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Old 6th January 2023, 06:33 PM   #1
mgidm86
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6 yr old in custody after shooting teacher

Not sure where else to post this.

6-year-old in custody after shooting teacher in Virginia, police chief says

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/06/us/ne...ing/index.html

To clarify, because I was wondering before I read it, a 6 year-old kid brought a gun to school, had an altercation with a teacher and the teacher was shot.
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Old 7th January 2023, 04:54 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Not sure where else to post this.

6-year-old in custody after shooting teacher in Virginia, police chief says

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/06/us/ne...ing/index.html

To clarify, because I was wondering before I read it, a 6 year-old kid brought a gun to school, had an altercation with a teacher and the teacher was shot.

That plus there have already been 14 mass shootings in the first 6 days of this year, killing 21 (8 in one incident in Utah) & injuring 53.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/r.../mass-shooting
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Old 7th January 2023, 01:44 PM   #3
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The child is surely well below the age of criminal responsibility, and that's as it should be. The person or people responsible for this shooting and GBH is the person who allowed or facilitated the child to have the gun. Will this be the attitude of the criminal justice system, or indeed of the US public, though?
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Old 7th January 2023, 01:52 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
The child is surely well below the age of criminal responsibility, and that's as it should be. The person or people responsible for this shooting and GBH is the person who allowed or facilitated the child to have the gun. Will this be the attitude of the criminal justice system, or indeed of the US public, though?
Well that s what I would have thought, but it’s reported that the child is in custody. I didn’t think that a child under the age of criminal responsibility could even be detained.
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Old 7th January 2023, 01:55 PM   #5
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If only the teacher had been armed!
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Old 7th January 2023, 01:55 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
The child is surely well below the age of criminal responsibility, and that's as it should be. The person or people responsible for this shooting and GBH is the person who allowed or facilitated the child to have the gun. Will this be the attitude of the criminal justice system, or indeed of the US public, though?
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Well that s what I would have thought, but it’s reported that the child is in custody. I didn’t think that a child under the age of criminal responsibility could even be detained.
Of course the child is in custody ... until things get sorted. They need to be put in a residential psych facility or some other setting where they can get treatment.

This is more than parents leaving easy access to a gun.
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Old 7th January 2023, 02:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
“We need the community’s support, continued support, to make sure that guns are not available to youth and I’m sounding like a broken record today, because I continue to reiterate that: that we need to keep the guns out of the hands of our young people,” the superintendent said.

Apparently there is only one way to do that and that is to keep guns out of the hands of adults.

Or maybe this will work one day:

From the Governor: "... thoughts and prayers...."
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Old 7th January 2023, 02:36 PM   #8
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I'm guessing that the child is 'in custody' for its own protection.

From the gormless 'adult' that left a firearm somewhere that the child could find it.

(For example, if the firearm belongs to the parent/s then home is probably not a safe place for the child)

As bad as this is, it's not as bad as the child dying as soon as it picked up the weapon.
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Old 7th January 2023, 02:45 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Well that s what I would have thought, but it’s reported that the child is in custody.
What would you do with a child who just shot somebody, send him out to the playground to play on the swing set?
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Old 7th January 2023, 02:56 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
If only the teacher had been armed!
On any other occasion, I would have posted a laughing smiley, but this is not a laughing matter, so I will have to be content with a serious pair of

This story, right here, is where America and its obsession with guns, has arrived at. If you have the "good guy with a gun" attitude, and have people armed in the streets, then that is what you are teaching your children... and don't be fooled into believing that six year olds are not able to learn and understand those lessons. Just watch how quick they can add profanity to their vocabulary!
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Old 7th January 2023, 03:01 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by jt512 View Post
What would you do with a child who just shot somebody, send him out to the playground to play on the swing set?
Of course not. “In custody” usually means in a cell. I hope that isn’t the case for a 6 year old.
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Old 7th January 2023, 03:22 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Of course not. “In custody” usually means in a cell. I hope that isn’t the case for a 6 year old.
No it doesn't.
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Old 7th January 2023, 03:30 PM   #13
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Yes it does

“Someone who is in custody or has been taken into custody has been arrested and is being kept in prison until they can be tried in a court.”
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Old 7th January 2023, 03:54 PM   #14
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No, it doesn't.

