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Tags Iowa politics , racism charges , racism issues , republicans , Steve King , white nationalism , white nationalists

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Old 15th January 2019, 08:32 AM   #321
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Well, I will certainly turn my back on him when he speaks in the House. That is, if I can figure out which way is facing away from him and when he is speaking.

That is my point. Your asking me to do those things to demonstrate my opposition to Steve King is like me asking you to stand up against Bob Menendez. You're not in Menendez's district and I'm not in King's. And yes, I know that the sin of racism (which is not a crime) is much worse than the crime of corruption. OTOH, Mendendez is a Senator, not a representative.
When attempting some not-so-stealth whataboutism, I'm not sure bringing up corruption is the best strategy for a Republican.
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Old 15th January 2019, 09:10 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Well, I will certainly turn my back on him when he speaks in the House. That is, if I can figure out which way is facing away from him and when he is speaking.

That is my point. Your asking me to do those things to demonstrate my opposition to Steve King is like me asking you to stand up against Bob Menendez. You're not in Menendez's district and I'm not in King's. And yes, I know that the sin of racism (which is not a crime) is much worse than the crime of corruption. OTOH, Mendendez is a Senator, not a representative.
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Old 15th January 2019, 10:32 AM   #323
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I won't be sad to see Steve King go, but I strongly suspect that he did not say what the New York Times attributed to him. If they ever release the audio of the interview, I think we'll see that. The New York Times quoted him as saying, “White nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?” I doubt he said it at all.

As it turns out, punctuation matters. I suspect what he actually said was,

"(some sentence that ends with) white nationalist, white supremacist. Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?”

I hope that at some point the NYT releases unedited audio.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 15th January 2019 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 15th January 2019, 10:44 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I won't be sad to see Steve King go, but I strongly suspect that he did not say what the New York Times attributed to him. If they ever release the audio of the interview, I think we'll see that. The New York Times quoted him as saying, “White nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?” I doubt he said it at all.

As it turns out, punctuation matters. I suspect what he actually said was,

"(some sentence that ends with) white nationalist, white supremacist. Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?”

I hope that at some point the NYT releases unedited audio.
Maybe. I can't imagine the context in which "Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?” works as a stand alone sentence, though, immediately preceded by a sentence ending in the rest of it.
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Old 15th January 2019, 10:49 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Maybe. I can't imagine the context in which "Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?” works as a stand alone sentence, though, immediately preceded by a sentence ending in the rest of it.
I can as a purely theoretical exercise, but I don't buy.

Example:
"People have started assuming the everything our country and culture stand for is wrong. PC gone mad assuming that the bad taints the good. They have begun conflating anything traditional, any aspect of our western civilization as being somehow "white nationalist, white supremacist." Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?"


Again: this is purely theoretical, and I am firmly in the "Steve King has proven himself racist over and over" camp.
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Last edited by beren; 15th January 2019 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 15th January 2019, 10:52 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I won't be sad to see Steve King go, but I strongly suspect that he did not say what the New York Times attributed to him. If they ever release the audio of the interview, I think we'll see that. The New York Times quoted him as saying, “White nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?” I doubt he said it at all.
Nonsense.

Given the consequences, if that is NOT what he said, then he would be screaming it from the rooftops. Especially in this era of "fake news", where the NYT is being accused of fake news from the right all the friggin time, but these comments, which you think are fake, he is notably silent, even after getting stripped of his committees?

You are crazy.
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Old 15th January 2019, 10:59 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by beren View Post
I can as a purely theoretical exercise, but I don't buy.

Example:
"People have started assuming the everything our country and culture stand for is wrong. PC gone mad assuming that the bad taints the good. They have begun conflating anything traditional, any aspect of our western civilization as being somehow "white nationalist, white supremacist." Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?"


Again: this is purely theoretical, and I firmly in the "Steve King has proven himself racist over and over" camp.
After looking over some of his previous remarks, I'm joining your camp.

This dude is no mere, garden-variety racist. He's a pretty open, overt white supremacist.

No idea what his full quote in context was, but it's highly likely that whatever it was, was just as bad as the snippet, which is why he hasn't clarified the matter.
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Old 15th January 2019, 11:23 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Nonsense.

Given the consequences, if that is NOT what he said, then he would be screaming it from the rooftops. Especially in this era of "fake news", where the NYT is being accused of fake news from the right all the friggin time, but these comments, which you think are fake, he is notably silent, even after getting stripped of his committees?

