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Tags michael jackson , sex scandals

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Old 10th March 2019, 01:17 PM   #721
Elagabalus
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It seems that he was a pedophile with a strict interest in boys. He also modified himself to look like a woman.

It looks like a female cougar preying on young boys. From the boy's perspective, Jackson was something like a woman with a penis. There was almost no masculinity at all.

Michael Jackson was probably always gay or trans and simply had no sexual interest in females or adult males.
Wtf!
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Old 10th March 2019, 01:23 PM   #722
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
I've done all of the above. Because the kid(s) belonged to an ex or my sister. Because sometimes letting them lay down on my shoulder was the easiest way to get them to go to sleep so I could get some alone time with their mother(s). Or because my sister was sick, sleepless, and at wit's end trying to get her kids down.
Do those circumstances apply in the MJ case? Did you do it on a score or more of consecutive nights?
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Old 10th March 2019, 01:30 PM   #723
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
This asexual wants to know why everything has to be about sex.

DNA.
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Old 10th March 2019, 01:35 PM   #724
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
It's perfectly nice and wholesome to sleep in the same bed as a young boy. Not out of necessity mind you, but simply because it's so nice to touch, smell and feel them. No one should hesitate to leave their kids completely alone with a person who admitted doing so. Just like i wouldn't suspect someones wife or husband of infidelity if they were to sleep together with someone other than their spouse. There's no reason to assume that it isn't perfectly innocent.

Note: This is what MJ fans really believe.
Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
I've done all of the above. Because the kid(s) belonged to an ex or my sister. Because sometimes letting them lay down on my shoulder was the easiest way to get them to go to sleep so I could get some alone time with their mother(s). Or because my sister was sick, sleepless, and at wit's end trying to get her kids down. In at least one case because the kid was autistic, wore a diaper, and smelling them was sometimes the easiest way to determine whether they had soiled themselves. I've even taken showers with kids and stripped naked in front of kids that were not my own before (context: Family changing rooms at a swimming pool; kids young enough not to be trustworthy by themselves).

Obviously, I must be a pedophile, right? Grow the **** up.
You missed the highlighted bit in your leap to outraged indignation.
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Old 10th March 2019, 01:40 PM   #725
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
He probably did have a horrible childhood.

He also messed with little boys

Well, after watching the film, I wonder if he actually DID have a horrible childhood or that was the line he fed everyone to gain more access to young children.
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Old 10th March 2019, 01:44 PM   #726
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
You missed the highlighted bit in your leap to outraged indignation.
Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Do those circumstances apply in the MJ case? Did you do it on a score or more of consecutive nights?
Do you have the slightest miserable clue what the context was in the MJ case? I didn't think so.

Last edited by Shadowdweller; 10th March 2019 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 10th March 2019, 01:50 PM   #727
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Wtf!
WTF?
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Old 10th March 2019, 01:54 PM   #728
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
WTF?
2X!
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Old 10th March 2019, 02:04 PM   #729
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
Do you have the slightest miserable clue what the context was in the MJ case? I didn't think so.
You sought to excuse Jackson's actions by referring to your own experiences. So, care to answer my question?
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Old 10th March 2019, 02:06 PM   #730
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Well, after watching the film, I wonder if he actually DID have a horrible childhood or that was the line he fed everyone to gain more access to young children.
Could have been both.
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Old 10th March 2019, 02:40 PM   #731
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
I've done all of the above. Because the kid(s) belonged to an ex or my sister. Because sometimes letting them lay down on my shoulder was the easiest way to get them to go to sleep so I could get some alone time with their mother(s). Or because my sister was sick, sleepless, and at wit's end trying to get her kids down. In at least one case because the kid was autistic, wore a diaper, and smelling them was sometimes the easiest way to determine whether they had soiled themselves. I've even taken showers with kids and stripped naked in front of kids that were not my own before (context: Family changing rooms at a swimming pool; kids young enough not to be trustworthy by themselves).

