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Tags assassinations , Kennedy conspiracies , RFK assassination , Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

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Old 30th May 2018, 11:12 AM   #81
Axxman300
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
I claim he once more realized that the CIA was out of control. A criminal organization committing ongoing crimes against the US constitution, democracy and against humanity. He fired its leadership after the Bay of Pigs but soon realized that the cancer was deeply rooted and had metastasized through out both the military and civil society.
Nope. JFK expanded the CIA in many areas including domestic surveillance, which included attempted manipulation of the news and print medias.

RFK ran the CIA's Mongoose operations directly.

Quote:
They assassinated him before he had the chance to root it out once and for all.
Nope. Oswald got lucky.

Quote:
JFK was the last US president who served the American people, not the US Security State = the permanent War State = the Oligarchy = the Hidden Government = US Gangster State = US Military Industrial Complex = The Belt Way Gravy Train = The New World Order = ...
Your grasp of history is lacking.

JFK enacted no laws from his personal agenda in the three years he was President. The record shows that he was the least productive as far as legislation in concerned. Part of this stems from his barely winning office, he didn't feel like he had a mandate to do much. That's why he didn't stop the Bay of Pigs. He was an inspiring speaker, and looked good on TV, and knew how to bluff the Russians, but that was it.
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Old 30th May 2018, 11:19 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
The world leading expertise has explained that Sirhan was showing all known signs of post hypnotic suggestion when arrested at the Ambassador Hotel, and still does 40 years later. He was a victim of unvoluntary mind control including hypnosis, drugs and brain washing in the months preceding the assassination. Probably in connection to the CIA MKUltra project.
Proof?

Quote:
Sirhan is exeptionally easy to hypnotize according to all expertise reviewing his case and/or testing him on site.
Proof?

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The stated reason for not granting him parole have since 1985 been that he doesn’t own up to what he have done and therefore can’t be released to society.
Quote:
The decision Wednesday came after Sirhan answered questions from the California parole panel for about three hours in a small, windowless conference room.

Commissioners said Sirhan did not show adequate remorse or understand the enormity of his crime.
*source: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...210-story.html *

He is mentally ill, probably has been for a long time, and should be institutionalized.

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In spite of this, Sirhan insist that he can’t remember what happened before or during the event and therefore can not explain what he did and why he did it.
See above.

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That is, he would have been a free man for the last 20 years if he had ’played ball’. He is still in jail. 40 years later still counting.
Well yeah, he shot RFK, we take that kind of thing seriously here in California.

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His case is now under review by OAS for crimes against Sirhans human rights.
Because Cuba has a sense of humor.
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Old 30th May 2018, 12:32 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
US Security State = the permanent War State = the Oligarchy = the Hidden Government = US Gangster State = US Military Industrial Complex = The Belt Way Gravy Train = The New World Order = ...
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Old 30th May 2018, 12:43 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
”Apparently realized his role in the process”. What ”role” did he have in what ”process”?

I claim he once more realized that the CIA was out of control. A criminal organization committing ongoing crimes against the US constitution, democracy and against humanity. He fired its leadership after the Bay of Pigs but soon realized that the cancer was deeply rooted and had metastasized through out both the military and civil society.

They assassinated him before he had the chance to root it out once and for all.

JFK was the last US president who served the American people, not the US Security State = the permanent War State = the Oligarchy = the Hidden Government = US Gangster State = US Military Industrial Complex = The Belt Way Gravy Train = The New World Order = ...

Call it what you want. It’s in power, sucking the life blood of everything it touch upon. Sooner or later.

Furious back-pedalling noted!
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Old 30th May 2018, 01:15 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Furious back-pedalling noted!
This is how you argue when the ”scientific skeptic”-label is just a disguise.

Busted.
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Old 30th May 2018, 01:34 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Yes. The mammoth in the livingroom.
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Old 30th May 2018, 02:29 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
Yes. The mammoth in the livingroom.
Get serious, carlitos was sarcastically enumerating all those "organizations". But perhaps you were being sarcastic also?
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Old 30th May 2018, 03:42 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
Get serious, carlitos was sarcastically enumerating all those "organizations". But perhaps you were being sarcastic also?
Enumerate with a smiley? What ”organizations”?

