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Tags defamation cases , lawsuits , media criticism , Nathan Phillips , Nick Sandmann , protest incidents , racism charges

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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:56 AM   #521
thaiboxerken
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
So when do you suggest the mercy killings should start?
I'd like the MAGA people not to get enough power to start their final solution to the immigration problem.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:59 AM   #522
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I'm hardly extreme.
Few extremists call themselves that, like few pessimists call themselves that. They all say they're realists. Fortunately we have other people to judge them instead.

Quote:
I'm just calling it as it is. MAGA people need to be called out for their Nazi-like behavior, whether they are teenagers or not.
Ok I have to ask: what Nazi-like behaviour?

Quote:
The doxxing of these kids is disturbing. I think they simply should be called out and denounced as the hateful idiots that they are.
And what makes them hateful? The MAGA hats? Sounds a bit circular to me.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:00 AM   #523
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I'm hardly extreme. I'm just calling it as it is. MAGA people need to be called out for their Nazi-like behavior, whether they are teenagers or not.

The doxxing of these kids is disturbing. I think they simply should be called out and denounced as the hateful idiots that they are.
So why are you not out right now taking these kids out? What kind of coward are you?

I know if I honestly thought that the second/first largest political party (I don't remember if the Dems or Reps are 'bigger' in pure membership, think it was the Reps last time I checked but I'm not sure) in my country were literal Nazis I'd be doing something about it, not cause-gasming online about it.

You say they are Nazi but you're not treating them like Nazis.

That's the problem. Everybody is talking like it's the end of the world but acting like fanboys mad at the new film in the series.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:01 AM   #524
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
No. They only reason they aren't full Nazi is because they don't quite have the political power. It's not stopping them from trying, with the concentration camps at the border, imprisonment of a journalist, marginalization of non-white people and demonization of anyone that isn't them.
It's a good thing none of that stuff was happening before those Nazi Trump supporters voted.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:03 AM   #525
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
And what makes them hateful? The MAGA hats? Sounds a bit circular to me.
One only need to observe what they support. The rounding up of children into prison camps, the marginalization of non-white people, the hatred of homosexuals, and the support of a would-be authoritarian president.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:03 AM   #526
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I'd like the MAGA people not to get enough power to start their final solution to the immigration problem.
I can assure you that your wet doomsday fantasy won't happen: the MAGA people, as you call them, have just lost power last November. Hell, even when they had, to quote logger, "all the power" they couldn't get anything of substance done except a tax cut. Sounds like they were paralysed even as they held everything in their hands.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:05 AM   #527
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
It's a good thing none of that stuff was happening before those Nazi Trump supporters voted.
That's some fallacious logic there, good job, maybe you should take over Huckabee Sanders job.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:05 AM   #528
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
One only need to observe what they support. The rounding up of children into prison camps, the marginalization of non-white people, the hatred of homosexuals, and the support of a would-be authoritarian president.
Got it. So when should we start the overthrow? When does the revolution commence? We do we pick up arms and take them out?

Or is your answer "Sure I 100% believe we are in the midst of basically a Nazi takeover of the government... but let's not do anything rash like... act like we actually think that."

Three days ago you posted about watching the Orville. How can you watch a sci-fi comedy show when you claim to believe that there are literal Nazis in your government. What kind of monster are you?
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:05 AM   #529
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post

Earlier in this thread (I think it was Angrysoba but I'm not 100% sure, mea culpa if I am wrong) brought up the point that at least the people... got outside and talked to people in the real world something a lot of people would do good to try every once and while.
Ah, yes, it was me. I think I referred to it as face-to-face banter, which is to say that the actual encounter was, for the most part, actually fairly harmless. There was even, I thought, an element of good-humouredness about it. Sure, there were some people saying some pretty bad things (in particular the Black Hebrew Israelites), but even then I didn't consider the BHI to be in any way violent or threatening.

This is in contrast to online reaction to the event which has been far more destructive, far more threatening and far more rancourous than anything that happened there.

