IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 10th January 2023, 04:38 AM   #81
Rolfe
Adult human female
 
Rolfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 50,355
Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
I think it may be hard to know what a six year old child's intention were. In part because of how much they would really understand the consequences of any actions.

This reminds me of something I did when I was, I think, a little older than six.

I lived on a busy trunk road - the A71 in fact. There was a 30mph limit where I lived, but you could already see the end of speed limit sign not far past my house and traffic going over 30 was common. Not that I had figured any of that out at this point.

There was a lot of snow lying, and we kids were walking home and messing about after school. We started throwing snowballs at the cars. I noticed that the snowballs were all hitting the side windows, and figured that if I aimed in front of the car, by the time the snowball got to the car it would intersect with the windscreen.

I got it bang on first time. Literally. While the cars being hit on the side windows hadn't reacted at all, this car braked and swerved. The driver had obviously had a significant fright. So did I. I simply hadn't thought about the impact on the driver of a snowball hitting smack on the middle of the windscreen when he was going along about 40mph.

Fortunately the driver coped and there was no accident. I never threw anything at a car again, ever.
__________________
"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.
Rolfe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th January 2023, 03:10 PM   #82
mgidm86
Philosopher
 
mgidm86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,523
This thread is representative of how my country responds to gun violence. Even a 6 year-old shooter is only worth maybe 2 pages and change these days.

That is not a criticism to anyone here, I promise.

I'm just saying this story has dropped off the news radar and is just another statistic. I guess he needed to shoot more people to make a real statement. Ya sure who am I kidding?
mgidm86 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th January 2023, 06:55 PM   #83
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 44,925
Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
This reminds me of something I did when I was, I think, a little older than six.

I lived on a busy trunk road - the A71 in fact. There was a 30mph limit where I lived, but you could already see the end of speed limit sign not far past my house and traffic going over 30 was common. Not that I had figured any of that out at this point.

There was a lot of snow lying, and we kids were walking home and messing about after school. We started throwing snowballs at the cars. I noticed that the snowballs were all hitting the side windows, and figured that if I aimed in front of the car, by the time the snowball got to the car it would intersect with the windscreen.

I got it bang on first time. Literally. While the cars being hit on the side windows hadn't reacted at all, this car braked and swerved. The driver had obviously had a significant fright. So did I. I simply hadn't thought about the impact on the driver of a snowball hitting smack on the middle of the windscreen when he was going along about 40mph.

Fortunately the driver coped and there was no accident. I never threw anything at a car again, ever.
Let's not mention cars speeding where children are. One of my children was nearly run over by a car running a red.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
“Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th January 2023, 07:21 PM   #84
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 80,016
Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Let's not mention cars speeding where children are. One of my children was nearly run over by a car running a red.
What was your child doing on the road?
__________________
The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it.
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th January 2023, 07:25 PM   #85
Rolfe
Adult human female
 
Rolfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 50,355
Crossing on the green man, by the sound of it.
__________________
"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.
Rolfe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th January 2023, 07:51 PM   #86
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 80,016
Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Crossing on the green man, by the sound of it.
On reflection, that makes sense.
__________________
The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it.
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th January 2023, 09:28 PM   #87
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 22,898
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
What was your child doing on the road?
Crossing the road at a traffic light controlled pedestrian crossing?
__________________
What is Woke? It is a term that means "awakened to the needs of others". It means to be well-informed, thoughtful, compassionate, humble and kind. Woke people are keen to make the world a better, fairer place for everyone, But, unfortunately, it has also become a pejorative used by racists, homophobes and misogynists on the political right, to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th January 2023, 09:34 PM   #88
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 80,016
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Crossing the road at a traffic light controlled pedestrian crossing?
On reflection, that makes sense.
__________________
The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it.
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2023, 01:17 AM   #89
Gulliver Foyle
Graduate Poster
 