"I have custody of my children."

"They are currently in the custody of Child Health Services."

"They are currently being held in custody by the Sheriff's Department."

Any differences jump out at you?
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Old 7th January 2023, 04:12 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
No, it doesn't.

"I have custody of my children."

"They are currently in the custody of Child Health Services."

"They are currently being held in custody by the Sheriff's Department."

Any differences jump out at you?
Are you serious? From the link in the OP.

“A 6-year-old boy was taken into police custody”.
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Old 7th January 2023, 05:01 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Are you serious? From the link in the OP.

“A 6-year-old boy was taken into police custody”.
Give it up LK. Police custody is obviously where one starts and from there social services or some other relevant agency would be called by the police. For starters juvenile detention is where kids are held, not adult prison cells. But that is most often for kids 10 and older.

You are looking at an initial news report and drawing silly conclusions the child is in an adult cell somewhere.

An update
Quote:
"The individual is a 6-year-old student. He is right now in police custody," Drew said. "We have been in contact with our commonwealth attorney and some other entities to help us best get services to this young man."

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 7th January 2023 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 7th January 2023, 05:02 PM   #17
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@lionking: Jesus ******* Christ it's about the gun not the word "custody". Gawdam, yes police custody can mean they are sitting at a detectives desk, or an interview room drinking hot cocoa. Ever hear of protective custody? Custody does not mean arrested.

ITS THE GUN!!!!! This is one reason nothing changes. We don't ******* care. We are too easily distracted by bullcrap.

A 6 year old shot a teacher. IS THAT ENOUGH!!!!!!?????? Prediction: No.

Sorry, I get emotional. I really can't handle living in this stupid ******* country much longer.

Last edited by mgidm86; 7th January 2023 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 7th January 2023, 05:04 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Jesus ******* Christ it's about the gun not the word "custody". Gawdam, yes police custody can mean they are sitting at a detectives desk, or an interview room drinking hot cocoa. Ever hear of protective custody? Custody does not mean arrested.

ITS THE GUN!!!!! This is one reason nothing changes. We don't ******* care
And the parents and how a child of that age pulls a gun and shoots a teacher. But 'custody' is not the issue.
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Old 7th January 2023, 05:06 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Are you serious? From the link in the OP.

“A 6-year-old boy was taken into police custody”.
And very likely immediately placed in the care of child services. Says as much in the very next line of the article.

(After he was printed and had his mug shot taken, of course )
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Old 7th January 2023, 05:17 PM   #20
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Got her in the shoulder.

Good shot, no?

As to the custody question, he should be returned to his parents, no?
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Old 7th January 2023, 07:46 PM   #21
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Hi Lionking, you may not have noticed, but many 'deaths in custody' occur outside of cells.

(For example if a person dies during an arrest, it's considered to be a 'death in custody'.)

A custody episode starts at the point that the person is under the control of the police, and doesn't end until they're either back on the street, or handed over to someone else's custody.
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Old 7th January 2023, 07:50 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
@lionking: Jesus ******* Christ it's about the gun not the word "custody". Gawdam, yes police custody can mean they are sitting at a detectives desk, or an interview room drinking hot cocoa. Ever hear of protective custody? Custody does not mean arrested.

ITS THE GUN!!!!! This is one reason nothing changes. We don't ******* care. We are too easily distracted by bullcrap.

A 6 year old shot a teacher. IS THAT ENOUGH!!!!!!?????? Prediction: No.

Sorry, I get emotional. I really can't handle living in this stupid ******* country much longer.
Who is “we”? Because I care how the child is detained. US police forces are not famous for compassionate treatment of people they have in custody. I will not apologise for being interested in the nature of this child’s custody arrangement. I would hope he is being supervised by welfare professionals and not some redneck cop.

And you would be better to direct you anger at the society that allows things like this to happen rather than me.
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Old 7th January 2023, 08:41 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
....

