Electric universe theories here.

[jonesdave116]

Dr. Donald Scott: Intergalactic Birkeland Currents

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6VUy5Bt5Es

@ ~ 1:00;

Originally Posted by Scott

Birkeland currents don't only go between the Sun and the Earth, they go between the Sun and Saturn, and the Sun and Uranus, and Neptune......

.

Hannes Alfven:

Originally Posted by Alfven, 1939

The correlation of the magnetic storms and aurorae with the solar activity indicates that they are due to some agent emitted from the sun. As this agent causes magnetic and electric disturbances on the earth, it probably consists of charged particles. But, as Schuster has shown, the emission of a sufficient amount of particles, all having the same sign, is impossible because it would give rise to an enormous space charge. This difficulty is avoided if the emitted agent is assumed to consist of the equal amount of positive and negative particles.
Consequently the general nature of the current system during the main phase of a magnetic storm must be somewhat as follows. The stream approaching the earth contains positive and negative charge in equal amounts so that the electric current is zero.
Through the action of the magnetic field of the earth the paths of the positives and of the negatives become differentiated, but until the particles reach the forbidden region, the space charge is always zero because the positives and negatives neutralize each other.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Answered. Summarizing, we report important properties of CSs formed in the turbulent solar wind that are associated with electrons becoming the main current carriers.


Mainstream, you, have only recently “discovered” this.

Nope, currents in the solar wind have been known about for decades.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Don Scott was right...outplayed by retired electrical engineer and neo-Velikovskian mythologist, ouch for the mainstream!

That is the execrable 'paper' where the clown tries to claim the Butterfly nebula (M2-9) is a z-pinch!

Here is a rough outline of what a z-pinch does;

>>>>>>>>>>>>*>>>>>>>>>>>

where > is the current and its direction of flow, and * is where it pinches.

And here is what we see from Doppler measurements of the M2-9 nebula;

<<<<<<<<<<<<*>>>>>>>>>>>

where < & > are the plasma and its direction of travel, and * is the central star.

M2-9: A PLANETARY NEBULA WITH AN ERUPTIVE NUCLEUS?
Balick, B. (1989!!!!)
https://adsabs.harvard.edu/pdf/1989AJ.....97..476B

See Fig. 2.

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by jonesdave116

Will you learn to read? The solar wind can contain currents. Got it? Is the solar wind as a whole a current, as claimed by the clown Scott? No, it isn't. As Alfven keeps telling you. Want me to quote him for the 20th time? Which part of this are you not understanding? What is the Debye length? What does it describe?
Do I need to draw a picture? Are Alfven's words too complicated for you?

You ok mate?

What the hell are you banging on about? Did you think one gianormous big power cable or something?

[tusenfem]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Seems it’s pretty quite, magnetically, whilst whistling thru the centre of a force free electric current.

So again we get nothing, apart from your "current" claim.
Please show us in detail what you mean with this sentence.
There is no use discussing stuff if you cannot express yourself correctly.

[tusenfem]

Originally Posted by Sol88

For prosperity...

If only you understood what was written.

[tusenfem]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Quote:

Fig. 5: The pitch angle of the helical total magnetic field, B vector, that encircles a field-aligned current changes continuously with increasing radial distance from the central axis of the current.

There are no abrupt quantum jumps or breaks in this angle’s change or in the field’s magnitude. One cycle (0◦–360◦) of the pitch angle is shown. The cycle is sketched at eleven incrementally increasing sample values of radius.

The shaded arrows show the total magnetic field direction at each value of radius, r, and the white arrows show the field direction at an increment just below each of those values of radius

As observed in the switchbacks!

Then I am sure you can give clear examples of this "pitch angle rotation" at a switchback.

And why on Earth would one come up with "there are no abrupt quantum jumps". Who in his right mind would expect that there are "quantum jumps" in the magnetic field? Scott trying to make himself sound important.

[tusenfem]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Answered. Summarizing, we report important properties of CSs formed in the turbulent solar wind that are associated with electrons becoming the main current carriers.


Mainstream, you, have only recently “discovered” this.

Why would a current sheet be "quiet" as described by Dudok de Wit?