Gulliver Foyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Cork baaaiii
Posts: 1,021
Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
I think it may be hard to know what a six year old child's intention were. In part because of how much they would really understand the consequences of any actions.
Yeah, that's what I thought too. My mind boggled when I started hearing that the peelers were saying the shooting was deliberate. A six year old child doesn't have the emotional intelligence necessary to process the consequences of firing a gun at someone.
Gulliver Foyle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2023, 01:38 AM   #90
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 52,557
Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle View Post
Yeah, that's what I thought too. My mind boggled when I started hearing that the peelers were saying the shooting was deliberate. A six year old child doesn't have the emotional intelligence necessary to process the consequences of firing a gun at someone.
Exactly. I think the cops are doing all in their power to blame the child.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2023, 01:44 AM   #91
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 14,040
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Exactly. I think the cops are doing all in their power to blame the child.
I wonder if the child's parent is a cop
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2023, 01:45 AM   #92
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 52,557
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
I wonder if the child's parent is a cop
I think it would be reported if that was the case.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2023, 03:29 AM   #93
Samson
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 10,273
Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle View Post
Yeah, that's what I thought too. My mind boggled when I started hearing that the peelers were saying the shooting was deliberate. A six year old child doesn't have the emotional intelligence necessary to process the consequences of firing a gun at someone.
This is an outlier but of course a 6 year old knows what the gun is for.
Samson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2023, 03:50 AM   #94
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 44,925
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
This is an outlier but of course a 6 year old knows what the gun is for.
Not really. They only know a cartoon version of what guns do.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
“Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2023, 04:19 AM   #95
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 19,344
Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Not really. They only know a cartoon version of what guns do.
Given what's on TV in the US as a matter of course, that's doubtful.
__________________
"The only true paradise is paradise lost"
Marcel Proust
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2023, 04:24 AM   #96
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 52,557
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
This is an outlier but of course a 6 year old knows what the gun is for.
Utter nonsense.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2023, 04:31 AM   #97
Samson
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 10,273
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Utter nonsense.
This sounds like a pro forma response.
Samson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2023, 04:37 AM   #98
Ian Osborne
JREF Kid
Tagger
 
Ian Osborne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,608
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
This is an outlier but of course a 6 year old knows what the gun is for.
I'm inclined to agree. When I was that age, I was playing army games in the playground. Of course, after we'd been 'killed', we got up again afterwards. A six-year-old might understand what a gun is for, but the finality of pulling the trigger probably escapes them.
__________________
"Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine

"The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan
Ian Osborne is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2023, 05:01 AM   #99
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
Moderator
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 28,577
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
This is an outlier but of course a 6 year old knows what the gun is for.

Originally Posted by Ian Osborne View Post
I'm inclined to agree. When I was that age, I was playing army games in the playground. Of course, after we'd been 'killed', we got up again afterwards. A six-year-old might understand what a gun is for, but the finality of pulling the trigger probably escapes them.
Which is not what guns do. But a cartoon version.


Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Not really. They only know a cartoon version of what guns do.
Indeed. They might know that guns kill , but the idea that they might permanently maim someone is a different thing. Or indeed have an understanding of the consequences as opposed to "baddies get killed"



.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare
https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt

Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2023, 05:02 AM   #100
Carrot Flower King
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Northumberland, UK
Posts: 3,397
Originally Posted by Ian Osborne View Post
I'm inclined to agree. When I was that age, I was playing army games in the playground. Of course, after we'd been 'killed', we got up again afterwards. A six-year-old might understand what a gun is for, but the finality of pulling the trigger probably escapes them.
The whole issue of what a child/young person understands about death was a part of my work when doing overdose assessments, as it would help me decide just how scary someone was.

One of the scariest I met was a 14 year old who genuinely believed that death meant going to a heaven where everything they wanted, which nasty adults were currently preventing, would come to pass. This made death very desirable for them, hence they were very scary. A consultant colleague used to describe a 7 year old who was convinced that 1 anti-biotic would kill them (they'd had it hammered into them that this was mummy's very strong medicine and they shouldn't go anywhere near it).

