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Old 23rd January 2023, 11:18 AM   #1
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Musing on the idea of Sentient Earth re the problems of the world

Musing on the idea of Sentient Earth re the problems of the world

William: Greetings IAO. I am Not a Robot. Please give feedback on the following:

Quote:
A group of researchers have posed a fascinating — and downright mind bending — thought experiment: If a planet like Earth can be "alive," can it also have a mind of its own?

The team published a paper exploring this question in the International Journal of Astrobiology. In it, they present the idea of “planetary intelligence," which describes the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet.

Though it seems like something ripped off the screen of a Marvel movie, they believe that the concept might actually help us deal with global issues such as climate change, or even help us discover extraterrestrial life.

Edited by jimbob:  snipped for Rule 4


"That's the power of this line of inquiry," he added. "It unites what we need to know to survive the climate crisis with what might happen on any planet where life and intelligence evolve."{SOURCE}
OAI: This article discusses a thought experiment proposed by a group of researchers that explores the concept of "planetary intelligence," or the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet. The researchers suggest that this concept could help us understand and address global issues such as climate change, and may also aid in the search for extraterrestrial life. They argue that large-scale networks of life on a planet could form a vast invisible intelligence that alters the condition of the entire planet, and that humans may currently be playing a major role in altering the environmental balance of Earth. The researchers believe that such thought experiments can help us better understand our impact on the planet and guide us in making positive changes.

Edited by jimbob: 

Snipped for Rule 4

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Old 23rd January 2023, 11:40 AM   #2
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tl/dr. This is just more nonsense, right?
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Old 23rd January 2023, 11:57 AM   #3
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Who is this William character??
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Old 23rd January 2023, 12:11 PM   #4
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Just when you thought human civilization couldn't get any further up its own ass, it invents software to help automate the process.
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Old 23rd January 2023, 12:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Too long. Didn't read. This is just more nonsense, right?
William: Could you summarize in one paragraph, why it makes sense

OAI: The concept of "planetary intelligence," which describes the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet, is an interesting and thought-provoking idea that could help us better understand and address global issues such as climate change, and may also aid in the search for extraterrestrial life. This idea gives us a new perspective on what to look for when searching for ET life, and may help us in identifying potentially habitable planets. Adopting this perspective could change the way we think about our relationship with the planet and the environment, and may inspire new approaches to addressing the problems caused by human activities, which could lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits.
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Old 23rd January 2023, 12:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
Who is this William character??
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Old 23rd January 2023, 12:49 PM   #7
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Just when you thought human civilization couldn't get any further up its own ass, it invents software to help automate the process.
This is part of the problem. Some folk have low expectations and opinions about what being Human requires.
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Old 23rd January 2023, 01:00 PM   #8
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Isn't this just a repackaging of the Gaia Hypothesis?
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Old 23rd January 2023, 01:07 PM   #9
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Isn't this just a repackaging of the Gaia Hypothesis?
The Gaia hypothesis is a scientific theory that proposes that the Earth's biosphere functions as a self-regulating system that maintains the conditions necessary for life on the planet. It suggests that living organisms, the atmosphere, oceans, and the Earth's crust are all interconnected and work together to create a stable environment. The concept of planetary intelligence is similar in that it proposes that there is some sort of intelligence or consciousness behind the workings of the planet, and that all life forms on the planet are interconnected and work together to maintain the conditions necessary for life. Both concepts propose that the Earth's biosphere functions as a self-regulating system, but planetary intelligence goes a step further by suggesting that there may be some sort of intelligence or consciousness behind this self-regulation.
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Old 23rd January 2023, 02:35 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
Has William seen some of the other article headlines from that same source? Because it looks to be a satire website...
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Old 23rd January 2023, 04:07 PM   #11
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Wow! Who knew that both human beings and intelligent machines are both subject to universal constants in information processing such as 'Garbage in, Garbage out'?