As to the custody question, he should be returned to his parents, no?
Not until a good assessment of the situation is made. Six yr olds don't typically steal a parent's gun and take it to school to shoot a teacher. Yes they get them out and accidentally kill someone but this was well out of an accident range.
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Old 7th January 2023, 08:45 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Not sure where else to post this.

6-year-old in custody after shooting teacher in Virginia, police chief says

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/06/us/ne...ing/index.html

To clarify, because I was wondering before I read it, a 6 year-old kid brought a gun to school, had an altercation with a teacher and the teacher was shot.
Wait a minute! A SIX-YEAR OLD! In custody?
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Old 7th January 2023, 08:48 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Wait a minute! A SIX-YEAR OLD! In custody?

Every six-year-old is in somebody's custody.
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Old 7th January 2023, 08:48 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Who is “we”? Because I care how the child is detained. US police forces are not famous for compassionate treatment of people they have in custody. I will not apologise for being interested in the nature of this child’s custody arrangement. I would hope he is being supervised by welfare professionals and not some redneck cop.

And you would be better to direct you anger at the society that allows things like this to happen rather than me.
Backpedal much?

Originally Posted by LK
Well that s what I would have thought, but it’s reported that the child is in custody. I didn’t think that a child under the age of criminal responsibility could even be detained.
Originally Posted by LK
Of course not. “In custody” usually means in a cell. I hope that isn’t the case for a 6 year old.
Originally Posted by SG
No it doesn't.
Originally Posted by LK
Are you serious? From the link in the OP.

“A 6-year-old boy was taken into police custody”.
etc

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 7th January 2023 at 08:50 PM.
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Old 7th January 2023, 08:50 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Every six-year-old is in somebody's custody.
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Old 7th January 2023, 09:00 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Backpedal much?








etc
Only in your imagination.
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Old 7th January 2023, 11:32 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
The child is surely well below the age of criminal responsibility, and that's as it should be.
As far as I can tell, based on an internet search, Virginia is one of 27 US states that does not have a minimum age for prosecuting children.

Which is not to say that the child will be prosecuted, just that is seems to be a legal gray area.

https://www.nga.org/publications/age...stice-systems/

A crime has clearly been committed. If the child is too young to prosecute, then I agree that responsibility must fall on the child's legal guardian(s) and whoever allowed the child access to the gun (likely the same person(s)).
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Old 8th January 2023, 12:12 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
As far as I can tell, based on an internet search, Virginia is one of 27 US states that does not have a minimum age for prosecuting children.

Which is not to say that the child will be prosecuted, just that is seems to be a legal gray area.

https://www.nga.org/publications/age...stice-systems/

A crime has clearly been committed. If the child is too young to prosecute, then I agree that responsibility must fall on the child's legal guardian(s) and whoever allowed the child access to the gun (likely the same person(s)).
I don't think those are mutually exclusive.

The parents should be prosecuted for their negligence, and the child may need to be prosecuted in juvenile court in order to mandate followup. For example if the child needs to be mandated to incarceration in a psych facility it could mean a court has to order it ... or not, depending on state law.
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Old 8th January 2023, 12:50 AM   #31
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We have very little information. We do not know if the gun belonged to the child's parents or was 'found'. We do not know the reason the gun was brought in, was it for 'show and tell', or because the child was being bullied. Perhaps the teacher tried to take the gun off the child and the gun went off. Perhaps the child tried to stand their ground (I don't know if Virginia has stand your ground legislation*). I think that hypothesising whether the child needs incarceration or psychiatric help or whether the parents were negligent should await some facts.

* This article suggests Virginia does not have such legislation.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2789154

Stand Your Ground laws in the United States may have resulted in an additional 700 homicides each year - an increase in monthly homicide rates of 11% nationally, but up to 28% in some states, according to a new study. While impacts vary from state to state, no state saw reductions in homicide following the introduction of SYG law, and southern states, including Alabama, Florida, Georgia and Louisiana, saw particularly large increases.
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Old 8th January 2023, 01:27 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
As far as I can tell, based on an internet search, Virginia is one of 27 US states that does not have a minimum age for prosecuting children.