What any given child actually understands about these topics needs to be considered on an individual basis and unpicked very carefully.
Carrot Flower King is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2023, 06:46 AM   #101
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 12,788
CNN reported on Tuesday:
Quote:
Police received the call that a teacher had been shot at 1:59 p.m., Drew said. When officers entered the classroom five minutes later, the boy was being physically restrained by a school employee, police said. He was combative and struck the employee restraining him. Officers escorted him from the building and into a police car. CNN link
Would a six-year-old understand it was wrong to strike an adult? If it's going to be argued, 'No, a six-year-old would not understand it is wrong to strike an adult,' that begs the question, 'What does a six-year-old understand?' Anything?

Is it wrong to run into traffic? Is it wrong to hit a dog with a hammer? Is it wrong to set fire to your house?

From a St. Louis TV station:
Quote:
Seven kids took part in the experiment at the 5 On Your Side studio. Our team used eight cameras, six microphones and six air-soft guns in this experiment. Our staff hid the air-soft guns in a room full of toys. The children played in the room while their parents watched them from a different room. The children were on camera, but they did not know it at the time...There were three kids in the second group. They ranged in age from 4- to 6-years-old. Their playtime in the room ended quickly. One of the kids found an airsoft gun right away. He put the gun down and another child ran from the room to get a parent. KSDK TV link*
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2023, 09:48 AM   #102
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 63,121
I feel like I had a pretty good grasp of right and wrong, by the time I reached first grade.

I beat a kid up - well, I pushed him down - for calling me rude names. I knew it was wrong, in the sense that physical violence is taboo, and that I'd get in trouble if the grown-ups found out. I also felt it was necessary, in the sense that it was worth the risk. Very much a case of being willing to do the time for the crime.

I think six year olds in general know right and wrong pretty well. They may still struggle with impulse control, and they may not always know all the nuances of what is expected and what is prohibited by society, and they may not always grasp the severity of certain crimes. But they know in general what crimes are and not to do them. Things like bringing a gun to school and shooting your teacher.
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2023, 10:13 AM   #103
Rolfe
Adult human female
 
Rolfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 50,355
This may not be a "six-year-old-in-general" though, depending on his home upbringing.
__________________
"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.
Rolfe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2023, 11:16 AM   #104
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
Moderator
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 28,577
Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
This may not be a "six-year-old-in-general" though, depending on his home upbringing.
Indeed, we know that he is a six year old who had access to loaded firearms at home.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare
https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt

Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2023, 11:39 AM   #105
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 63,121
Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
This may not be a "six-year-old-in-general" though, depending on his home upbringing.
I understood nyg's question to be a "six-year-old-in-general" question. It makes sense to wonder how far this particular six year old deviates from the norm, but it also makes sense to try to agree first on what the norm is.
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2023, 12:18 PM   #106
Bob001
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 16,343
Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
....
I'm just saying this story has dropped off the news radar and is just another statistic. I guess he needed to shoot more people to make a real statement. Ya sure who am I kidding?
It's dropped off the news radar because there's nothing new to report. The kid is not at large; he was taken into custody at the scene. He is too young to be charged criminally. His mother bought the gun legally; whether she can be charged with negligence is still being investigated. The teacher is recovering. What else is there to say?

But there is new reporting that security is being tightened at this elementary school, including the installation of metal detectors at all schools in the system.
https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news...hool-shooting/
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2023, 12:57 PM   #107
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 22,898
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
It's dropped off the news radar because there's nothing new to report. The kid is not at large; he was taken into custody at the scene. He is too young to be charged criminally. His mother bought the gun legally; whether she can be charged with negligence is still being investigated. The teacher is recovering. What else is there to say?

