Murders of 4 Idaho College Students - suspect arrested

[bagels]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

And so the rush to blame Dylan begins. You can bet your last dollar that many of these armchair detectives will never give up that belief no matter what.

She was literally one Mignini away from being Amanda Knox'd. Can you imagine if they were leaking updates about the case from the moment it happened like the Italians? If the first thing the public learned was Dylan was wandering around outside the crime scene and not calling 911?

Her DNA is definitely in the house and in her own sink.

A giant kitchen knife she had access to is definitely not entirely incompatible with some of the edged blade wounds on the victims.

There's a mountain of Massei court level evidence just waiting for her conviction. And these idiots would eat it up lol. Luckily in this case there was a professional barrier of entry saving the pitchfork crowd from themselves and the investigation focused on the murder scene evidence, the male perpetrator it lead them to, and his surrounding actions and history (none of which connected with the surviving roommate, just like Rudy Guede wow).

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by bagels

She was literally one Mignini away from being Amanda Knox'd. Can you imagine if they were leaking updates about the case from the moment it happened like the Italians? If the first thing the public learned was Dylan was wandering around outside the crime scene and not calling 911?

Her DNA is definitely in the house and in her own sink.

A giant kitchen knife she had access to is definitely not entirely incompatible with some of the edged blade wounds on the victims.

There's a mountain of Massei court level evidence just waiting for her conviction. And these idiots would eat it up lol. Luckily in this case there was a professional barrier of entry saving the pitchfork crowd from themselves and the investigation focused on the murder scene evidence, the male perpetrator it lead them to, and his surrounding actions and history (none of which connected with the surviving roommate, just like Rudy Guede wow).

Well, wait until we find out how many men Dylan had sex with while in college! What was her nickname as a kid? Did she have a vibrator? I heard she was jealous of her roommates! Just let me get a good look at her eyes!

[marting]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...es/ss-AA163dOc

Quote:

An FBI surveillance team watched Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger (pictured) take out the trash at his parent's house wearing surgical gloves at 4am – before dumping it in a neighbor's bin.

Hey, who doesn't do that? lol

OTOH, it's the daily fail so it might just be a good story.

[Vixen]

Thoughts about Dylan Mortensen

This is quite intriguing. Time line per the affidavit is that Kohberger (or the driver of the Elantra, almost certainly him). Dash Door delivery arrived circa 4:00. As its name implies the food delivery is just left at the door and the person ordering has to go down to the porch out of the front door to collect it from the doorstep. Kohberger (BCK) arrives circa 4:04.

Quote:

Suspect Vehicle 1 can be seen entering the area a fourth time a approximalely 4:04 a.m. It
can be seen driving eastbound on King Road, stopping and tuming around in front of 500 Queen
Road #52 and then driving back westbound on King Road. When Suspect Vehicle I is in front of
the King Road Residence, it appeared to unsuccessfully attempt to park or tum around in the
road. The vehicle then continued to the intersection of Queen Road and King Road where it can
be seen completing a three-point tum and then driving eastbound again down Queen Road.
Suspect Vehicle I is next seen departing the area oftle King Road Residence at
approximately 4:20 a.m. at a high rate of speed. Suspect Vehicle I is next observed traveling
southbound on Walenta Drive. Based on my knowledge ofthe area and review of camera footage
in the neighborhood tlat does not show Suspect vehicle 1 during that timeframe, I believe that
Suspect Vehicle I likely exited the neighborhood at Palouse River Drive and Conestoga Drive.
Palouse Nver Drive is at the southem edge of Moscow and proceeds into Whitrnan County,
Washington. Eventually the road leads to Pullrnaq Washington. Pullman Washington is approximately l0 miles from Moscow, Idaho. Both Pullman and Moscow are small college
towns and people commonly travel back and forth between them. p 6

affidavit

However, BCK left home and his phone goes off the radar at circa 2:47. Police estimate that for a short ten mile journey that should take no more than about twenty minutes at most but BCK seems to have deliberately chosen a long circular route taking over an hour, presumably to confuse the traffic cameras, southwards, then east for a short while and then back up again northwards to 1122 King Road, Idaho.

