ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags abortion issues , abortion laws , Kentucky issues , Kentucky laws , Kentucky politics

Reply
Old 15th January 2017, 04:05 PM   #321
Aepervius
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,545
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lordy, I'll enlighten you. As a slave of Christ I believe in birth control and sex education, although today's liberal teachers would rather encourage sexual activity instead of just teaching about it.
Well i will call you on that one and ask you to present evidence of that. Because there is plenty of example of parent NOT wanting that their children get sex ed, mostly from people not wanting their children see it and mostly on the right wing side, and so far as I can tell one of the result is the very high teen pregnancy rate in the US, compared to countries where there is a real sex ed, with film, and contraceptive taken as example.

Heck one of the stuff we had (beside the classical condom) was a "half sawed" plastic woman with real proportion to show us how the women contraceptive were inserted.

Quote:
Pregnancy isn't a punishment at all it is the result of sexual intercourse.
.

Nope this is the result of sexual intercourse, or heck enough sperm splashed on the vaginal opening, intercourse is not a necessity it just make it easier, while the woman is fertile, and no contraceptive was used (or they failed) and the embryo "takes" (not rejected or spontaneously aborted).

The fact that you say sexual intercourse without details, IMO show already a certain cultural viewpoint.

Quote:
How do you not know this? Further, children are truly a blessing but are best raised in a two parent marital family.
Annnnnd that is why you properly teach kids sex ed, and have condom cheap near school for them to buy.

Last edited by Aepervius; 15th January 2017 at 04:06 PM.
Aepervius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2017, 04:08 PM   #322
Aepervius
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,545
Oh, and if republican/religious as a whole were taking that seriously, they would drop the utterly stupid abstinence teaching.

It does not work, will never work, is pretty damn stupid.
Aepervius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2017, 07:24 PM   #323
Silly Green Monkey
Cowardly Lurking in the Shadows of Greatness
 
Silly Green Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,095
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lordy, I'll enlighten you. As a slave of Christ I believe in birth control and sex education, although today's liberal teachers would rather encourage sexual activity instead of just teaching about it. Pregnancy isn't a punishment at all it is the result of sexual intercourse. How do you not know this? Further, children are truly a blessing but are best raised in a two parent marital family.
There are those who say teaching about sexual activity IS encouraging it, and they're the fundamentalists who raised me. Fundy kids have to find out about sex on their own, but only the girls are shamed for it (and cannot hide the results).
__________________
Normal is just a stereotype.
Silly Green Monkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2017, 07:47 PM   #324
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,723
Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Well i will call you on that one and ask you to present evidence of that. Because there is plenty of example of parent NOT wanting that their children get sex ed, mostly from people not wanting their children see it and mostly on the right wing side, and so far as I can tell one of the result is the very high teen pregnancy rate in the US, compared to countries where there is a real sex ed, with film, and contraceptive taken as example.
That's because they want to teach their own children, it is what parents are supposed to do? I suppose the left being for more freedom will want to force the parents to give up their backwards teaching on this?

Quote:


The fact that you say sexual intercourse without details, IMO show already a certain cultural viewpoint.
Most people actually get it, the fact that you think you need to spell it out shows some things too.


Quote:
Annnnnd that is why you properly teach kids sex ed, and have condom cheap near school for them to buy.
Sure if the state needs to raise your child.
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2017, 07:52 PM   #325
marplots
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 26,336
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I think that is a rational position even if I disagree with it. My previous argument was not with that position, but with that of ChrisBFRKY, who appears, in his argument, to make no such allowance, considering abortion an evil that no other evil can outweigh, and with Marplots, whose position does not address Chris's absolutism.
Yes, I was trying to explain how someone might be logically consistent with the "OK for rape" but never OK otherwise position. The idea is that the fetus in the first case is "imposed" and the tainted result of the crime. In a sense, it "belongs" to the rapist. It's a product of rape.

This might be paralleled in those who are pro-life but also support the death penalty. It would be better phrased as pro innocent-life.