You are crazy.
He has. You didn't read that? Neither have most people.
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Old 15th January 2019, 11:33 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
He has. You didn't read that? Neither have most people.
Yeah, I just found that. It looks like this is his story:

(Dubious website known to fabricate actual fake news, but I can buy that this was a real interview, I guess)
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...ons-of-racism/

Quote:
One of my quotes in a New York Times story has been completely mischaracterized. Here’s the context I believe accurately reflects my statement.

In a 56 minute interview, we discussed the changing use of language in political discourse. We discussed the worn out label “racist” and my observation that other slanderous labels have been increasingly assigned to Conservatives by the Left, who injected into our current political dialog such terms as Nazi, Fascist, “ White Nationalist, White Supremacist,— Western Civilization, how did THAT language become offensive? Why did I sit in classes teaching me about the merits of our history and our civilization?”…just to watch Western Civilization become a derogatory term in political discourse today. Clearly, I was only referencing Western Civilization classes. No one ever sat in a class listening to the merits of white nationalism and white supremacy.

When I used the word “THAT” it was in reference ONLY to Western Civilization and NOT to any previously stated evil ideology ALL of which I have denounced.

My record as a vocal advocate for Western Civilization is nearly as full as my record in defense of Freedom of Speech.
It would be nice to hear the actual audio from gatewaypundit, too, though. It's not all that out there to think they might have doctored that transcript, assuming the interview really even happened.
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Old 15th January 2019, 11:38 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I won't be sad to see Steve King go, but I strongly suspect that he did not say what the New York Times attributed to him. If they ever release the audio of the interview, I think we'll see that. The New York Times quoted him as saying, “White nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?” I doubt he said it at all.

As it turns out, punctuation matters. I suspect what he actually said was,

"(some sentence that ends with) white nationalist, white supremacist. Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?”

I hope that at some point the NYT releases unedited audio.
Given the following quotes

Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
OK. Give me your top five actual quotes of his.
https://www.weeklystandard.com/adam-...grants-as-dirt



Quote:
I guess I’m going to have to go and get some dirt from Mexico to grow the next batch.”

[Laughs]

Audience member: Trust me, it’s already on its way.

Steve King: Well, yeah, there’s plenty of dirt, it’s coming from the West Coast, too. And a lot of other places, besides. This is the most dirt we’ve ever seen.
Quote:
“We add to our population approximately 1.8 million of ‘somebody else’s babies’ who are raised in another culture before they get to us. We are replacing our American culture 2 to 1 every year.”
Quote:
“This whole ‘white people’ business, though, does get a little tired, Charlie. I mean, I’d ask you to go back through history and figure out, where are these contributions that have been made by these other categories of people that you’re talking about? Where did any other subgroup of people contribute to civilization?"
Quote:
Faith Goldy, an excellent candidate for Toronto mayor, pro Rule of Law, pro Make Canada Safe Again, pro balanced budget, &...BEST of all, Pro Western Civilization and a fighter for our values. @FaithGoldy will not be silenced. https://t.co/uqkeaUjm7i
Faith Goldy has appeared on podcasts by the Daily Stormer. She is more explicit in her idea of white genocide

For every DREAMer
Quote:
“who’s a valedictorian, there’s another 100 out there who weigh 130 pounds and they’ve got calves the size of cantaloupes because they’re hauling 75 pounds of marijuana across the desert.”
He also likes European white supremacists. Mark Collett who previously stated that AIDS is a “friendly disease because blacks, drug users and gays have it,” and "Jews have been thrown out of every country" and that it's "not just persecution: there's no smoke without fire."

Now maybe King is less careful about his political fellow travellers than I am, but if I wanted to defend myself from accusations of white supremacy, I wouldn't tweet support for so many.

Is it more likely that he or the New York Times is lying?
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Old 15th January 2019, 11:38 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Yeah, I just found that. It looks like this is his story:

(Dubious website known to fabricate actual fake news, but I can buy that this was a real interview, I guess)
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...ons-of-racism/



It would be nice to hear the actual audio from gatewaypundit, too, though. It's not all that out there to think they might have doctored that transcript, assuming the interview really even happened.
The statement from the gateway pundit did not originate with them. They were quoting from King's Twitter feed.
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Old 15th January 2019, 11:42 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
The statement from the gateway pundit did not originate with them. They were quoting from King's Twitter feed.
Oh, you're right. I was misreading. My bad.