In addition, he had made a similar journey on about twelve earlier occasions from August onwards late at night or in the early hours presumably casing the joint and spying on it.

So, to November 13, 2022. Xana has ordered a food delivery which arrives at 4:00am, so she at least is awake when BCK arrives just after 4:04. She will have had to go down to the ground floor to fetch it, so she likely came face-to-face with BCK at some point. She was found with severe defence injuries on the floor of her room. Ethan is said to have been found on the bed (other reports elsewhere had said he was found on the floor of the kitchen). BCK is believed to have entered via the kitchen sliding door on Floor two.

layout floor two - entrance

The kitchen is directly opposite to the room occupied by Dylan. She had been on Floor One (where other survivor Bethany Funke remained) until two weeks before when she moved to Floor Two. In other words, when BCK entered via the sliding door on Floor two, Dylan's room would have been the first he would have seen immediately in front of him coming out of the kitchen.

However, police said initially they believed they believed the attack was targetted. We do not know towards whom yet but it would be one of Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen or Xana Kernodle. Kaylee is said to have had the worst injuries than Madison according to her father, Steve, who saw the death certificate.

It is thought BCK started upstairs on Floor Three, where Kaylee and Madison had their rooms. Both girls were found in Madison's smaller room. BCK then descended the stairs back to Floor Two which are adjacent to Dylan's room.

He might well at this stage encountered Xana coming upstairs from Floor One with her food delivery.

xana room aspect to stairs

Quote:

D.M. stated she originally went to sleep in her bedroom on the southeast side of the
second floor. D.M. stated she was awoken at approximately 4:00 a-m. by what she stated
sounded like Goncalves playing with her dog in one of the upstairs bedrooms, which were
located on the third floor. A short time later, D.M. said she heard who she thought was
Goncalves say something to the effect of "there's someone here."

ibid

Madison's room is immediately above Dylan's room. Dylan says she looked out of the door of her room at least three times because of the noise.

BCK then attacked both than and Xana, whose rooms were via a hallway which then back tracked towards their room. Again, he would have passed Dylan's room as he turned from the stairwell to approach this hallway to Xana's room. It could be he went for Xana because she bumped into him.

Quote:

A review of records obtained
from a forensic download of Kernodle's phone showed this could also have been Kernodle as her
cellular phone indicated she was likely awake and using the TikTok app at approximately 4:12
a.m-
D.M. stated she looked out of her bedroom but did not see anything when she heard the
comment about someone being in the house. D,M. stated she opened her door a second time
when she heard what she thought was crying coming from Kernodle's room. D.M. then said she
heard a male voice say something to the effect of "it's ok, I'm going to help you."
At approximately 4:17 a"m., a security camera located at I 112 King Road, a residence
immediately to the northwest of 1122 King Road, picked up distorted audio of what sounded like
voices or a whimper followed by a loud thud. A dog can also be heard barking numerous times
starting at 4:17 a-m. The security camera is less than fifty feet from the west wall of Kernodle's
bedroom.

ibid

ISTM Kaylee and Madison were already dead or dying by that stage so it was almost certainly Xana's voice and crying she heard.

Quote:

D.M. stated she operned her door for the third time after she heard the crying and saw a
figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose walking
towards her. D.M. described the figure as 5' I 0" or taller, male, not very muscular, but
athletically built with bushy eyebrows. The male walked past D.M. as she stood in a "frozen
shock phase." The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. D.M. locked herself in her room after seeing the male. D.M. did not state that she recognized the male. This leads
investigators to believe that the murderer left the scene.

ibid (public affidvit)

Dylan's door opens inward, as can be seen from this picture.

From Kuula estate agent virtual tour

Did BCK see her? If he was targetted someone in particular that might be a reason he ignored her as she was standing stock still and silent. Maybe she was in the dark and he didn't see her although she saw him. In addition, with the dog barking, BCK may well have panicked and decided it was time to flee. If he had knife or was blood splattered that would explain Dylan going into a trauma.

