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Old 6th December 2018, 07:46 AM   #161
MicahJava
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Want to quote the section of Northwoods that specifies "crisis actors?"
Stage funerals for mock victims.
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Old 6th December 2018, 07:48 AM   #162
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Actual crisis actor conspiracies have existed. Operation Northwoods in 1967 and George W. Bush in 2003. That alone proves that potentially harmful conspiracy theories should have special protection under law.
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Old 6th December 2018, 07:49 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Stage funerals for mock victims.
As opposed to the real victims that you want to torture in camps.

Dave
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Old 6th December 2018, 07:50 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Actual crisis actor conspiracies have existed. Operation Northwoods in 1967 and George W. Bush in 2003. That alone proves that potentially harmful conspiracy theories should have special protection under law.
And people who dispute them should be tortured. Got it.

Dave
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 6th December 2018, 07:51 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Actual crisis actor conspiracies have existed. Operation Northwoods in 1967 and George W. Bush in 2003. That alone proves that potentially harmful conspiracy theories should have special protection under law.
No, conspiracy theories should have no "special protection".

There are already special protections for those who would expose actual conspiracies, and other laws to help unravel them. Things like the Whistleblower Act and RICO laws.

The unfounded speculation of the untrained and ignorant should not be given any special protection against the harm they do to reasonable members of society.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:37 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Actual crisis actor conspiracies have existed. Operation Northwoods in 1967 and George W. Bush in 2003. That alone proves that potentially harmful conspiracy theories should have special protection under law.
[Hypothetically awful and emotionally draining label] exist. That alone proves that me calling you [hypothetically awful and emotionally draining label] should have special protection under the law.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:37 AM   #167
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The ones who see their hero sued are the only ones butthurt here.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:41 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Stage funerals for mock victims.
I was a crisis actor for three years. Neither I nor anyone I know has ever done anything like that because that's not what crisis actors do.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:43 AM   #169
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I'm not sure if there's a more basic or distilled slippery slope strawman then the whole faux-hand wringing over "If we start telling people who are wrong to shut up, how will we keep people who are right from being told to shut up?"

Anyone who demands we hairsplit that by definition almost certainly doesn't think the "wrong" person being silenced is really wrong.
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Old 6th December 2018, 11:02 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I would rather see the Sandy Hook parents tortured in camps than have them partially responsible for removing a sliver of freedom. Freedom is more important than butthurt. Always has been, no matter what. People just don't care about freedom anymore. Now in France the're trying to censor conspiracy theories all together.

Ooh, what a patriot! "Freedom is worth any amount of someone else's suffering!"
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Old 6th December 2018, 11:30 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Actual crisis actor conspiracies have existed. Operation Northwoods in 1967 and George W. Bush in 2003. That alone proves that potentially harmful conspiracy theories should have special protection under law.
This is a lie.

Northwoods listed a number of options that included killing real people. It was not a conspiracy, it was a PROPOSAL.

Northwoods was set on the Kennedy NSC agenda in 1962, not 1967, a fact easily verified, and adds to you deepening lack of credibility.

We didn't need a false flag to invade Iraq. Every missile fired from Iraqi anti-aircraft batteries was a violation of the ceasefire agreement they signed.
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Old 6th December 2018, 11:34 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Actual crisis actor conspiracies have existed. Operation Northwoods in 1967 and George W. Bush in 2003. That alone proves that potentially harmful conspiracy theories should have special protection under law.
I still want to know if you think I should be allowed the freedom of speech to publish my book:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=142
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Old 6th December 2018, 12:02 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Northwoods listed a number of options that included killing real people.
Actually, even that isn't true. The original proposal suggested false flag terrorist attacks on the property of expatriate Cubans in the US, possibly up to the level of physical injuries to some individuals. Nowhere in the document does it suggest a single actual death.

Dave
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Old 6th December 2018, 12:03 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
This is a lie.

Northwoods listed a number of options that included killing real people. It was not a conspiracy, it was a PROPOSAL.

Northwoods was set on the Kennedy NSC agenda in 1962, not 1967, a fact easily verified, and adds to you deepening lack of credibility.

We didn't need a false flag to invade Iraq. Every missile fired from Iraqi anti-aircraft batteries was a violation of the ceasefire agreement they signed.

If by the hilted you mean that friendly or neutral deaths were contemplated in some scenarios, that's incorrect. However, some enemy (Cuban military) deaths were contemplated.
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Old 6th December 2018, 12:14 PM   #175
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In 1809, when Thomas Charlton wrote a biography of Maj. Gen James Jackson (veteran of the American Revolutionary War) he wrote that Jackson believed "the price of liberty is eternal vigilance.", he wasn't just talking about 'the people' being watchful of their government, he was also speaking of being watchful of those who would subvert freedom by making false accusations of impropriety against Governments.

