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Old 12th August 2019, 12:53 PM   #201
dudalb
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And we should have done the same with those boston tea party terrorists. Really destroying private property as a protest against the government? Hang them all. That should be something america needs to live down rather than celebrate.

But the fact is that while there was some left wing terrorism in the west 50 years ago or so it was never at the level of right wing even then. But of course it is only fighting left wing terrorism that gets any traction.
The Boston Tea Party destruction of property was very targeted..the Tea was owned by the East India Company, which was heavily subsidized by the British Government.
Not quite the same as looting a small restaurant that had nothing to do with politics during a demonstration, which I saw people claiming to be Antifa do in Berkeley.
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Old 12th August 2019, 12:59 PM   #202
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Up until the 1960's the Democrats did have large number of Racists in the south as members.
But then they changed parties,more or less invited by the GOP's "Southern Strategy".
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Old 12th August 2019, 01:05 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The Boston Tea Party destruction of property was very targeted..the Tea was owned by the East India Company, which was heavily subsidized by the British Government.
Not quite the same as looting a small restaurant that had nothing to do with politics during a demonstration, which I saw people claiming to be Antifa do in Berkeley.
It is a lot more complex than that, the East India Company had been the only one allowed to import tea to britian form china, but sold it wholesale to distributers at a tax. The change here was in part that they were selling dirrectly to america which was a change for one.

As for subsidies that is kind of questionable in any modern sense, given how much tax they had been paying on tea all along.

But this is the good kind of destruction of "government" property not the bad kind like being upset about concentration camps. Destroying property then is right out. Like how for some reason the march on selma was the good kind of illegal protest while black lives matter are the bad kind and so they deserve the violent responses they got, including those proposing laws making it legal to just drive right through the protests.

There simply is no principle on protests.
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Old 12th August 2019, 01:07 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Up until the 1960's the Democrats did have large number of Racists in the south as members.
But then they changed parties,more or less invited by the GOP's "Southern Strategy".
Before the 1960s everybody was racist. You had racists in your party or you didn't exist.

This whole "Who belongs to what side" game is droll enough on it's own, start playing it on people who lived and died before huge cultural shifts in our culture and society happened and it crosses over into full on surrealism.

We might as well be asking a caveman what color the dress is or if he hears "Laurel" or "Yanny."
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Old 12th August 2019, 01:29 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Up until the 1960's the Democrats did have large number of Racists in the south as members.
But then they changed parties,more or less invited by the GOP's "Southern Strategy".
It started earlier than the 60's when some southern Democrats left the party to become Dixiecrats in 1948 over their opposition to Civil Rights. But you are correct that the Southern Strategy cemented the South going Republican. Lyndon Johnson famously stated “I think we just delivered the South to the Republican party for a long time to come.”

I want to gag whenever I hear a Republican claim they are the "Party of Lincoln".
I once had a right wing Republican tell me that the reason the overwhelming majority of A-Americans who are registered to vote belong to the Democratic Party is due to their dependence on food stamps and welfare engineered by the Dems. They fear that, if they don't vote Dem, they'll lose all their welfare and food stamps because the Dems will retaliate. And she was serious. Need I say she's a huge Trump supporter?
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Old 12th August 2019, 02:09 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I posted this elsewhere a few years back so it's not up to date but here's a list that covers US high profile shootings up to the year 2013, Lest we forget due to media burial of relevant information....Please feel free to personally verify all posted information is indeed factual and accurate.