In the Speck murder where eight (IIRC) women were murdered one woman stayed terrified under the bed for six hours. In any case, Dylan is regarded as a victim whereas Bethany who also got up near midday is just a witness. It seems Dylan was so disconcerted she called a boyfriend to come over rather than ring 911. It is the boyfriend who made the 911 call and his reference to 'someone lying unconscious' a reference to Dylan passed out on the floor or the ground outside, in shock. Blood is said to have been seen dripping from Xana's floor.

One weird detail is that Madison Mogen uploaded a tiktok video, her last, a couple of weeks before of some arty theatrical scene, where a few people a dress up, when Dylan supposedly appears at the door in every day clothes shouting, 'manipulator, liar, *******!' This seems to indicate some friction between housemates. Something or nothing.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Walking past Dylan might be why the cops at first made the announcement it was a targeted attack.

[Bob001]

"48 Hours" had a pretty thorough overview of the case tonight.
Video:
https://www.cbsnews.com/video/the-id...udent-murders/
transcript:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/idaho-s...ails-48-hours/

[Bob001]

A side show: College professor sues tarot card reader for accusing her of directing the murders.

Quote:

A Houston TikToker who claims to solve crimes through Tarot readings is facing a defamation lawsuit from an Idaho professor who says the "purported internet sleuth" is falsely linking her to the murders of four University of Idaho students.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/new...s-17681652.php

[Thermal]

Anybody else little uneasy with the neighbor having an audio recording security camera less than 50 feet from young women's bedrooms in a party house?

[marting]

Originally Posted by Thermal

Anybody else little uneasy with the neighbor having an audio recording security camera less than 50 feet from young women's bedrooms in a party house?

Normally that seems creepy but, given the reputation as a party house and cops called multiple times for noise, it seems pretty logical for a neighbor to record audio.

[Thermal]

Originally Posted by marting

Normally that seems creepy but, given the reputation as a party house and cops called multiple times for noise, it seems pretty logical for a neighbor to record audio.

I dunno. If the police were called for a noise complaint in a house full of drunk college kids, I'd bet the 5-0 would hear the noise as they drove up the street while responding, and recorded proof be unnecessary. Buying audio recording surveillance equipment sensitive enough to record indoor voices (presumably windows closed in an Idaho November) to play Perry Mason and get the house, what, a $50 fine? Probably difficult to prove who gets the fine, and even really prove that the noise came from a specific occupant of the rental property. I'd put even money that it was more coercive to say to the girls "you want this tape of your bedroom noises played in open court?"

[marting]

Originally Posted by Thermal

I dunno. If the police were called for a noise complaint in a house full of drunk college kids, I'd bet the 5-0 would hear the noise as they drove up the street while responding, and recorded proof be unnecessary. Buying audio recording surveillance equipment sensitive enough to record indoor voices (presumably windows closed in an Idaho November) to play Perry Mason and get the house, what, a $50 fine? Probably difficult to prove who gets the fine, and even really prove that the noise came from a specific occupant of the rental property. I'd put even money that it was more coercive to say to the girls "you want this tape of your bedroom noises played in open court?"

Probably not a fine. Cops didn't do anything other then tell them to tone it down. My guess is more to confront them and if not reponsive, evidence for a restraining order. I would be highly annoyed if I lived there with the frequent party noise.

[Jack by the hedge]

Originally Posted by Thermal

Buying audio recording surveillance equipment sensitive enough to record indoor voices (presumably windows closed in an Idaho November)

Is there any reason to think they installed anything more exotic than a domestic security camera with a built-in microphone? (I haven't followed the case other than browsing this thread)

Even if the house tends to be noisy, its not likely to be at 4am. Even with the windows shut you would probably be heard from several houses away if you yell.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Suddenly

It's absurd.

First, that this woman came into contact with the Daily Mail at all is worth scrutinizing. It's quite random. They've been known to just make stuff up to see how many outlets uncritically repeat it. I did some digging and at least the woman apparently exists and geographically the story is plausible.

