[Merged] Alec Baldwin fatally shoots crewmember on set of movie with prop gun - Page 2

Armitage72 · 22nd October 2021, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Bikewer

Well done, it looks and sounds good. Poorly done, it’s really unrealistic… You see this a lot on TV shows where they’re obviously pressed for time and money. Several episodes of the “Walker” TV series were particularly bad in this regard… The “muzzle flashes” weren’t even properly aligned with the weapon.

I'm sure it was intentional, but I remember a shootout in one of the "Naked Gun" movies in which the muzzle flashes (and possibly the sounds of the shots) happened about a half second after each trigger pull.

JoeMorgue · 22nd October 2021, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

So was there one shot or two?

Very few details but given what we know any more than one shot seems unlikely.

We also have no details on what type of injury the Director suffered, could be anything from another gunshot wound (unlikely) to powder burns or hearing damage.

Dumb All Over · 22nd October 2021, 07:43 AM

First law of gun safety: Never point a gun at anyone unless you intend to shoot them.

Captain_Swoop · 22nd October 2021, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by Monza

They make adapters for guns that use a CO2 cartridge to recycle the gun. It is used for dry firing practice at home. I think the technology is here to make realistic prop guns that recoil and recycle without ever having to use blanks on a set. As people here have pointed out, blanks can be deadly. I can see some new laws in the filming industry coming out after this tragedy.

Gas operated Airsoft pistols cycle, look like and are weighted like the real thing.

JoeMorgue · 22nd October 2021, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Dumb All Over

First law of gun safety: Never point a gun at anyone unless you intend to shoot them.

The weird thing for me (again pending details) is that it wasn't another ACTOR that got shot so it's not like pointing the gun at the other person was some sort of requirement because it was needed for the scene.

Dumb All Over · 22nd October 2021, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

The weird thing for me (again pending details) is that it wasn't another ACTOR that got shot so it's not like pointing the gun at the other person was some sort of requirement because it was needed for the scene.

Yes, indeed. That struck me as a little strange, too.

lobosrul5 · 22nd October 2021, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

The weird thing for me (again pending details) is that it wasn't another ACTOR that got shot so it's not like pointing the gun at the other person was some sort of requirement because it was needed for the scene.

He was probably shooting at the camera, and probably as instructed. I'm conjecturing but that's usually where the director and dp are.

Dumb All Over · 22nd October 2021, 07:55 AM

Maybe Alec Baldwin graduated from the Dick Cheney School of Firearm Safety.

Ziggurat · 22nd October 2021, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Dumb All Over

Maybe Alec Baldwin graduated from the Dick Cheney School of Firearm Safety.

Hell no.

Graduates of that prestigious school have their targets apologize for getting shot.

SuburbanTurkey · 22nd October 2021, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Hell no.

Graduates of that prestigious school have their targets apologize for getting shot.

The director is still alive, it's not too late.

Thermal · 22nd October 2021, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

He was probably shooting at the camera, and probably as instructed. I'm conjecturing but that's usually where the director and dp are.

Not to read too heavily into the reporting, but no one is reporting that Baldwin did anything but was the one who discharged the gun. He could have just as well been carelessly handling it or dropped it or whatever.

I Am The Scum · 22nd October 2021, 08:06 AM

Given that this film is a Western, the firearm was likely not an auto-loader.

JoeMorgue · 22nd October 2021, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by I Am The Scum

Given that this film is a Western, the firearm was likely not an auto-loader.

Yeah we're looking at a prop revolver, odds are a mockup of some sort of a Colt .45 Peacemaker the only gun that ever existed in the West according to Hollywood.

Dumb All Over · 22nd October 2021, 08:09 AM

Overheard during booking at the Sheriff's office - "Mr. Baldwin, we're ready for your close-ups."

Ziggurat · 22nd October 2021, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

The director is still alive, it's not too late.

Good point, but I suspect that won't be happening.