What are you talking about?
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Old 30th May 2018, 03:44 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Because Cuba has a sense of humor.
The whole island?
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Old 30th May 2018, 03:46 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
Ballistics from the weapon taken from Sirhan.
Does it? Show me.
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Old 30th May 2018, 03:50 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
Does it? Show me.
Look it up.
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Old 30th May 2018, 03:52 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
Look it up.
Lol.
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Old 30th May 2018, 03:58 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Nope. JFK expanded the CIA in many areas including domestic surveillance, which included attempted manipulation of the news and print medias.
In secret using the CIA in manipulating the media? Show me.

Quote:
RFK ran the CIA's Mongoose operations directly.
No. RFK was one of four in the Special Group Augmented which was created by the president to oversee all Cuban operations after the CIA’s betrail of his trust during the Bay of Pigs fiasco. The operative chief of Operation Mongoose was CIA’s ”General” Edward Lansdale.

Quote:
Nope. Oswald got lucky.
....

Quote:
Your grasp of history is lacking.
Coming from you? Lol.

Quote:
JFK enacted no laws from his personal agenda in the three years he was President. The record shows that he was the least productive as far as legislation in concerned. Part of this stems from his barely winning office, he didn't feel like he had a mandate to do much. That's why he didn't stop the Bay of Pigs. He was an inspiring speaker, and looked good on TV, and knew how to bluff the Russians, but that was it.
Lol.

Last edited by manifesto; 30th May 2018 at 04:01 PM.
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Old 30th May 2018, 04:00 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
Lol.
Exactly what I would expect, now look it up and we can discuss.
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Old 30th May 2018, 04:02 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
JFK was the last US president who served the American people, not the US Security State = the permanent War State = the Oligarchy = the Hidden Government = US Gangster State = US Military Industrial Complex = The Belt Way Gravy Train = The New World Order = ...
= The Order Of The Templar Knights = Freemasons = Gaymafia = "Them" = "They" = Shape shifting lizards = Barack Saddam Osama Barry Hussein Bin Laden Soetoro Obama, the half Indonesian, half Kenyian actor = The KKKlinton Killer Family = Killary KKKlinton = Bengazi = 9/11 = Jade Helm 15 =FEMA Death Camps = fake moonlandings = Evil NASA = Fake Holocaust = The inventor of the wheel being a stage actor, hired by some Stone Age MIB's = Transhumanism = Illuminati = Kyoon revealing Patrick Stewart being the leader of The Illuminati.

Looking at this ****, would reveal that 90 % of the planet is in league of a seriously vast conspiracy aka a unified Conspiracy.

This is not how the world works!!!!!!
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Old 30th May 2018, 04:05 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by tinribmancer View Post
= The Order Of The Templar Knights = Freemasons = Gaymafia = "Them" = "They" = Shape shifting lizards = Barack Saddam Osama Barry Hussein Bin Laden Soetoro Obama, the half Indonesian, half Kenyian actor = The KKKlinton Killer Family = Killary KKKlinton = Bengazi = 9/11 = Jade Helm 15 =FEMA Death Camps = fake moonlandings = Evil NASA = Fake Holocaust = The inventor of the wheel being a stage actor, hired by some Stone Age MIB's = Transhumanism = Illuminati = Kyoon revealing Patrick Stewart being the leader of The Illuminati.

Looking at this ****, would reveal that 90 % of the planet is in league of a seriously vast conspiracy aka a unified Conspiracy.

This is not how the world works!!!!!!
It is ONE entity with many names.

The Permanent US Security/War State, is maybe the most accurat one.

