Continuation Today's Mass Shooting (2)

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Warp12

I was responding to a political rant about Republicans. And yes, it happens every time a mass shooting occurs. I'm pretty sure nobody broached politics until that gem was posted. I'm sure we'll get to hear plenty more from the politicians.

So, here's the thing.


When something really bad happens, people want to do something about it.


In a democracy, the way we do something about things is to elect people who will do something about things.

Stacy et. al. didn't think to themselves, "Aha! We can use this against our Republican enemies!" We just think that it's about damned time to do something about this, and we think arming teachers is mighty darned stupid! Not just a little stupid, mind you, but dumb as hell. So dumb that anyone who thinks it's a good idea cannot have applied any thought at all to the issue, but is just repeating a dumbass talking point.

And if someone happens to mention who those people are that are preventing people from doing anything about it, that isn't "politics". It's an expression of opinion about what the problem is and who is causing it.


And yes, the gun culture is a huge aspect of the problem. The presence of guns makes people think about using guns. This isn't hard. The existence of a device makes people imagine using that device. I believe the term is "ideation", although maybe pyschologists use some other term. Whatever term they use, it's a real phenomenon. If it were more difficult to buy guns, or to carry guns, or to possess guns, people wouldn't think about guns as much, and they wouldn't use guns as much.

I think it's a safe bet that mental illness was involved in this shooting. That's going to cause some people to say, "The problem isn't guns. It's mental illness." People will say that, but it will be stupid. Things like this don't have one, single, cause.

Would tighter gun control have stopped this particular shooting? Maybe not. It's hard to say. It's also hard to say if the lung cancer that killed that particular smoker was caused by smoking, but everyone knows that smoking causes lung cancer. Similarly, the ease of gun acquisition causes this sort of shooting, and that other kind of shooting that Bogative goes on about.

I kind of appreciate Bogative's comments in this thread. The racism is a bit tedious, but to me, I look first at whether or not someone is correct, and then whether or not their motives are pure. He's right. There's killings and killings and killings every damned day in America, and it's a real problem, every damned day.

So, let's do whatever it takes to reduce them. If I had the power, I would start by taking away guns that fire lots and lots of bullets very quickly. That way sick individuals would not fantasize about firing lots and lots of bullets very quickly. However, I don't have the power. I just have one vote, so I'll vote against dumbasses who say our gun laws aren't contributing to our murder rates. Can you tell me who those dumbasses are? I'll vote against them, regardless of which party they are in.

There might be some other things I would do, too, that leftists wouldn't be so keen on. Whatever. I don't care what they think, either.

[stanfr]

It would not matter if 200 or 2000 were killed. nothing would change,

I'm at the point where I think we should just divide up the country, build a wall and then let one side blow each other away to their heart's content.

[portlandatheist]

Originally Posted by shemp

Stop posting their ******* names and faces! They should undergo Damnatio memoriae.

This. Can't be said enough.
https://nonotoriety.com/

Quote:

No Name. No Photo. No Notoriety.
IT’S A MATTER OF PUBLIC SAFETYNoNotoriety.com

The quest for notoriety and infamy is a well known motivating factor in rampage mass killings and violent copycat crimes. In an effort to reduce future tragedies, we CHALLENGE THE MEDIA – calling for RESPONSIBLE MEDIA COVERAGE FOR THE SAKE OF PUBLIC SAFETY when reporting on individuals who commit or attempt acts of rampage mass violence thereby depriving violent like minded individuals the media celebrity and media spotlight they so crave.

If people want names and faces, they can easily find it but any respectable news outlet should always be more responsible.

[Delphic Oracle]

Biden addressing the nation beginning now.

[Rolfe]

We'll be seeing names and faces soon enough. Of the victims.

I remember being at a residential music weekend in Dunblane. A group of us were in the dining room having dinner, and there was a very sweet embroidery picture on the wall. It was a group of small children in a school playground, watched benignly by a woman teacher standing in the doorway. Then someone suddenly said, "there are sixteen children" and we all realised what the picture was about. It must have been fifteen years after the event but I found myself starting to cry.