But there is new reporting that security is being tightened at this elementary school, including the installation of metal detectors at all schools in the system.
https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news...hool-shooting/
Nah. The kids will just bring Glock 17's to school!
__________________
What is Woke? It is a term that means "awakened to the needs of others". It means to be well-informed, thoughtful, compassionate, humble and kind. Woke people are keen to make the world a better, fairer place for everyone, But, unfortunately, it has also become a pejorative used by racists, homophobes and misogynists on the political right, to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2023, 08:46 PM   #108
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 12,788
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I feel like I had a pretty good grasp of right and wrong, by the time I reached first grade...
You're not the only one.



Remember this book?
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2023, 06:41 AM   #109
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 27,930
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
This is an outlier but of course a 6 year old knows what the gun is for.

No, just no. If I thought you were seriously interested I'd suggest you study up on child development and psychology.

At age 6 children are barely starting to think about the future and comprehend cause-and-effect relationships.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2023, 06:44 AM   #110
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 27,930
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
CNN reported on Tuesday:


Would a six-year-old understand it was wrong to strike an adult? If it's going to be argued, 'No, a six-year-old would not understand it is wrong to strike an adult,' that begs the question, 'What does a six-year-old understand?' Anything?

Is it wrong to run into traffic? Is it wrong to hit a dog with a hammer? Is it wrong to set fire to your house?
Try here, here, here and here.

Quote:
Most children by age 6:

Continue to have fears typical of the preschool years, such as fear of monsters, kidnappers, and large animals.
Want their parents to play with them. Parents are their main source of companionship and affection. A gradual shift begins, though, to fulfilling more of these needs with friends and other people they admire, such as teachers.
Play in ways that include a lot of fantasy and imagination.
Often like to be the "big kid" and feel as if they are taking care of a younger child.
Usually like to play with friends of the same gender. Boys most often play with other boys, girls most often play with other girls.
Start to understand the feelings of others, with the encouragement of parents and other caregivers. But they are still most focused on themselves.
Are developing a sense of humour. They may like simple jokes and funny books and rhymes.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2023, 02:49 PM   #111
mgidm86
Philosopher
 
mgidm86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,523
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
It's dropped off the news radar because there's nothing new to report. The kid is not at large; he was taken into custody at the scene. He is too young to be charged criminally. His mother bought the gun legally; whether she can be charged with negligence is still being investigated. The teacher is recovering. What else is there to say?

But there is new reporting that security is being tightened at this elementary school, including the installation of metal detectors at all schools in the system.
https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news...hool-shooting/

I guess I'm disappointed because, once again, this shooting won't change anything. I keep reading about actual civilized countries that react in horror to such shootings and agree to make changes as a country. Then I look at my country and hope that something, anything will make a difference, and it never does.

In fact, if this doesn't change how people feel then what will? Dozens of kids being shot at a school? Nope, been there already!

The news to me is that there should be plenty to report, but there isn't. What I should be seeing in the news is somebody giving any kind of a damn. Laws suggested, other gun owners maybe pissed off at the idiots who store guns this way. Anything.

I want to see reports on what is going to be done about this, screaming ******* headlines demanding action. I'd like to help but where and how?

Look, maybe there are headlines here and there. Mainly I'm just pissed off, ******* angry and worried as hell and I don't know what to do or say to make it better.

I guess I thought this shooting would be outrageous enough. I should know better though. That's all. Just a rant I guess.

Last edited by mgidm86; 14th January 2023 at 02:50 PM.
mgidm86 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2023, 02:47 AM   #112
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 36,006
Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I guess I thought this shooting would be outrageous enough. I should know better though. That's all. Just a rant I guess.
No matter how outrageous the shooting, the answer for gun lobby (and the GOP) is always going to be more guns.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2023, 02:05 PM   #113
mgidm86
Philosopher
 
mgidm86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,523
Hey we have made great strides in our understanding of gun violence:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/15/us/vi...aws/index.html
Quote:
Research shows child access prevention and safe storage laws are effective in reducing shootings among youth,
Finally we figured this one out! With "research" no less.