Last edited by manifesto; 30th May 2018 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 30th May 2018, 04:10 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by tinribmancer View Post
= The Order Of The Templar Knights = Freemasons = Gaymafia = "Them" = "They" = Shape shifting lizards = Barack Saddam Osama Barry Hussein Bin Laden Soetoro Obama, the half Indonesian, half Kenyian actor = The KKKlinton Killer Family = Killary KKKlinton = Bengazi = 9/11 = Jade Helm 15 =FEMA Death Camps = fake moonlandings = Evil NASA = Fake Holocaust = The inventor of the wheel being a stage actor, hired by some Stone Age MIB's = Transhumanism = Illuminati = Kyoon revealing Patrick Stewart being the leader of The Illuminati.

Looking at this ****, would reveal that 90 % of the planet is in league of a seriously vast conspiracy aka a unified Conspiracy.

This is not how the world works!!!!!!
"Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory"? GUCT could be a handy acronym to cover those CTs that posit virtually everyone is in on it, and that everything we've been told is a lie.

Last edited by Pope130; 30th May 2018 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 30th May 2018, 04:15 PM   #98
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The beast with many names. Sounds familiar.
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Old 30th May 2018, 04:40 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
JFK was the last US president who served the American people, not the US Security State = the permanent War State = the Oligarchy = the Hidden Government = US Gangster State = US Military Industrial Complex = The Belt Way Gravy Train = The New World Order = ...
Originally Posted by tinribmancer View Post
= The Order Of The Templar Knights = Freemasons = Gaymafia = "Them" = "They" = Shape shifting lizards = Barack Saddam Osama Barry Hussein Bin Laden Soetoro Obama, the half Indonesian, half Kenyian actor = The KKKlinton Killer Family = Killary KKKlinton = Bengazi = 9/11 = Jade Helm 15 =FEMA Death Camps = fake moonlandings = Evil NASA = Fake Holocaust = The inventor of the wheel being a stage actor, hired by some Stone Age MIB's = Transhumanism = Illuminati = Kyoon revealing Patrick Stewart being the leader of The Illuminati.

Looking at this ****, would reveal that 90 % of the planet is in league of a seriously vast conspiracy aka a unified Conspiracy.

This is not how the world works!!!!!!
You forgot = The Men's Room at Grand Central Station.

The strategy meetings for this conspiracy must take up the world's largest convention center, and by the time everyone's had their say all the events they are planning will have been bypassed.

Originally Posted by Pope130 View Post
"Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory"? GUCT could be a handy acronym to cover those CTs that posit virtually everyone is in on it, and that everything we've been told is a lie.
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Old 30th May 2018, 04:44 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
I find it insane that people are still arguing about who killed the Kennedys when after all it was you and me Mick Jagger recorded an audio confession in 1968.

(Maybe because he accused his fans of being in on it as well? How many of you were named unindicted co-conspirators? Don't all raise your hands at once.)
I was eight years old when JFK was killed. I was twelve when RFK was killed. I was in Colorado during both assassinations. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. I don't know who Mick Jagger was referencing as "you" in "you and me", but it wasn't me. You can't pin this one on me, Mick.
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Old 30th May 2018, 04:51 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
The beast with many names. Sounds familiar.
Why did Ike Eisenhower warn the American people of the ”military-industrial complex” in his farwell speach? He was a general and a war hero, not what you call a ”CT”. An insider if there ever was one.

A ”CT”?
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Old 30th May 2018, 04:55 PM   #102
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For someone who likes to accuse non-believers in his conspiracy theories of not living in the real world, I find manifesto's naive belief that the Kennedys were some kind of saints amusing. They were politicians. JFK especially was a cold warrior, and the process that led to the Vietnam war was well underway during his presidency. Of course, there is no way of knowing if he was smart enough to avoid the disastrous decisions made by LBJ had he survived, but my guess is that he would not have. While I don't think the Kennedys were more evil than other politicians of that era, I don't see any reason to think they were less so. The Soviets certainly weren't playing nice, and it seems that the Kennedys felt that we couldn't afford to play nice either. They were likely right about that.

As for Vietnam, Johnson took the worse course possible. He took us to war, but did so in a manner that gave us no chance of winning. Far better to have avoided the war
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Old 30th May 2018, 04:55 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
I was eight years old when JFK was killed. I was twelve when RFK was killed. I was in Colorado during both assassinations. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. I don't know who Mick Jagger was referencing as "you" in "you and me", but it wasn't me. You can't pin this one on me, Mick.
No one is accusing you of taking part in the assassinations. I’m accusing you of willfully taking part in the ongoing cover up. That makes you an accessory after the fact.