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by tusenfem

Why would a current sheet be "quiet" as described by Dudok de Wit?

Instead of force free you mean? Or?

Electrons carry the bulk of the current. All the little electrons all going the same direction bit like laminar flow.

Less noise that way, so they are “quite”. I’d hazard a guess and say they are hard to detect except to fly thru one.

Not some much “dark” but “quite”,

What were you thinking?

[Sol88]

Lots of new papers to read. Cheers for the links.

Looking at reverse flux tubes in Saturn along with flux tubes in and out of the sun.

All electric fields and currents so far.

Oh, and the magnetic bit you look at.

[W.D.Clinger]

Quoting for posterity:

Originally Posted by Sol88

For prosperity...

Peach and bong strife.

Originally Posted by tusenfem

If only you understood what was written.

[tusenfem]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Instead of force free you mean? Or?

Electrons carry the bulk of the current. All the little electrons all going the same direction bit like laminar flow.

Less noise that way, so they are “quite”. I’d hazard a guess and say they are hard to detect except to fly thru one.

Not some much “dark” but “quite”,

What were you thinking?

I am thinking that you actually mean "quite" instead of "quiet".
YOU bring up all kinds of stuff, and then ask an explanation from me????

[Steve]

Originally Posted by tusenfem

I am thinking that you actually mean "quite" instead of "quiet".
YOU bring up all kinds of stuff, and then ask an explanation from me????

Well Sol88 obviously needs someone to try to explain it. The understanding of the topic Sol88 has displayed in these threads is rather lacking. And Sol88's other self-researched sources certainly explain nothing.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

You ok mate?

What the hell are you banging on about? Did you think one gianormous big power cable or something?

What are you banging on about? Other than a subject in which you are clearly clueless? The solar wind is not a current. Scott claims it is. That is impossible, as Alfven explained. Ergo, Scott is wrong, and your electric sun woo is impossible. However, we already knew that. That is why it does not exist in the peer-reviewed literature, and is only believed by the hard of thinking. It is flat earth level idiocy.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Did you think one gianormous big power cable or something?

That is what Scott claims. Do I need to explain your own woo to you? Again? He wants Birkeland currents coming from the Sun to power the aurorae. That is idiocy squared. As Alfven explained.

[tusenfem]

Originally Posted by jonesdave116

That is what Scott claims. Do I need to explain your own woo to you? Again? He wants Birkeland currents coming from the Sun to power the aurorae. That is idiocy squared. As Alfven explained.

I think Sol88 is lost, somehow.
He drops stuff in this thread, and then wants it explained.
And he makes EU claims, and then attacks them as if we made those claims (like the ginormous power cable or whatever).

[Sol88]

The particles reach the forbidden region??

What forbidden region?

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Sol88

The particles reach the forbidden region??

What forbidden region?

Well that sure came out of left field! You ok?

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

The particles reach the forbidden region??

What forbidden region?

ScreenHunter_46 Jan. 24 22.07.jpg

[Sol88]

Do you think Alvfen may like access to update his initial thoughts?


He’s still on the money considering...

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by tusenfem

I think Sol88 is lost, somehow.
He drops stuff in this thread, and then wants it explained.
And he makes EU claims, and then attacks them as if we made those claims (like the ginormous power cable or whatever).

I’m assuming you’ve read some of the papers you’ve linked to?

Those outgoing positive flux tubes seem to have nested negative flux tubes in side. The centre of which is force free electron current.

Like Don Scott has mentioned and did some maths on too. I believe some people had a problem with alpha and no boundary or some such. Well...

Seems there are “lots” of them. Nested bundles of flux tubes.

When these things reconnect....

[Sol88]

Seems like the solar wind is only quasi neutral if you go to the scales oh MHD, otherwise structure all the way down....

Electric fields, including double layers, funnily enough.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Do you think Alvfen may like access to update his initial thoughts?


He’s still on the money considering...

He got some of the detail wrong on the interaction, but it was basically sound. And it does not require the solar wind to be a current! As he said, that is impossible. And he certainly never changed his mind on that.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Seems like the solar wind is only quasi neutral if you go to the scales oh MHD, otherwise structure all the way down....

Electric fields, including double layers, funnily enough.