I don't agree with that position, but I don't think it's logically inconsistent, just predicated on premises that are foreign to me.
marplots is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2017, 07:59 PM   #326
marplots
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 26,336
Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
There are those who say teaching about sexual activity IS encouraging it, and they're the fundamentalists who raised me. Fundy kids have to find out about sex on their own, but only the girls are shamed for it (and cannot hide the results).
I think they can make a good case for this. Remember the DARE program, where teaching about drugs possibly increased drug use?
marplots is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2017, 07:06 AM   #327
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 18,969
Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
You call it conning a woman I call it trying to save a life.
By endangering the woman's.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2017, 07:08 AM   #328
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 18,969
Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
I just read the recent news on this. Seems the only way to change the current constitutional ban to allow any exemption, other than the life of the mother, is by a popular referendum, the same way the ban was voted in. Is there not another way Ireland can decide human rights than the vote of the people?
A written Constitution is rather a blunt instrument.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2017, 07:10 AM   #329
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 18,969
Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Tacking on the "Judeo" part when it comes to abortion smacks of ignorance. Jewish law does not agree with the "abortion is murder" notion.
Neither, for most of it's existence did xian.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2017, 07:16 AM   #330
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 18,969
Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
I never said the abortion law are better in France. But at least in France you have the doctor and gynecologue which are relatively cheap with part reimbursed by security social, and same for many women's contraceptive, and sex ed is in for everybody. Even for teenage pregnancy we have 1/4 of the rate of the US (10 versus 40 per 1000 women 1519). Not even counting that we got condom distributor vending machine in the street and at in high schools door.

I hate these "compared to" because this is not about what country is better than other, but making it worst comparing from to after in the same country.

Are you arguying that because some country have a lower number of weeks such laws are fine ?
Termination is available at request to to twelve weeks; after that it requires physician certification that continuing the pregnancy risks the life of, or permanent injury to the physical or mental health of, the woman or that the fetus carries a condition that means that it would suffer a severe and incurable illness. There is no upper time limit in such cases.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2017, 07:18 AM   #331
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 18,969
Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
So who's ponying up to pay for the children of parents who are in no way financially capable of supporting them?

Those who want to be in the "not me" camp, please kindly accept that your opinion on what other people do in such circumstances has lost all validity.
Those who oppose safe and legal termination tend not to care much about the children that result.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2017, 07:19 AM   #332
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 18,969
Originally Posted by Spock Jenkins View Post
At this point, I just hope everyone can agree that societies goal should be to make sure this happens as seldom as possible.

Meaning people have access to education, information, and healthcare that prevents them from being in a position to feel like that is their only alternative. Whether it be they are financially secure enough to raise an unexpected child, or that they make choices that prevent being in that position in the first place.
Curiously viable sex education is another thing that those opposed to abortion also attempt to prevent.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2017, 07:21 AM   #333
Fast Eddie B
Illuminator
 
Fast Eddie B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 3,757
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Those who oppose safe and legal termination tend not to care much about the children that result.
Citation?
__________________
"God is not a magician" - Pope Francis

"I doubt that!" - James Randi
Fast Eddie B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2017, 07:23 AM   #334
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 18,969
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
That would be the jurisdiction of morality.
Chris B.
Who's morality?
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2017, 07:35 AM   #335
fuelair
Cythraul Enfys
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 50,711
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Who's morality?
That of flaming ********!!!! Hope that helps, hope they devour feces and expire!!!!
__________________
There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed.

Wash this space!

We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2017, 10:17 AM   #336
Babbylonian
Philosopher
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 8,639
Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Well i will call you on that one and ask you to present evidence of that. Because there is plenty of example of parent NOT wanting that their children get sex ed, mostly from people not wanting their children see it and mostly on the right wing side, and so far as I can tell one of the result is the very high teen pregnancy rate in the US, compared to countries where there is a real sex ed, with film, and contraceptive taken as example.
And all of it comes down to the idiotic notion that children won't find about sex (and won't want to have it) if they're never exposed to the idea of it. This despite the fact that human beings (not ancestors to modern human beings but homo sapiens who would be impossible to distinguish from any other current human given the same education) were having lots of sex before there was language, let alone schools.