SuburbanTurkey · 22nd October 2021, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Yeah we're looking at a prop revolver, odds are a mockup of some sort of a Colt .45 Peacemaker the only gun that ever existed in the West according to Hollywood.

Ironic considering non-firing prop revolvers would probably be among the easiest to use and just add flash in post. Just make a prop gun with moving cylinder and hammer and you've got everything but the bang with no safety issue. No ejecting brass, no slide or bolt moving on each shot, nothing.

ETA: Unless they were wanting big plumes of black powder smoke.

crescent · 22nd October 2021, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Flip side of that is movies like "heat" with the iconic heist shootout scene featuring rifles with insanely huge muzzle flash. I could see why a director or whatever would want the real thing.

Ironically a little article about Heat popped up on my social media feed just yesterday. It claimed that they used blanks, but with a full powder charge in each round (at least for the iconic shootout scene on the street). The claim was that they then went in to dub the sound but eventually just kept the sound from the original recording because nothing else captured just how loud the guns were, or the reverberations coming off all the surrounding buildings.

plague311 · 22nd October 2021, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by Dumb All Over

Overheard during booking at the Sheriff's office - "Mr. Baldwin, we're ready for your close-ups."

You seem to be really adamant that Alec get arrested, why is that?

No matter what Alec did there was not supposed to be live ammunition in the gun. This is on whoever prepped that gun, full stop, imo.

SuburbanTurkey · 22nd October 2021, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

No matter what Alec did there was not supposed to be live ammunition in the gun. This is on whoever prepped that gun, full stop, imo.

Far to early to say that. It's unclear exactly what the nature of the failure was.

The prop gun could have functioned exactly as it was intended to for all we know. It's possible the scene was not properly set up to be safe, or that careless handling is the culprit.

A lot of things could have gone wrong.

plague311 · 22nd October 2021, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Far to early to say that. It's unclear exactly what the nature of the failure was.

The prop gun could have functioned exactly as it was intended to for all we know. It's possible the scene was not properly set up to be safe, or that careless handling is the culprit.

A lot of things could have gone wrong.

My point being, none of that is on Alec.

Aside from that, Joel Souza has been released from the hospital. That's good news for his friends and family.

TragicMonkey · 22nd October 2021, 08:39 AM

Is this going to be like that one episode of every detective show where the murderer swapped out the prop weapon for a real one? Everybody from Miss Fisher to Inspector Barnaby did that one.

Dumb All Over · 22nd October 2021, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

The prop gun could have functioned exactly as it was intended to for all we know. It's possible the scene was not properly set up to be safe, or that careless handling is the culprit.

Or it could be premeditated MURDER!

JayUtah · 22nd October 2021, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

I heard a rumor that the production didn’t use union crews

The relevant unions are on strike right now, so there's a good chance it was a non-union armorer.

Originally Posted by Dumb All Over

First law of gun safety: Never point a gun at anyone unless you intend to shoot them.

This. And only this. I've used prop firearms on stage, where post-production isn't an option. You don't point it at anything you don't want a projectile to hit. Ever. Even if you have every reason to believe there's no projectile. The armorer hands you the prop just as you're about to go onstage, and he takes it from you as soon as you exit. Even if you're going to "shoot" another actor, you don't point the weapon directly at him to discharge it. You follow the combat director's and armorer's instructions to the letter. If you don't, that's the last time you'll ever set foot on our stage. If something goes wrong -- someone doesn't hit their mark or something is in your way -- you don't fire the weapon and you improvise around it.

I know the details are still unknown. But there is no legitimate reason for a live round to be on a film set. Ever.

SuburbanTurkey · 22nd October 2021, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

My point being, none of that is on Alec.

Aside from that, Joel Souza has been released from the hospital. That's good news for his friends and family.

