all quite obvious where the confusion came from. too many darn gates!! alot more than "THREE"

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m.../lloydscab.jpg
You are honestly trying to tell me the cab is 80 ft north of the overhead sign? Look at the picture in post #245...that's 80 ft. away from the overhead sign?
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Old 8th January 2011, 05:32 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
You are honestly trying to tell me the cab is 80 ft north of the overhead sign? Look at the picture in post #245...that's 80 ft. away from the overhead sign?
absolutely. Could be closer to 100 feet, Again, you cannot grasp what a telephoto lens does to a photo,

http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/...mwood/ing3.jpg
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Old 8th January 2011, 05:36 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
You are honestly trying to tell me the cab is 80 ft north of the overhead sign? Look at the picture in post #245...that's 80 ft. away from the overhead sign?
It's not wise to try to determine distance (in a 2d photo) like you are. Your guessing.

Draw a line of sight through ALL of the available pictures onto an overhead view. You will find the cab is around ~80 feet north of the sign just south of the southern most boundary of the bridge.
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Old 8th January 2011, 05:44 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
The only difference is, I *know* I'm guessing....

Thanks for your educated guess. I agree with it. Telephoto lens would be impossible for location (2) anyway - behind the view is just a wall and a hill.

btw, a huge shout-out to the google alchemists who provide us with those amazing tools for free. Until now i wasn't aware of the history feature.

Carry on.
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Old 8th January 2011, 05:58 PM   #268
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Gate # 36 behind Lloyds cab
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Old 8th January 2011, 06:00 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by A W Smith View Post
Might as well put the nail in the coffin, The yellow ruler denotes the gate mechanism spacing, You can not see the gates themselves, But in street view you can, Its all quite obvious where the confusion came from. too many darn gates!! alot more than "THREE"

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m.../lloydscab.jpg

Actually, you can. They're in their lowered position (ETA: Well, that first one might not be). They're the white lines piercing the HOV lane.

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Old 8th January 2011, 06:12 PM   #270
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gate 36 on the south end of the bridge span, Which would be a view from LLoyds cab looking east

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Old 8th January 2011, 07:07 PM   #271
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Thanks A W - as if another nail was needed in mobertermy's coffin, his whole nonsense idea was debunked after a few posts, and has merely staggered around as a zombie since.

The following statement is still one of the most foolish and still a great illustration of the way Truthers get it ever so wrong - 'anyone can look at photo #3 and see that TA3 is unambiguously blocking the lane the cab is in'
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Old 8th January 2011, 08:06 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
Damn, I never even noticed that. The guy who was taking a picture was walking down a hill so it is possible he was just in a new location...so I'm not sure their abscence means anything, but if you figure anything out about them let me know.
The black poles populate the parking lots of the navy annex way over by Columbia pike, That should give you an indication of how severe the effect lenses have on the depth perception in two dimensional photographs,

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Old 8th January 2011, 08:39 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3...ydeengland.jpg

See that TA there...it is TA2...it can't be TA3 because you can see if the cab were moved a few feet to the right it would be past the overhead sig. Cab is between TA2 and TA3. Is that clear yet?

do you really believe that???? surely you cannot be this ignorant.
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Old 8th January 2011, 08:47 PM   #274
sheeplesnshills
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
OK, first of all I had to look up that word "catenary" - and as far as I can tell they are overhead wires for trains and such...so I have no idea why you insist on misusing a word nobody knows. Just call it what it is...a overhead sign.

Second, how in the hell do you figure the cab is 80 ft. north of the overhead sign?

You had to look up "catenary"?????? The train wires get their name from such structures not vice versa.
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Old 8th January 2011, 08:50 PM   #275
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Second, how in the hell do you figure the cab is 80 ft. north of the overhead sign?[/quote]


because thats where it is in all the pictures. You keep mistaking the TA beside the cab T3 for the one beside the overhead sign catenary. Look at google earth!
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Old 8th January 2011, 08:52 PM   #276
sheeplesnshills
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Thanks for your educated guess. I agree with it. Telephoto lens would be impossible for location (2) anyway - behind the view is just a wall and a hill.

btw, a huge shout-out to the google alchemists who provide us with those amazing tools for free. Until now i wasn't aware of the history feature.

Carry on.

Impossible......LOL please show us the line of site that makes it impossible, we'll wait.

curious, have you ever owned a camera with a long (say 200mm) lens?
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Old 8th January 2011, 08:58 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by sheeplesnshills View Post
Impossible......LOL please show us the line of site that makes it impossible, we'll wait.

curious, have you ever owned a camera with a long (say 200mm) lens?
I believe the OP is referring to a different location altogether, not the location in the photo.
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Old 8th January 2011, 08:58 PM   #278
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Quote:
btw, a huge shout-out to the google alchemists who provide us with those amazing tools for free. Until now i wasn't aware of the history feature.

Carry on.
[/quote]

Yes its helped me debunk lots of truther nonsense over the last year or two. Its especially useful to show how CIT play their games.
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Old 8th January 2011, 09:03 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by Mobertermy View Post
Who said he was? I merely made a ppt that shows the photos were manipulated. Lloyde had maintained that and I proved it.
aaaaand... so what? If any of this is really true, what impact does this have?
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Old 8th January 2011, 09:45 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
I believe the OP is referring to a different location altogether, not the location in the photo.

Yes, this was just something i've spontaneously thrown into the room, for dissection and reference - and in reply to sheeplesnshills' incorrect posts. He has a problem with cognitive dissonance.
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