Then there's the fact that conservatives will go on and on about how children shouldn't be taught sex education in public schools while letting (or encouraging!) their daughters go out on football fields and basketball courts dressed in tight sweaters and tiny skirts to jump and dance for large groups of peers and parents. Parents buy their kids attractive clothing to wear on dates with their boyfriends/girlfriends, encouraging sexual thoughts and behaviors that they know led to having sex when they themselves were kids.

It's like they're playing a huge practical joke on their children, which I can only assume ends in getting the results of a pregnancy test then pointing out all the cameras in the room, perfectly positioned to capture the moment their hilarious plan comes together and their 15-year-old becomes a parent. Of course, all of them are secretly hoping for the even more hilarious STD - "We got you good! You'll have herpes forever! Hah!"
__________________
Never let anyone forget that the American people elected a rapist to be their president. President Rapist is the only name that should be used when referring to this evil narcissist.
Babbylonian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 12:15 AM   #337
ChrisBFRPKY
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,347
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Who's morality?
Those who know the basic principles which separate good and evil. Normally this is taught within the household by parents. Of course if one does not profess an understanding of morality, there are other avenues to finding it.

Here's an example of morality:

John has $100.
Bill would like to have $100 too.
Bill could bonk John on the head and take his $100.
Bill decides this would be wrong and asks John how he made his $100 as Bill would like to have $100 too.
Morality,.

Chris B.
__________________
One could choose to be civil though and still disagree. For example, since I know Bigfoot does exist, I don't call others "idiot" just because they're uneducated on the subject and share a different view based on that lack of experience. Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 12:39 AM   #338
cmikes
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 271
Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
But it seems the irrational ones are more likely to vote.
True, Hillary did win the popular vote.
cmikes is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 01:24 AM   #339
Aepervius
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,545
Originally Posted by logger View Post
That's because they want to teach their own children, it is what parents are supposed to do? I suppose the left being for more freedom will want to force the parents to give up their backwards teaching on this?
Because parents do not have always the necessary knowledge, and the courage or the willingness to teach properly. That is why the "talk" is shown as cringeworthy in popular culture : because it is. It is a talk between both actor about something very intimate. Paradoxically it is FAR easier for a stranger to speak about the meat of the stuff.

And again, most parents will not have the necessary knowledge to tell you how fertility works, what contraceptive are , how they works, how they are used , etc... And don't start me on parents which adamantly want an abstinence ... Which will mostly not happen, see teenage preganncy rate again.

Parents are the WORST teacher of sex ed

Quote:
Most people actually get it, the fact that you think you need to spell it out shows some things too.
Many people at young age and many parents even at adult age do DO NOT get it , especially the no-intercourse-required and not-all-intercourse-lead-to-pregnancy this is why it should be handled by teacher. And why precision is required.

Quote:
Sure if the state needs to raise your child.
It already is. Parents which work are leaving raising and educating 8hs long to others already. But far more importantely parents can teach their kids about the moral and ethic but they are not in the position in general to teach knowledge. What school can teach is knowledge. What parent can educate is the moral and ethics.

When you stop children having knowledge because of your own moral and ethics , you are doing a great disservice to children.
Aepervius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 01:26 AM   #340
marplots
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 26,336
Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
And again, most parents will not have the necessary knowledge to tell you how fertility works, what contraceptive are , how they works, how they are used , etc... And don't start me on parents which adamantly want an abstinence ... Which will mostly not happen, see teenage preganncy rate again.

Parents are the WORST teacher of sex ed
Thank God for the Internet.
marplots is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 05:28 AM   #341
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,706
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Those who know the basic principles which separate good and evil. Normally this is taught within the household by parents. Of course if one does not profess an understanding of morality, there are other avenues to finding it.