If we ever stop thinking about the victims and mourning their loss, the shooters win.

[BobTheCoward]

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

Biden addressing the nation beginning now.

Why? Saying there ought to be a law is just like thoughts and prayers.

[Delphic Oracle]

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

Biden addressing the nation beginning now.

And that was some of the flatest, mealy-mouthed, cliche'-drenched nonsense I have ever heard come from a politician.

Thoughts and prayers...

We should do something...

Anyways, later y'all.

Complete faceplant.

[shemp]

..

[Delphic Oracle]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Is America the only place that calls Elementary Schools 'targets'?

If we do, it would be a rare instance of us being honest with ourselves.

[Checkmite]

Texas DPS said the shooter crashed his pickup truck - looks like a late-model four-door F150 or something along those lines - in a drainage canal adjacent to the school, and was then seen entering the school "with a long rifle and a backpack". He was wearing body armor. I wonder what kind of rifle it was.

[Warp12]

Quote:

A Border Patrol agent who was working nearby when the shooting began rushed into the school without waiting for backup and shot and killed the gunman, who was behind a barricade, according to a law enforcement official speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk about it.

This guy sounds like a hero.

[Dr.Sid]

Originally Posted by Checkmite

Texas DPS said the shooter crashed his pickup truck - looks like a late-model four-door F150 or something along those lines - in a drainage canal adjacent to the school, and was then seen entering the school "with a long rifle and a backpack". He was wearing body armor. I wonder what kind of rifle it was.

Well given the previous data, AR15 is quite a safe bet. Not that that's actually important.
Btw. is there someone even from democrats actually pushing for some change to 2nd amendment ? Also, is it even needed ?
It's quite vague .. like it doesn't say anything about perps for example, and they are denied their 'right'. There is nothing about children either. So why not license or registration ?

[Captain_Swoop]

Originally Posted by Checkmite

Texas DPS said the shooter crashed his pickup truck - looks like a late-model four-door F150 or something along those lines - in a drainage canal adjacent to the school, and was then seen entering the school "with a long rifle and a backpack". He was wearing body armor. I wonder what kind of rifle it was.

Why does it matter what kind of rifle it was?

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

And that was some of the flatest, mealy-mouthed, cliche'-drenched nonsense I have ever heard come from a politician.

Thoughts and prayers...

We should do something...

Anyways, later y'all.

Complete faceplant.

Yeah, this is just some of the "flatest, mealy-mouthed, cliche'-drenched nonsense" ever heard from a politician:

"I am sick and tired of it. We have to act and don't tell me we can't have an impact on this carnage," he said, referring to the recent mass shootings in Texas and Buffalo. "What in God's name do you need an assault rifle for except to kill someone? Deer aren't running through the forest with Kevlar vests on, for God's sake. It's just sick."
"Why are we willing to live with this carnage? Where in God's name is our backbone?"
"For God's sake, we have to have the courage to stand up to the industry. Here's what else I know. Most Americans support common sense laws common sense gun laws."
"We have to make it clear to every elected official in this country, it's time to act," he said. "It's time for those who obstruct or delay or block the common sense gun laws."

You're just using this as another opportunity to take a cheap shot at and bitch about Biden.

[Cain]

Originally Posted by Checkmite

I wonder what kind of rifle it was.

The kind that gets the job done.

[Warp12]

I think the primary focus being on "assault weapons" is a mistake. I think more widespread restrictions on age of purchase, training and licensing requirements, checks/waiting periods, etc. are of more value.

The ideas of banning guns in general are just pie-in-the-sky stuff. Screeching about that is a waste of time, and counter productive.

[Delphic Oracle]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Yeah, this is just some of the "flatest, mealy-mouthed, cliche'-drenched nonsense" ever heard from a politician:



"I am sick and tired of it. We have to act and don't tell me we can't have an impact on this carnage," he said, referring to the recent mass shootings in Texas and Buffalo. "What in God's name do you need an assault rifle for except to kill someone? Deer aren't running through the forest with Kevlar vests on, for God's sake. It's just sick."