In 1865 a Democrat shot and killed Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States.
In 1881 a left wing radical Democrat shot James Garfield, President of the United States , who later died from the wound.
In 1963 a radical left wing socialist shot and killed John F. Kennedy, President of the United States.
In 1975 a left wing radical Democrat fired shots at Gerald Ford, President of the United States.
In 1983 a registered Democrat shot and wounded Ronald Reagan, President of the United States.
In 1984 James Hubert, a disgruntled Democrat, shot and killed 22 people in a McDonalds restaurant.
In 1986 Patrick Sherrill, a disgruntled Democrat, shot and killed 15 people in an Oklahoma post office.
In 1990 James Pough, a disgruntled Democrat, shot and killed 10 people at a GMAC office.
In 1991 George Hennard, a disgruntled Democrat, shot and killed 23 people in a Luby's cafeteria in Killeen , TX.
In 1995 James Daniel Simpson, a disgruntled Democrat, shot and killed 5 coworkers in a Texas laboratory.
In 1999 Larry Asbrook, a disgruntled Democrat, shot and killed 8 people at a church service.
In 2001 a left wing radical Democrat fired shots at the White House in a failed attempt to kill George W. Bush, President of the US.
In 2003 Douglas Williams, a disgruntled Democrat, shot and killed 7 people at a Lockheed Martin plant.
In 2007 a registered Democrat named Seung - Hui Cho, shot and killed 32 people in Virginia Tech.
In 2010 a mentally ill registered Democrat named Jared Lee Loughner, shot Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and killed 6 others.
In 2011 a registered Democrat named James Holmes, went into a movie theater and shot and killed 12 people.
In 2012 Andrew Engeldinger, a disgruntled Democrat, shot and killed 7 people in Minneapolis.
In 2013 a registered Democrat named Adam Lanza, shot and killed 26 people in a school in Newtown , CT.
In Sept 2013, an angry Democrat shot 12 at a Navy ship yard.

Clearly, there is a problem with Democrats and guns.

Not one NRA member, Tea Party member, or Republican conservative was involved in any of these shootings and murders.

Chris B.
Guys, you are being way too harsh. Chris B. is right. This is a serious problem that has lingered for far too long. We need gun control now!

Thanks Chris B. For being on the front edge of this movement. Together we can make a difference.
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Old 12th August 2019, 02:28 PM   #207
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A registered Democrat with a bruised ego could still violently flip out without anything specifically against his political opponents.
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Old 12th August 2019, 03:22 PM   #208
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Friend who provided Dayton shooter with 100-round magazine and body armor faces federal charges
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/12/us/da...ges/index.html
Quote:
Kollie is being held in Montgomery County Jail, charged with possession of a firearm by someone who illegally uses or is addicted to a controlled substance, and making false statements with respect to information required by the federal firearms code.

He will have a detention hearing Wednesday to determine bail, Glassman said. He faces up to 15 years in prison if convicted on both counts, the prosecutor said.
Wow, this is one stupid man.

As far as I know it is relatively rare that a person is arrested for lying on the federal firearms form. There are claims that thousands of NICS denials each year keep guns out of the hands of criminals. I rarely ever hear about those people getting arrested for lying on the 4473 form.

Ranb
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Old 12th August 2019, 03:46 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Guys, you are being way too harsh. Chris B. is right. This is a serious problem that has lingered for far too long. We need gun control now!

Thanks Chris B. For being on the front edge of this movement. Together we can make a difference.
Exactly. Every one of these gun violence whatabouters seems to be under the impression that gun control/ban advocates love leftist gun violence. There is simply no evidence of that. For example, I don't think any of us propose different gun laws based on party affiliation.
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Old 12th August 2019, 04:38 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
I think you just set a record for 'most pitiful post of the year'.
It seems clear he doesn't give a rat's ass if it's factually accurate or not. Notice the doubling and tripling down with irrelevancies and justifications, no matter how wrong he is. There might be something to that strategy. Here ISF members are earnestly trying to point out, "but you've got the facts wrong!" And it doesn't matter at all. It's like the media spending so much effort on fact-checking Trump when it turns out to be moot, because apparently these folks don't mind being lied to. They might even prefer it. I wonder if there are any strategic lessons to be learned as Dems rev up to defeat Trump in 2020.
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Old 12th August 2019, 09:25 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It started earlier than the 60's when some southern Democrats left the party to become Dixiecrats in 1948 over their opposition to Civil Rights. But you are correct that the Southern Strategy cemented the South going Republican. Lyndon Johnson famously stated “I think we just delivered the South to the Republican party for a long time to come.”
Technically, it started when the Lily White Republicans took over the party from the Black & Tan Republicans, a bit over a century ago. But yes, the embrace of republicans like Goldwater, Nixon, and Reagan sealed the deal hard.