Here's an example of morality:

John has $100.
Bill would like to have $100 too.
Bill could bonk John on the head and take his $100.
Bill decides this would be wrong and asks John how he made his $100 as Bill would like to have $100 too.
Morality,.

Chris B.
Morality is a fickle thing, for instance...

John has $100.
Bill would like to have $100 too.
Bill could bonk John on the head and take his $100.
Bill decides that since John is weak and can't actually defend himself to keep his $100, then Bill would be doing him a favour by taking it, as this would teaching him that he needs to be tougher and to learn to fight for what he has if he wants to survive.

Morality.

Totally depends on how you decide to spin it.
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
My Apollo Page.
PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 05:42 AM   #342
ChrisBFRPKY
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,347
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Morality is a fickle thing, for instance...

John has $100.
Bill would like to have $100 too.
Bill could bonk John on the head and take his $100.
Bill decides that since John is weak and can't actually defend himself to keep his $100, then Bill would be doing him a favour by taking it, as this would teaching him that he needs to be tougher and to learn to fight for what he has if he wants to survive.

Morality.

Totally depends on how you decide to spin it.
That is funny, but what you have described would be a perfect norm for Middle East thinking when you think about it. Chris B.
__________________
One could choose to be civil though and still disagree. For example, since I know Bigfoot does exist, I don't call others "idiot" just because they're uneducated on the subject and share a different view based on that lack of experience. Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 07:32 AM   #343
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 41,809
Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Because parents do not have always the necessary knowledge, and the courage or the willingness to teach properly. That is why the "talk" is shown as cringeworthy in popular culture : because it is. It is a talk between both actor about something very intimate. Paradoxically it is FAR easier for a stranger to speak about the meat of the stuff.

And again, most parents will not have the necessary knowledge to tell you how fertility works, what contraceptive are , how they works, how they are used , etc... And don't start me on parents which adamantly want an abstinence ... Which will mostly not happen, see teenage preganncy rate again.

Parents are the WORST teacher of sex ed
I'm forty and my parents have yet to talk to me about sex. They're in their seventies, and have yet to hear from my grandparents about sex. Except for the day of my parents' wedding, my grandmother drew my mom aside and whispered "just lie there and endure it". That was the sum total of sexual knowledge passed down via the culturally-approved method of parents teaching children.
__________________
One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 08:46 AM   #344
Babbylonian
Philosopher
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 8,639
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm forty and my parents have yet to talk to me about sex. They're in their seventies, and have yet to hear from my grandparents about sex. Except for the day of my parents' wedding, my grandmother drew my mom aside and whispered "just lie there and endure it". That was the sum total of sexual knowledge passed down via the culturally-approved method of parents teaching children.
My mom was great about teaching me about sex. At least twice a week throughout my puberty, we sat down and watched Donahue together.
__________________
Never let anyone forget that the American people elected a rapist to be their president. President Rapist is the only name that should be used when referring to this evil narcissist.
Babbylonian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 08:58 AM   #345
fagin
Illuminator
 
fagin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 3,422
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
That is funny, but what you have described would be a perfect norm for Middle East thinking when you think about it. Chris B.
Wasn't your jesus from the Middle East?
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
fagin is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 09:04 AM   #346
Cleon
King of the Pod People
 
Cleon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 24,452
Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Wasn't your jesus from the Middle East?
Yeah, but he was a white European. It was a miracle or something.
__________________
"People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich
Cleon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 09:11 AM   #347
Resume
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,440
nm
__________________
A sentimental materialization of the kind of quasi‐rural bonhomie that seemed a millimeter from actual goose‐stepping and brown‐shirt uproars of bumpkin fascism.

Tom McGuane

Last edited by Resume; Yesterday at 09:15 AM.
Resume is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 10:15 AM   #348
fagin
Illuminator
 
fagin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 3,422
Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Yeah, but he was a white European. It was a miracle or something.
According to the internet, his mum was from New York...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5360996/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_7
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
fagin is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 11:39 AM   #349
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,723
Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Because parents do not have always the necessary knowledge, and the courage or the willingness to teach properly. That is why the "talk" is shown as cringeworthy in popular culture : because it is. It is a talk between both actor about something very intimate. Paradoxically it is FAR easier for a stranger to speak about the meat of the stuff.