Also, at least in America, there is a common misconception that the First Amendment grants everyone an absolute right to free speech; that it gives everyone the right to say whatever they please with no consequences. This simply is not true. What 1A does is grant the right to free speech without interference from the Government. Judge Oliver Wendell Holmes held that the right to freedom of speech is not absolute.... In Schenck v. United States {249 U.S. 47 (1919)}, Holmes wrote "The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic."

What that stinking pile of crap Alex Jones has been saying about Sandy Hook and the parents of the children murdered there, is false, and has now been shown to be dangerous in that it has incited others to make threats of violence the lives of those parents.

Good on those parents for standing up for their rights to not be accused of lying and of participating in a conspiracy....

I hope Alex Jones is made to prove his accusations in front of a judge, and when he can't,
I hope the judge recognizes the damage he has done, and makes an example of him.
I would like to see a finding against Jones in the order of $millions.
I'd like to see both his website (which is used for nothing other than the spreading of malicious lies and blatant falsehoods) taken down permanently.

Alex Jones is a worthless piece of lying scum who does not deserve any kind of platform on which to spew his vile invective.
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Old 6th December 2018, 12:18 PM   #176
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the real problem here is that jones is still allowed to say whatever he wants.
he has only been denied private venues in which to do so.
he has also chosen, of his own free will, to stop spouting sandy hook nonsense as far as I know.
so where is the freedom of speech issue against the government here (which is all the first amendment covers as has been mentioned already)?
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Old 6th December 2018, 12:34 PM   #177
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Still, we've learned a lot about MicahJava as a result. I'll remember, when reading all MJ's future posts, that MJ is in favour of imprisoning and torturing bereaved parents.

Dave
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Old 6th December 2018, 03:06 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Actually, even that isn't true. The original proposal suggested false flag terrorist attacks on the property of expatriate Cubans in the US, possibly up to the level of physical injuries to some individuals. Nowhere in the document does it suggest a single actual death.

Dave
At the top of page 9 they suggest sinking (real or staged) a boat full of Cuban refugees:

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf

Obviously the reason this one never left the launch pad was because of the risk. If someone dies in the process of your staged attack it is a capitol offense for everyone involved.

The rest of the memo details a fake Mig attack using a dressed up F-86, and shooting down a passenger plane that is a drone full of fake people who never board it (this is where the 9-11 Truth morons got this idea).

What cracks me up is that this came out of an NSC Spitball session as part of Operation Mongoose, which featured a lot of crazy ideas that where discussed, and a few even attempted.

It's dumb because if you look at history the more questionable events (Vietnam, the consolidation of power by Hitler after the Reichstag Fire, the 2003 invasion of Iraq, The Spanish American War, and a long list of others) were all cases where forces took advantage of an event, and spun it in their favor to justify whatever they did next.

Which brings me back to the OP.

Show me where the law has been passed that bans the AR-15. Show me that list of tougher gun laws at the federal level. Sandy Hook was six years ago, what changed? Alex Jones has every right to make money off of stupid people. CTists are too dumb to have money anyway, but there are lines he can't cross, just like the rest of us.

No America has the right to yell fire in a crowded theater. No American has the right to incite a riot. In the case of Sandy Hook Alex Jones did both. He can rot for it too.
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Old 6th December 2018, 06:15 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Actually, even that isn't true. The original proposal suggested false flag terrorist attacks on the property of expatriate Cubans in the US, possibly up to the level of physical injuries to some individuals. Nowhere in the document does it suggest a single actual death.

Dave
That's a lot of typing for you to have forgotten the infamous line "Conduct funerals for mock-victims".
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Old 6th December 2018, 06:36 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
That's a lot of typing for you to have forgotten the infamous line "Conduct funerals for mock-victims".
He also left out the part where it's no big deal because it was just one of a dozen proposals generated by the Kennedy Administration to justify an invasion of Cuba.

You can't base a point of view on something that never happened, only on the things that actually took place.

The fact that you are pulling your usual antics in a thread about the parents of murdered children is not lost on any of us.
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Old 6th December 2018, 06:52 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
That's a lot of typing for you to have forgotten the infamous line "Conduct funerals for mock-victims".
Which also doesn't require anyone to have actually been killed. There's no need for anyone to have actually died in order to conduct a fake funeral for someone who wasn't actually a victim, which is what "mock-victim" means.

But we're all used to you making stuff up like this when reality doesn't live up to your fantasies.