Quote:
I want to gag whenever I hear a Republican claim they are the "Party of Lincoln".
I once had a right wing Republican tell me that the reason the overwhelming majority of A-Americans who are registered to vote belong to the Democratic Party is due to their dependence on food stamps and welfare engineered by the Dems. They fear that, if they don't vote Dem, they'll lose all their welfare and food stamps because the Dems will retaliate. And she was serious. Need I say she's a huge Trump supporter?
Yeah, that's been a standard party line for a couple of decades now - the *more* subtle versions refer to black voters as plantation slaves, which at least imply that it's involuntary. The above version is just a regurgitation of a Reconstruction-Era stereotype - the Coon - that shows up in media such as the film Birth of a Nation.

And when you're peddling that sort of white supremacist crap, and your party leader is the most racist president since Woodrow Wilson, you really don't get to claim that *your* party is the one that wants equality. I mean, you can, but you'll either get cussed out, or laughed at, and rightfully so.
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Old 13th August 2019, 05:15 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Friend who provided Dayton shooter with 100-round magazine and body armor faces federal charges
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/12/us/da...ges/index.html

Wow, this is one stupid man.

As far as I know it is relatively rare that a person is arrested for lying on the federal firearms form. There are claims that thousands of NICS denials each year keep guns out of the hands of criminals. I rarely ever hear about those people getting arrested for lying on the 4473 form.

Ranb
This is really ticky tack federal charges. I know everyone hates this guy for associating with a mass murderer, but this kind of prosecutorial overreach should make everyone's alarm bells ring.

They are charging him with lying on a 4473 form (background check) for a firearm unrelated to the shooting, and the great sin worth years in jail is that he lied about having used recreational drugs. He's being prosecuted because what he did, buying unregulated firearm parts and providing them to the shooter, is not a crime, but they want to nail him anyway.

Yet another reason to never talk to the police, even if you think you hadn't done anything wrong. Doubly so if it's the feds. Not sure what would possess a man to admit to recreational drug use to federal agents investigating a connection to mass murder, but I suppose getting people to incriminate themselves is a fed's forte.
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Old 13th August 2019, 06:19 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
This is really ticky tack federal charges. I know everyone hates this guy for associating with a mass murderer, but this kind of prosecutorial overreach should make everyone's alarm bells ring.
Is what this man did illegal? Is there any ******* reason at all that he shouldn't get prosecuted for something illegal? Can you name reasons why he shouldn't be charged for a crime that he so obviously committed?

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
They are charging him with lying on a 4473 form (background check) for a firearm unrelated to the shooting, and the great sin worth years in jail is that he lied about having used recreational drugs. He's being prosecuted because what he did, buying unregulated firearm parts and providing them to the shooter, is not a crime, but they want to nail him anyway.
Oh, so he only lied about being addicted to drugs on a form in order to get a weapon or parts for a weapon? Oh, well then by all means.

There once was a mobster that went to prison for tax fraud, but that wasn't the worst thing he did either.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Yet another reason to never talk to the police, even if you think you hadn't done anything wrong. Doubly so if it's the feds. Not sure what would possess a man to admit to recreational drug use to federal agents investigating a connection to mass murder, but I suppose getting people to incriminate themselves is a fed's forte.
He probably didn't admit it. He probably possessed the drugs and they were found during a visit to his home, would be my best bet. I have nothing to back that up though. Personally, I would have just told the guy to buy the **** himself if it's no big deal and it's not illegal. Sounds like it might have been more than that.
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Old 13th August 2019, 06:44 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Is what this man did illegal? Is there any ******* reason at all that he shouldn't get prosecuted for something illegal? Can you name reasons why he shouldn't be charged for a crime that he so obviously committed?



Oh, so he only lied about being addicted to drugs on a form in order to get a weapon or parts for a weapon? Oh, well then by all means.

There once was a mobster that went to prison for tax fraud, but that wasn't the worst thing he did either.



He probably didn't admit it. He probably possessed the drugs and they were found during a visit to his home, would be my best bet. I have nothing to back that up though. Personally, I would have just told the guy to buy the **** himself if it's no big deal and it's not illegal. Sounds like it might have been more than that.
The same could be said of any selective prosecution.

We have someone that has a target on his back because of his close proximity to the shooter, so the feds dug until they could find something to charge him with. If the general population were treated with the same level of scrutiny, it would be an outrage of over-policing. But since it's just this one guy that one one likes, it's treated as acceptable.