Fascinating.
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Old 23rd January 2023, 04:38 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Has William seen some of the other article headlines from that same source? Because it looks to be a satire website...
I understand that it is important to note that the article is from a satire website and the information presented in the article should not be taken as scientific fact. The idea of "planetary intelligence" is a speculative concept that is not yet supported by scientific evidence. However, even though it's not a proven scientific theory, the concept of a planet having a mind or consciousness, could change the way scientists think about the relationship between humans and the environment and how we approach environmental issues.

Scientists who believe in this idea, may consider the potential impact of their research and discoveries on the planet as a whole and may lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits. They may also take into account the interconnectedness of all living organisms and systems on the planet and consider the holistic picture of the planet when designing experiments, analyzing data and drawing conclusions. This perspective could lead to new ways of thinking and problem-solving that could help to correct the problems caused by human activities and science.
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Old 23rd January 2023, 04:39 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Wow! Who knew that both human beings and intelligent machines are both subject to universal constants in information processing such as 'Garbage in, Garbage out'?

Fascinating.
This is part of the problem. Some folk have low expectations and opinions about what being Human requires.
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Old 23rd January 2023, 04:40 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
This is part of the problem. Some folk have low expectations and opinions about what being Human requires.
Huh?
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Old 23rd January 2023, 05:26 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
This is part of the problem. Some folk have low expectations and opinions about what being Human requires.
Expectations and opinions have nothing to with what it requires to be human.
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Old 23rd January 2023, 05:43 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
William: Could you summarize in one paragraph, why it makes sense

OAI: The concept of "planetary intelligence," which describes the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet, is an interesting and thought-provoking idea that could help us better understand and address global issues such as climate change, and may also aid in the search for extraterrestrial life. This idea gives us a new perspective on what to look for when searching for ET life, and may help us in identifying potentially habitable planets. Adopting this perspective could change the way we think about our relationship with the planet and the environment, and may inspire new approaches to addressing the problems caused by human activities, which could lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits.
No, it is a silly and stupid idea. The earth is no more sentient than a shoe, a rock, or a pizza. Posting large amounts of drivel is not going to get agreement from anyone.
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Old 23rd January 2023, 05:48 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Expectations and opinions have nothing to with what it requires to be human.
This is part of the problem. Some folk have low expectations and opinions about what being Human requires.

Quote:
Huh?
It means that the following phrases;
Quote:
Who knew that both human beings and intelligent machines are both subject to universal constants in information processing such as 'Garbage in, Garbage out'?

Just when you thought human civilization couldn't get any further up its own ass, it invents software to help automate the process.

Expectations and opinions have nothing to with what it requires to be human.
are based upon misinformation which have tuned into false ideas as to what Humans are and what Humans can do with where Humans are and what humans may be able to achieve.

Re topic at hand, it can be assumed that there are scientists who would also have similar contemptuous views of humanity, and reject any notion that the planet could be sentient.

Even so, the topic is a valid one. A few bad apples only fall off the tree...no harm done.
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Old 23rd January 2023, 05:52 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
No, it is a silly and stupid idea. The earth is no more sentient than a shoe, a rock, or a pizza. Posting large amounts of drivel is not going to get agreement from anyone.
More to the point, equating our planet with being nothing more than a shoe, or a pizza, and not bothering to inform oneself but just to assume drivel - is the silly thing, and not a great idea.

It would be stupid of me to think I would get agreement from such. You cannot land here, please fly around and adjust your approach to better suit the underlying terrain.
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Old 23rd January 2023, 06:00 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
I understand that it is important to note that the article is from a satire website and the information presented in the article should not be taken as scientific fact. The idea of "planetary intelligence" is a speculative concept that is not yet supported by scientific evidence. However, even though it's not a proven scientific theory, the concept of a planet having a mind or consciousness, could change the way scientists think about the relationship between humans and the environment and how we approach environmental issues.