Obviously, I must be a pedophile, right? Grow the **** up.
Should i take that as an admission that you'd be fine with your 9 year old son not just spending the night at the Neverland ranch with Michael Jackson, practically alone, but also allow them to sleep together in the same bed? I'm sure it would be very comfortable and cozy. Good for bonding too. Nothing beats bonding the way only two guys can.
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Old 10th March 2019, 02:43 PM   #732
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Could have been both.

His father argued that it was false to say that he beat Michael as a child because he always used a belt or a strap.

His argument was that it's only "beating" a child if you use a stick.
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Old 10th March 2019, 02:51 PM   #733
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
This asexual wants to know why everything has to be about sex.
MJ was not asexual.
For someone who is not asexual sex comes up surprisingly often in your life, year, month, day, hour.
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Old 10th March 2019, 03:31 PM   #734
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It seems that he was a pedophile with a strict interest in boys. He also modified himself to look like a woman.

It looks like a female cougar preying on young boys. From the boy's perspective, Jackson was something like a woman with a penis. There was almost no masculinity at all.

Michael Jackson was probably always gay or trans and simply had no sexual interest in females or adult males.
Oh, that's a lot of baggage you are bringing.

I wouldn't go as far as you have as I can't read minds, but the sleeping with young boys thing is definitely a bad thing, it should have been picked up on earlier.
If it was young girls it might have been.
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Old 10th March 2019, 03:38 PM   #735
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
Do you have the slightest miserable clue what the context was in the MJ case? I didn't think so.
Maybe you could deign to offer some miserable enlightenment.
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Old 10th March 2019, 03:55 PM   #736
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
This asexual wants to know why everything has to be about sex.
Not everything. Unless the bed is big enough for everyone to have sufficient personal space, willingly sleeping together in the same bed is something that's just one level below the intimacy of sex. Two (or more) people laying together naked or in their underwear... that generally has sexual undertones. Hell even if one is fully clothed that is really intimate and would imply huge amounts of trust.

Of course there are exceptions, like with parents and guardians sleeping together with their young children, but they most likely certainly do not apply in this case.
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Old 10th March 2019, 08:24 PM   #737
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Not everything. Unless the bed is big enough for everyone to have sufficient personal space, willingly sleeping together in the same bed is something that's just one level below the intimacy of sex. Two (or more) people laying together naked or in their underwear... that generally has sexual undertones. Hell even if one is fully clothed that is really intimate and would imply huge amounts of trust.

Of course there are exceptions, like with parents and guardians sleeping together with their young children, but they most likely certainly do not apply in this case.
One thing I recall from the Martin Bashir interview with the kid (that really started all this), was the kid shrugging and saying "It's a big bed..." Later on I saw a picture of the room and the bed in question was the size of a football field (only slightly exaggerated). It doesn't exonerate MJ but the reality of the picture was much different from what I and I'm sure most people had in their heads.
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Old 10th March 2019, 10:47 PM   #738
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I don’t care if my kid caught the attention of a huge star that can do great things for my kid’s career: There is no way I’m letting my kid spend the night at his house alone and in his bed.

How did no one see such things as problematic? There are two sets of parents on the show and none of them were at all concerned? And to what end? Is there any kid who got a boost from being in MJs circle?

I can’t know for sure that there was any abuse. What I can see is that MJ had a fascination for young boys. He had many of them in his life at various times. That would not fly for just about anyone else on the planet. What made people just trust MJ?


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Old 10th March 2019, 11:48 PM   #739
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I don’t care if my kid caught the attention of a huge star that can do great things for my kid’s career: There is no way I’m letting my kid spend the night at his house alone and in his bed.

How did no one see such things as problematic? There are two sets of parents on the show and none of them were at all concerned? And to what end? Is there any kid who got a boost from being in MJs circle?

I can’t know for sure that there was any abuse. What I can see is that MJ had a fascination for young boys. He had many of them in his life at various times. That would not fly for just about anyone else on the planet. What made people just trust MJ?