Twitter link here:

https://twitter.com/stevekingia
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Old 15th January 2019, 11:48 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Given the following quotes




Is it more likely that he or the New York Times is lying?

Not only that, but King has a history of accusing reporters of lying about what he said, only to be proven wrong when the audio is released.

But by all means, let’s give the lying racist the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 15th January 2019, 11:49 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Given the following quotes




Is it more likely that he or the New York Times is lying?
I wish there was no need to speculate. The nyt should release the audio.


I became suspicious as soon as I read the quote. "White supremacists" has had a pretty negative connotation ever since I can remember, which means about the early 70's. I find it hard to believe that any politician, even one as tone deaf as Steve king, could possibly ask that question. It didn't make sense. I started looking around for context. When I saw that no one, including the nyt, published the context, I became more suspicious. I then came up with the theory that the punctuation was wrong. When I saw King's statement, I decided to share my Great Thoughts here.
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Old 15th January 2019, 11:56 AM   #335
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He should be thrown out of office for misspelling "dialogue" in his tweet.

He's a white supremacist, and would be shunned in polite company. In the off-season, this schmuck tools around Europe meeting with the other proponents of "Western Civilization," all of whom are racist fascist jerks too.
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Old 15th January 2019, 11:56 AM   #336
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Given the following quotes




Is it more likely that he or the New York Times is lying?
He's so demonstrably an actual white supremacist, I kinda don't care what he really said. Doesn't matter. It's definitely closely in line with how he believes.
This quote in particular:

Quote:
“This whole ‘white people’ business, though, does get a little tired, Charlie. I mean, I’d ask you to go back through history and figure out, where are these contributions that have been made by these other categories of people that you’re talking about? Where did any other sub-group of people contribute to civilization?”
Is there a phrase that describes the opposite of the "benefit of the doubt"? There should be, and that's what he deserves.

"The well-deserved disadvantage of total cynicism."
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Old 15th January 2019, 11:59 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
But by all means, let’s give the lying racist the benefit of the doubt.
Ha, crosspost!
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Old 15th January 2019, 12:05 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Not only that, but King has a history of accusing reporters of lying about what he said, only to be proven wrong when the audio is released.
Ah, yes I liked that story - I think that might have been in one of my links.

The upside is that even quite overt racists feel the need to deny their racism.
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Old 15th January 2019, 12:06 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I wish there was no need to speculate. The nyt should release the audio.


I became suspicious as soon as I read the quote. "White supremacists" has had a pretty negative connotation ever since I can remember, which means about the early 70's. I find it hard to believe that any politician, even one as tone deaf as Steve king, could possibly ask that question. It didn't make sense. I started looking around for context. When I saw that no one, including the nyt, published the context, I became more suspicious. I then came up with the theory that the punctuation was wrong. When I saw King's statement, I decided to share my Great Thoughts here.
All you need to do is understand that in the white nationalist echo chamber he lives in this is normal. Why should it be shocking that a person known for speaking at white nationalist events would hold white nationalist sentiments?
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Old 15th January 2019, 12:07 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Ah, yes I liked that story - I think that might have been in one of my links.

The upside is that even quite overt racists feel the need to deny their racism.
It gives folks like meadmaker plausible deniability when they defend them.
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Old 15th January 2019, 12:23 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
It gives folks like meadmaker plausible deniability when they defend them.
In fairness, I think Meadmaker's having a "look what political discourse has become" day. It's like a bad hair day only it's about political discourse instead of hair.

And King's not going anywhere!!

Steve King tweets:

"Mr. President @RealDonaldTrump if the time comes that it is necessary for you declare a state of emergency for border security, build the whole wall out of concrete. Let it stand forever as a monument to the Rule of Law".
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Old 15th January 2019, 12:25 PM   #342
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Good point, Mr. King. Concrete walls are known for standing forever.
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Old 15th January 2019, 12:27 PM   #343
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Rep @SteveKingIA: “13 words have caused this firestorm.”
He knows exactly what he's doing.
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Old 15th January 2019, 12:29 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
It gives folks like meadmaker plausible deniability when they defend them.
Could you please explain what you mean by "folks like meadmaker"?
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Old 15th January 2019, 12:32 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Read the link, googled the quote, and I don't get it. What is the significance of 13 words?
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Old 15th January 2019, 12:32 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
I'm lost. Is it a reference to this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words
How?
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Old 15th January 2019, 12:33 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Could you please explain what you mean by "folks like meadmaker"?
People defending Steve King in this thread. I mean seriously why is this statement a big deal? He has spoken at white nationalist events before and made is thoughts on the matter clear. So why does this statement that is totally in character get defended as well he didn't really mean that?