It could conceivably be his fault if he did something reckless, like pointing a blank firing gun at someone at close range and firing it.

plague311 · 22nd October 2021, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

This. And only this. I've used prop firearms on stage, where post-production isn't an option. You don't point it at anything you don't want a projectile to hit. Ever. Even if you have every reason to believe there's no projectile. The armorer hands you the prop just as you're about to go onstage, and he takes it from you as soon as you exit. Even if you're going to "shoot" another actor, you don't point the weapon directly at him to discharge it. You follow the combat director's and armorer's instructions to the letter. If you don't, that's the last time you'll ever set foot on our stage. If something goes wrong -- someone doesn't hit their mark or something is in your way -- you don't fire the weapon and you improvise around it.

I know the details are still unknown. But there is no legitimate reason for a live round to be on a film set. Ever.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

It could conceivably be his fault if he did something reckless, like pointing a blank firing gun at someone at close range and firing it.

It's a western show, and my best guess is he was doing literally what the shot in that show was calling for and what he was being directed to do. How many movies, shows, etc. have a gun pointed at the camera? The line, "You never point a gun at something you don't want to kill" isn't always the way the real world works. No one wanted this to happen, ******* NO ONE wanted this to happen. That a director and a DoP were standing behind a camera, directing the scene and the gun went off\was fired, injuring both, is not that far out of the realm of thought. Chastise as you like, and I'm open to being wrong, but I'd be shocked if this is anyone's fault but the armorer\prop master.

JoeMorgue · 22nd October 2021, 08:46 AM

//Again pending details, early reporting of a fluid story, right retained to adjust opinion later, all that dutifully acknowledged//

You're an actor. If the gun safety guy says the gun is safe... you kind of have to go on his word, if that was the scenario.

SuburbanTurkey · 22nd October 2021, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

//Again pending details, early reporting of a fluid story, right retained to adjust opinion later, all that dutifully acknowledged//

You're an actor. If the gun safety guy says the gun is safe... you can of have to go on his word, if that was the scenario.

Assuming everyone followed instructions like good boys and girls.

People are dumb enough when it comes to live firearms, I can't imagine how stupid people are willing to act with something they think is safe.

The case of Jon-Erik Hexum is one where much of the blame can be placed on the guy who put a loaded blank gun to his own head and pulled the trigger out of boredom.

Dumb All Over · 22nd October 2021, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

No one wanted this to happen, ******* NO ONE wanted this to happen.

...except the MURDERER!

Captain_Swoop · 22nd October 2021, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Yeah we're looking at a prop revolver, odds are a mockup of some sort of a Colt .45 Peacemaker the only gun that ever existed in the West according to Hollywood.

Unless it's a Clint Eastwood movie

commandlinegamer · 22nd October 2021, 08:50 AM

Given the ridiculous noises* guns make when seen on screen, the only reason I can see for having any sort of active weapon filmed is to show muzzle flash and recoil action.

* - Impossible ricochets, etc.

lobosrul5 · 22nd October 2021, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by Thermal

Not to read too heavily into the reporting, but no one is reporting that Baldwin did anything but was the one who discharged the gun. He could have just as well been carelessly handling it or dropped it or whatever.

If it discharged by being dropped it was a very old revolver or a very poor design, or not assembled correctly. And then, the odds of a blank killing someone from a dropped gun are super remote. It's the overpressure that can be fatal from a blank. If he went up to someone with the barrel against their head TWICE, I think SF county deputies would have him in custody by now.

Dumb All Over · 22nd October 2021, 08:58 AM

I'm now thinking this is a rare case of assisted suicide by the conspiratorial actions of a Director of Photography and an Assistant Props Manager.

SuburbanTurkey · 22nd October 2021, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

If it discharged by being dropped it was a very old revolver or a very poor design, or not assembled correctly. And then, the odds of a blank killing someone from a dropped gun are super remote. It's the overpressure that can be fatal from a blank. If he went up to someone with the barrel against their head TWICE, I think SF county deputies would have him in custody by now.

I am a bit lost on how two people could have been so grievously wounded. The reporting implies it was a single shot.

Perhaps a barrel obstruction of some sort caused a catastrophic failure? Maybe the pistol caused something close by to burst and send fragments flying?

