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Tags Dennis Hastert , politics scandals , rape charges , sex scandals

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Old 11th June 2015, 07:41 AM   #201
hgc
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Originally Posted by Trakar View Post
I'm under the impression that consent can only be properly given between individuals that are considered equal and equivalent under the law. This is the reason that individuals under eighteen cannot enter into binding contracts regardless of how much they really want to.

Your definition ("equal and equivalent") is extremely vague. No statute would leave it at that. That's statutory rape statues are very specific. In some states, the age of consent is below 18, or it also depends on the age of the adult party. I know of no case where 18 or above is not considered age of consent for sexual relations for otherwise cognitively fully functional persons. This does not address policies of for instance, school boards regarding relations between teachers and adult students.
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Old 11th June 2015, 09:13 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
A pedophile too? Where did you hear that?
He started having the relationship with "Person A" when that person was underage, that much has leaked out. And the sister of the other person who has been publicly mentioned says her late brother was underage when he had his first sexual experience with Hastert. And here in his former district, this was an open but not proven rumor for MANY years.
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Old 11th June 2015, 09:15 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
A pedophile too? Where did you hear that?
And of course there would be no wrongdoing to cover up had this not been rape of an underage person, now, would there? Revelations that he was merely queer would have been embarrassing to him, but not three million dollars worth of embarrassing!
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Old 11th June 2015, 09:20 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by hgc View Post
Your definition ("equal and equivalent") is extremely vague. No statute would leave it at that. That's statutory rape statues are very specific. In some states, the age of consent is below 18, or it also depends on the age of the adult party. I know of no case where 18 or above is not considered age of consent for sexual relations for otherwise cognitively fully functional persons. This does not address policies of for instance, school boards regarding relations between teachers and adult students.
In Illinois (not sure of the law back in the 70s) we have a different standard for those in a position of responsibility or authority;

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs...eqEnd=17300000
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Old 11th June 2015, 10:05 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by BenBurch View Post
He started having the relationship with "Person A" when that person was underage, that much has leaked out. And the sister of the other person who has been publicly mentioned says her late brother was underage when he had his first sexual experience with Hastert. And here in his former district, this was an open but not proven rumor for MANY years.
I'm disagreeing with your apparent understanding of the definition of pedophilia. It would not normally include an adult's sexual attraction to a high school student, regardless of whether or not that high school student was under the age of consent.
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Old 11th June 2015, 11:32 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
I'm disagreeing with your apparent understanding of the definition of pedophilia. It would not normally include an adult's sexual attraction to a high school student, regardless of whether or not that high school student was under the age of consent.
I get the distinction you are drawing but it makes little difference. I always think of "pedophiles" attracted to pre-puberty minors. Assuming the victim was 14 and had gone through puberty doesn't change anything legally, though: A 30-year-old man involved with a sexually mature 14-year-old is just as illegal.

If both parties are sexually mature and under 18, that's different.
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Old 11th June 2015, 12:28 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I get the distinction you are drawing but it makes little difference. I always think of "pedophiles" attracted to pre-puberty minors. Assuming the victim was 14 and had gone through puberty doesn't change anything legally, though: A 30-year-old man involved with a sexually mature 14-year-old is just as illegal.

If both parties are sexually mature and under 18, that's different.
Well, first I'm not sure that it's "just as illegal." I think a jury or judge might see a difference that will be reflected in the punishment. That was not really my point, though. Pedophilia is a psychological disorder. I don't think being sexually attracted to a sexually mature, underage teenager is a psychological disorder. Acting on that attraction of course is illegal, and I suppose could be characterized as a disorder in self-control. But I think it's a different kettle of fish entirely.
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Old 11th June 2015, 01:10 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
And I pointed out that it doesn't exist even there in most of America.
I'm sorry but i don't quite get what you are referring to. What "doesn't exist even there in most of America"? Is rape something that doesn't exist in America, even in law?

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But I must share others' puzzlement about your point. At first, I thought that your point was that Hastert's actions may have involved consensual sex, as opposed to the ordinary definition of rape. I'm not exactly sure why that's significant, but I can see some people thinking it is.

So that may be true, but even so, what's the bigger point? I mean, other than picking nits, what's the big deal about the distinction between consensual illegal sex and nonconsensual illegal sex?
Because i don't put much importance at what a law says or doesn't say, especially when said law may very well be completely contradictory to the one i happen to be living under at the moment.