"Why are we willing to live with this carnage? Where in God's name is our backbone?"

"For God's sake, we have to have the courage to stand up to the industry. Here's what else I know. Most Americans support common sense laws common sense gun laws."

"We have to make it clear to every elected official in this country, it's time to act," he said. "It's time for those who obstruct or delay or block the common sense gun laws."

Telling us "we" have to do something? WE ELECTED YOU TO LEAD MOTHER ******!

Our opponents are "the lobby" and "the industry", nebulous, ephemeral conceptual entities.

A vague appeal to "make it clear" to politicians.

Yeah, I'll write my Congresscritter. Right after I send my thoughts and prayers.

Quote:

You're just using this as another opportunity to take a cheap shot at and bitch about Biden.

The bald hypocrisy of your statement is such that I ask the mods to please leave it right here where everyone can see it.

Don't you even ******* presume to taint my motive on this.

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

What does ANYONE outside of the military and law enforcement need an assault or assault style weapon for?

To make them feel like their dick is bigger?

[Dr.Sid]

Originally Posted by Warp12

I think the primary focus being on "assault weapons" is a mistake. I think more widespread restrictions on age of purchase, training and licensing requirements, checks/waiting periods, etc. are of more value.

The ideas of banning guns in general are just pie-in-the-sky stuff. Screeching about that is a waste of time, and counter productive.

Indeed. And registration. Every owner has to be responsible for securing his guns. And there has to be possibility to take them from him, if he loses his license.

[Delphic Oracle]

I like a nice, capitalist approach to this because it would be delicious irony.

Firearms insurance required to take possession. Miss payment: surrender firearm. Annual mental health evaluation, results to impact your premium payment. Gun gets stolen and used to kill/injure/threaten/rob someone, you pay big time. Verified proof of safe 3rd-party storage (for sport shooting/hunting) waives responsibility. And so on...

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

I like a nice, capitalist approach to this because it would be delicious irony.

Firearms insurance required to take possession. Miss payment: surrender firearm. Annual mental health evaluation, results to impact your premium payment. Gun gets stolen and used to kill/injure/threaten/rob someone, you pay big time. Verified proof of safe 3rd-party storage (for sport shooting/hunting) waives responsibility. And so on...

Suggestion: Make the insurance dependent on what kind of gun you own.
A bold action deer rifle should have a low rate, a semi atuo weapon a much higher one.

[dudalb]

What is worrying is that there are going to be alot of surplus M 16 in a few years; since the US Army has..after over 50 years...finally chosen a replacement with a Sig Sauer rifle as the new standard.The M 16 is now de facto obsolete for the Military.
Just afraid rather then junk them they will be sold to companies for "export and sale to freindly foreign governments" but a lot of leakage will occur....

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

Telling us "we" have to do something? WE ELECTED YOU TO LEAD MOTHER ******!

Our opponents are "the lobby" and "the industry", nebulous, ephemeral conceptual entities.

A vague appeal to "make it clear" to politicians.

Yeah, I'll write my Congresscritter. Right after I send my thoughts and prayers.

Oh, yeah, sure...because BIDEN can do anything without the cooperation of the GOP in Congress . Get real. Your post was just about as "Imma gonna whine about Biden" as it gets over something he cannot control. Give me a break.

Quote:

The bald hypocrisy of your statement is such that I ask the mods to please leave it right here where everyone can see it.

Great! I have no problem with leaving it right here so everyone can see it!

Quote:

Don't you even ******* presume to taint my motive on this.

I'll ******* presume all I want because your post is about as par for the course as they come when it comes to you bitching about Biden. I quoted what Biden said and if that's what your consider the "flatest, mealy-mouthed, cliche'-drenched nonsense" you ever heard from a politician, then you haven't been listening to politicians.