Nope, it is quasi-neutral by definition, as it has to be. The definition, that is, of those with a clue. Unlike clueless EEs.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

I’m assuming you’ve read some of the papers you’ve linked to?

Those outgoing positive flux tubes seem to have nested negative flux tubes in side. The centre of which is force free electron current.

Where the hell did anyone say that? You don't understand what you are reading. Why would you? Just accept that and move on.

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by jonesdave116

Where the hell did anyone say that? You don't understand what you are reading. Why would you? Just accept that and move on.

Got a new term for you Evershed flows and counter Evershed flows

Just brushing up now as they seem to have relevance for
Switchbacks in the Near-Sun Magnetic Field: Long Memory and Impact on the Turbulence Cascade

Quote:

These properties, and in particular the long memory of the rate of occurrence of switchbacks, are compatible with a physical picture in which these structures are the signature of kinked magnetic flux tubes that are moving past the spacecraft. The combined long memory and high anisotropy of these events offer favorable conditions for anomalous particle transport.

Electron-to-ion Bulk Speed Ratio as a Parameter Reflecting the Occurrence of Strong Electron-dominated Current Sheets in the Solar Wind

Quote:

Abstract

Current sheets (CSs) are preferred sites of magnetic reconnection and energy dissipation in astrophysical plasmas. Electric currents in them may be carried by both electrons and ions.

In our prior theoretical studies of the CS formation in turbulent plasmas, we utilized fully kinetic and hybrid code simulations with ions considered as particles and electrons—as a massless fluid.

We found that electron-dominated CSs in which electrons become the main carriers of the electric current and contributors to energy dissipation may form inside or nearby ion-dominated CSs.

Quote:

Contrary to the magnetosphere, there have not been investigations of properties of CSs determined by the electron currents in the heliosphere so far.

Studies of CSs in the solar wind are focused on ion CSs only.

Quote:

Theoretical studies predict that ion- and electron-dominated CSs may be observed by a spacecraft in different ways.

First, a thin electron-dominated CS can be embedded in the wider ion-dominated CS (Malova et al. 2017).

Second, spatially separated electric currents in which electrons and ions are main carriers may form at reconnecting CSs, due to the effect of partial separation of charges (Zharkova & Khabarova 2012, 2015; Khabarova et al. 2020).

Quote:

Numerical studies of the CS formation in turbulent plasmas by fully kinetic and by hybrid code simulations (in which ions are considered as particles and electrons as a fluid) found that thin electron-scale CSs can be formed inside ion scale thicker CSs (e.g., Malova et al. 2017; Azizabadi et al.2021).

Simulations done for the magnetospheric conditions suggest that electron-dominated CSs can also exist independently of ion CSs (see, e.g., Zelenyi et al. 2020 and references therein)

What say ye, jd116? Don Scott correct?

[Sol88]

Is the solar wind considered a turbulent plasma/s, jd116?

Or a big power cable with a gazzillion gamma rays frying Earth or whatever it is you bang on about when it gets a bit hot under your feet.

Are you capable?

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

What say ye, jd116? Don Scott correct?

Not. Even. Close. Birkeland currents do not leave the Sun. The solar wind is quasi-neutral. Zero net current. As it must be. As Alfven told us. He was right, the clown Scott is wrong. Unsurprisingly.

Do you agree with Alfven, or the engineer? Is the sum of the charge of the total number of positive charges leaving the Sun, the same as the sum of the negative charges leaving the Sun?

Alfven, or Scott? Make your mind up. That will tell us a whole lot about your understanding, or lack thereof, of the subject.

We detect ~ equal numbers of ions and electrons in the ecliptic. Which direction are they heading in? Are they both going the same way? As they must, given that the magnetic field is heading outwards. Or are the ions heading out, and the electrons heading in (impossibly)?

Basic plasma physics, or Scott?

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Is the solar wind considered a turbulent plasma/s, jd116?

Or a big power cable with a gazzillion gamma rays frying Earth or whatever it is you bang on about when it gets a bit hot under your feet.

Are you capable?

What the hell are you prattling on about now? Of course it can be turbulent. Ever heard of CMEs? Waves? CIRs?