If we locked up every pot smoker that lied about using pot, the jails would be overflowing.
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Old 13th August 2019, 07:00 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Friend who provided Dayton shooter with 100-round magazine and body armor faces federal charges
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/12/us/da...ges/index.html

Wow, this is one stupid man.

As far as I know it is relatively rare that a person is arrested for lying on the federal firearms form. There are claims that thousands of NICS denials each year keep guns out of the hands of criminals. I rarely ever hear about those people getting arrested for lying on the 4473 form.

Ranb
Wow Colorado and Oregon is going to see a lot of criminal charges about using illegal pot and buying guns.

He loaned a friend a couple of totally unregulated items and so people are looking for something to nail him on.
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Old 13th August 2019, 07:04 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The same could be said of any selective prosecution.

We have someone that has a target on his back because of his close proximity to the shooter, so the feds dug until they could find something to charge him with. If the general population were treated with the same level of scrutiny, it would be an outrage of over-policing. But since it's just this one guy that one one likes, it's treated as acceptable.

If we locked up every pot smoker that lied about using pot, the jails would be overflowing.
Federal pot charges for all those using the fake legal pot in those states that "legalized it". That is clearly mandatory now.

So we are what going to lock up 30% of colorado now?
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Old 13th August 2019, 08:40 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The same could be said of any selective prosecution.
It looks like he was selected because he had close ties to a man that killed a bunch of people. His name wasn't pulled out of a hat or anything.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
We have someone that has a target on his back because of his close proximity to the shooter, so the feds dug until they could find something to charge him with.
Evidence? Is there anything to believe this didn't come up when they were looking at the methods behind the shooter getting all of his gear? How do you know they "dug until they could find something to charge him with"?

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
If the general population were treated with the same level of scrutiny, it would be an outrage of over-policing. But since it's just this one guy that one one likes, it's treated as acceptable.
Hmm, what could possibly separate this guy from the general population?

Also, there wouldn't be any outrage from me. This guy broke the law, why is it you seem to be more than willing to forgive someone that broke the law when it's with regards to guns? Enforcing the law is not over-policing. It's called "doing their job".

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
If we locked up every pot smoker that lied about using pot, the jails would be overflowing.
That's an awesome strawman! Though, this guy didn't just get locked up for smoking pot did he? He is getting locked up for lying on a federal form about doing drugs on a regular basis, which he was specifically asked about. He also seems to be growing mushrooms which he consumes regularly because "they're fun".

Call me crazy but I don't want him having guns if he's going to be smoking weed, and taking mushrooms on a regular. Obviously you're kosher with it. The law disagree with you.
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Old 13th August 2019, 08:57 AM   #218
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He admitted to the drug use when told his home would be searched. His home was to be searched to gather evidence relating to the shooting, since it was known that the druggie loaned equipment to the shooter. Druggie admitted to daily pot and mushroom use. He took small quantities of psycobilic mushrooms everyday for years.

In gun control discussions it is common to hear people state that we should focus on enforcing existing gun laws before we pass new one. Then complaining when such existing laws are actually enforced.
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Old 13th August 2019, 08:59 AM   #219
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This is the "It's not racist if a cop sits on the side of the road and only pulls over the speeding cars that are being driven by black people because... well they are breaking the law" argument.
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Old 13th August 2019, 09:03 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
In gun control discussions it is common to hear people state that we should focus on enforcing existing gun laws before we pass new one. Then complaining when such existing laws are actually enforced.
Exactly. You couldn't have summed it up for me, without swearing (it gets touchy around here), any better. If we don't enforce the laws we have, like lying on a form to get a gun, then what laws should we enforce?

This guy obviously had issues making intelligent decisions. Nothing struck him as odd that his buddy wanted him to buy him some body armor and 100 capacity mags? Come on.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
This is the "It's not racist if a cop sits on the side of the road and only pulls over the speeding cars that are being driven by black people because... well they are breaking the law" argument.
I'm not sure what this means, but if you're attempting to say this guy is being profiled you couldn't be further from the actual truth.
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Old 13th August 2019, 09:07 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Exactly. You couldn't have summed it up for me, without swearing (it gets touchy around here), any better. If we don't enforce the laws we have, like lying on a form to get a gun, then what laws should we enforce?