Or immensely ignorant.
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Old 30th May 2018, 05:34 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
In secret using the CIA in manipulating the media? Show me.
I linked to it and quoted it in another thread. I showed you, you derped it.


Quote:
No. RFK was one of four in the Special Group Augmented which was created by the president to oversee all Cuban operations after the CIA’s betrail of his trust during the Bay of Pigs fiasco. The operative chief of Operation Mongoose was CIA’s ”General” Edward Lansdale.
RFK ran it.
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Old 30th May 2018, 05:46 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
For someone who likes to accuse non-believers in his conspiracy theories of not living in the real world, I find manifesto's naive belief that the Kennedys were some kind of saints amusing.
Not a saint. A decent man who tried to do good for all Americans and for the downtrodden in the post colonial world.

Quote:
They were politicians. JFK especially was a cold warrior,
No, he was not. He runned his campaign as a cold warrior because that was the only way he could beat cold warrior Richard Nixon.

When in power, he showed his real ideology and vision which runned contrary to the whole cold war National Security establisment in Washington, Wall Street and Langley. Look at his track record. Diplomacy, not armed conflict. Every time.

Quote:
and the process that led to the Vietnam war was well underway during his presidency.
No. He had already ordered the beginning of the unconditional withdrawal of all American advisers (ca 15 000) when assassinated in Dallas nov 22. 1000 before the end of 1963. An additional 5000 before the end of 1964. The rest before the end of 1965. If he got reelected. It is a myth that LBJ just continued with JFK’s agenda and policies when acted as he did as his usurper. It’s on tape that he didn’t (1.08): https://youtu.be/myWfWk1IQrw

Quote:
Of course, there is no way of knowing if he was smart enough to avoid the disastrous decisions made by LBJ had he survived, but my guess is that he would not have.
Why do you ”guess” against all evidence? The order for a complete withdrawal was unconditional and LBJ him self attests to this in his conversation with McNamara three months after the assassination. He KNEW that he reversed JFK’s agenda 180˚ when conditioning the US withdrawal on a South Vietnamese victory before that could happen. He did more than that, he lied to Congress and the rest of the world about the Tonkin incident as a false pretext for a full scale American invasion, 1965.

Quote:
While I don't think the Kennedys were more evil than other politicians of that era, I don't see any reason to think they were less so.
Compare JFK with LBJ, Nixon, the Bushes ... the only one who can stand up to JFK is FDR, in spite of him lying to the American people about the Japanese ”surprise attack” on Pearl Harbor. He and the top military brass knew it was coming that day and time, sacrifying 3000 American sailors. At least, that was a necessary war for a good cause.

Quote:
The Soviets certainly weren't playing nice, and it seems that the Kennedys felt that we couldn't afford to play nice either. They were likely right about that.
JFK was a fervent anti communist, no doubt about that. That said, he had a completely different vision of how to best stem the tide (if there was a tide), than the chicken hawks in US National Security State. A third way. Not totalitarian communism. Not proxy right wing military dictatorship. A third way. Peaceful aid and coopration. Carrots not sticks. Win win.

He was well on his way doing just that.

Quote:
As for Vietnam, Johnson took the worse course possible. He took us to war, but did so in a manner that gave us no chance of winning. Far better to have avoided the war
He wasn’t supposed to win that or any other war. He was supposed to provide his buddies in the armaments industry with big fat government contracts making them even more wealthy at the expence of the US people and 3 million innocent South East Asians. On which he and later Tricky Dick dropped millions of tons of bombs, Agent Orange and burning napalm raining from the sky. Day in and day out for almost a decade.

$$$$$$$$$$$$ .....

What makes you think even in your wildest fantasies that JFK had done the same? His track record? Hardly.

What?
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Old 30th May 2018, 06:20 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
No, he was not. He runned his campaign as a cold warrior because that was the only way he could beat cold warrior Richard Nixon.
Gullible. He was hardcore Cold War.