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I would say talking to people of different views can be beneficial, but I wouldn't classify anything involving chanting, drumbeating, or rhythmic gestures as a genuine attempt to engage in dialogue. Those are displays of held opinions, not invitations to dialogue or a signal of openness to hearing other ideas.
No, perhaps not, but each in their own way was engaged in some kind of political demonstration. We don't have to agree with the motive for any of those political demonstrations, but again, these groups were not being violent or threatening. I think it is still a more beneficial form of political engagement than say doxing, making baseless, or at the very least flimsy, accusations of racism, and trying to get as outraged as possible online.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:06 AM   #530
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
One only need to observe what they support. The rounding up of children into prison camps, the marginalization of non-white people, the hatred of homosexuals, and the support of a would-be authoritarian president.
But do they support it? You don't know. You've oversimplified the problem because it's convenient for you to do so, but you forgot to test that against reality.

I have to echo Joe again and ask: who are you trying to convince that they're Nazis? Certainly not me; you've known me long enough to know I won't bite. Yourself? What would be the point? Other left-wingers here, to prove that you're on their side now and perpetually? That would be sad.

And that's why the idea of having a side at all has always been alien to me. Somehow you always need to provide proof that you're still on that side, 100% and on every issue, topic and question, for fear of becoming a pariah. That makes it sound like the "side" is not really united at all. Besides, I've always been a bit of a loner, so people not hanging out with me because I disagree on some trivial nonsense doesn't sound so bad to me.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:06 AM   #531
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Got it. So when should we start the overthrow?
It's already happening, they are losing the political battles all over the nation.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:07 AM   #532
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
But do they support it?
Yes! The fact that they still support Trump is proof of it.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:08 AM   #533
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
It's already happening, they are losing the political battles all over the nation.
Political battles? Against Nazis? That's insane.

Kill them all. Round them up. No mercy.

Put... your... money... where... your... mouth... is.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:08 AM   #534
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Yes! The fact that they still support Trump is proof of it.
No it isn't. I feel like you didn't read the post you just responded to, because apparently telling you that you're oversimplifying the issue didn't register.

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
It's already happening, they are losing the political battles all over the nation.
Sounds like your narrative that they hold political power and are poised to enact their final solution was a bit premature.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:11 AM   #535
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Polical battles? Against Nazis? That's insane.

Kill them all. Round them up. No mercy.

Put... your... money... where... your... mouth... is.
That is one of the dumbest posts I've read on this forum. Why do you insist on building such ridiculous straw men?
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:12 AM   #536
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
No it isn't. I feel like you didn't read the post you just responded to, because apparently telling you that you're oversimplifying the issue didn't register.



Sounds like your narrative that they hold political power and are poised to enact their final solution was a bit premature.
Go back and read the post. I said that they do NOT have the political power to enact their final solutions.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:12 AM   #537
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
That is one of the dumbest posts I've read on this forum. Why do you insist on building such ridiculous straw men?
You're the one calling "Wearing a red hat" being a Nazi.

I'll cope.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:13 AM   #538
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
That's some fallacious logic there, good job, maybe you should take over Huckabee Sanders job.
I think you should look up the definition of fallacious before using it in a sentence.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:15 AM   #539
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Go back and read the post. I said that they do NOT have the political power to enact their final solutions.
You also said this:

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I don't think its a "boys will be boys" situation. The BI have no political power, no economical power, and no power to oppress.

The MAGA teens, however, are part of a large cult of people who have control of the White House and Republican party. They are the greater threat to society.
So which is it?

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
That is one of the dumbest posts I've read on this forum. Why do you insist on building such ridiculous straw men?
So then they are actual Nazis but there's nothing to worry about. Sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:18 AM   #540
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Here's a video of those innocent maga kids allegedly harassing a girl and her friends.

https://www.indy100.com/article/maga...-video-8739981

Those innocent little rascals.

Also, Belz, get over yourself. I never made a big deal out of this before it was shown what happened. I waited for everything to come out.

If you want to try to call me out get your ******* facts straight. Thanks.
I don't get it. Pro Trump demonstrators yelling pro Trump slogans means,.... Oh. And they are rowdy and nearly incoherent teenagers, which means,,....