Dave
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Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 6th December 2018, 06:53 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
The fact that you are pulling your usual antics in a thread about the parents of murdered children whom you would like to see locked up and tortured is not lost on any of us.
FTFY. Let's not forget what sort of person we're dealing with here.

Dave
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:10 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
FTFY. Let's not forget what sort of person we're dealing with here.

Dave
Actually, it has been somewhat revealing.

Axxman and I, and a couple of others, have run into this poster in JFK/RFK threads. I can't speak for Axxman or the others, but for me, his postings here have thrown some of the crap he has posted in those other threads into a new light.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:22 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Actually, it has been somewhat revealing.

Axxman and I, and a couple of others, have run into this poster in JFK/RFK threads. I can't speak for Axxman or the others, but for me, his postings here have thrown some of the crap he has posted in those other threads into a new light.
About every 25th post we'll get some melodramatic statement about how MJ is just trying to cast light on the evils of the United States, and those who ridicule are somehow cruel, evil doers, shills, or sheep. MJ is all about justice and freedom as long as the justice resembles the Stalinist courts, and Freedom is for a chosen few.

In this case, somehow Alex Jones is some purveyor of truth, and because of this he is somehow exempt from the laws of justice. The Sandy Hook parents are evil people who must suffer because they dared to voice a political opinion about gun ownership after the murder of their children at the hands of someone who should not have had access to a gun of any kind, in a state with some of the toughest gun laws in the country.

It's okay for Jones to claim that:

The moon lands were fake

Michelle Obama is a man

Jenifer Lopez should be raped

Alec Baldwin should be murdered

The Pentagon has a bomb filled with chemicals to turn people into homosexuals, and has already started to turn frogs gay

Reptilians from outer space are taking over the world with the help of Satanists

The US Government controls the weather can causes tornadoes at will

This is the man MJ defends. Meanwhile, the grieving parents of very real and very dead children should be tortured in prison camps because they dared to have a political opinion based on their new tragic reality.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:47 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
The ones who see their hero sued are the only ones butthurt here.
True and it is deserved fully. And you misspelled ^zero^ there!!!!!
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Old 6th December 2018, 11:32 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
The ones who see their hero sued are the only ones butthurt here.
Only fools believe in happy mediums.
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Old 7th December 2018, 02:23 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Only fools believe in happy mediums.
And only the loathsome believe in torturing bereaved parents in the name of freedom.

Dave
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Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 7th December 2018, 07:01 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Actually, it has been somewhat revealing.

Axxman and I, and a couple of others, have run into this poster in JFK/RFK threads. I can't speak for Axxman or the others, but for me, his postings here have thrown some of the crap he has posted in those other threads into a new light.
much like the flea does, it's just hardcore trolling.
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Old 7th December 2018, 07:13 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by Tinfoil Hater View Post
Alex Jones is a absolute scumbag. If he believes the conspiracy, he's mentally ill. If its just for ratings he's callously using people who are suffering and causing them more suffering
The latter for sure. He gets off on it.
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Old 7th December 2018, 07:15 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Only fools believe in happy mediums.
Hi there.

I'm sure you've just missed my questions, so I've put them below for your convenience.

Any chance of an answer?



Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Are you a politician? None of what you've written answers my question.

Should I be allowed to tell all of my friends and yours that you indulge in illegal and reprehensible activity? Am I at liberty to run round telling the world about it and maybe publish a book entitled "MicahJava's Illegal and Reprehensible Activity all over the Western Hemisphere"? (Read about the remarkable interaction with Thai 'ladies', marvel at the the wonder of what he can do with three balloons and a peanut. "A work of unparalleled truth" Alex Jones)





Yes, but am I allowed to publish my book? Or would you restrict my freedom to do so?
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Dude! Can I publish my book?
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I still want to know if you think I should be allowed the freedom of speech to publish my book:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=142
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Old 7th December 2018, 07:16 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
And only the loathsome believe in torturing bereaved parents in the name of freedom.

Dave
I go more for wretched putrid slime eater, but ………… (and that is only because I don't wish to run afoul of the lack of fully free speech in these parts).
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Old 7th December 2018, 07:24 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Stage funerals for mock victims.
Wrong.

Quote the section.
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Old 7th December 2018, 07:29 AM   #193
BStrong
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Originally Posted by 332nd View Post
I was a crisis actor for three years. Neither I nor anyone I know has ever done anything like that because that's not what crisis actors do.
I've been a crisis actor in different scenarios and roles several times. It was part of POST CPE.
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Old 7th December 2018, 07:40 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm not sure if there's a more basic or distilled slippery slope strawman then the whole faux-hand wringing over "If we start telling people who are wrong to shut up, how will we keep people who are right from being told to shut up?"