And again, most parents will not have the necessary knowledge to tell you how fertility works, what contraceptive are , how they works, how they are used , etc... And don't start me on parents which adamantly want an abstinence ... Which will mostly not happen, see teenage preganncy rate again.

Parents are the WORST teacher of sex ed
Really? Every parent I know are very much involved with their children, you may not know any that are. That means I'm not going to hand over my responsibility to the state.

Quote:
Many people at young age and many parents even at adult age do DO NOT get it , especially the no-intercourse-required and not-all-intercourse-lead-to-pregnancy this is why it should be handled by teacher. And why precision is required. [/quote let those parents hand over their responsibilities to the state.

Quote:
It already is. Parents which work are leaving raising and educating 8hs long to others already. But far more importantely parents can teach their kids about the moral and ethic but they are not in the position in general to teach knowledge. What school can teach is knowledge. What parent can educate is the moral and ethics.
Again, let those parents who can't, hand it over to the state. I'm not!
Quote:
When you stop children having knowledge because of your own moral and ethics , you are doing a great disservice to children.
Agreed, those parents should be ashamed they don't love their children enough to handle these issues.

Last edited by logger; Yesterday at 11:41 AM.
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 12:03 PM   #350
Babbylonian
Philosopher
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 8,639
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Really? Every parent I know are very much involved with their children, you may not know any that are. That means I'm not going to hand over my responsibility to the state.
This is pure idiocy. It's not about "handing over [your] responsibility." It's about correctly and usefully educating children who go to public school. If you and the parents you know are "very much involved" with your children, then when they come back from school with information that contradicts your beliefs, you'll talk about it and the children will [obviously] come to their own decision on what to believe. If your children can't handle a quality sex ed class without going on a sex rampage, then you have failed, not "the state."

Your children are going to masturbate and at some point have sexual intercourse (or they already have). Wouldn't it be nice if they and all their eventual partners know that this is an absolutely natural process, that there is the potential for unfavorable outcomes, and that they have options when it comes to preventing those unfavorable outcomes?

See, this is where public school sex education comes in: To address the problem that not every parent is as great at teaching their kids as you are*.

*
__________________
Never let anyone forget that the American people elected a rapist to be their president. President Rapist is the only name that should be used when referring to this evil narcissist.
Babbylonian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 08:17 PM   #351
marplots
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 26,336
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
This is pure idiocy. It's not about "handing over [your] responsibility." It's about correctly and usefully educating children who go to public school. If you and the parents you know are "very much involved" with your children, then when they come back from school with information that contradicts your beliefs, you'll talk about it and the children will [obviously] come to their own decision on what to believe. If your children can't handle a quality sex ed class without going on a sex rampage, then you have failed, not "the state."

Your children are going to masturbate and at some point have sexual intercourse (or they already have). Wouldn't it be nice if they and all their eventual partners know that this is an absolutely natural process, that there is the potential for unfavorable outcomes, and that they have options when it comes to preventing those unfavorable outcomes?

See, this is where public school sex education comes in: To address the problem that not every parent is as great at teaching their kids as you are*.

*
It might be less controversial if we just called it "Biology class" instead of Sex Ed.
marplots is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 09:47 PM   #352
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,723
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
This is pure idiocy. It's not about "handing over [your] responsibility." It's about correctly and usefully educating children who go to public school. If you and the parents you know are "very much involved" with your children, then when they come back from school with information that contradicts your beliefs, you'll talk about it and the children will [obviously] come to their own decision on what to believe. If your children can't handle a quality sex ed class without going on a sex rampage, then you have failed, not "the state."

Your children are going to masturbate and at some point have sexual intercourse (or they already have). Wouldn't it be nice if they and all their eventual partners know that this is an absolutely natural process, that there is the potential for unfavorable outcomes, and that they have options when it comes to preventing those unfavorable outcomes?