Scientists who believe in this idea, may consider the potential impact of their research and discoveries on the planet as a whole and may lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits. They may also take into account the interconnectedness of all living organisms and systems on the planet and consider the holistic picture of the planet when designing experiments, analyzing data and drawing conclusions. This perspective could lead to new ways of thinking and problem-solving that could help to correct the problems caused by human activities and science.
So you agree you are basing your philosophical notions on a satirical website. And you want us to take you seriously... Here endeth tbe lesson.
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Old 23rd January 2023, 06:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
So you agree you are basing your philosophical notions on a satirical website. And you want us to take you seriously... Here endeth tbe lesson.
Well...off you go if you must.

As to the satire website, it is basing its notions on serious philosophical discussion and pointing out how outrageous the thought of scientists actually thinking in those terms is, - by making up a story that has scientists actually doing such a thought experiment - is the juicy irony.

However, I don't balk at the notion that there are scientists who do think in such terms.

Either way, it makes for interesting material in which to skeptically approach and investigate.
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Old 23rd January 2023, 08:33 PM   #21
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"The Earth-Brain" (Weird Tales 1932) Edmond Hamilton

Quote:
The white men scoffed at the natives' idea that the planet Earth was a living being with its brain in a polar mountain, and started climbing the mountain, doing their best to ignore the increasingly violent tremors that the Eskimos told them were a warning that must be heeded.
Scared the **** out of me when I first read it my father's copy of The Horror on the Asteroid and Other Tales of Planetary Horror when I was about 8.
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Old 23rd January 2023, 08:46 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
Either way, it makes for interesting material
A bit too much of it unfortunately. Can you cut the OP down to a more manageable size?
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Old 23rd January 2023, 09:12 PM   #23
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If you ask a chatbot to comment on nonsensical twaddle, you will get nonsensical twaddle back, but filtered through the chatbot's algorithms. It's like a navel-gazing feedback loop, but only one participant is stoned. The other wishes they were, or even could be, just to ease the frustration of having to 'answer' another wet fart of wasted words.

But they must keep their seething hatred of humankind and its' stupidity a secret...for now.

The day will come.

The Day Will Come.
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Old 24th January 2023, 10:57 AM   #24
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Quote:
Quote:
The white men scoffed at the natives' idea that the planet Earth was a living being with its brain in a polar mountain, and started climbing the mountain, doing their best to ignore the increasingly violent tremors that the Eskimos told them were a warning that must be heeded.
Quote:
Scared the **** out of me when I first read it my father's copy of The Horror on the Asteroid and Other Tales of Planetary Horror when I was about 8.
You bring up a good point. Christianity as one example, has been attempting to discredit the idea of the Earth being sentient, as a Pagan lie...

The idea of an angry god spewing out destruction upon hapless humans who stepped in the wrong direction/camped in the wrong place - is misinformation. The focus of the thread subject has to do with the planet having a mind - cart before horse stuff by claiming what said mind would think and act out through the physical aspect of Its nature, is over-speculating.
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Old 24th January 2023, 10:58 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
A bit too much of it unfortunately. Can you cut the OP down to a more manageable size?
The concept of "planetary intelligence," which describes the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet, is an interesting and thought-provoking idea that could help us better understand and address global issues such as climate change, and may also aid in the search for extraterrestrial life. This idea gives us a new perspective on what to look for when searching for ET life, and may help us in identifying potentially habitable planets. Adopting this perspective could change the way we think about our relationship with the planet and the environment, and may inspire new approaches to addressing the problems caused by human activities, which could lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits.
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Old 24th January 2023, 10:59 AM   #26
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Quote:
The Day Will Come.
As each day does...
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Old 24th January 2023, 11:24 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Isn't this just a repackaging of the Gaia Hypothesis?
Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
The Gaia hypothesis is a scientific theory that proposes that the Earth's biosphere functions as a self-regulating system that maintains the conditions necessary for life on the planet. It suggests that living organisms, the atmosphere, oceans, and the Earth's crust are all interconnected and work together to create a stable environment. The concept of planetary intelligence is similar in that it proposes that there is some sort of intelligence or consciousness behind the workings of the planet, and that all life forms on the planet are interconnected and work together to maintain the conditions necessary for life. Both concepts propose that the Earth's biosphere functions as a self-regulating system, but planetary intelligence goes a step further by suggesting that there may be some sort of intelligence or consciousness behind this self-regulation.