Quote:
When in power, he showed his real ideology and vision which runned contrary to the whole cold war National Security establisment in Washington, Wall Street and Langley. Look at his track record. Diplomacy, not armed conflict. Every time.
He was expanding the size of the military, giving it a covert wing, and expanded the role of the CIA.

He cut taxes to help the wealthy who helped get him elected under the guise of economic stimulus.

Quote:
No. He had already ordered the beginning of the unconditional withdrawal of all American advisers (ca 15 000) when assassinated in Dallas nov 22. 1000 before the end of 1963. An additional 5000 before the end of 1964. The rest before the end of 1965
The assassination of Diem changed all that. JFK checkmated himself in Vietnam.

Quote:
He did more than that, he lied to Congress and the rest of the world about the Tonkin incident as a false pretext for a full scale American invasion, 1965.
Except that reporters talked to the crew of the Maddox and it was reported that the Gulf of Tonkin Incident was blown out of proportion. Congress didn't care, and they gave him his war.

Quote:
Compare JFK with LBJ, Nixon, the Bushes ... the only one who can stand up to JFK is FDR, in spite of him lying to the American people about the Japanese ”surprise attack” on Pearl Harbor. He and the top military brass knew it was coming that day and time, sacrifying 3000 American sailors. At least, that was a necessary war for a good cause.
Is there any anti-American conspiracy theory you won't swallow whole without question?

Quote:
JFK was a fervent anti communist, no doubt about that. That said, he had a completely different vision of how to best stem the tide (if there was a tide), than the chicken hawks in US National Security State. A third way. Not totalitarian communism.
The only people who use the phrase "National Security State" are Neo Nazis. <snip>

Quote:
Not proxy right wing military dictatorship.
Except installing the Baath Party in Iraq.

Quote:
A third way. Peaceful aid and coopration. Carrots not sticks. Win win.
With a huge military force behind him.


Quote:
On which he and later Tricky Dick dropped millions of tons of bombs, Agent Orange and burning napalm raining from the sky. Day in and day out for almost a decade.
Nixon was elected in 1968, the last US combat forces withdrew from Vietnam in February, 1973. That's less than 5 years, not a decade even using Swedish math.


Edited by Loss Leader:  Edited for Rules 0/12.
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Old 30th May 2018, 06:59 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
Compare JFK with LBJ, Nixon, the Bushes ... the only one who can stand up to JFK is FDR, in spite of him lying to the American people about the Japanese ”surprise attack” on Pearl Harbor. He and the top military brass knew it was coming that day and time, sacrifying 3000 American sailors. At least, that was a necessary war for a good cause.
It's unfortunate that Gawdzilla has left the board. The last time anyone claimed this he got his theories dismembered. Why don't you tell us what is your proof that "he and the top military brass knew it was coming that day and time"?

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Old 30th May 2018, 10:25 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post

Is there any anti-American conspiracy theory you won't swallow whole without question?
It would seem that way. I often wonder about (if Manifesto is American) why such a person is not in an armed rebellion if he thinks everything in America is run by a murderous criminal conspiracy. AND he's telling everyone about their plans and they do nothing about it...... Puzzling.....lol
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Old 31st May 2018, 04:00 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
Not a saint. A decent man who tried to do good for all Americans and for the downtrodden in the post colonial world.

No, he was not. He runned his campaign as a cold warrior because that was the only way he could beat cold warrior Richard Nixon.

When in power, he showed his real ideology and vision which runned contrary to the whole cold war National Security establisment in Washington, Wall Street and Langley. Look at his track record. Diplomacy, not armed conflict. Every time.