[dudalb]

Once again, some people will never forgive Biden for beating Bernie in the primary.....
And Delphi seems somewhat ignorant as to the extent of power the President has. It's not like Biden can order gun control with a stroke of his pen....

[Thermal]

Originally Posted by dudalb

Suggestion: Make the insurance dependent on what kind of gun you own.
A bold action deer rifle should have a low rate, a semi atuo weapon a much higher one.

And how exactly would that have slowed down young Sal here, or the pile of bodies he generated? Is a claims adjuster going to wave the policy at Ramos' mommy?

Mag fed semis are simply not needed by the non-mass killing population.

[stanfr]

Originally Posted by dudalb

Once again, some people will never forgive Biden for beating Bernie in the primary.....
And Delphi seems somewhat ignorant as to the extent of power the President has. It's not like Biden can order gun control with a stroke of his pen....

Well of course he can! Just steal a page from the DJT playbook, declare martial law and assume his rightful position as Supreme Dictator, and soon all guns will be confiscated. Problem solved!

[Delphic Oracle]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Oh, yeah, sure...because BIDEN can do anything without the cooperation of the GOP in Congress . Get real. Your post was just about as "Imma gonna whine about Biden" as it gets over something he cannot control. Give me a break.

Why is it that an uncooperative Democratic Congress can't seem to stop a willful Republican President.

Quote:

I'll ******* presume all I want because your post is about as par for the course as they come when it comes to you bitching about Biden. I quoted what Biden said and if that's what your consider the "flatest, mealy-mouthed, cliche'-drenched nonsense" you ever heard from a politician, then you haven't been listening to politicians.

Which I do once every few months when he does jack **** about serious problems.

But go on, sling handfuls of **** all you like.

[Delphic Oracle]

Originally Posted by dudalb

Once again, some people will never forgive Biden for beating Bernie in the primary.....
And Delphi seems somewhat ignorant as to the extent of power the President has. It's not like Biden can order gun control with a stroke of his pen....

Ladies and gentleman: the moderate perspective.

[Checkmite]

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

Ladies and gentleman: the moderate perspective.

Please describe your understanding of how the federal legislative process in the US is supposed to work.

[Delphic Oracle]

Children died and will continue to die, I want more than "let's do...something, and God bless ya!"

But nah, I'm really just butthurt about Bernie.

I'm pretty sure, other than my response to the all-too-frequent repetitions of this vapid retort, I've not even made a post with his name appearing in it for something like a year or more now.

So do understand, after literally breaking down in tears multiple times with coworkers throughout the day today, for someone to attribute my disappointment as mere idol worshipping jealousy is beyond the pale.

[Delphic Oracle]

Originally Posted by Checkmite

Please describe your understanding of how the federal legislative process in the US is supposed to work.

Institutional traditions.

Dead children.

I see what is important here.

Thanks for reminding me.

But, to address your smugness...

My understanding of the legislative process is such that I can detect that Biden isn't in the legislative branch.

Do what you want and and make them stop you.

"It's not the battles we lose that bother me, it's the ones we don't suit up for." - Toby Ziegler (The West Wing)

[Checkmite]

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

Institutional traditions.

Dead children.

I see what is important here.

Thanks for reminding me.

I'm not talking about arbitrary traditions that people are factually free to follow or not. I mean the actual federal legislative process, which is mandatory and cannot be simply skipped for the sake of expediency.

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

Why is it that an uncooperative Democratic Congress can't seem to stop a willful Republican President.


Which I do once every few months when he does jack **** about serious problems.

But go on, sling handfuls of **** all you like.

As long as you have such a backwards SYSTEM in your House of Government, that allows the MINORITY to dictate to the MAJORITY what legislation can be passed, NO presdient can ever be held to blame for not getting things done.

As long as you have such a backwards judicial system that gives wholly unqualified people lifetime appointments to your highest court, a system that allows one party to have dominance and influence over laws YEARS after those who appointed them have gone from office, you will continue to suffer things like having religious and political dogma take away your human rights and ability to change laws that YOUR PEOPLE want changed!!!!