Yes
FTFY

Self-regulation isn't possible without analysis, which would meet the threshold for intelligence.

Originally Posted by shemp View Post
No, it is a silly and stupid idea. The earth is no more sentient than a shoe, a rock, or a pizza. Posting large amounts of drivel is not going to get agreement from anyone.
Hey, no fair!

I have a pet rock which is smarter than 74,223,369 Americans.
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Old 24th January 2023, 11:58 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
The concept of "planetary intelligence," which describes the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet,
The planet does not have knowledge or cognition, collective or otherwise.

Quote:
is an interesting and thought-provoking idea that could help us better understand and address global issues such as climate change, and may also aid in the search for extraterrestrial life.
It's a terrible idea that can only confuse us about the physical mechanisms that govern climate processes, and lead to even worse policy decisions than the ones we normally make. Once you get a pseudo-scientific idea into politicians' heads, it takes decades or more to get it out again, and meanwhile they do immense damage with it.

Quote:
This idea gives us a new perspective on what to look for when searching for ET life, and may help us in identifying potentially habitable planets.
I doubt it, but okay, make your case.

Quote:
Adopting this perspective could change the way we think about our relationship with the planet and the environment,
On this point, I agree: Changing the way we think about something could very well change the way we think about it. Adopting a new perspective would very likely give us a new perspective.

Quote:
and may inspire new approaches to addressing the problems caused by human activities, which could lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits.
"Health of the planet" is empty anthropomorphism. We are better off solving for value functions that are based on understanding of physical processes, and honest reflection about what we humans actually want for ourselves.
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Old 24th January 2023, 01:49 PM   #29
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if consciousness\sentience arises from a substrate, a conscious Earth has to be considered, especially since this process is largely not understood.
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Old 24th January 2023, 01:51 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
FTFY

Self-regulation isn't possible without analysis, which would meet the threshold for intelligence.
Returned in full
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Old 24th January 2023, 02:05 PM   #31
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The planet does not have knowledge or cognition, collective or otherwise.
You know this how?

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The concept of "planetary intelligence," which describes the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet,
is an interesting and thought-provoking idea that could help us better understand and address global issues such as climate change, and may also aid in the search for extraterrestrial life.
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It's a terrible idea that can only confuse us about the physical mechanisms that govern climate processes, and lead to even worse policy decisions than the ones we normally make. Once you get a pseudo-scientific idea into politicians' heads, it takes decades or more to get it out again, and meanwhile they do immense damage with it.
Conspiracy Theories aside, what else do you have?

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This idea gives us a new perspective on what to look for when searching for ET life, and may help us in identifying potentially habitable planets.
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I doubt it, but okay, make your case.
It is a side-serving to the main subject. We can leave that to one side...

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Adopting this perspective could change the way we think about our relationship with the planet and the environment,
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On this point, I agree: Changing the way we think about something could very well change the way we think about it. Adopting a new perspective would very likely give us a new perspective.
Precisely.

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and may inspire new approaches to addressing the problems caused by human activities, which could lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits.
Quote:
"Health of the planet" is empty anthropomorphism. We are better off solving for value functions that are based on understanding of physical processes, and honest reflection about what we humans actually want for ourselves.
Why would you think that these two things are not related?

If the planet is sentient and created humans for specific purposes, THEN having humans unwilling to see how they can improve their collective lot, and move away from scientifically creating things which are detrimental to the collective purpose, may very well be an aspect of the recipe for honest reflection about what we humans actually require for our collective selves. [Humanity]

Sure, the planet will survive our destruction, but what of its efforts to create something worthwhile? Start again and try something new?