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If you watch the show they kind of answer that. MJ is a much more insidious presence in the children's lives.
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Old 10th March 2019, 11:52 PM   #740
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I don’t care if my kid caught the attention of a huge star that can do great things for my kid’s career: There is no way I’m letting my kid spend the night at his house alone and in his bed.

How did no one see such things as problematic? There are two sets of parents on the show and none of them were at all concerned? And to what end? Is there any kid who got a boost from being in MJs circle?

I can’t know for sure that there was any abuse. What I can see is that MJ had a fascination for young boys. He had many of them in his life at various times. That would not fly for just about anyone else on the planet. What made people just trust MJ?


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A lot of people did.

Even I was pointing it out.

But at the time he was pretty much the top point of the triangle that is the entertainment world.

Complete with the millions in cash, the teams of the best lawyers in the world and the industry wide power that came with it.

Like Weinstein, but bigger.
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Old 11th March 2019, 03:48 AM   #741
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Yeah, that's not a technicality either.
Also, it was a civil case rather than a criminal trial.

ETA: This HP article seems to give an honest appraisal of what was actually in his "porn stash."

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Old 11th March 2019, 04:39 AM   #742
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A good way to neutralize the biases of celebrity and stardom is by simply imagining the same situation with someone else taking the place of Jackson.

What if it was the middle age man who lives down the street? Your young son or daughter has somehow developed a close and seemingly affectionate relationship with them born out of admiration. He gives them gifts and showers them with affection. Then they ask whether they can sleep over at his place.

That's so nice and cute isn't it? A real heartwarming love story.
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Old 11th March 2019, 05:44 AM   #743
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Also, it was a civil case rather than a criminal trial.

ETA: This HP article seems to give an honest appraisal of what was actually in his "porn stash."
Thank-you for the link. I find that article to be a very good summation of the facts as I recall them in the days the trial was happening.
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Old 11th March 2019, 06:00 AM   #744
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
A good way to neutralize the biases of celebrity and stardom is by simply imagining the same situation with someone else taking the place of Jackson.

What if it was the middle age man who lives down the street? Your young son or daughter has somehow developed a close and seemingly affectionate relationship with them born out of admiration. He gives them gifts and showers them with affection. Then they ask whether they can sleep over at his place.

That's so nice and cute isn't it? A real heartwarming love story.
Well said.
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Old 11th March 2019, 06:11 AM   #745
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Dude's been dead damn near a decade. What's the plan dig up his body and put it on trail Pope Formosus style?
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Old 11th March 2019, 06:23 AM   #746
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
A good way to neutralize the biases of celebrity and stardom is by simply imagining the same situation with someone else taking the place of Jackson.

What if it was the middle age man who lives down the street? Your young son or daughter has somehow developed a close and seemingly affectionate relationship with them born out of admiration. He gives them gifts and showers them with affection. Then they ask whether they can sleep over at his place.

That's so nice and cute isn't it? A real heartwarming love story.

Jackson did have issues with boundaries; to be certain. He did a lot of damage to himself when he publicly stated he thought it should be okay to sleep with a child.

But did he ever publicly claim that he did, in fact, sleep with any children once he became an adult?*

I can't find a transcript of what he actually said, but the way I recall it, he said he slept on the floor.

*Granting that unless he did something improper, AFAIK simply sleeping with a child isn't illegal.
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Old 11th March 2019, 06:25 AM   #747
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Dude's been dead damn near a decade. What's the plan dig up his body and put it on trail Pope Formosus style?
I think the plan is just to continue making money at his family's expense.
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Old 11th March 2019, 06:31 AM   #748
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
This asexual wants to know why everything has to be about sex.
The vast majority of people are not asexual. So to them sex is quite important.