And what the hell have gamma rays got to do with anything? That is what would have prevented our evolution if, as the dozy clown Scott claims, the fusion which produces the detected neutrinos was occurring on the surface/ in the atmosphere of the Sun. Fusion = gamma rays. Gamma rays = death. You need to put the fusion somewhere where the mean free path of those gamma photons is tiny, so they lose a whole lot of energy on the way out of the Sun. That would be the core. Putting it on the surface/ in the atmosphere, would have rendered this planet uninhabitable long since.

So, let's add nuclear physics to plasma physics as subjects in which Scott is demonstrably clueless. However, we already knew that.

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by jonesdave116

Not. Even. Close. Birkeland currents do not leave the Sun. The solar wind is quasi-neutral. Zero net current. As it must be. As Alfven told us. He was right, the clown Scott is wrong. Unsurprisingly.

Do you agree with Alfven, or the engineer? Is the sum of the charge of the total number of positive charges leaving the Sun, the same as the sum of the negative charges leaving the Sun?

Alfven, or Scott? Make your mind up. That will tell us a whole lot about your understanding, or lack thereof, of the subject.

We detect ~ equal numbers of ions and electrons in the ecliptic. Which direction are they heading in? Are they both going the same way? As they must, given that the magnetic field is heading outwards. Or are the ions heading out, and the electrons heading in (impossibly)?

Basic plasma physics, or Scott?

First, a thin electron-dominated CS can be embedded in the wider ion-dominated CS (Malova et al. 2017).



Your maths was wrong!




Id be embarrassed too, whilst doubling down on incorrect dogma!

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

First, a thin electron-dominated CS can be embedded in the wider ion-dominated CS (Malova et al. 2017).



Your maths was wrong!




Id be embarrassed too, whilst doubling down on incorrect dogma!

Which has precisely nothing to do with the idiotic claim that the solar wind is a current. Alfven told you why that is impossible. You are reading things that you don't understand. As usual.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

First, a thin electron-dominated CS can be embedded in the wider ion-dominated CS (Malova et al. 2017).



Your maths was wrong!




Id be embarrassed too, whilst doubling down on incorrect dogma!

Is that this paper?;

EVIDENCE FOR QUASI-ADIABATIC MOTION OF CHARGED PARTICLES IN STRONG CURRENT SHEETS IN THE SOLAR WIND
Malova, H. V. et al (2017)
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/1...7/834/1/34/pdf

The one in which they say;

Originally Posted by Malova, et al

As for magnetized electrons, because of their small gyroradii, their motion can be described in the drift approximation (Zelenyi et al. 2004). The electrons are assumed to be fast enough to support a quasi equilibrium Boltzmann distribution, and the condition of quasi-neutrality ni ≈ ne is also assumed.

My bolding.

That the one? What about it?

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Second, spatially separated electric currents in which electrons and ions are main carriers may form at reconnecting CSs, due to the effect of partial separation of charges (Zharkova & Khabarova 2012, 2015; Khabarova et al. 2020).

My bolding.

PARTICLE DYNAMICS IN THE RECONNECTING HELIOSPHERIC CURRENT SHEET: SOLAR WIND DATA VERSUS THREE-DIMENSIONAL PARTICLE-IN-CELL SIMULATIONS
Zharkova, V. V. & Khabarova, O. V. (2012)
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/1...X/752/1/35/pdf

Originally Posted by Zharkova & Khabarova, 2012

The distribution of a charge density ρ(x), which generates the polarization field E˜x(x), is shown in Figure 14 for different profiles of this electric field Zharkova & Agapitov (2009). This charge density distribution is likely to reflect the distributions of transit and bounced protons inside the current sheet described in Section 3.2.1 (see Figure 11) where the larger central peak measured in the plot (Figure 14) is formed by the bounced protons while the two smaller peaks at about ±1 × rpz are formed by the transit protons. Note that the average charge density over the simulation region is close to zero, which mean that the current sheet as a whole remains electrically neutral.

My bolding.

Now, what could they possibly mean by that? I think they mean what you have been told all along, and don't seem to be able to grasp. Then again, who can blame you, when the high priests you follow, who sell you this nonsense, can't understand it themselves?