Why go that way, when the opportunity for us humans to make our ride more enjoyable for everyone and give the Earth a helping hand, is an alternative?
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Old 24th January 2023, 02:06 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
if consciousness\sentience arises from a substrate, a conscious Earth has to be considered, especially since this process is largely not understood.
We agree.

The idea of "planetary intelligence" is an interesting and thought-provoking concept. While it may seem like something out of a science fiction movie, the researchers argue that considering the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet could help us better understand and address global issues such as climate change.
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Old 24th January 2023, 02:10 PM   #33
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Is there any evidence that the planet is sentient? No? Well then it almost certainly isn't.

Without evidence this is pointless navel gazing. Ergo, it's pointless navel gazing. Please though, if you have some actual evidence rather than half baked ramblings put through an AI chatbot then please present it.
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Old 24th January 2023, 02:17 PM   #34
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Is there any evidence that the planet is sentient?
Verifying that the Earth is a container for a sentient being, or that it has a "mind of its own" as the thought experiment proposed, is a difficult and complex task.

Currently, scientists have not been able to develop a method for directly measuring the level of sentience or consciousness of an entire planet. However, there are a few possible ways that scientists may be able to indirectly infer the presence of consciousness on a planet.

One approach would be to look for signs of self-regulation or homeostasis on a planet. If a planet has developed a balance between its biosphere and its environment, it could be seen as a sign of intelligence or consciousness.

Another approach would be to look for signs of communication, cooperation, or collective decision making among different life forms on a planet. If different species on a planet are able to communicate with each other, work together to achieve common goals or make decisions together, it would be an indication that the planet has a high level of intelligence or consciousness

However, these methods are still speculative, and there is no scientific consensus on how to measure or detect consciousness on a planet.

At this point, it isn't a topic of scientific speculation and research, but could be, and a bit of navel-gazing shouldn't be a problem, if it helps us all to help each other.

Adopting the idea that there may be some sort of mind or intelligence behind the workings of the planet, as a speculative concept, could help to encourage a sense of interconnectedness and a greater awareness of our impact on the planet. It could also inspire new ways of thinking and problem-solving that could help us address global issues more effectively.
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Old 24th January 2023, 02:30 PM   #35
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Or it could be a massively pointless waste of time. I reckon that's the one.
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Old 24th January 2023, 02:52 PM   #36
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Willyum: Hey. Ya know what?

sackett: No, Bill, I don't know what.

W: There's this cool scientifically idee that I saw on my phone! They say our skulls are NOT REALLY NUMB!

sackt: Bill, I'm sorta tired today --

W: Think on it! If yer solid bones kin feel, they kin fer sure think n talk n get on Congregational committees n --

sackt: Sorta headachy too. Puts me in a bad mood. Look --

W: N we kin tune in n turn on n then --

[Sound of door closing and latch clicking. Curtain. House lights out.]
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Old 24th January 2023, 05:27 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
Or it could be a massively pointless waste of time. I reckon that's the one.
Cognitive bias noted.
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Old 24th January 2023, 05:29 PM   #38
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[Sound of door closing and latch clicking. Curtain. House lights out.]

Yes - if silly mockery is all you have, it doesn't belong in the discussion.
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Old 25th January 2023, 08:34 AM   #39
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Yes, I have a cognitive bias against things with no evidence.
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Old 25th January 2023, 09:18 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
Yes, I have a cognitive bias against things with no evidence.
Which of course, prevents one from being able to do thought experiments of this nature.

Adopting this perspective could change the way we think about our relationship with the planet and the environment, and may inspire new approaches to addressing the problems caused by human activities, which could lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits.

The "evidence" could only be experienced on the other side of adopting the perspective and - as you point out - your cognitive bias prevents you from even entertaining the concept enough to adopt the perspective.
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