Two people injured so badly makes me think that something sent fragments of material flying.

JoeMorgue · 22nd October 2021, 09:03 AM

Baldwin has issued a statement.

Quote:

"There are no words to convey my shock and sadness regarding the tragic accident that took the life of Halyna Hutchins, a wife, mother and deeply admired colleague of ours. I'm fully cooperating with the police investigation to address how this tragedy occurred and I am in touch with her husband, offering my support to him and his family. My heart is broken for her husband, their son, and all who knew and loved Halyna."

JoeMorgue · 22nd October 2021, 09:04 AM

Also while details are still vague it does now seem that the incident occurred "while a scene was being filmed" as opposed to onset downtime or something of that nature.

Thermal · 22nd October 2021, 09:06 AM

The words "sorry I shot and killed her" are conspicuously absent

Sherkeu · 22nd October 2021, 09:07 AM

Alec tweets ~30 min ago:

Quote:

1-
There are no words to convey my shock and sadness regarding the tragic accident that took the life of Halyna Hutchins, a wife, mother and deeply admired colleague of ours. I'm fully cooperating with the police investigation to address how this tragedy occurred and

2- I am in touch with her husband, offering my support to him and his family. My heart is broken for her husband, their son, and all who knew and loved Halyna.

https://twitter.com/AlecBaldwin/stat...72461787439106

eta: ninja'd

SuburbanTurkey · 22nd October 2021, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by Thermal

The words "sorry I shot and killed her" are conspicuously absent

For all we know it was 100% not his fault. Hell, the director and DP are probably more responsible for how scenes are shot, including the use of props, than any actor.

Dude's gonna be pretty traumatized I suspect, even if nobody blames him for it. A front row seat to someone's violent death is probably not very fun.

JoeMorgue · 22nd October 2021, 09:08 AM

He's also probably legally savvy enough to not offhandedly confess to something.

Warp12 · 22nd October 2021, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Thermal

The words "sorry I shot and killed her" are conspicuously absent

When is a person to blame? It is always the gun.

22nd October 2021, 07:38 AM	#42
JoeMorgue Suspended Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 42,380	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza So was there one shot or two? Very few details but given what we know any more than one shot seems unlikely. We also have no details on what type of injury the Director suffered, could be anything from another gunshot wound (unlikely) to powder burns or hearing damage.
	Last edited by JoeMorgue; 22nd October 2021 at 07:51 AM.

22nd October 2021, 07:43 AM	#43
Dumb All Over A Little Ugly on the Side Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: They call it the Earth (which is a dumb kinda name) Posts: 6,840	First law of gun safety: Never point a gun at anyone unless you intend to shoot them.
	__________________ The Three Word Story Pledge of Allegiance- "I Hereby swear upon Engelbert's grave that I will gallop, not stride run, not walk posting three words on Shemp's honor, honoring: bananas, dwarfs, clarinets, [the 7th naughty forum word], haggis, Batman, nuns, wombats until such time as I'm sober. Or dead." "Some people have a way with words, other people...Um...Oh...Uh, not have way." -Steve Martin

22nd October 2021, 07:47 AM	#45
JoeMorgue Suspended Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 42,380	Originally Posted by Dumb All Over First law of gun safety: Never point a gun at anyone unless you intend to shoot them. The weird thing for me (again pending details) is that it wasn't another ACTOR that got shot so it's not like pointing the gun at the other person was some sort of requirement because it was needed for the scene.
	Last edited by JoeMorgue; 22nd October 2021 at 07:48 AM.

