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#81 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,521
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I think we all do, just like we all hope for a negative medical test. But your analogy then falls apart. We don't all agree what the correct verdict is. I hope he is found guilt of defamation, because I believe he has defamed people who have suffered damages from his defmation.
Also, I'm going to go investigate if Vegas is taking bets on this case. Jones is going to lose, I'd bet money on it given decent odds. ETA: strike that the case is in Texas, not Conneticut as I assumed. |
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#82 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,700
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#83 |
NWO Kitty Wrangler
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 26,831
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Yes, if you're going to "hope for" something, you should be hoping for an accurate judgement (or test result). If he's guilty, he should pay up, if you're sick, you want to know it so you can get treatment. But Jones vs. the truth is less "I hope I don't actually have cancer" and more "I hope that isn't actually a knife sticking out of my chest". The problem is so clearly obvious to an unbiased observer that "hoping" it isn't defamation/a knife in your chest is ridiculous. If you're not a Sandy Hook Truther, basically the only way Jones wins this case is if the judge rules that the victims are public persons, and as such, it's okay to defame them. And that's not an outcome any reasonable person should be "hoping" for. |
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Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd |
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#84 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,232
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One would think the hope would be that the right verdict is delivered whichever way it goes, no? you seem to have a problem admitting that if they were defamed and Jones is found guilty, that would be the 'right verdict' since you insist on stating only that Jones be found not guilty would be the 'right verdict'. you keep dancing around that. I don't think you are alex jones so your medical analogy fails. you have no skin in the game. |
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#85 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,700
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#86 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,700
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#87 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,700
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My skin is a general interest of not liking to see people harmed by others. They were likely harmed by Jones (an opinion I try to avoid sharing because I don't think it is appropriate to share judgements, but it feels necessary at this point). I would really like to find out I was wrong about that and they were not harmed.
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#88 |
NWO Kitty Wrangler
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 26,831
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But both of those are objectively hugely unlikely. We're not talking about something he might say in the future, we're talking about things he has already said, over the course of years. There's no way he can claim to be ignorant of the refutations of the "crisis actor" claims, so he must have been lying (absent a claim of actual insanity on his part, a claim he has steadfastly denied for years as well), or at least aware of the possibility that it was a lie (leading to the issue of malice - he didn't care about the truth either way, so long as it played to his narrative). And their reputations have been harmed, at least in so far as actual people have already been convicted for actually issuing actual death threats to the victims of Sandy Hook. Now, you could quibble about how much their reputations have been damaged, but the damage exists. |
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Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd |
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#89 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,232
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#90 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,700
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#91 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,232
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but this is not about cancer or emotions. it's about a legal proceeding.
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#92 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,700
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#93 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 19,983
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True, it means that you hope for things that we already know are not true
We do know that Sandy Hook happened We do know that Alex Jones has claimed it was staged and has accused the parents of being actors We do know that some of the parents have been threatened Your hope has to be that one of those is untrue. |
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OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending |
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#94 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1,872
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#95 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,191
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#96 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,191
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#97 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,700
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#98 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 3,583
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They have a case. The first part of a defamation case is providing documentation of Jones making the statement(s), and that won't be a problem. The trick is documenting the damage to the victims, which will mostly be emotional pain. Can they show they've lost work time? Have they been forced into extended therapy due to the false statements? Can they show permanent psychological damage?
I'm betting in this case - yes. https://injury.findlaw.com/torts-and...he-basics.html http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/...n-lawsuit.html |
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Disingenuous Piranha |
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#99 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,700
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I don't understand how the first article explicitly says it hurt reputation, and brought up missing work. Is there only work time lost by reputation or emotional distress? If you skipped work because of distress, but no one at work cared because it didn't affect your reputation, is that harm for purposes of defamation?
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#100 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 42,491
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In a civil suit like this one, almost none.In the US, people do not go to jail when they lose a civil case.
Only way this happens is if Jones does something really stupid during the trial, and gets tossed in the slammer for "contempt of court" or fails to obey a court order. . And even that technically is a different offense then his defamaing the Sandy Hook victims. |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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#101 |
Mafia Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 19,576
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As to the last, there's even a woman behind bars for issuing death threats.
How far is Alex Jones' divorce case? Have the assets already been divided? I hope so, otherwise he'll only suffer half the damage. |
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"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf "I think accuracy is important" - Vixen |
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#102 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 42,491
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You know, it's ironic that people get suspended or kicked off the site for some pretty minor offenses, but a guy who constanly hijacks and disrupts threads get away scot free.
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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#103 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,700
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#104 |
Evil Fokker
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,914
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If the defamation leads to people harassing you, leaving death threats, and constantly barraging you with disgusting attacks the stress may be enough to cause you to miss work or have other health issues. I understand you personally might be too unempathetic to understand that, but the courts may decide otherwise.
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#105 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#106 |
Mafia Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 19,576
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"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf "I think accuracy is important" - Vixen |
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#107 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,700
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#108 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 3,583
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Disingenuous Piranha |
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#109 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#110 |
Rotten to the Core
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,874
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What's this thread about again?
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All You Need Is Love. |
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#111 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 15,983
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- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC |
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#112 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#113 |
Illuminator
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Location: Central California Coast
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Disingenuous Piranha |
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#114 |
Cythraul Enfys
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 57,992
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There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!! |
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#115 |
Cythraul Enfys
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 57,992
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There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!! |
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#116 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#117 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 3,583
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I'd love to see Jones broke and out of his line of work.
The First Amendment make's Info Wars possible. All anyone has to do is preface any wacko charge with the word "Allegedly", and they're free to say whatever they wish. This comes from case law where accusations were made on air and in print that cost someone a lot of money. That's why you'll hear or read the words in cases where guilt is obvious because it avoids legal problems down the road. The other escape words are "Hypothetically, and "In my opinion". The flip-side is that there are legitimate reasons to allow this. Watergate is an example of the legitimate use of "Allegedly" to advance investigating journalism |
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Disingenuous Piranha |
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#118 |
Graduate Poster
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#119 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) |
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#120 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16,304
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Actually, it is a judgement that you don't have the desease. For if you left open the possibility, and you have the desease, then you would welcome a positive result, for it would set you on course toward proper treatment, which a false negative would not.
If already have enough information to assume you have the desease, such that a negative test result would more likely be a false negative, you will want a positive result. |
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) |
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