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Old 24th January 2023, 10:29 AM   #1
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First on CNN: Classified documents found at Pence’s Indiana home

First on CNN: Classified documents found at Pence’s Indiana home

Quote:
Washington
CNN

A lawyer for former Vice President Mike Pence discovered about a dozen documents marked as classified at Pence’s Indiana home last week, and he has turned those classified records over to the FBI, multiple sources familiar with the matter told CNN.

The FBI and the Justice Department’s National Security Division have launched a review of the documents and how they ended up in Pence’s house in Indiana.

The classified documents were discovered at Pence’s new home in Carmel, Indiana, by a lawyer for Pence in the wake of the revelations about classified material discovered in President Joe Biden’s private office and residence, the sources said. The discovery comes after Pence has repeatedly said he did not have any classified documents in his possession.
They're EVERYWHERE!!! Even Grant's Tomb is full of classified Civil War documents!
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Old 24th January 2023, 10:35 AM   #2
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He'll have to resign, obviously.
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Old 24th January 2023, 10:35 AM   #3
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I think they need to declare a 'emergency' and have everyone in the government who has daily contact with classified material to do a detail search and then institute a system to track everything that gets classified with a ID numbers and create a system to keep track of all documents at all times. I did so when an I was an S-2 in the army to deal with classified documents we dealt with. The register kept track of who and or where the document came from, who read it and when it was destroyed, or where it was.
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Old 24th January 2023, 10:37 AM   #4
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Everywhere!

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Old 24th January 2023, 10:40 AM   #5
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Of course, CNN will now spend several days constantly talking about this and nothing else.
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Old 24th January 2023, 10:43 AM   #6
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I so want to know what is in those docs, and what is in Biden's docs. So far we have very little to go on as to why these docs end up in boxes of records POTUSes and Veeps have at home or at their offices.

We have some idea of what's in the docs Trump took home—things that look very bad for him selling or sharing those secrets for favors. From the money flowing to the Trumps from the Saudis it's hard not to make that connection. And he's obsessed with Macron for some reason. IMO there's no doubt he wants to keep his communication with Kim secret because we might find out they weren't "love letters".

Any ideas what might be in confidential papers Veeps take home?

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Old 24th January 2023, 10:48 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I so want to know what is in those docs, and what is in Biden's docs. So far we have very little to go on as to why these docs end up in boxes of records POTUSes and Veeps have at home or at their offices.

We have some idea of what's in the docs Trump took home—things that look very bad for him selling or sharing those secrets for favors. From the money flowing to the Trumps from the Saudis it's hard not to make that connection. And he's obsessed with Macron for some reason. IMO there's no doubt he wants to keep his communication with Kim secret because we might find out they weren't "love letters".

Any ideas what might be in confidential papers Veeps take home?
Chinese menus, TV schedules, reminders not to speak at cabinet meetings.
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Old 24th January 2023, 10:53 AM   #8
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Wouldn't it be more efficient to simply incarcerate every office holder upon election?
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Old 24th January 2023, 10:54 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I so want to know what is in those docs, and what is in Biden's docs. So far we have very little to go on as to why these docs end up in boxes of records POTUSes and Veeps have at home or at their offices.

We have some idea of what's in the docs Trump took home—things that look very bad for him selling or sharing those secrets for favors. From the money flowing to the Trumps from the Saudis it's hard not to make that connection. And he's obsessed with Macron for some reason. IMO there's no doubt he wants to keep his communication with Kim secret because we might find out they weren't "love letters".

Any ideas what might be in confidential papers Veeps take home?
We are never really going to find out. The documents are still classified, just because they were poorly handled doesn't mean they are available for public consumption.

This has all been sort of eye-opening. I always thought that documents like that were handled better, but apparently they are treated just like any other documents, and mistakes happen.

But it seems pretty clear that SOP is that if you find a classified document in your possessions that should not be there, you are supposed to notify the National Archives to have them recovered, not move them around to keep them hidden.
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Old 24th January 2023, 10:57 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
We are never really going to find out. The documents are still classified, just because they were poorly handled doesn't mean they are available for public consumption.

This has all been sort of eye-opening. I always thought that documents like that were handled better, but apparently they are treated just like any other documents, and mistakes happen.