Second, all she knows is someone else in the jail said that the person acting up was the guy. She wouldn't know him from Adam.

It's NYE, she's just been arrested, probably not sober and essentially in the drunk tank / holding cell, and some guy in a nearby cell is acting like a lunatic. Which is pretty standard especially on NYE, and some random tells her that this is the guy and she believes it. This isn't a small jail. The capacity is in the hundreds.

It's unlikely the jail design is such that their priority inmates are within view of the holding cell, but I've admittedly seen some dumb jail setups where suicide watch is visible from intake....

How this got to the Daily Mail is an interesting question. That it went anywhere and that other news orgs are amplifying it without independently confirming is a good example of the problems with modern media.

I agree 100%. Early reporting on sensational cases, especially in tabloid type media, is often misleading or just made up. People and other media then believe it, repeat it, and it becomes a 'fact' for many. Nick Pisa, a Daily Mail 'journalist' notoriously said that they just repeat whatever they've been told but taking the time to get things accurate/fact check would mean losing the scoop and getting paid.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Hindsight is a fine thing. There had been at least two noise violations at that property in recent months, so it is reasonable for Dylan to have assumed it was some kind of couples row, with the crying.

It is quite chilling that the audio sensors outside the building picked up a harrowing scream and a thud.

I am guessing Dylan is relieved that she wasn't next, now she knows what really took place upstairs.

Hopefully for the police, she will be able to positively identify him.

Do you think that's a normal reaction? Feeling relief? It's amazing how people can judge a person's reaction in totally different ways depending on their bias.

Edited by Agatha:

Edited to remove invitation to go off topic

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

They wanted photos of his hands. I wonder if he cut himself and they found his blood at the scene. Why else would they want pics of his hands?

It's not uncommon for an assailant's hand to slip from a bloody knife handle down onto the blade and to cut his fingers/palm. For example:

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Vixen

It is upsetting to discover that she heard crying. It suggests a victim was begging for her life or had witnessed an attack on a friend.

The puzzle is, Xana was supposedly still on her cellphone looking at Tik Tok and had called for a food delivery at 4:00am. She was with boyfriend Nathan, quite a large well-built guy, so it I wonder how they can have been 'killed in their sleep', or even all four of them, especially if crying was heard.

Some people would believe it impossible for one man to have stabbed to death 3 women and "quite a large well-built guy". Some would claim there had to be more than one assailant involved. And yet, that does seem to be the case here.

[TheGoldcountry]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Some people would believe it impossible for one man to have stabbed to death 3 women and "quite a large well-built guy". Some would claim there had to be more than one assailant involved. And yet, that does seem to be the case here.

Well, that seems like jumping to conclusions based on a false premise (and personal incredulity), which is illogical. Who would do that?

[Skeptic Ginger]

Re the downstairs roommate, Dylan, not reacting as we would in hindsight, I already noted lots of people are reluctant to act under various circumstances. But we also don't know how well the two unharmed roommates knew the murdered ones. Sharing a big house in college often means people are half-way between a house full of friends and a rooming house where no one knows the other people very well. Someone moves out, you find someone else. It's not the same as 5 girls setting out together to find a house to share.

That doesn't mean you don't get to know the others, you do because you share a kitchen and maybe some of the bathrooms. But you may not feel comfortable knocking on the door of roommates you think are asleep at 4:30 in the morning. You wouldn't expect they'd all just been murdered.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry

Well, that seems like jumping to conclusions based on a false premise (and personal incredulity), which is illogical. Who would do that?

I agree. I suspect confirmation bias could be in play.

[Bob001]

Originally Posted by Thermal

I dunno. If the police were called for a noise complaint in a house full of drunk college kids, I'd bet the 5-0 would hear the noise as they drove up the street while responding, and recorded proof be unnecessary. Buying audio recording surveillance equipment sensitive enough to record indoor voices (presumably windows closed in an Idaho November) to play Perry Mason and get the house, what, a $50 fine?
....

A quick search indicates that a lot of standard off-the-shelf consumer security cameras include audio recording and two-way talk. Ring and Simplisafe are two of the best-known brands, and both offer them. Doesn't sound like the neighbor went out of his way to do anything unusual.