22nd October 2021, 07:51 AM	#46
Dumb All Over A Little Ugly on the Side Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: They call it the Earth (which is a dumb kinda name) Posts: 6,840	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue The weird thing for me (again pending details) is that it wasn't another ACTOR that got shot so it's not like pointing the gun at the other person was some sort of requirement because it was needed for the scene. Yes, indeed. That struck me as a little strange, too.
	__________________ The Three Word Story Pledge of Allegiance- "I Hereby swear upon Engelbert's grave that I will gallop, not stride run, not walk posting three words on Shemp's honor, honoring: bananas, dwarfs, clarinets, [the 7th naughty forum word], haggis, Batman, nuns, wombats until such time as I'm sober. Or dead." "Some people have a way with words, other people...Um...Oh...Uh, not have way." -Steve Martin

22nd October 2021, 07:52 AM	#47
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,126	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue The weird thing for me (again pending details) is that it wasn't another ACTOR that got shot so it's not like pointing the gun at the other person was some sort of requirement because it was needed for the scene. He was probably shooting at the camera, and probably as instructed. I'm conjecturing but that's usually where the director and dp are.
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,126

22nd October 2021, 07:35 AM	#41
Armitage72 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 7,554	Originally Posted by Bikewer Well done, it looks and sounds good. Poorly done, it’s really unrealistic… You see this a lot on TV shows where they’re obviously pressed for time and money. Several episodes of the “Walker” TV series were particularly bad in this regard… The “muzzle flashes” weren’t even properly aligned with the weapon. I'm sure it was intentional, but I remember a shootout in one of the "Naked Gun" movies in which the muzzle flashes (and possibly the sounds of the shots) happened about a half second after each trigger pull.

22nd October 2021, 07:45 AM	#44
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 43,373	Originally Posted by Monza They make adapters for guns that use a CO2 cartridge to recycle the gun. It is used for dry firing practice at home. I think the technology is here to make realistic prop guns that recoil and recycle without ever having to use blanks on a set. As people here have pointed out, blanks can be deadly. I can see some new laws in the filming industry coming out after this tragedy. Gas operated Airsoft pistols cycle, look like and are weighted like the real thing.

22nd October 2021, 07:55 AM	#48
Dumb All Over A Little Ugly on the Side Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: They call it the Earth (which is a dumb kinda name) Posts: 6,840	Maybe Alec Baldwin graduated from the Dick Cheney School of Firearm Safety.
	__________________ The Three Word Story Pledge of Allegiance- "I Hereby swear upon Engelbert's grave that I will gallop, not stride run, not walk posting three words on Shemp's honor, honoring: bananas, dwarfs, clarinets, [the 7th naughty forum word], haggis, Batman, nuns, wombats until such time as I'm sober. Or dead." "Some people have a way with words, other people...Um...Oh...Uh, not have way." -Steve Martin

22nd October 2021, 08:00 AM	#49
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 53,001	Originally Posted by Dumb All Over Maybe Alec Baldwin graduated from the Dick Cheney School of Firearm Safety. Hell no. Graduates of that prestigious school have their targets apologize for getting shot.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

22nd October 2021, 08:04 AM	#50
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Hell no. Graduates of that prestigious school have their targets apologize for getting shot. The director is still alive, it's not too late.

22nd October 2021, 08:05 AM	#51
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: In the Troll Ignoring Section Posts: 21,164	Originally Posted by lobosrul5 He was probably shooting at the camera, and probably as instructed. I'm conjecturing but that's usually where the director and dp are. Not to read too heavily into the reporting, but no one is reporting that Baldwin did anything but was the one who discharged the gun. He could have just as well been carelessly handling it or dropped it or whatever.
	__________________ "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet

22nd October 2021, 08:06 AM	#52
I Am The Scum Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 4,971	Given that this film is a Western, the firearm was likely not an auto-loader.

22nd October 2021, 08:08 AM	#53
JoeMorgue Suspended Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 42,380	Originally Posted by I Am The Scum Given that this film is a Western, the firearm was likely not an auto-loader. Yeah we're looking at a prop revolver, odds are a mockup of some sort of a Colt .45 Peacemaker the only gun that ever existed in the West according to Hollywood.