This guy obviously had issues making intelligent decisions. Nothing struck him as odd that his buddy wanted him to buy him some body armor and 100 capacity mags? Come on.
We know he is guilty and as such we should pin what ever we can on him even if it is something that would be ignored in any other situation?

He loaned some legal unregulated items to a friend, why make a big deal over that, but they are going after totally unrelated things that they wouldn't care about otherwise.
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Old 13th August 2019, 09:11 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
We know he is guilty and as such we should pin what ever we can on him even if it is something that would be ignored in any other situation?
Are you implying that cops would have ignored drugs when searching a residence in any other situation? Got a link for that?

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
He loaned some legal unregulated items to a friend, why make a big deal over that, but they are going after totally unrelated things that they wouldn't care about otherwise.
He didn't loan them, he bought them for him. In the process of doing so he lied on federal forms about his consistent use of mind altering chemicals when asked by the same form.

What else on a federal form should you be able to lie about without any consequences? Age? Convictions? Social security number?

How the **** is this even a conversation that's being had? You break the law, you face the consequences. This is simple stuff.
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Old 13th August 2019, 09:14 AM   #223
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The "war on drugs" is a policy disaster for this country and largely the means in which we have become a leader in mass incarceration. I won't celebrate the use of such a cudgel just because the target is someone I don't like.

Originally Posted by plague311 View Post

How the **** is this even a conversation that's being had? You break the law, you face the consequences. This is simple stuff.
The same could be said about every regressive law that has ever existed.
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Old 13th August 2019, 09:19 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The "war on drugs" is a policy disaster for this country and largely the means in which we have become a leader in mass incarceration. I won't celebrate the use of such a cudgel just because the target is someone I don't like.
Ok. So you don't think there is any reason, other than the war on drugs, why we might want to know if a person is a regular user of drugs when applying for a gun?

Just trying to understand this gripe. Is the complaint that this question shouldn't be asked and therefore his lying on said question should be ignored? We're all supposed to be totally cool with people on drugs getting guns? That's how loose the 2A actually is?

I'm sorry, but this is ******* nuts to me.
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Old 13th August 2019, 09:26 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Are you implying that cops would have ignored drugs when searching a residence in any other situation? Got a link for that?



He didn't loan them, he bought them for him. In the process of doing so he lied on federal forms about his consistent use of mind altering chemicals when asked by the same form.

What else on a federal form should you be able to lie about without any consequences? Age? Convictions? Social security number?

How the **** is this even a conversation that's being had? You break the law, you face the consequences. This is simple stuff.
the items he signed those things for are guns, the things he loaned are magazines and bullet resistant vest. Those are not federally regulated the killer bought his own gun quite legally though likely also lied about his drug use.

Well as for that the answer is clearly security clearance forms as shown by Jarred Kushner.
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Old 13th August 2019, 09:28 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Ok. So you don't think there is any reason, other than the war on drugs, why we might want to know if a person is a regular user of drugs when applying for a gun?
Then we should have questions about alcohol on there too, I don't want drunks owning guns. In denver of course the drugs he uses are legal, but we need to arrest any gun owners there who use those legally I assume too.
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Old 13th August 2019, 09:30 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Then we should have questions about alcohol on there too, I don't want drunks owning guns. In denver of course the drugs he uses are legal, but we need to arrest any gun owners there who use those legally I assume too.
Mushrooms aren't legal in CO, and I'm done talking about this.

As Crescent said, if they're laws then they should be enforced. Anything other than that is ******* stupid. I'll let you guys cry about how we should let people that lie on federal forms go without any consequence. It's literally too stupid for me to continue talking about.
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Old 13th August 2019, 09:31 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Friend who provided Dayton shooter with 100-round magazine and body armor faces federal charges
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/12/us/da...ges/index.html

Wow, this is one stupid man.

As far as I know it is relatively rare that a person is arrested for lying on the federal firearms form. There are claims that thousands of NICS denials each year keep guns out of the hands of criminals. I rarely ever hear about those people getting arrested for lying on the 4473 form.

Ranb
You are 100% correct.