[Bob001]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Re the downstairs roommate, Dylan, not reacting as we would in hindsight, I already noted lots of people are reluctant to act under various circumstances. But we also don't know how well the two unharmed roommates knew the murdered ones. Sharing a big house in college often means people are half-way between a house full of friends and a rooming house where no one knows the other people very well. Someone moves out, you find someone else. It's not the same as 5 girls setting out together to find a house to share.

That doesn't mean you don't get to know the others, you do because you share a kitchen and maybe some of the bathrooms. But you may not feel comfortable knocking on the door of roommates you think are asleep at 4:30 in the morning. You wouldn't expect they'd all just been murdered.

I don't have any trouble believing that someone did nothing in the middle of the night because they were paralyzed by fear or confusion or denial. It still seems strange that the two survivors didn't check on the roommates until close to noon. They shared a kitchen. Did they usually see each other at breakfast? Did the roommates usually turn on TVs in the morning? I might not have knocked on anybody's door at 4:30, but I probably would have by 10 or so.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Re the downstairs roommate, Dylan, not reacting as we would in hindsight, I already noted lots of people are reluctant to act under various circumstances. But we also don't know how well the two unharmed roommates knew the murdered ones. Sharing a big house in college often means people are half-way between a house full of friends and a rooming house where no one knows the other people very well. Someone moves out, you find someone else. It's not the same as 5 girls setting out together to find a house to share.

That doesn't mean you don't get to know the others, you do because you share a kitchen and maybe some of the bathrooms. But you may not feel comfortable knocking on the door of roommates you think are asleep at 4:30 in the morning. You wouldn't expect they'd all just been murdered.

Exactly. I would remind everyone, too, that we don't know the whole story yet. Dylan may have a very plausible explanation we just don't know yet.

The delay in calling 911 can be explained:

Quote:

What was described as “frozen shock phase” could fall under a number of acute trauma responses, such as dissociation and tonic immobility, which are commonly elicited in stressful scenarios, experts said Friday.

It comes down to the basic human response of fight, flight or freeze when people believe they could be under threat, said Dr. Judith F. Joseph, a clinical assistant professor of psychiatry at New York University Grossman School of Medicine at NYU Langone Health.

“When your body is in shock and you think you’re going to die or you think you’re in a threatening situation, adrenaline surges your sympathetic nervous system and takes off, and you may experience a frozen state where consciously you know what’s happening, but then a coping mechanism is for you to dissociate,” Joseph said.

People who have experienced it said they felt as if they were not part of their bodies, a state brought on by traumatic shock, she said. “People may disassociate in and out for hours, especially if they’ve been through severe trauma,” Joseph said, adding that their minds wander to another place to get away from the trauma or fear.

Quote:

“It’s possible what happened with her was that she sort of went into a dissociation state and was just kind of confused and shocked and not really understanding what’s going on,” said Dr. Akeem Marsh, a clinical professor of psychiatry at New York University Grossman School of Medicine at NYU Langone Health, referring to Mortensen.

Quote:

“In those states, the mind is really shutting down to protect itself.”

Marsh said a person could have “no concept of time, so many hours could have gone by, and you really don’t even know what happened until you finally snap back to reality and realize something happened.”

These are all responses to traumatic shock, he said, which could impair cognitive ability, including decision-making. He said the survivors may continue to experience symptoms of shock, which could persist for weeks after the trauma, especially as their realization of what happened increases.

Emily Dworkin, an assistant professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences at the University of Washington School of Medicine, said another common response triggered by Mortensen’s “frozen shock phase” could be tonic immobility, a paralysis-like state.

“You sort of shut down entirely while still being able to encode what’s happening, so you’re still actively processing what’s happening in the environment, but your ability to respond to it is shut down,” she said.

Tonic immobility can last for hours in some people, she said.

People often make the mistake of projecting what they think someone would/ should do or how someone should/would react based on what they think they would do. But until you've actually been through the same or a similar situation, you can only assume. You'd be surprised how different that may be from what you assumed.