What i do care about is knowing what he did and didn't do because i can then make up my own judgment of his actions, no matter how people label them, something which becomes quite difficult when people insist on treating "consensual illegal sex" and "nonconsensual illegal sex" as equivalent with not distinction.

Quote:
It still means Hastert is in a heap of trouble, and it still means that most people would hear about what he did and still consider him to be pond scum, quite apart from whatever it is the law has to say about his actions.
Oh I'm sure that there are plenty of Americans who'd want to decapitate him and burn his corpse for having gay sex.

Quote:
So, other than arguing semantics, is it really all that important whether Mr. Hastert is accused of rape, or merely of criminal sexual conduct?
It's a huge distinction in my mind. He, or anyone else for that matter, could very well have raped someone and been completely cleared by a court of law because it's not rape to forcibly have intercourse with ones wife even if they don't want to. Likewise he could have had consensual sex with a adult man in private yet at the same time been found guilty of sodomy or unnatural fornication against nature and god.

Hell go back a couple of decades ago and that could've happened. Hence why i don't put much emphasis on the arbitrary laws of the present. Since it wasn't until 2003 that sodomy laws were deemed to be unconstitutional throughout all of the US i have a hard time caring about the opinions of these people or their laws.
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Old 11th June 2015, 03:57 PM   #209
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It's no distinction whatsoever. He raped those boys. And I wish he could be jailed for that, but the statute of limitations rules here. (And they are looking to eliminate it for such crimes now, but that cannot be ex post facto.)
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Old 12th June 2015, 10:55 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Well, first I'm not sure that it's "just as illegal." I think a jury or judge might see a difference that will be reflected in the punishment.
The jury or judge will be constrained by the law. Some jurisdictions draw a distinction between "under 15" and "15 or older." But a 14-year-old is IMO off limits under either scenario.

Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
That was not really my point, though. Pedophilia is a psychological disorder. I don't think being sexually attracted to a sexually mature, underage teenager is a psychological disorder.
I get what you're saying, but even if your point is valid it is pretty much neutralized by the fact that teachers and coaches are presumably (and properly) held to a higher standard.

Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Acting on that attraction of course is illegal, and I suppose could be characterized as a disorder in self-control. But I think it's a different kettle of fish entirely.
However: Poor impulse control, denial of the harm done to others and the need to live a double life quite possibly do amount to a psychological disorder, or else are the setup for one. Look at the amounts allegedly paid out: 3.5 million dollars. I see Hastert as lacerated by shame. Whatever the law does to Hastert, he has already punished himself a great deal. Whether the kid had pubic hair, or was already sexually active, etc. might be fodder for Internet discussion but in context those questions are, IMO, pretty much irrelevant.
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Old 12th June 2015, 11:27 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
He, or anyone else for that matter, could very well have raped someone and been completely cleared by a court of law because it's not rape to forcibly have intercourse with ones wife even if they don't want to.
You couldn't be more wrong.
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Old 15th June 2015, 07:30 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I'm sorry but i don't quite get what you are referring to. What "doesn't exist even there in most of America"? Is rape something that doesn't exist in America, even in law?
I am saying that the word "rape" is pretty much antiquated in American law. Although it remains in common parlance, very few states have a crime called "rape", and fewer still have a crime called "statutory rape".

A lot of the previous discussion was discussing whether his behavior fits either the common definition of rape, or the legal definition of rape. What I was saying is that, actually, there is no legal definition of rape in most jurisdictions in America. The crimes that used to be called "rape" and "statutory rape", are now called variations of "sexual assault" or "criminal sexual conduct".


Quote:
What i do care about is knowing what he did and didn't do because i can then make up my own judgment of his actions, no matter how people label them, something which becomes quite difficult when people insist on treating "consensual illegal sex" and "nonconsensual illegal sex" as equivalent with not distinction.



Oh I'm sure that there are plenty of Americans who'd want to decapitate him and burn his corpse for having gay sex.
Ok. Actually, I think very few Americans would be outraged at him having gay sex. We're pretty much over that sort of thing, albeit with some exceptions. Some people would be outraged over his hypocrisy on the subject.

However, an awful lot of people would be outraged by a teacher having a sexual affair with a student, especially if the teacher is male, and the student is under 16 years of age. Legally, neither the gender of the student nor the teacher matters much, and the exact age at which some things become legal varies from one place to another, but pretty much everyone agrees that high school teachers having sex with students is Bad.