No. He had already ordered the beginning of the unconditional withdrawal of all American advisers (ca 15 000) when assassinated in Dallas nov 22. 1000 before the end of 1963. An additional 5000 before the end of 1964. The rest before the end of 1965. If he got reelected. It is a myth that LBJ just continued with JFK’s agenda and policies when acted as he did as his usurper. It’s on tape that he didn’t (1.08): https://youtu.be/myWfWk1IQrw

Why do you ”guess” against all evidence? The order for a complete withdrawal was unconditional and LBJ him self attests to this in his conversation with McNamara three months after the assassination. He KNEW that he reversed JFK’s agenda 180˚ when conditioning the US withdrawal on a South Vietnamese victory before that could happen. He did more than that, he lied to Congress and the rest of the world about the Tonkin incident as a false pretext for a full scale American invasion, 1965.

Compare JFK with LBJ, Nixon, the Bushes ... the only one who can stand up to JFK is FDR, in spite of him lying to the American people about the Japanese ”surprise attack” on Pearl Harbor. He and the top military brass knew it was coming that day and time, sacrifying 3000 American sailors. At least, that was a necessary war for a good cause.

JFK was a fervent anti communist, no doubt about that. That said, he had a completely different vision of how to best stem the tide (if there was a tide), than the chicken hawks in US National Security State. A third way. Not totalitarian communism. Not proxy right wing military dictatorship. A third way. Peaceful aid and coopration. Carrots not sticks. Win win.

He was well on his way doing just that.

He wasn’t supposed to win that or any other war. He was supposed to provide his buddies in the armaments industry with big fat government contracts making them even more wealthy at the expence of the US people and 3 million innocent South East Asians. On which he and later Tricky Dick dropped millions of tons of bombs, Agent Orange and burning napalm raining from the sky. Day in and day out for almost a decade.

$$$$$$$$$$$$ .....

What makes you think even in your wildest fantasies that JFK had done the same? His track record? Hardly.

What?
Stupid, overlaid with ludicrous, with layers of moronic, piled up with with a large topping of nincompoopery, and a side order of senseless.
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Old 31st May 2018, 07:09 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Stupid, overlaid with ludicrous, with layers of moronic, piled up with with a large topping of nincompoopery, and a side order of senseless.
Well, coming from you, thank you. I guess that is why you are not responding with a detailed attempt at refuting my contentions?

Because you can’t?
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Old 31st May 2018, 07:17 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
It would seem that way. I often wonder about (if Manifesto is American) why such a person is not in an armed rebellion if he thinks everything in America is run by a murderous criminal conspiracy. AND he's telling everyone about their plans and they do nothing about it...... Puzzling.....lol
I’m not American, but have American relatives who have mostly the same view of the US National Security State as I have.

USA ≠ US National Security State.

Lets hope that it not have to come to an armed revolution. That the American people can reclaim its country, restore the constitution and ban legalized beltway corruption in other ways.

Taking back the power stolen from them by the top one percent of the top one percent, without open armed revolution.

Hope.

Last edited by manifesto; 31st May 2018 at 07:23 AM.
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Old 31st May 2018, 07:21 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Major Major View Post
It's unfortunate that Gawdzilla has left the board. The last time anyone claimed this he got his theories dismembered. Why don't you tell us what is your proof that "he and the top military brass knew it was coming that day and time"?

Is there a thread on this topic? If so, I’ll post the proof in due time. Of course they knew that the Japanese would attack Pearl Harbor that very day. They had broken the Japanese codes long before that happened.

Like reading from an open book. Prime time.

Last edited by manifesto; 31st May 2018 at 07:23 AM.
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Old 31st May 2018, 09:35 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
No one is accusing you of taking part in the assassinations. I’m accusing you of willfully taking part in the ongoing cover up. That makes you an accessory after the fact.

Or immensely ignorant.
Well, there you go- CT as ideology (veering into religion), along with the test for ideological purity, that anyone who disagrees with it must be part of it or just plain ignorant. McCarthy would have been proud...