[Axxman300]

Originally Posted by Bob001

I don't have any trouble believing that someone did nothing in the middle of the night because they were paralyzed by fear or confusion or denial. It still seems strange that the two survivors didn't check on the roommates until close to noon. They shared a kitchen. Did they usually see each other at breakfast? Did the roommates usually turn on TVs in the morning? I might not have knocked on anybody's door at 4:30, but I probably would have by 10 or so.

I got sucked into this case a few weeks ago, thanks to Youtube idiots.

To address this statement, I'll point out this out: This all happened on a Sunday morning after all four tenants had spent the night partying i.e drinking, and getting stoned. The 04:00 Door-Dash delivery from Jack in the Box would be evidence of the munchies. Based on the affidavit, we know DM was awakened by commotion from above starting after 04:00, the chain of events has already been discussed. The simple, probable answer to this mystery is that both surviving roommates were hung over. I don't know about anyone else here, but I've been there a few times. And I was a blackout drunk too, meaning I would have slept through a parade of marching bands, and 747s gunning their engines.

DM being "frozen in terror" is not unprecedented, Elizabeth Smart's little sister waited two years until she told police she had witnessed the abduction. We also saw this in the Keddie killings, where one surviving child claimed he had no memory of the events, even though the other kid in the room knew he saw the killers. Not making excuses, just a possible explanation. And if I was the defense lawyer in this case, I would ask if DM had been under the influence of narcotics, which is the most common excuse for not calling the police in a crisis situation. Then you have people like my mother, who will literally curl up in a ball, and shut down to avoid confrontation. And finally, in my hotel job, I can testify to the fact that only 1 in 15 people will call for help in a crisis.

Hell, I hate calling the police, and I do it all the time.

Getting back to the subject, we don't know what the crime scene looked like, and we won't until the trial is underway. I suspect once we have the full picture, we'll know why the roommates didn't call sooner.

[Checkmite]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

And so the rush to blame Dylan begins. You can bet your last dollar that many of these armchair detectives will never give up that belief no matter what.

The true-crime/internet detective "fandom" is a cancer, quite frankly. They don't think twice about accusing anyone of committing a crime; "suspects" are just NPC's in an ARG to them.

[Checkmite]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

People often make the mistake of projecting what they think someone would/ should do or how someone should/would react based on what they think they would do. But until you've actually been through the same or a similar situation, you can only assume. You'd be surprised how different that may be from what you assumed.

And even if you have been in a certain situation, it still doesn't give you any insight on how everyone else would or should act.. Certainly not enough to declare someone else's action or inaction "suspicious" because it was different from yours in a similar situation.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by Bob001

I don't have any trouble believing that someone did nothing in the middle of the night because they were paralyzed by fear or confusion or denial. It still seems strange that the two survivors didn't check on the roommates until close to noon. They shared a kitchen. Did they usually see each other at breakfast? Did the roommates usually turn on TVs in the morning? I might not have knocked on anybody's door at 4:30, but I probably would have by 10 or so.

Students getting up at near midday? Now there's a rarity. I expect the probable cause affidavit is just the bare bones of what Dylan saw and thought. Given she locked herself in her room after the intruder left out of the sliding door, it does sound like some kind of trauma set in. Some people disassociate when in danger, go into a trance. One commentator claimed she hid in a closet, others that she went to sleep. She is the person presumed to have passed out whilst her boyfriend called 911. We don't know what she saw or whether she locked her door immediately for the entire night.

[gabeygoat]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

It's not uncommon for an assailant's hand to slip from a bloody knife handle down onto the blade and to cut his fingers/palm. For example:



http://www.internationalskeptics.com...b35295b5bd.jpg

this is why you always use someone else's hand




/tacky comment

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Students getting up at near midday? Now there's a rarity. ...

Exactly. And the surviving roommates needn't have been hungover. And who turns on the TV (from an above post)? Certainly not most college students. I didn't even own a TV when I was in college.