That is why engineers should stick to engineering. Scott's nonsense reminds one of the Salem Hypothesis.

Originally Posted by Rational Wiki

The Salem Hypothesis is the observation of an apparent correlation between the engineering trade and creationist beliefs (possibly due to crank magnetism, this can also include climate-change denial and other crackpot beliefs).

My bolding.

[Sol88]

Quote:

No electron-dominated CSs have been observed in the solar wind before because it was supposed that they should have an electron-scale width unresolvable by spacecraft.

This study shows the first example of a CS with the current driven by electrons as observed by the MMS mission in the solar wind, outside the magnetosphere and the foreshock area.

Tusenfem should be a full bottle on this example.

Nested draped magnetic fields...mmmmmm?

[tusenfem]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Do you think Alvfen may like access to update his initial thoughts?


He’s still on the money considering...

Somehow I doubt he will be able to do that ...

[tusenfem]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Got a new term for you Evershed flows and counter Evershed flows

So just to make the discussion even muddier, you come up with something you found on the web, which deals with flows on the surface of the Sun, either away from a penumbra or in fewer cases towards the penumbra.

We will ignore this, thank you very much.

[The Man]

Originally Posted by jonesdave116

My bolding.

PARTICLE DYNAMICS IN THE RECONNECTING HELIOSPHERIC CURRENT SHEET: SOLAR WIND DATA VERSUS THREE-DIMENSIONAL PARTICLE-IN-CELL SIMULATIONS
Zharkova, V. V. & Khabarova, O. V. (2012)
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/1...X/752/1/35/pdf



My bolding.

Now, what could they possibly mean by that? I think they mean what you have been told all along, and don't seem to be able to grasp. Then again, who can blame you, when the high priests you follow, who sell you this nonsense, can't understand it themselves?

That is why engineers should stick to engineering. Scott's nonsense reminds one of the Salem Hypothesis.



My bolding.

Oh no, jonesdave116 there could be electrons going the other way that are hidden inside the Ions going out!!! (apparent assertion 1)

Oops, but them electrons go out as well.

Wait, it could be an AC powered electric sun instead of DC. Charges just oscillate back and forth (apparent assertion 2, a couple of posts back)!!!

While this is far better and solves the problem of charging the sun. First it wasn't directly stated and I only inferred it from what was posted. Second it still doesn't match observational evidence as them nasty old ions would have to oscillate back and forth as well.

Still, the direct assertion of "Electrons carry the bulk of the current" is the most ridiculous (which was the reason for the inference of apparent assertion 2) and again shows a fixation on wires. Where positive ions are bound in a crystallin structure and electrons are modeled as an oscillating gas that "carry the bulk of the current". Don't work in plasma, where both are in a gaseous state. Yes, plasma is a gaseous state of matter (hot and cold). The very thing extoled, plasma, precludes such singular charged particle carriers of power (energy over time). In AC , basically RMS transferrer of power, as in a household AC circuit. Which of course still requires a loop to the energy source. Never identified and falls to the same problem stated, of electrons entering the heliopause which would now be both ions and electrons going back and forth through it.

Oh, but they just duck under for a moment or two. Inside the ions or wherever hasn't been directly measured yet. Heck, no wonder they went into the EU. They don't appear to be good Electricians let alone Electrical Engineers. Gots to make money somehow.

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by tusenfem

So just to make the discussion even muddier, you come up with something you found on the web, which deals with flows on the surface of the Sun, either away from a penumbra or in fewer cases towards the penumbra.

We will ignore this, thank you very much.

and on Saturn

Magnetic field characters of returning flux tubes in Saturn's magnetosphere

The return current!

[Sol88]

yup tuck and roll..

Quote:

We found that electron-dominated CSs in which electrons become the main carriers of the electric current and contributors to energy dissipation may form inside or nearby ion-dominated CSs.

Like Scott said...

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by tusenfem

So just to make the discussion even muddier, you come up with something you found on the web, which deals with flows on the surface of the Sun, either away from a penumbra or in fewer cases towards the penumbra.

We will ignore this, thank you very much.

Thought so...

Not just found on the surface of the sun are they now!

Seen your name pop up.