The feds are not interested in prosecuting individuals for lying on the 4473, and it's not a recent development.

https://www.issuelab.org/resources/475/475.pdf

Too little attention is given to preventing criminals from getting guns in the first place. Federal charges are rarely brought against criminals caught attempting to buy firearms or against corrupt gun dealers and others who traffic in illegal guns. For example, the Attorney General has repeatedly instructed prosecutors to go after individuals who falsify information during background checks when buying firearms.3 Yet prosecutions of these “lie-and-try” cases have actually declined over the last two years, representing an enormous missed opportunity to stop felons before they succeed in
obtaining a gun to commit another crime.


I do take issue with the statement that the feds don't prosecute licensed dealers:

https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/federal-...ng-guns-felons

ATLANTA - Dawn Anderson, a/k/a “Prestige,” a federally licensed firearms dealer in Atlanta, doing business as Distincvision, LLC, a/k/a “Liquidation Outlet Center,” was sentenced today for making false entries in the records required to be kept by federal firearms dealers. Shawn Lewis, an employee at LOC and co-defendant, was previously sentenced for his role in the offense.

“This firearms dealer and her company made it possible for criminals to obtain dangerous weapons by allowing felons to buy firearms through straw purchasers,” said U.S. Attorney Byung J. “BJay” Pak. “Federal firearms dealers who violate the law and endanger our communities by enabling straw purchasers to unlawfully obtain guns for criminals will be prosecuted, lose their federal firearms licenses, and businesses.”


Interested parties can go to the ATF website and read through the press releases - non-ATF source on another case:

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2019/0...ess-going.html

The wife of a Pennsylvania firearms dealer convicted of illegally buying 71 machine-guns can’t have a federal license to keep the family business going, a U.S. appeals court panel ruled Tuesday.

That decision by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 3rd Circuit likely will put Warminster-based Armament Services International Inc. out of operation.

The firm’s president, Vahan Kelerchian, was convicted by a federal jury more than three years ago of conspiring with corrupt members of a police force in the state of Indiana to illegally acquire the machine-guns, Judge Michael A. Chagares noted in the appeals court’s opinion.
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Old 13th August 2019, 09:35 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
You are 100% correct.

The feds are not interested in prosecuting individuals for lying on the 4473, and it's not a recent development.

https://www.issuelab.org/resources/475/475.pdf

Too little attention is given to preventing criminals from getting guns in the first place. Federal charges are rarely brought against criminals caught attempting to buy firearms or against corrupt gun dealers and others who traffic in illegal guns. For example, the Attorney General has repeatedly instructed prosecutors to go after individuals who falsify information during background checks when buying firearms.3 Yet prosecutions of these “lie-and-try” cases have actually declined over the last two years, representing an enormous missed opportunity to stop felons before they succeed in
obtaining a gun to commit another crime.
And focusing on drug users is really not were I would like to see more prosecutions for this. Criminalizing addiction and with his choice of drugs self medication with not unlikely valid sources that are being more and more commonly legalized and were made illegal to go after racial minorities in the first place.
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Old 13th August 2019, 09:36 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Mushrooms aren't legal in CO, and I'm done talking about this.
Neither is pot as that is illegal nationally. So anyone the prosecutors decide they want in jail for what ever personal reasons should be sure to not inbide.
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Old 13th August 2019, 09:43 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And focusing on drug users is really not were I would like to see more prosecutions for this. Criminalizing addiction and with his choice of drugs self medication with not unlikely valid sources that are being more and more commonly legalized and were made illegal to go after racial minorities in the first place.
As a practical matter, the failure of the feds to prosecute individuals for perjury issues with the 4473 involves the status of being a convicted felon, not drug use.
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Old 13th August 2019, 10:28 AM   #232
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I have to admit, I've come around. We can't let these dirty hippies get away with lying about using pot to the government. Every one of them should be a convicted felon.

I won't rest easy until every person that has lied about smoking pot when enlisting into the military, joining a police department, applying for a security clearance, on a 4473, or any other mundane government document is named, shamed, and thrown in the clink, forever branded a felon. We shouldn't be daunted that this is likely tens or even hundreds of thousands of citizens that will be flushed down the criminal justice system.