I just can't fill in the blanks here.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:19 AM   #541
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You also said this:



So which is it?
Both. Political power is on a spectrum. They have the power to enact some pretty dangerous and awful things right now, and they are doing that.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:19 AM   #542
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
So then they are actual Nazis but there's nothing to worry about. Sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too.
And this is what David Wong was getting at talking about the church he was in growing up, where everybody got together on Sunday and talked about how the end was nigh any day now... but then went home and lived perfectly normal lives, not putting any effort or actions into things in the way someone who actually believed what they were saying they believed would do.

Saying "The world is gonna end any day now" is easy. Stockpiling food and ammo and going to live in the woods away from civilization is hard.

Saying "My side are literal Nazis" is easy. Actually acting like they are is hard.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:21 AM   #543
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Also, Belz, get over yourself.
What the hell is that supposed to mean? That doesn't make any sense in context.

I stand by what I said: just as a real threat to someone's life pops up, you declare the thread to have run its course.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:24 AM   #544
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Both. Political power is on a spectrum. They have the power to enact some pretty dangerous and awful things right now, and they are doing that.
They're not. They're kids, and you have no idea what they believe. You assume that you do because it's somehow convenient for you to pretend that.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:25 AM   #545
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I don't want to talk about fake native American chanting is racist right now, and will settle for a discussion on it being messed up.

I think Seminole tribe chants have lyrics. They are going to appropriate a music tradition and just replace lyrics with meaningless sounds? Its like singing a Chinese song using the words ching chong Bing bong.

But I can't rule out that there are just millions of people out there that think a style of music they don't understand the words of doesn't have any words.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:27 AM   #546
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Both. Political power is on a spectrum. They have the power to enact some pretty dangerous and awful things right now, and they are doing that.
But are they actually Nazis?

If, so should Hitler have been assassinated?

And if so the corollary should not be hard to figure out.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:28 AM   #547
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
But are they actually Nazis?

If, so should Hitler have been assassinated?

And if so the corollary should not be hard to figure out.
They're just enough Nazi to be outraged about and villify them, but not quite enough to do anything about them. That's too much work for something one doesn't really believe.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:29 AM   #548
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
If.



I'll echo whas Joe said: Take care not to become Travis.
I think what Ken is saying is that even though Travis's idiom is... unique... Travis's outlook and mode of thought is actually widespread on the left.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:34 AM   #549
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I think what Ken is saying is that even though Travis's idiom is... unique... Travis's outlook and mode of thought is actually widespread on the left.
And that is what's really freaking scary.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:35 AM   #550
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
They're just enough Nazi to be outraged about and villify them, but not quite enough to do anything about them. That's too much work for something one doesn't really believe.
Yep that magic state of a perfectly balanced "I'm angry enough to be have achieved maximum outraged... but not angry enough to act in anyway" that the Causiest of the Cause thinks makes them better than the rest of us.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:47 AM   #551
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
There is literally 2 hours of video of the actual interaction. But an 8 second video of kids that might be from that school yelling out incoherently while girls pass definitely proves they must have initiated the issue with the black and Native American men. That's just math.
Lol what? That's the dumbest strawman ever.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:50 AM   #552
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
No. They only reason they aren't full Nazi is because they don't quite have the political power. It's not stopping them from trying, with the concentration camps at the border, imprisonment of a journalist, marginalization of non-white people and demonization of anyone that isn't them.
Here is what I'd like explained, the only thing in that list not down by the previous administration was "demonizing anyone who is non-white" which this administration isn't actually doing either, why weren't you calling out all those folks with the Obama icon shirts as NAZI's too?


To other folks, I have no actual desire to watch the videos, what actually happened? Based on past experience of the media it seems very likely that a group of teens were out seeing the sites in DC when they were berated by a much smaller group of crazy people and a small portion of video was released to make it look as bad for the teens as possible.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:53 AM   #553
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I don't get it. Pro Trump demonstrators yelling pro Trump slogans means,.... Oh. And they are rowdy and nearly incoherent teenagers, which means,,....



I just can't fill in the blanks here.
Did... did you read the article? It's not meant to say anything other than those that are saying these innocent maga kids were perfectly behaved, read any of TBD's posts if you're confused, and that there was no chance they chanted dumb Trump slogans isn't entirely proven.