Okay, I've got a wild idea here, but roll with me. How about, we have some kind of pubic examination, during which both sides can advocate for their position, and then a select panel of impartial, disinterested people render a decision as to which party is telling the truth, and should be allowed to continue, and which is lying, and has to shut up?

I mean, I know this flies in the face of every decision-making process our society has ever used, but I think it just might work....
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Old 7th December 2018, 01:49 PM   #195
Dr. Keith
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Okay, I've got a wild idea here, but roll with me. How about, we have some kind of pubic examination, during which both sides can advocate for their position, and then a select panel of impartial, disinterested people render a decision as to which party is telling the truth, and should be allowed to continue, and which is lying, and has to shut up?

I mean, I know this flies in the face of every decision-making process our society has ever used, but I think it just might work....
And how do you propose gathering together a panel of impartial, disinterested people?

Are you just going to pick some random list of residents, like maybe a driver's license database, and send out postcards inviting folks to show up? I mean you would have to have hundreds of invites just to put together one panel of people who are truly impartial and disinterested. Then you would have to pay people for parking on some sort of per diem basis. You would have to have special rooms for these panels to sit in while the parties present their arguments to them.

I mean it sounds like a huge waste of money, a boondoggle on the highest order if you ask me.
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Old 7th December 2018, 02:38 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I mean it sounds like a huge waste of money, a boondoggle on the highest order if you ask me.
I could be wrong, but I believe that Horatius was describing our civil court system, albeit sarcastically.

On the bright side, the drivers license database does indeed fill the jury pool. So maybe you two actually agree on aspects of the boondoggle?

ETA - Oh geez, you were being sarcastic too. The postcards = jury summons. I'll go find my brain and turn it on now.

Last edited by carlitos; 7th December 2018 at 02:39 PM. Reason: broken sarcasm detector
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Old 7th December 2018, 02:53 PM   #197
Dr. Keith
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I could be wrong, but I believe that Horatius was describing our civil court system, albeit sarcastically.

On the bright side, the drivers license database does indeed fill the jury pool. So maybe you two actually agree on aspects of the boondoggle?

ETA - Oh geez, you were being sarcastic too. The postcards = jury summons. I'll go find my brain and turn it on now.
Watching that dawn on you has just made my day! Seriously, it's rainy and cold here.

Thank you so much for not just wiping the post clean. I owe you one.
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Old 7th December 2018, 03:03 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Still, we've learned a lot about MicahJava as a result. I'll remember, when reading all MJ's future posts, that MJ is in favour of imprisoning and torturing bereaved parents.

Dave
Yeah, somebody sure outed themselves as a member of the Tin Foil Hat brigade.
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Old 7th December 2018, 03:04 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I would rather see the Sandy Hook parents tortured in camps than have them partially responsible for removing a sliver of freedom. Freedom is more important than butthurt. Always has been, no matter what. People just don't care about freedom anymore. Now in France the're trying to censor conspiracy theories all together.

Actual crisis actor conspiracies have been conceived of before (1967 Operation Northwoods memo and the Bush-Blair 2003 Memo), so it's not like the conspiracy theorists started it. Plus, people wouldn't be so quick to judge them if they were aware of the true war-mongering nature of the U.S. for the last sixty years, and would especially become more sympathetic to the crazier crowd if they were aware of all the evidence surrounding the assassinations of the 60's. Conspiracy watchdogs are important in society because conspiracies happen. Besides, Alex Jones is technically more innocent than almost all mainstream media entities because he called BS on the Iraq war from the very beginning, an Iraq was a pointless mass murder that cost 1.5 million+ lives.

Who here wants their freedom of speech to be decided by a committee of Kyle's mom from South Park? Because there's no argument that that's what we're going to get.
We are talking about civil damages for slander and libel. Given the nature of the harm he's inflicted on the bereaved parents, and the fact that in his child custody case, he's admitted it's an act, we can be sure Jones knew his allegations were untrue.

He was spreading malicious lies for personal profit and the civil remedy is appropriate.

He was also responsible for inciting violence against the parents.

Freedom from the state is pointless if it simply allows non-state actors to persecute you.
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Old 7th December 2018, 03:43 PM   #200
dudalb
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SOmepeople just don't get the difference between criminal/statue law and civil law. That you can do things that are not offenses against criminal or statute law, but lleave you open for civil damages.
As has been stated time and time again, Freedom of Speech..at least in the US..does not mean freedom of condquences from what you say. It just means you cannot, except in very,very limited cases, be prosecuted by the government for speech.
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