The law's the law, and if we don't bring the hammer down on these reprobates, then we live in anarchy! God forbid someone smoke the devil's lettuce and not be willing to admit it!
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Old 13th August 2019, 11:09 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
As a practical matter, the failure of the feds to prosecute individuals for perjury issues with the 4473 involves the status of being a convicted felon, not drug use.
Well yes but that isn't the case here, he was not a convicted felon, and anyone who uses pot in states where it is legal should clearly also be charged with lying on such forms if they prevent themselves from being able to buy their gun by being honnest about their drug use.

They feds certainly ignore drug use when they find out about it as well.
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Old 13th August 2019, 11:22 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Well yes but that isn't the case here, he was not a convicted felon, and anyone who uses pot in states where it is legal should clearly also be charged with lying on such forms if they prevent themselves from being able to buy their gun by being honnest about their drug use.

They feds certainly ignore drug use when they find out about it as well.
Since both Steven Tyler and Joe Perry own all sorts of firearms, you might have a point.

My .02 wrt inaction on criminal acts related to perjury on the 4473 is that they really DGAS unless they do, which is clearly the case here.
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Old 13th August 2019, 11:25 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I have to admit, I've come around. We can't let these dirty hippies get away with lying about using pot to the government. Every one of them should be a convicted felon.

I won't rest easy until every person that has lied about smoking pot when enlisting into the military, joining a police department, applying for a security clearance, on a 4473, or any other mundane government document is named, shamed, and thrown in the clink, forever branded a felon. We shouldn't be daunted that this is likely tens or even hundreds of thousands of citizens that will be flushed down the criminal justice system.

The law's the law, and if we don't bring the hammer down on these reprobates, then we live in anarchy! God forbid someone smoke the devil's lettuce and not be willing to admit it!
I was watching the US show Live PD last night. A statistic that popped up during the show stated that there is an arrest every 2.5 seconds in the US. Judging by the high number of Cannabis busts they show on this program I would bet that half of those arrests are for small quantities of illegal bud. US cops do not seem capable of making a simple traffic stop without bringing up guns and drugs.
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Old 13th August 2019, 11:26 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Since both Steven Tyler and Joe Perry own all sorts of firearms, you might have a point.

My .02 wrt inaction on criminal acts related to perjury on the 4473 is that they really DGAS unless they do, which is clearly the case here.
And clearly anyone who uses "legal" pot clearly should also be unable to buy firearms.

They are trying to pin anything on him they can. Now maybe he did conspire to help his buddy kill people but that isn't what they are charging him with, they are charging him with something that if they really tried to get everyone who did that you would see huge numbers of "responsible gun owners" going to prison.
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Old 13th August 2019, 12:30 PM   #237
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So, nothing in response to the "we should enforce the laws we have"? Easily going to ignore that?

I've had to watch myself the last few times I've opened this thread. If my eyes roll any ******* harder at the people making excuses for this **** I might lose my vision.
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Old 13th August 2019, 12:45 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
So, nothing in response to the "we should enforce the laws we have"? Easily going to ignore that?

I've had to watch myself the last few times I've opened this thread. If my eyes roll any ******* harder at the people making excuses for this **** I might lose my vision.
It's a 'net thing.

I once started a thread on this very forum citing criminal charges against a mother for having her six year old daughter film her and her male friends having group sex.

One particular poster took issue w/ the criminal charges against the mother...because who can say for sure if the six-year-old kid was actually harmed by the experience...
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Old 13th August 2019, 12:47 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
So, nothing in response to the "we should enforce the laws we have"? Easily going to ignore that?

I've had to watch myself the last few times I've opened this thread. If my eyes roll any ******* harder at the people making excuses for this **** I might lose my vision.
Exactly everyone using pot in any so called Legal state should be thrown in prison, even if they are pulling the "medical marijuana" scam. We are a country of laws and pot is illegal for everyone and so they should all be in prison. Anyone who bought from a dispensary should be locked up.
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Old 13th August 2019, 12:48 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Exactly everyone using pot in any so called Legal state should be thrown in prison, even if they are pulling the "medical marijuana" scam. We are a country of laws and pot is illegal for everyone and so they should all be in prison. Anyone who bought from a dispensary should be locked up.
Ok, then what? I am not arguing with it if they said on a federal form that they didn't smoke weed, but did. Either way that's lying on a ******* federal form and it's illegal.

So now that we're in agreement. What?
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