But it seems pretty clear that SOP is that if you find a classified document in your possessions that should not be there, you are supposed to notify the National Archives to have them recovered, not move them around to keep them hidden.
I bet if looked into you will find that the reason they aren't kept better is that the big-wigs think the rules shouldn't apply to them.
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Old 24th January 2023, 11:07 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
We are never really going to find out. The documents are still classified, just because they were poorly handled doesn't mean they are available for public consumption.....
That doesn't mean we can't know the subject matter.
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Old 24th January 2023, 11:29 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That doesn't mean we can't know the subject matter.
Actually it does.
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Old 24th January 2023, 12:06 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Of course, CNN will now spend several days constantly talking about this and nothing else.
I'm pretty sure there's a sarcasm tag there I'm missing, right? CNN will give it half a day, then return to breathlessly reporting on last weeks' Biden docs.
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Old 24th January 2023, 12:21 PM   #14
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I'm pretty sure all these documents are just printouts of Hillary's emails, and she's been planting them everywhere to discredit her enemies.
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Old 24th January 2023, 12:22 PM   #15
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In fairness it's Mike Pence. He probably just classified pictures of women with their ankles showing as "Top Secret Totally Don't Look It I'm Super Serious Guys."
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Old 24th January 2023, 12:24 PM   #16
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Amazon order confirmations for bamboo ballot stock.
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Old 24th January 2023, 12:53 PM   #17
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It's obvious that the process for keeping track of these kinds of documents is seriously in need of improvement. What is also obvious is that how Trump handled the situation is vastly different from how Biden and Pence handled/are handling it.

I wonder if we'll hear from Conyers and other GOP politicians about how awful it is finding confidential documents at Pence's home?
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Old 24th January 2023, 12:56 PM   #18
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I mean yeah at this point "Hey let's break out the old 'Handling Classified Documents Guidebook' and give the once over because SOMETHING isn't working right" is I hope at least on the table.

Trolls acting like this in anyway absolves Trump is as inevitable as the tide but just as useful to listen to.
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Old 24th January 2023, 01:02 PM   #19
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More proof of why none of the complex conspiracy theories make sense.

Nobody in Government is competent enough to do even the simple tasks without eventual public mess-ups.
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Old 24th January 2023, 01:03 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
In fairness it's Mike Pence. He probably just classified pictures of women with their ankles showing as "Top Secret Totally Don't Look It I'm Super Serious Guys."
Ha!
The guilt of hoarding classified spy ankles had him hire pricey lawyers to look for him!

*Actually, I think all of these documents are super invisible to normal people.
Only a lawyer $hired$ to look in someone's den or office, or garage- or an FBI agent, can find 'misplaced' or 'lost' classified documents.
Politicians, or house staff, or contractors, or wives, can never ever find them on their own.

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Old 24th January 2023, 01:10 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Ha!
The guilt of hoarding classified spy ankles had him hire pricey lawyers to look for him!

*Actually, I think all of these documents are super invisible to normal people.
Only a lawyer $hired$ to look in someone's den or office, or garage- or an FBI agent, can find 'misplaced' or 'lost' classified documents.
Politicians, or house staff, or contractors, or wives, can never ever find them on their own.
When Biden's first documents were found, I remember a legal commenter saying that "widows" had found confidential documents at their homes and returned them to the archives. I think it's often the case that they've been packed away in boxes for years that no one looks in until there's some sort of clean out.

LOL... talk about timing...that's exactly what Evan Perez is saying just now on CNN.

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Old 24th January 2023, 01:13 PM   #22
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Do you know how many times I've had a VIP user steamroll their way through security policy and best practice to get some device/application/access that they "needed" right away? Well-documented policies that I had to refer to when any user puts in such requests.

Imagine some file clerk finding out some document was requested by the President or Vice President that isn't supposed to leave the archive/White House/SCIF ? How exactly do you think that conversation goes?
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Old 24th January 2023, 01:14 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
We are never really going to find out. The documents are still classified, just because they were poorly handled doesn't mean they are available for public consumption.
I have a secret clearance; I doubt that I would be able to use that as a defense if classified documents were found improperly stored at my home.

Right now I think it is a safe bet that many current or former politicians have classified documents improperly stored at their residence. This will continue to be the norm until the law is actually enforced.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1924
Quote:
(a) Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.
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Old 24th January 2023, 01:26 PM   #24
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Maybe it's just the cold weather talking, but I'm wondering if secret documents have special properties that cause them to make for excellent insulation. That would explain why everybody keeps storing them in odd places.
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Old 24th January 2023, 01:28 PM   #25
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Shredded secret documents might make for good insulation.

ETA; Yes it would. https://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/...-zmaz77ndzgoe/

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Old 24th January 2023, 01:54 PM   #26
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This is beginning to sound like a fairly common oversight. Obviously there is some kind of long-term, systemic failure here when it comes to proper control of confidential documents that pass over the president's and VP's desks.

It seems common sense to me that these materials should be getting logged - maybe not by name, but with some kind of numbering scheme at the very least, and that some kind of custodian or librarian should be keeping track of the materials' status. Maybe such a log is kept, but nobody follows through on checking it to make sure the materials are accounted for, especially near the end of a president's term.