Gotta admit, I'm a little disappointed (though I can't say totally surprised). I mean, you seem like an intelligent person with a pretty good command of the material; and I thought it was pretty upright of you when you admitted you weren't right about something (Lodge being the only one who knew where Diem and his brother were hiding). I've no idea how old you are, but haven't you learned yet that intelligent people can look at the same facts as you and come to different conclusions from them? (Channeling old Abe there a little, I think)


And the sneering at someone who disagrees with you as, essentially, "no true skeptic" is also silly. Skepticism begins at home, meaning you start with questioning your own conclusions before starting on anyone else's. Every time you demand that people "cite the relevant parts. Explain. Argue for its veracity," and follow it with "I neither can or should do it for you," you miss the point of skepticism by a mile- that you need to read the cites in their entireties for yourself. Otherwise, you look like the creationist or flat-earther who cringes from confronting the whole of the evidence against their ideas because that whole threatens them. Nobody but you can test your ideas for yourself- only you know what it would take to admit to yourself error.
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Old 31st May 2018, 09:45 AM   #114
Hans
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
Lets hope that it not have to come to an armed revolution. That the American people can reclaim its country, restore the constitution and ban legalized beltway corruption in other ways.

Taking back the power stolen from them by the top one percent of the top one percent, without open armed revolution.
So your 'plan' or hope is that in some magical way the conspiracy you believe exists and which kills Presidents and other politicians and makes billions doing this and that will just throw up it hands, say sorry and do what exactly?

The political power in the US has always been moreso in the hands of the powerful than the weak. I believe you will find that trying to construct some from of 'de-powering of money' will run afoul of freedom of speech and creative slide of hand. If completely removed this would mean that very rich people would be able to garner power even further as poorer people would be unable to obtain enough money to run for office.

So why are you alive and uncensored by the way?
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Old 31st May 2018, 09:49 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
And the sneering at someone who disagrees with you as, essentially, "no true skeptic" is also silly. Skepticism begins at home, meaning you start with questioning your own conclusions before starting on anyone else's. Every time you demand that people "cite the relevant parts. Explain. Argue for its veracity," and follow it with "I neither can or should do it for you," you miss the point of skepticism by a mile- that you need to read the cites in their entireties for yourself. Otherwise, you look like the creationist or flat-earther who cringes from confronting the whole of the evidence against their ideas because that whole threatens them. Nobody but you can test your ideas for yourself- only you know what it would take to admit to yourself error.
Well said. I deal with Archaeology CT all the time and for them the elephant in the room is always the concept of consilience (also convergence of evidence or concordance of evidence) is their mind killer. They of course ignore it and try to focus on trivia and 'opinions' and especially the tyranny of 'possibilities'.
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Old 31st May 2018, 09:53 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Well, there you go- CT Debunking as ideology (veering into religion), along with the test for ideological purity, that anyone who disagrees with it must be part of it or just plain ignorant. McCarthy would have been proud...

Gotta admit, I'm a little disappointed (though I can't say totally surprised). I mean, you seem like an intelligent person with a pretty good command of the material; and I thought it was pretty upright of you when you admitted you weren't right about something (Lodge being the only one who knew where Diem and his brother were hiding). I've no idea how old you are, but haven't you learned yet that intelligent people can look at the same facts as you and come to different conclusions from them? (Channeling old Abe there a little, I think)


And the sneering at someone who disagrees with you as, essentially, "no true skeptic" is also silly. Skepticism begins at home, meaning you start with questioning your own conclusions before starting on anyone else's. Every time you demand that people "cite the relevant parts. Explain. Argue for its veracity," and follow it with "I neither can or should do it for you," you miss the point of skepticism by a mile- that you need to read the cites in their entireties for yourself. Otherwise, you look like the creationist or flat-earther who cringes from confronting the whole of the evidence against their ideas because that whole threatens them. Nobody but you can test your ideas for yourself- only you know what it would take to admit to yourself error.
Admonishing goes both ways; for you to put the complete responsibility on manifesto is single visioned. You can go back in this thread and it is the "debunkers" who make the snide comments without moving the topic forward. It is a "debunker" who is calling manifesto a "neo nazi"... yet, that goes untouched as your focus is on manifesto's use of having his critics cite passages instead of just posting the articles. Credibility can only be earned when a person is consistent; manifesto's actions are steady and as you stated he/she will admit when they are incorrect... the same cannot be said about some "debunkers".
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Old 31st May 2018, 10:00 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
The political power in the US has always been moreso in the hands of the powerful than the weak. I believe you will find that trying to construct some from of 'de-powering of money' will run afoul of freedom of speech and creative slide of hand. If completely removed this would mean that very rich people would be able to garner power even further as poorer people would be unable to obtain enough money to run for office.
How is this different from what we have today? GW Bush had a Cabinet which had collective assets exceeding $500M.
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Old 31st May 2018, 10:42 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by No Other View Post
Admonishing goes both ways; for you to put the complete responsibility on manifesto is single visioned. You can go back in this thread and it is the "debunkers" who make the snide comments without moving the topic forward. It is a "debunker" who is calling manifesto a "neo nazi"... yet, that goes untouched as your focus is on manifesto's use of having his critics cite passages instead of just posting the articles. Credibility can only be earned when a person is consistent; manifesto's actions are steady and as you stated he/she will admit when they are incorrect... the same cannot be said about some "debunkers".
The phrase "National Security State" was coined by Neo-Nazis on American podcasts. It's one of the Alt-Right's dog whistles.