You need to do away with the filibuster, permanently and for everything. No other civilized country in the world has a system where the majority needs the consent of the minority to pass laws and legislation.

You need to do away with Presidential nominations and political appointments of Judges, and instead, have experience and qualifications as the basis for the various levels of federal benches.

You need to do away with lifetime appointments to the benches of the Circuit Courts and SCOTUS. Six years maximum term followed by three years standdown before possible reappointment with a maximum to two terms, and forced retirement at 65.

The system in America is broken, badly. Nothing in America is going to change until the system changes.

[Checkmite]

Now being reported the shooter posted photos of the rifles on social media in recent days.

[stanfr]

Originally Posted by smartcooky

As long as you have such a backwards SYSTEM in your House of Government, that allows the MINORITY to dictate to the MAJORITY what legislation can be passed, NO presdient can ever be held to blame for not getting things done.

As long as you have such a backwards judicial system that gives wholly unqualified people lifetime appointments to your highest court, a system that allows one party to have dominance and influence over laws YEARS after those who appointed them have gone from office, you will continue to suffer things like having religious and political dogma take away your human rights and ability to change laws that YOUR PEOPLE want changed!!!!


You need to do away with the filibuster, permanently and for everything. No other civilized country in the world has a system where the majority needs the consent of the minority to pass laws and legislation.

You need to do away with Presidential nominations and political appointments of Judges, and instead, have experience and qualifications as the basis for the various levels of federal benches.

You need to do away with lifetime appointments to the benches of the Circuit Courts and SCOTUS. Six years maximum term followed by three years standdown before possible reappointment with a maximum to two terms, and forced retirement at 65.

The system in America is broken, badly. Nothing in America is going to change until the system changes.

Look how Congress votes on every important bill--straight down partisan lines. Barring some major changes in the system (like ranked voting) the only solution is to divide the country. Hopefully without civil unrest.

[stanfr]

Originally Posted by Checkmite

Now being reported the shooter posted photos of the rifles on social media in recent days.

Those photos apparently have been confirmed. The latest social media rumor is that he was transgender, with photos of him cross-dressing circulating online. Those seem highly suspect.

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Btw. is there someone even from democrats actually pushing for some change to 2nd amendment ?

Not that I'm aware of.

Quote:

Also, is it even needed ?

Opinions vary.

Basically, the only time I know where a law was overturned because it violated the 2nd amendment was the Heller decision, where it was said that a total ban on handgun ownership was unconstitutional. (Same reasoning repeated in McDonald, just with different jurisdiction.)

Generally, not so crazy people believe that licensing, registration, the type of firearms, and carry permits could all be regulated without violating the second amendment.

[Cain]

We need to invest in the safety of our children by hardening our schools. Security guards named Kevin. Ballistic blankets. Armed faculty. Don't teach children CRT; teach them MMA.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by smartcooky

...You need to do away with the filibuster, permanently and for everything. ...

The Republicans are going to do it anyway the soonest opportunity they have. And the stupid Democrats cave to the threat "if you do it..." The problem is we need more Democratic Senators so Manchin cannot vote against it.

We do need Manchin at the moment because he's stopping McConnell from being in charge of the Senate. I hope things will change in November. And I do work every election to get decent people elected.

Originally Posted by smartcooky

...You need to do away with Presidential nominations and political appointments of Judges, and instead, have experience and qualifications as the basis for the various levels of federal benches.

That would take a Constitutional amendment which is unlikely to happen while the minority has power which they do.

Originally Posted by smartcooky

...You need to do away with lifetime appointments to the benches of the Circuit Courts and SCOTUS. Six years maximum term followed by three years standdown before possible reappointment with a maximum to two terms, and forced retirement at 65.

Same problem as above.

Originally Posted by smartcooky

...The system in America is broken, badly. Nothing in America is going to change until the system changes.

And that's a serious challenge.

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Warp12

This guy sounds like a hero.

I would agree there.