22nd October 2021, 08:09 AM	#54
Dumb All Over A Little Ugly on the Side Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: They call it the Earth (which is a dumb kinda name) Posts: 6,840	Overheard during booking at the Sheriff's office - "Mr. Baldwin, we're ready for your close-ups."
	__________________ The Three Word Story Pledge of Allegiance- "I Hereby swear upon Engelbert's grave that I will gallop, not stride run, not walk posting three words on Shemp's honor, honoring: bananas, dwarfs, clarinets, [the 7th naughty forum word], haggis, Batman, nuns, wombats until such time as I'm sober. Or dead." "Some people have a way with words, other people...Um...Oh...Uh, not have way." -Steve Martin

22nd October 2021, 08:12 AM	#55
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 53,001	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey The director is still alive, it's not too late. Good point, but I suspect that won't be happening.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

22nd October 2021, 08:13 AM	#56
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Yeah we're looking at a prop revolver, odds are a mockup of some sort of a Colt .45 Peacemaker the only gun that ever existed in the West according to Hollywood. Ironic considering non-firing prop revolvers would probably be among the easiest to use and just add flash in post. Just make a prop gun with moving cylinder and hammer and you've got everything but the bang with no safety issue. No ejecting brass, no slide or bolt moving on each shot, nothing. ETA: Unless they were wanting big plumes of black powder smoke.
	Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 22nd October 2021 at 08:16 AM.

22nd October 2021, 08:30 AM	#57
crescent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,286	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Flip side of that is movies like "heat" with the iconic heist shootout scene featuring rifles with insanely huge muzzle flash. I could see why a director or whatever would want the real thing. Ironically a little article about Heat popped up on my social media feed just yesterday. It claimed that they used blanks, but with a full powder charge in each round (at least for the iconic shootout scene on the street). The claim was that they then went in to dub the sound but eventually just kept the sound from the original recording because nothing else captured just how loud the guns were, or the reverberations coming off all the surrounding buildings.

22nd October 2021, 08:32 AM	#58
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 13,707	Originally Posted by Dumb All Over Overheard during booking at the Sheriff's office - "Mr. Baldwin, we're ready for your close-ups." You seem to be really adamant that Alec get arrested, why is that? No matter what Alec did there was not supposed to be live ammunition in the gun. This is on whoever prepped that gun, full stop, imo.
	__________________ “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

22nd October 2021, 08:35 AM	#59
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Originally Posted by plague311 No matter what Alec did there was not supposed to be live ammunition in the gun. This is on whoever prepped that gun, full stop, imo. Far to early to say that. It's unclear exactly what the nature of the failure was. The prop gun could have functioned exactly as it was intended to for all we know. It's possible the scene was not properly set up to be safe, or that careless handling is the culprit. A lot of things could have gone wrong.

22nd October 2021, 08:36 AM	#60
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 13,707	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Far to early to say that. It's unclear exactly what the nature of the failure was. The prop gun could have functioned exactly as it was intended to for all we know. It's possible the scene was not properly set up to be safe, or that careless handling is the culprit. A lot of things could have gone wrong. My point being, none of that is on Alec. Aside from that, Joel Souza has been released from the hospital. That's good news for his friends and family.
	__________________ “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

22nd October 2021, 08:39 AM	#61
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 64,839	Is this going to be like that one episode of every detective show where the murderer swapped out the prop weapon for a real one? Everybody from Miss Fisher to Inspector Barnaby did that one.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

22nd October 2021, 08:41 AM	#62
Dumb All Over A Little Ugly on the Side Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: They call it the Earth (which is a dumb kinda name) Posts: 6,840	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey The prop gun could have functioned exactly as it was intended to for all we know. It's possible the scene was not properly set up to be safe, or that careless handling is the culprit. Or it could be premeditated MURDER!
	__________________ The Three Word Story Pledge of Allegiance- "I Hereby swear upon Engelbert's grave that I will gallop, not stride run, not walk posting three words on Shemp's honor, honoring: bananas, dwarfs, clarinets, [the 7th naughty forum word], haggis, Batman, nuns, wombats until such time as I'm sober. Or dead." "Some people have a way with words, other people...Um...Oh...Uh, not have way." -Steve Martin