I could easily see some movers packing up a soon-to-be-former-president's office seeing a folder marked "Secret", thinking to themselves "nope, not my business" and just shoveling it into a box with handfuls of other folders and documents, and not mentioning it to anyone because they don't want to be accused of paying "too much attention". Perhaps someone should be supervising packing more closely, or movers should be trained more specifically on what classified materials look like and that they should not pack them, but should set them aside - perhaps into a dedicated bin - and inform some appropriate official. Transition teams need to have access to the outgoing president/VP's home(s) and alternate offices so they can collect classified materials that have ended up there over the course of their term.
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Old 24th January 2023, 02:02 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Maybe it's just the cold weather talking, but I'm wondering if secret documents have special properties that cause them to make for excellent insulation. That would explain why everybody keeps storing them in odd places.
I can speak from experience that bags of shredded documents make excellent pillows when catching a nap on a duty day.
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Old 24th January 2023, 02:06 PM   #28
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Also I'll be that guy.

It's 2023. Why are these physical documents?

I get it it's unreasonable to expect the President to just never go to his actual real not-White House home for 4-8 years. The office sorta deserves the benefit of a "Home Office" by why not just give him a Classified Terminal? They exist, trust me I know.

That way when the President isn't the President you can just... take the terminal.

Why are these stories making it sound like every Ex-President and Vice-President is going into his study, pouring himself a glass of brandy and lighting up a nice cigar, leaning back in an Eames Lounge Chair and reading stacks of classified paper documents?
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Old 24th January 2023, 02:08 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Also I'll be that guy.

It's 2023. Why are these physical documents?

I get it it's unreasonable to expect the President to just never go to his actual real not-White House home for 4-8 years. The office sorta deserves the benefit of a "Home Office" by why not just give him a Classified Terminal? They exist, trust me I know.

That way when the President isn't the President you can just... take the terminal.

Why are these stories making it sound like every Ex-President and Vice-President is going into his study, pouring himself a glass of brandy and lighting up a nice cigar, leaning back in an Eames Lounge Chair and reading stacks of classified paper documents?
Because we keep getting presidents who are in their nineties? You work in healthcare IT, I know you know of older doctors who get their secretary to print out emails for them to read.
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Old 24th January 2023, 02:21 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Because we keep getting presidents who are in their nineties? You work in healthcare IT, I know you know of older doctors who get their secretary to print out emails for them to read.
My old boss would print off memes to put on my desk and he was in his 40s. He also handled a lot of sensitive material.
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Old 24th January 2023, 03:10 PM   #31
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I've worked in the military intelligence field for many years. There is just no good excuse for politicians to be taking classified documents to their homes. A CNN host stated the other day that this happens "all the time." I don't know about that, but I bet it happens far more often that it should.
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Old 24th January 2023, 03:41 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by mikegriffith1 View Post
I've worked in the military intelligence field for many years. There is just no good excuse for politicians to be taking classified documents to their homes. A CNN host stated the other day that this happens "all the time." I don't know about that, but I bet it happens far more often that it should.
I'd say that's pretty apparent since we're talking about 3 different government officials having classified documents. At least at the VPOTUS and POTUS level it would appear more people have to pay attention.
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Old 24th January 2023, 04:21 PM   #33
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Don't fret, folks! George Santos has kept TONS of secret documents from when HE was president last time, and has them all stashed in his Long Island mansion(s).
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Old 24th January 2023, 05:12 PM   #34
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I always thought the Classified Document Fairy was just a made up story my parents told to get me to clean up my bedroom. Now I'm starting to think a supernatural entity really does leave classified documents around to get people in trouble.
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Old 24th January 2023, 05:18 PM   #35
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I wonder if I should search my own house for classified documents. I've never had a government job or anything, but apparently these things are just everywhere. Some might have seeped in during all that rain last month.
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Old 24th January 2023, 05:41 PM   #36
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I heard that if you have two confidential documents and don't keep them separated, they'll breed like mice. I suspect this why Trump had so many confidential documents; he only took two and they produced hundreds more in the basement.

On the other hand, I've also heard a confidential document can reproduce by itself by 'budding' akin to what jellyfish can do. It's not as efficient as regular breeding, so I suspect this is why there are much fewer in Biden's and Pence's case.
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Old 24th January 2023, 06:11 PM   #37
angrysoba
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I so want to know what is in those docs, and what is in Biden's docs. …
Any ideas what might be in confidential papers Veeps take home?
That’s classified!
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Old 24th January 2023, 06:25 PM   #38
Norman Alexander
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Perhaps it might be easier to discover who DOESN'T have secret documents...
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Old 24th January 2023, 06:38 PM   #39
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Actually it does.
No it ******* doesn't or else how do we know what category of documents Trump stole?
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Old 24th January 2023, 07:20 PM   #40
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