Quote:
“It’s important to frame the issue as not just keeping yourself and your family member safe in your home, but making sure that the guns you own don’t fall into the hands of people who shouldn’t have them....."
Gun Ownership 101 one would think.

Quote:
Many communities across the nation are familiar with the traumatic effects of school shootings,
No ******* ****, Sherlock. Who isn't?

Quote:
There are key differences between child access prevention laws and safe storage laws, and the provisions of each vary widely from state to state.
It's okay in many states not to secure your guns at all.

Quote:
“Very rarely are people actually held accountable when someone who is unauthorized, like a child, gains access to their firearms and uses them to harm themselves or someone else,” Crifasi explained. “It’s exceedingly rare to see people charged and punished in some way with fines or even jail time.”
Wow. This is never going to end.
mgidm86 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2023, 02:22 PM   #114
Bob001
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 16,343
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
No matter how outrageous the shooting, the answer for gun lobby (and the GOP) is always going to be more guns.
Well, imagine if the teacher had been packing her own heat. She at least would have had a chance.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st January 2023, 07:13 PM   #115
Bob001
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 16,343
If there's such a thing as a bad seed, this kid may be it.
Quote:
The Virginia teacher who was shot by a 6-year-old student repeatedly asked administrators for help with the boy but officials downplayed educators’ warnings about his behavior, including dismissing his threat to light a teacher on fire and watch her die, according to messages from teachers obtained by The Washington Post.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md...gs-downplayed/
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st January 2023, 08:19 PM   #116
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 19,578
Looks like this is an exceptionally troubled kid, not just some youngster who happened to find a gun. The local paper reports:

Quote:
On Thursday, the boy’s family issued its first public comments since the Jan. 6 shooting, expressing sympathy for 25-year-old teacher who was wounded and disclosing that the boy suffers from “an acute disability” and was under a specialized care plan at school.
Later:

Quote:
The family’s statement also disclosed the boy was under a care plan in which his parents attended school with him. But on Jan. 6 — the day the boy suddenly shot his teacher in the middle of class — the parents were not at the school.

“The week of the shooting was the first week when we were not in class with him,” the family’s statement said. “We will regret our absence on this day for the rest of our lives.”
Italics added for emphasis--that's a pretty startling care plan.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd January 2023, 01:06 AM   #117
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 36,006
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Looks like this is an exceptionally troubled kid, not just some youngster who happened to find a gun. The local paper reports:



Later:



Italics added for emphasis--that's a pretty startling care plan.
You'd think that given that care plan, they'd have made a greater effort to secure their weapons around him.

I'd be interested to get the school's view of how well they think the parents were adhering to the plan.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd January 2023, 04:01 AM   #118
Planigale
Philosopher
 
Planigale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: 49 North
Posts: 5,812
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
You'd think that given that care plan, they'd have made a greater effort to secure their weapons around him.

I'd be interested to get the school's view of how well they think the parents were adhering to the plan.
The article says the guns secured with a trigger lock and on a high shelf that should be out of easy reach of a sx year old.

The management plan was apparently successful as the article says the parents accompanying the child has stopped that week.

I say apparently because obviously it wasn't.
Planigale is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd January 2023, 07:45 AM   #119
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 106,908
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Looks like this is an exceptionally troubled kid, not just some youngster who happened to find a gun.

...snip....
You mean he came across it when walking to school or it was in the bottom of his locker?

Sorry but he didn't happen to find a gun, his parents left a (loaded) gun where a 6 year old could get his hands on it and they didn't even know he had it

Whether a 6 year old is angel or devil that is beyond negligence. They are not fit parents.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd January 2023, 08:09 AM   #120
Ian Osborne
JREF Kid
Tagger
 
Ian Osborne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,608
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
They are not fit parents.
Nor are they fit gun owners, but America doesn't seem to care about that.
__________________
"Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine

"The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan
Ian Osborne is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:47 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.