22nd October 2021, 08:41 AM	#63
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 22,247	Originally Posted by Puppycow I heard a rumor that the production didn’t use union crews The relevant unions are on strike right now, so there's a good chance it was a non-union armorer. Originally Posted by Dumb All Over First law of gun safety: Never point a gun at anyone unless you intend to shoot them. This. And only this. I've used prop firearms on stage, where post-production isn't an option. You don't point it at anything you don't want a projectile to hit. Ever. Even if you have every reason to believe there's no projectile. The armorer hands you the prop just as you're about to go onstage, and he takes it from you as soon as you exit. Even if you're going to "shoot" another actor, you don't point the weapon directly at him to discharge it. You follow the combat director's and armorer's instructions to the letter. If you don't, that's the last time you'll ever set foot on our stage. If something goes wrong -- someone doesn't hit their mark or something is in your way -- you don't fire the weapon and you improvise around it. I know the details are still unknown. But there is no legitimate reason for a live round to be on a film set. Ever.

22nd October 2021, 08:41 AM	#64
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Originally Posted by plague311 My point being, none of that is on Alec. Aside from that, Joel Souza has been released from the hospital. That's good news for his friends and family. It could conceivably be his fault if he did something reckless, like pointing a blank firing gun at someone at close range and firing it.

22nd October 2021, 08:46 AM	#65
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 13,707	Originally Posted by JayUtah This. And only this. I've used prop firearms on stage, where post-production isn't an option. You don't point it at anything you don't want a projectile to hit. Ever. Even if you have every reason to believe there's no projectile. The armorer hands you the prop just as you're about to go onstage, and he takes it from you as soon as you exit. Even if you're going to "shoot" another actor, you don't point the weapon directly at him to discharge it. You follow the combat director's and armorer's instructions to the letter. If you don't, that's the last time you'll ever set foot on our stage. If something goes wrong -- someone doesn't hit their mark or something is in your way -- you don't fire the weapon and you improvise around it. I know the details are still unknown. But there is no legitimate reason for a live round to be on a film set. Ever. Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey It could conceivably be his fault if he did something reckless, like pointing a blank firing gun at someone at close range and firing it. It's a western show, and my best guess is he was doing literally what the shot in that show was calling for and what he was being directed to do. How many movies, shows, etc. have a gun pointed at the camera? The line, "You never point a gun at something you don't want to kill" isn't always the way the real world works. No one wanted this to happen, ******* NO ONE wanted this to happen. That a director and a DoP were standing behind a camera, directing the scene and the gun went off\was fired, injuring both, is not that far out of the realm of thought. Chastise as you like, and I'm open to being wrong, but I'd be shocked if this is anyone's fault but the armorer\prop master.
	__________________ “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

22nd October 2021, 08:49 AM	#67
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue //Again pending details, early reporting of a fluid story, right retained to adjust opinion later, all that dutifully acknowledged// You're an actor. If the gun safety guy says the gun is safe... you can of have to go on his word, if that was the scenario. Assuming everyone followed instructions like good boys and girls. People are dumb enough when it comes to live firearms, I can't imagine how stupid people are willing to act with something they think is safe. The case of Jon-Erik Hexum is one where much of the blame can be placed on the guy who put a loaded blank gun to his own head and pulled the trigger out of boredom.
	Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 22nd October 2021 at 08:51 AM.