Unless there was blood seeping under a door everything would likely have seemed normal. Roommates sleeping in? Normal.

I am mildly curious about that 911 call and the unconscious person but not for any particular reason.

[Thermal]

Originally Posted by Bob001

A quick search indicates that a lot of standard off-the-shelf consumer security cameras include audio recording and two-way talk. Ring and Simplisafe are two of the best-known brands, and both offer them. Doesn't sound like the neighbor went out of his way to do anything unusual.

Not really. Ring and Simplisafe have two way audio on their doorbell/intercom devices only. Outdoor cameras do not generally have audio, as they may violate recording laws in one-party States (where you can only legally record if one party being recorded consents). You can't generally record audio of others, who are not consenting. I checked, and Idaho is indeed a one-party State.

Also, Ring and Simplisafe have their audio range at 20-25 feet, which is fine for a doorbell/intercom. The camera in question was said to be closer to 50 feet away, and recording voices inside a (presumably) closed house. That's some mighty powerful audio recording capability. Try it at home. I put my tv on uncomfortably loud and went outside, and at abt 30-35 feet from the tv, dead quiet on the quiet sidewalk. Ring & SS doorbells don't continuously record, either. They have to be manually activated from one end or the other, or have close motion set them off.

Not a big deal either way. Just curious about hearing this audio recording that should have been criminal to be able to make, and major creepy either way. How would you feel about a neighbor literally recording what you were doing in your home? I mean, seriously man.

[Bob001]

Originally Posted by Thermal

Not really. Ring and Simplisafe have two way audio on their doorbell/intercom devices only. Outdoor cameras do not generally have audio, as they may violate recording laws in one-party States (where you can only legally record if one party being recorded consents). You can't generally record audio of others, who are not consenting. I checked, and Idaho is indeed a one-party State.
.....

I dunno. It looks like both have some outdoor cameras with audio functions.
https://ring.com/products/spotlight-cam-pro-battery
https://simplisafe.com/outdoor-security-camera

Here are others.
https://www.cctvcameraworld.com/secu...ith-audio.html

The laws can be tricky, but if you're operating your own recorder on your own property -- as opposed to hiding a recorder somewhere else -- I'd be surprised if you can't record what you can actually hear. I would think that would make you the necessary one-party. But IANAL.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by Thermal

Not really. Ring and Simplisafe have two way audio on their doorbell/intercom devices only. Outdoor cameras do not generally have audio, as they may violate recording laws in one-party States (where you can only legally record if one party being recorded consents). You can't generally record audio of others, who are not consenting. I checked, and Idaho is indeed a one-party State.

Also, Ring and Simplisafe have their audio range at 20-25 feet, which is fine for a doorbell/intercom. The camera in question was said to be closer to 50 feet away, and recording voices inside a (presumably) closed house. That's some mighty powerful audio recording capability. Try it at home. I put my tv on uncomfortably loud and went outside, and at abt 30-35 feet from the tv, dead quiet on the quiet sidewalk. Ring & SS doorbells don't continuously record, either. They have to be manually activated from one end or the other, or have close motion set them off.

Not a big deal either way. Just curious about hearing this audio recording that should have been criminal to be able to make, and major creepy either way. How would you feel about a neighbor literally recording what you were doing in your home? I mean, seriously man.

If you are talking about the audio tik tok supposedly picking up the last moments of Ethan and Xana, together with barking dog, that is likely to be a fake, albeit very harrowing to listen to. At one point a voice says, 'It's Bryan'.

The police need to confirm whether it is genuine or fake or it may taint the jury pool.

[Thermal]

Originally Posted by Bob001

I dunno. It looks like both have some outdoor cameras with audio functions.
https://ring.com/products/spotlight-cam-pro-battery
https://simplisafe.com/outdoor-security-camera

Here are others.
https://www.cctvcameraworld.com/secu...ith-audio.html

You're right, I should have known they were out there. Presumably, they include warnings for installing where they may violate a neighbor's reasonable expectation of privacy. Like, you can't put one pointing at your neighbors window, but on a large property, you would be able to record what happens within it without infringing.