Which is not to say that the child will be prosecuted, just that is seems to be a legal gray area.

https://www.nga.org/publications/age...stice-systems/

A crime has clearly been committed. If the child is too young to prosecute, then I agree that responsibility must fall on the child's legal guardian(s) and whoever allowed the child access to the gun (likely the same person(s)).
It would not surprise if Virginia throws the book at a six year old. Yes England threw the book at the children who murdered James Bulger, but those kids were 10 and it was murder.
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Old 8th January 2023, 01:34 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
As far as I can tell, based on an internet search, Virginia is one of 27 US states that does not have a minimum age for prosecuting children.
Damn. It's a shame the teacher didn't die in that case.

A six-year-old on death row would be peak America.
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Old 8th January 2023, 01:44 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Damn. It's a shame the teacher didn't die in that case.

A six-year-old on death row would be peak America.
How would hard labor work for a 6 year old?
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Old 8th January 2023, 03:22 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
Got her in the shoulder.

Good shot, no?

As to the custody question, he should be returned to his parents, no?
No.

A child got hold of a lethal weapon. Presumably from his parents' care.

That is good reason to believe that the kid's home is a dangerous environment.

If it was a house with bare wires and boxes of rat poison on the floors, it would also be right for social services to take custody until the safety has been assessed at least.
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Old 8th January 2023, 05:10 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
@lionking: Jesus ******* Christ it's about the gun not the word "custody". Gawdam, yes police custody can mean they are sitting at a detectives desk, or an interview room drinking hot cocoa. Ever hear of protective custody? Custody does not mean arrested.

ITS THE GUN!!!!! This is one reason nothing changes. We don't ******* care. We are too easily distracted by bullcrap.

A 6 year old shot a teacher. IS THAT ENOUGH!!!!!!?????? Prediction: No.

Sorry, I get emotional. I really can't handle living in this stupid ******* country much longer.
Well, it makes a change from "That's not a mass shooting!" or "No, it isn't an assault rifle!" or any of the other nitpicks which usually go on...
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Old 8th January 2023, 05:31 AM   #37
Nessie
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Are you serious? From the link in the OP.

“A 6-year-old boy was taken into police custody”.
In Scotland, a 6 year old taken into police custody does not mean they are now being held in a cell. It means they have been taken to a place of safety under emergency care, which is usually a foster or children's home and they are then in effect in the custody of the social work department.

From the original article "“The individual is a 6-year-old student,” Drew said. “We have been in contact with our commonwealth attorney and some other entities to help us best get services to this young man.” it would appear he got a ride in a police car to the station as other arrangements for his care were made.
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Old 8th January 2023, 05:41 AM   #38
Steve
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Who is “we”? Because I care how the child is detained. US police forces are not famous for compassionate treatment of people they have in custody. I will not apologise for being interested in the nature of this child’s custody arrangement. I would hope he is being supervised by welfare professionals and not some redneck cop.

And you would be better to direct you anger at the society that allows things like this to happen rather than me.
Then perhaps you should put more emphasis on this sentence:
"We have been in contact with our commonwealth attorney and some other entities to help us best get services to this young man."

And cut back over the feigned outrage about the use of the word "custody", which has much more nuance than you seem willing to concede.
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Old 8th January 2023, 05:52 AM   #39
angrysoba
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The time has come to ask the hard questions such as… how many doors did this school have?

Would a good child with a gun have stopped a bad one?

Is there a mental health crisis in America?

How can we push that to the agenda to distract from the problem of guns in society while also doing nothing about the problem we identify?

Is that a squirrel?
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Old 8th January 2023, 05:54 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Then perhaps you should put more emphasis on this sentence:
"We have been in contact with our commonwealth attorney and some other entities to help us best get services to this young man."

And cut back over the feigned outrage about the use of the word "custody", which has much more nuance than you seem willing to concede.
“Young man”? So they are prosecuting him as a man now?
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