22nd October 2021, 08:50 AM	#68
Dumb All Over A Little Ugly on the Side Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: They call it the Earth (which is a dumb kinda name) Posts: 6,840	Originally Posted by plague311 No one wanted this to happen, ******* NO ONE wanted this to happen. ...except the MURDERER!
	__________________ The Three Word Story Pledge of Allegiance- "I Hereby swear upon Engelbert's grave that I will gallop, not stride run, not walk posting three words on Shemp's honor, honoring: bananas, dwarfs, clarinets, [the 7th naughty forum word], haggis, Batman, nuns, wombats until such time as I'm sober. Or dead." "Some people have a way with words, other people...Um...Oh...Uh, not have way." -Steve Martin

22nd October 2021, 08:50 AM	#70
commandlinegamer Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Mazes of Menace Posts: 9,277	Given the ridiculous noises* guns make when seen on screen, the only reason I can see for having any sort of active weapon filmed is to show muzzle flash and recoil action. * - Impossible ricochets, etc.
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22nd October 2021, 08:54 AM	#71
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,126	Originally Posted by Thermal Not to read too heavily into the reporting, but no one is reporting that Baldwin did anything but was the one who discharged the gun. He could have just as well been carelessly handling it or dropped it or whatever. If it discharged by being dropped it was a very old revolver or a very poor design, or not assembled correctly. And then, the odds of a blank killing someone from a dropped gun are super remote. It's the overpressure that can be fatal from a blank. If he went up to someone with the barrel against their head TWICE, I think SF county deputies would have him in custody by now.
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,126

22nd October 2021, 08:58 AM	#72
Dumb All Over A Little Ugly on the Side Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: They call it the Earth (which is a dumb kinda name) Posts: 6,840	I'm now thinking this is a rare case of assisted suicide by the conspiratorial actions of a Director of Photography and an Assistant Props Manager.
	__________________ The Three Word Story Pledge of Allegiance- "I Hereby swear upon Engelbert's grave that I will gallop, not stride run, not walk posting three words on Shemp's honor, honoring: bananas, dwarfs, clarinets, [the 7th naughty forum word], haggis, Batman, nuns, wombats until such time as I'm sober. Or dead." "Some people have a way with words, other people...Um...Oh...Uh, not have way." -Steve Martin Last edited by Dumb All Over; 22nd October 2021 at 09:00 AM.

22nd October 2021, 08:58 AM	#73
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Originally Posted by lobosrul5 If it discharged by being dropped it was a very old revolver or a very poor design, or not assembled correctly. And then, the odds of a blank killing someone from a dropped gun are super remote. It's the overpressure that can be fatal from a blank. If he went up to someone with the barrel against their head TWICE, I think SF county deputies would have him in custody by now. I am a bit lost on how two people could have been so grievously wounded. The reporting implies it was a single shot. Perhaps a barrel obstruction of some sort caused a catastrophic failure? Maybe the pistol caused something close by to burst and send fragments flying? Two people injured so badly makes me think that something sent fragments of material flying.

22nd October 2021, 09:03 AM	#74
JoeMorgue Suspended Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 42,380	Baldwin has issued a statement. Quote: "There are no words to convey my shock and sadness regarding the tragic accident that took the life of Halyna Hutchins, a wife, mother and deeply admired colleague of ours. I'm fully cooperating with the police investigation to address how this tragedy occurred and I am in touch with her husband, offering my support to him and his family. My heart is broken for her husband, their son, and all who knew and loved Halyna."

22nd October 2021, 09:04 AM	#75
JoeMorgue Suspended Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 42,380	Also while details are still vague it does now seem that the incident occurred "while a scene was being filmed" as opposed to onset downtime or something of that nature.

22nd October 2021, 09:06 AM	#76
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: In the Troll Ignoring Section Posts: 21,164	The words "sorry I shot and killed her" are conspicuously absent
	__________________ "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet

22nd October 2021, 09:07 AM	#77
Sherkeu Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Disneyland Posts: 2,754	Alec tweets ~30 min ago: Quote: 1- There are no words to convey my shock and sadness regarding the tragic accident that took the life of Halyna Hutchins, a wife, mother and deeply admired colleague of ours. I'm fully cooperating with the police investigation to address how this tragedy occurred and 2- I am in touch with her husband, offering my support to him and his family. My heart is broken for her husband, their son, and all who knew and loved Halyna. https://twitter.com/AlecBaldwin/stat...72461787439106 eta: ninja'd