My whole point in this thread was that EVERYONE involved is to blame, as much as people can be. It was non violent so to me this isn't the end of the world.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:54 AM   #554
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I think what Ken is saying is that even though Travis's idiom is... unique... Travis's outlook and mode of thought is actually widespread on the left.
Just like SkepticTank's outlook and mode of thought is widespread on the right.

Good Talk.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:55 AM   #555
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Here is what I'd like explained, the only thing in that list not down by the previous administration was "demonizing anyone who is non-white" which this administration isn't actually doing either, why weren't you calling out all those folks with the Obama icon shirts as NAZI's too?


To other folks, I have no actual desire to watch the videos, what actually happened? Based on past experience of the media it seems very likely that a group of teens were out seeing the sites in DC when they were berated by a much smaller group of crazy people and a small portion of video was released to make it look as bad for the teens as possible.
Cliff notes version: Anti-abortion rally in DC. Kids showed up in MAGAwear as from a Catholic school. The Black Israelites also were demonstrating and picked a fight with the kids, hurling insults and stuff. The Native American contingent walked up into the middle of the kids and chanted and beat a drum in one of the kid's faces. He stood still smiling (taunting? awkward?). The kids were being loud and pretty obnoxious the whole time.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:55 AM   #556
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
What the hell is that supposed to mean? That doesn't make any sense in context.



I stand by what I said: just as a real threat to someone's life pops up, you declare the thread to have run its course.
lol what? A real threat? Was something actually done? The right threatens the left regularly and I don't bother with that **** either. Good God, what a weird appeal to emotion.

ETA: If you find the last few pages of this useful conversation then I'd beg to differ lol. Like I said, useless. Entertaining, especially given my day today, but useless.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:58 AM   #557
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Lol what? That's the dumbest strawman ever.
I am unconvinced that it is.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Cliff notes version: Anti-abortion rally in DC. Kids showed up in MAGAwear as from a Catholic school. The Black Israelites also were demonstrating and picked a fight with the kids, hurling insults and stuff. The Native American contingent walked up into the middle of the kids and chanted and beat a drum in one of the kid's faces. He stood still smiling (taunting? awkward?). The kids were being loud and pretty obnoxious the whole time.
Thanks, this confirms one thing at least, I will continue to be disappointed in the level of certainty expressed by various folks.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:01 AM   #558
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Here is what I'd like explained, the only thing in that list not down by the previous administration was "demonizing anyone who is non-white" which this administration isn't actually doing either, why weren't you calling out all those folks with the Obama icon shirts as NAZI's too?


To other folks, I have no actual desire to watch the videos, what actually happened? Based on past experience of the media it seems very likely that a group of teens were out seeing the sites in DC when they were berated by a much smaller group of crazy people and a small portion of video was released to make it look as bad for the teens as possible.
A few details are off, but that would be the reasonable assumption, yes.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:03 AM   #559
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
I am unconvinced that it is.



Thanks, this confirms one thing at least, I will continue to be disappointed in the level of certainty expressed by various folks.
Considering I wasn't making the claim he is trying to say I am making, what would you call it? I'm excited to hear.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:07 AM   #560
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Cliff notes version: Anti-abortion rally in DC. Kids showed up in MAGAwear as from a Catholic school. The Black Israelites also were demonstrating and picked a fight with the kids, hurling insults and stuff. The Native American contingent walked up into the middle of the kids and chanted and beat a drum in one of the kid's faces. He stood still smiling (taunting? awkward?). The kids were being loud and pretty obnoxious the whole time.
Slight correction : it's my understanding that the rally the kids had been attending was over and they were waiting for their bus for the trip back home. That is to say, the filmed events didn't actually occur during the rally and weren't part of it. Based on my reading of the Reason article linked a few pages back ( https://reason.com/blog/2019/01/20/c...TJ8zAHv_uBPQms ) . So if true it's not like it was a rally where opposing views went at it, but rather the BHI taunting and trying to incite people waiting for a bus, and the rest (whatever your view of that is) developed from that.

With all that's gone down with the reporting of this I wouldn't be surprised if there are further revisions to the what/when/where of things, so maybe my correction above isn't the full picture, either.
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