Feel kinda condescending explaining that, but for some reason you asked.
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Old 11th March 2019, 06:32 AM   #749
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Are we supposed to somehow be talking about sexual assault without talking about sex?
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Old 11th March 2019, 06:39 AM   #750
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Dude's been dead damn near a decade. What's the plan dig up his body and put it on trail Pope Formosus style?
All that is left is his memory, if he sucked tarnish it.
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Old 11th March 2019, 06:39 AM   #751
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
I think the plan is just to continue making money at his family's expense.
I think the ones most at risk of losing money are the Jackson family itself.
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Old 11th March 2019, 06:43 AM   #752
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I think the ones most at risk of losing money are the Jackson family itself.
I agree. At this point, the real facts are gone and buried, and the ones left -especially his children- need to be allowed to let go and move on.
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Old 11th March 2019, 06:48 AM   #753
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
I agree. At this point, the real facts are gone and buried, and the ones left -especially his children- need to be allowed to let go and move on.
If anyone is harassing them (legal definition) they should be charged.

If not it is Jackson that caused them the strife by taking the actions that he did. Don't want your family hassled? Maybe don't be the world's most famous dirty old man.
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Old 11th March 2019, 06:48 AM   #754
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
I agree. At this point, the real facts are gone and buried, and the ones left -especially his children- need to be allowed to let go and move on.
And his alleged victims? They should have the grace to move on too?
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Old 11th March 2019, 06:52 AM   #755
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Dude's been dead damn near a decade. What's the plan dig up his body and put it on trail Pope Formosus style?
Maybe just get the word out? No one dug up Jimmy Savile when the allegations came out (after a year) so no worries on that front.
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Old 11th March 2019, 07:06 AM   #756
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
And his alleged victims? They should have the grace to move on too?
Do any of them have any proof of his wrongdoing?

The man was ACQUITTED of all the charges against him.

It's the court of public opinion that continues to try him -again, and again, and again- while never quite making it to an actual courtroom.

Do not think for a moment that I'm without sympathy for any actual victims of child abuse.

However, I do believe it's a fundamental duty for us to all be skeptical until there's genuine evidence to be evaluated, and it goes triple when someone is able to make a fortune just selling the stories, and become wealthy for a lifetime if they receive any kind of settlement or payoff.
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Old 11th March 2019, 08:55 AM   #757
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
Jackson did have issues with boundaries; to be certain. He did a lot of damage to himself when he publicly stated he thought it should be okay to sleep with a child.
His admissions make him come off as a stereotypical pedophile child predator. He defensively brushed off everyone who saw his behavior as highly inappropriate as "ignorant". Ignorant of what? That healthy non-pedophiles don't seek out young children, shower them with affection, get close to them emotionally to the point of physical intimacy is not objected to and finally sleep together with them?

Quote:
But did he ever publicly claim that he did, in fact, sleep with any children once he became an adult?*

I can't find a transcript of what he actually said, but the way I recall it, he said he slept on the floor.
He said he "slept in a bed with many children" and specifically mentioned Macauley Culkin and his sister. Macauley Culkin admitted that in court but denied he was sexually molested which, even if he didn't lie, is very strong evidence that is attraction towards children was sexual.

Quote:
*Granting that unless he did something improper, AFAIK simply sleeping with a child isn't illegal.
Well then maybe we should honor Michael Jackson's call for there to more love and more heart in the world, which is how he justified his behavior. Have the operators and personnel of orphanages sleep together with their charges. Bring one of them in their own private quarters and have them spend the night in their warm embrace.

If someone objects to this then they can be dismissed as ignorant fools because of "love"... what a ******* joke.
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Last edited by Arcade22; 11th March 2019 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 11th March 2019, 08:57 AM   #758
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Quote:
He said he slept "slept in a bed with many children" and specifically mentioned Macauley Culkin and his sister.
Do you have a link for that?
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Old 11th March 2019, 09:03 AM   #759
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Macauley Culkin admitted that in court but denied he was sexually molested which, even if he didn't lie, is very strong evidence that is attraction towards children was sexual.
How does that part work?
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Old 11th March 2019, 09:11 AM   #760
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
Do you have a link for that?
https://youtu.be/4smiXbCyAkM?t=51
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