Quote:
It's a huge distinction in my mind. He, or anyone else for that matter, could very well have raped someone and been completely cleared by a court of law because it's not rape to forcibly have intercourse with ones wife even if they don't want to.
In America, that's just plain wrong. It's also wrong in a lot of the rest of the world, although not everywhere.

Quote:
Likewise he could have had consensual sex with a adult man in private yet at the same time been found guilty of sodomy or unnatural fornication against nature and god.
As you note, that could have been true in 2003, but not since then in America.





It seems as if you are saying that the law is not something you are concerned about. A lot of people (not including Hastert or his attorneys) would agree. However, it also seems as if you are saying that a consensual affair with a young student would not be something you condemn strongly. If so, then yours is a minority opinion. Most people, including me, would find such behavior reprehensible.

Of course, you are entitled to your opinions, and unpopular opinions may be correct. I'm just saying that if your opinion is what it seems to be, your opinion isn't shared by many.
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Old 23rd October 2015, 01:01 AM   #213
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Pedophiles Run the Government and No One Gives a Damn

Here's a roundtable discussion about this or "the real Hastert Case" as they call it among James Corbett, Sibel Edmonds, Peter B. Collins and Wayne Madsen. Background information to read up on can be found here.

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I AGREE

Beside the specific, quite stomach-turning facts, they are touching on the question of why this can go on with no consequences. No question about the media and politicians etc, but is there something wrong with the people? Do we in "the West" (see UK, Belgium for other open scandals and many other places including Germany for not-so-open ones) really settle with accepting that our "elites" are interspersed with child abusers and that information is used to blackmail, not prosecute them?
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Last edited by Childlike Empress; 23rd October 2015 at 01:19 AM. Reason: wrong word, bribe -> blackmail
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Old 24th October 2015, 10:47 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Here's a roundtable discussion about this or "the real Hastert Case" as they call it among James Corbett, Sibel Edmonds, Peter B. Collins and Wayne Madsen. Background information to read up on can be found here.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

Beside the specific, quite stomach-turning facts, they are touching on the question of why this can go on with no consequences. No question about the media and politicians etc, but is there something wrong with the people? Do we in "the West" (see UK, Belgium for other open scandals and many other places including Germany for not-so-open ones) really settle with accepting that our "elites" are interspersed with child abusers and that information is used to blackmail, not prosecute them?
tl:dw
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Old 28th October 2015, 10:13 AM   #215
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Hastert pleads guilty in hush money case

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Washington (CNN) — Former House Speaker Dennis Hastert pleaded guilty Wednesday to structuring money transactions in a way to evade requirements to report where the money was going.

The money, investigators said, went to pay someone he had wronged $3.5 million in hush money.

In addition, Hastert was charged with making false statements to federal investigators.

As part of a plea deal, Hastert pleaded guilty only to the count of hiding money transactions.
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Old 1st November 2015, 08:01 AM   #216
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This jerk used to be my congressman. I am SO glad he is getting at least a small part of what he has coming to him.
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Old 5th May 2016, 05:35 PM   #217
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Nobody paying attention?

Originally Posted by Boiling Frogs Post
In the last week of April, the judge who sentenced former GOP Speaker Dennis Hastert to 15 months in jail described him accurately as a “serial child molester” while, perhaps unwittingly, he cemented in place the coverup of Hastert’s serious crimes (not limited to pedophilia) as a Congressman and Speaker. Sibel Edmonds has accurately, and courageously, exposed much more of the sordid history of Hastert; in over 9 months, no other media outlet we’re aware of has even raised the most obvious question: did Hastert stop molesting boys when he went to Washington? Edmonds knows that the FBI and CIA videotaped many of his sexual adventures, strong evidence that Hastert’s conviction for lying about structured transactions is the most serious attempt at a “limited hangout” coverup since Nixon. So far, it’s holding nicely for its creators.

Listen!
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Old 6th May 2016, 04:22 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Nobody paying attention?




Listen!
In DC he hired rent boys. 18+ but looking younger. This according to the same source who told me about the abuse allegations 15 years ago.
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Old 7th May 2016, 08:49 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Nobody paying attention?




Listen!
Conspiracy Theory subforum is available here.
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