See, this is where public school sex education comes in: To address the problem that not every parent is as great at teaching their kids as you are*.

*
I'd be great if I had a dollar every time a leftist told me to give up control and allow the state to take over. Maybe we should just outlaw leftists from having children, they don't seem to have the courage to even be a parent.
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 10:16 PM   #353
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,706
Originally Posted by logger View Post
I'd be great if I had a dollar every time a leftist told me to give up control and allow the state to take over. Maybe we should just outlaw leftists from having children, they don't seem to have the courage to even be a parent.
Maybe we should just scrap schools altogether because parents are obviously better at teaching everything to their kids than trained professions, and clearly any teaching that the parent does allow the school to do is allowing the State to raise the kid.
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
My Apollo Page.
PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 11:05 PM   #354
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 19,539
Originally Posted by logger View Post
I'd be great if I had a dollar every time a leftist told me to give up control and allow the state to take over. Maybe we should just outlaw leftists from having children, they don't seem to have the courage to even be a parent.
Well, I'm certainly glad to hear someone from your side of the aisle come out so strongly against school prayer.
__________________
Sir, I have found you an argument; but I am not obliged to find you an understanding. (Samuel Johnson)

I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 01:36 AM   #355
Aepervius
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,545
Originally Posted by logger View Post
I'd be great if I had a dollar every time a leftist told me to give up control and allow the state to take over. Maybe we should just outlaw leftists from having children, they don't seem to have the courage to even be a parent.
You are but one person with limited time, resource , teaching experience and knowledge, much lower in all those than a group of dozen, if not hundred of people pouring over a program to tailor it to teenager, be it math, physic, or biology. Are you ready to recognize this is not a "leftist propaganda" but rather a truth ?

Then if you recognize that your talk about control are about utter imbecilic. This is about teaching facts. Facts are not leftist , they are not rightist , they exists independent of political party. A fact is how long a woman is fertile in her cycle, what hormones are involved, and how to lower chance of pregnancy. Those are undeniable fact left/right/middle whatever your political affiliation.

If you cannot tell me what is LH and FSH without googling, and what are their role, and how they influence the endometrium, then you have no role telling us educating is giving control to the "leftist". And even if you DO know a bit, there are plenty like that which you will NOT know, but a biology program done and prepared by dozen/hundreds professionals over the year WILL know.

Furthermore as said above it is far far easier to teach a stranger on precise sex ed than with a parent.

If you can't recognize both of that, you have no business being a parent frankly. You do a great disservice to your child.

Parenting is about educating your child in proper manner, politeness, ethic and moral.
Leave to the expert the teaching of knowledge : the school.

Last edited by Aepervius; Today at 01:43 AM.
Aepervius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 01:40 AM   #356
Aepervius
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,545
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Maybe we should just scrap schools altogether because parents are obviously better at teaching everything to their kids than trained professions, and clearly any teaching that the parent does allow the school to do is allowing the State to raise the kid.
If I have had one dollar every time I hear a right wing person telling me they are better at teaching sex ed or bio (or anything else) than the school teacher... Well I would have had a few dozen dollar, maybe a hundred by now. The only one they are BSing is themselves and possibly their children.

The sad reality is that they simply want their children to not have sex, and want to fight biological imperative by stopping knowledge getting to their children. Completely utterly imbecilic and is enough to explain the high rate of teenage pregnancy in the US. The role of a parent is not to teach knowledge, they mostly don't have enough. Their role is to try to educate cultural values. Logger seem to be confusing the one for the other.

Last edited by Aepervius; Today at 01:42 AM.
Aepervius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 02:08 AM   #357
Porpoise of Life
Graduate Poster
 
Porpoise of Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,926
Originally Posted by logger View Post
I'd be great if I had a dollar every time a leftist told me to give up control and allow the state to take over. Maybe we should just outlaw leftists from having children, they don't seem to have the courage to even be a parent.
What, outlaw? You'd hand over responsibility to the state? You commie.
Porpoise of Life is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:09 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.