Quote:

The laws can be tricky, but if you're operating your own recorder on your own property -- as opposed to hiding a recorder somewhere else -- I'd be surprised if you can't record what you can actually hear. I would think that would make you the necessary one-party. But IANAL.

I'm not a lawyer either, but I'm pretty sure one of the people being recorded has to be the one giving consent.

Again, not a huge issue. Just seems weird to be able to pick up voices at 50 feet from the interior of a closed up neighbors property. Sounds like far higher quality equipment than those little 20-25 foot range Ring things.

In beach town construction, we have to be exquisitely careful not to point cameras where they catch a neighboring homes. It's actually a little tricky when houses are six feet off the property lines and cameras tend to be mounted high. Seems like the same reasoning would apply to audio recording strong enough to hear interior voices at that range. It would be the recording party's obligation to insure they are not violating the neighbor's reasonable expectation of privacy.

[Thermal]

Originally Posted by Vixen

If you are talking about the audio tik tok supposedly picking up the last moments of Ethan and Xana, together with barking dog, that is likely to be a fake, albeit very harrowing to listen to. At one point a voice says, 'It's Bryan'.

The police need to confirm whether it is genuine or fake or it may taint the jury pool.

No, I was referring to the affidavit, where police say that voices, barking, and all were caught by neighbors surveillance equipment.

The tictok thing may or may not be real, of course. Trolls are out there and get off on that kind of thing. But I'm pretty sure a juror would be going pretty far out of their way to listen to it, and would be DQed from the pool on multiple grounds before it went online.

[Chris_Halkides]

"“Studying criminology is not going to make you a criminal, and it’s not going to make you a better criminal,” said James Allan Fox, a longtime professor of criminology at Northeastern University and the former dean of its College of Criminal Justice. “What we teach is ‘how come?’ Not ‘how.’”" Inside Higher Ed

From the same article: "“In my 10 years of teaching, I’ve only recommended two students to a Ph.D. program and he was one of them,” Bolger told the [Daily] Mail. “He was one of my best students, ever.""

[theprestige]

Maybe someone should check on his other Ph.D. recommendation...

[Stacyhs]

Kohberger is obviously smart, but smart people can be killers, too. Here are several notorious killers with their IQ.
[/url]

Ted Kaczynski (Unibomber) 167

Jeffrey Dahmer 145

Dr. Harold Shipman 140

Ted Bundy 136

Edward Kemper 136/145 (tested twice)

[theprestige]

Every day I have a little less faith in IQ as a good measure of smartitude.

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by Checkmite

The true-crime/internet detective "fandom" is a cancer, quite frankly. They don't think twice about accusing anyone of committing a crime; "suspects" are just NPC's in an ARG to them.

I can't tell you how much contempt actual CSI/Criminal investigators have for these bozos.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Every day I have a little less faith in IQ as a good measure of smartitude.

IQ estimates a person's reasoning and problem-solving abilities. It doesn't deal with a person's emotional or psychological/mental health problems. A person can be very intelligent but still be a psycho/sociopath, narcissist, etc. which impact how they think. I know a few people with very high IQ's but can be absolute idiots due to other factors.

[marting]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

IQ estimates a person's reasoning and problem-solving abilities. It doesn't deal with a person's emotional or psychological/mental health problems. A person can be very intelligent but still be a psycho/sociopath, narcissist, etc. which impact how they think. I know a few people with very high IQ's but can be absolute idiots due to other factors.

During my college years, I noticed that I tended to do worse relative to other students in classes where the mid-terms and finals were time limited (3 hrs typically) but still take home but collected a few days later. I did better on the ones that were passed out and collected 3 hours, rather than days later. And tests were not allowed to be proctored nor students required to stay in the classroom. Perfectly fine to take the exam and do it wherever you felt most comfortable. Theory was that we were all subject to the honor system so proctoring wasn't allowed. Some open book, fewer closed book. But all time limited.

Easy to cheat and not get caught. But if you did you had to live the rest of your life knowing you took unfair advantage of others. I would think that a hell of a burden.