Next it will be that white nationalists claiming the Tucker Carlson is using their talking points and the fact that he using their talking points are totally meaningless events.
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Old 15th January 2019, 12:33 PM   #348
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If the NYT misrepresented what King said, he would be vociferously demanding they release the audio recording. I've seen no such demand from him as of now.
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Old 15th January 2019, 01:10 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
If the NYT misrepresented what King said, he would be vociferously demanding they release the audio recording. I've seen no such demand from him as of now.
If he makes no such request, I would tend to agree. We will see what developes.

I remain skeptical, but the story hasn't run its course.
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Old 15th January 2019, 01:15 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
People defending Steve King in this thread. I mean seriously why is this statement a big deal? He has spoken at white nationalist events before and made is thoughts on the matter clear. So why does this statement that is totally in character get defended as well he didn't really mean that?

Next it will be that white nationalists claiming the Tucker Carlson is using their talking points and the fact that he using their talking points are totally meaningless events.
So, me and....who?

Who else is "like meadmake"?

As for Tucker Carlson, I don't think that's really on topic.

ETA:. And, a story in which King was exposed after denying a statement would give "people like meadmaker" plausible deniability? That makes no sense.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 15th January 2019 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 15th January 2019, 01:55 PM   #351
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Is King on record making inflammatory statements that align with white supremacist ideology? Constantly.

Has he endorsed a neo-nazi in an election? Yes.

Has he otherwise cavorted with supremacists / neo nazis? Yes.

Were his recent words taken out of context? Conceivably.

Does this recent incident make an iota of difference in how we should asses King on these matters? Not particularly.
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Old 15th January 2019, 02:46 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
If he makes no such request, I would tend to agree. We will see what developes.

I remain skeptical, but the story hasn't run its course.
What plausible reason could there be for him not to have already demanded it? He's been kicked off all 3 of his committees, the House is preparing to vote on a resolution of disapproval, and King has addressed the House from the floor. He made no demand for a release of the interview audio.
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Old 15th January 2019, 02:54 PM   #353
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I agree with Varwoche, King has a history of saying things that are inflammatory vaguely to clearly racist. If the times took his recent statements out of context or misrepresented them, my opinion of King will not change. I will have a slightly more negative view of the times however.

The thing with defending King, is that its difficult to defend the indefensible. He's got a primary challenger and has been widely condemned by his fellow Repubs, deservedly so.

Last edited by ahhell; 15th January 2019 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 15th January 2019, 03:08 PM   #354
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On the downside, Mitt Romney, by calling on King to resign, gets to bolster his credentials as moderate adult in the room with little to no risk.
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Old 15th January 2019, 03:26 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Is King on record making inflammatory statements that align with white supremacist ideology? Constantly.

Has he endorsed a neo-nazi in an election? Yes.

Has he otherwise cavorted with supremacists / neo nazis? Yes.

Were his recent words taken out of context? Conceivably.

Does this recent incident make an iota of difference in how we should asses King on these matters? Not particularly.

Has he previously made racist comments in a meeting and denied making them and attacked the newspaper that reported them as fake then found that the newspaper had audio evidence?
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Old 15th January 2019, 03:34 PM   #356
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Did anyone note the comment:

“The N.R.C.C. does not get involved in primaries and isn’t going to comment on a hypothetical general election two years away,”

?

The election in two years is a hypothetical?
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Old 15th January 2019, 03:37 PM   #357
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Good point, Mr. King. Concrete walls are known for standing forever.
And nobody EVER gets past them.
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Old 15th January 2019, 03:53 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
And nobody EVER gets past them.
Remember that the biggest critic of Trump since 2016 was Trump's earlier words?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...4-speech-video
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US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 15th January 2019, 04:16 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
So, me and....who?

Who else is "like meadmake"?

As for Tucker Carlson, I don't think that's really on topic.

ETA:. And, a story in which King was exposed after denying a statement would give "people like meadmaker" plausible deniability? That makes no sense.
Be aware of who you are talking to.
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Old 15th January 2019, 04:19 PM   #360
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Not only that, but King has a history of accusing reporters of lying about what he said, only to be proven wrong when the audio is released.

But by all means, let’s give the lying racist the benefit of the doubt.
I'm all for giving benefit of the doubt, but in order to do so, there actually has to be doubt!
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