If he was a true liberal fighting fascism he'd know that he'd know that.

We post links because there are board rules about posting long passages, and in the case of history it is much more beneficial to read the original material in its context for better understanding.

Finally, he hijacked the thread.
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Old 31st May 2018, 10:44 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by No Other View Post
How is this different from what we have today? GW Bush had a Cabinet which had collective assets exceeding $500M.
GW Bush hasn't been President for ten years. Our current President is a real piece of work, yet your mind went to Bush. Weird.
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Old 31st May 2018, 11:27 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Well, there you go- CT as ideology (veering into religion), along with the test for ideological purity, that anyone who disagrees with it must be part of it or just plain ignorant. McCarthy would have been proud...
The evidence of a conspiracy and a cover up of the assassination of RFK are if at all possible, even more obvious than the same for his older brother. It’ll take time to go through all of it but be sure that I will, if not banned.

Quote:
Gotta admit, I'm a little disappointed (though I can't say totally surprised). I mean, you seem like an intelligent person with a pretty good command of the material; and I thought it was pretty upright of you when you admitted you weren't right about something (Lodge being the only one who knew where Diem and his brother were hiding). I've no idea how old you are, but haven't you learned yet that intelligent people can look at the same facts as you and come to different conclusions from them? (Channeling old Abe there a little, I think)
Of course there is more than one side to every story but that doesn’t mean that truth is relative. There is only one way an event can have happened, not several ways (with reservations for multiple universes).


Quote:
And the sneering at someone who disagrees with you as, essentially, "no true skeptic" is also silly.
When time and again have to deal with ”skeptics” on a forum devoted to ”scientific skepticism” that acts contrary to every reasonable definition of that concept, one has to point it out.

To remain sane.


Quote:
Skepticism begins at home, meaning you start with questioning your own conclusions before starting on anyone else's. Every time you demand that people "cite the relevant parts. Explain. Argue for its veracity," and follow it with "I neither can or should do it for you," you miss the point of skepticism by a mile- that you need to read the cites in their entireties for yourself.
Do I? Really? Where do you draw the line? An essay? A book? A series of books with additional evidentiary volumes?

The thing is. If someone reads an article that is claiming to refute this and that, this same ”someone” has to understand it in order to see if that is really the case. IF this someone understands the paper, he/she should have no problems in explaining the critical data, methods and conclusions and make his/her case.

That is how it works. It is not the opponent who shall do this for him/her. That is plain nuts.

Example. There is an argument I make for CIA sanctioning the assassinations of the Ngo brothers against the expressed orders of their president, JFK.

If you in turn have issues with any of my statements, you correct them and/or request that I substantiate them with sources and maybe quotes from these if deemed proper.

Imagine me posting a couple of links to x number of books and suggests that you should read them and ”understand”.

Would you like that?

Quote:
Otherwise, you look like the creationist or flat-earther who cringes from confronting the whole of the evidence against their ideas because that whole threatens them. Nobody but you can test your ideas for yourself- only you know what it would take to admit to yourself error.
When debating a controversial subject the discussion tends to be polarized.

A is listing all the facts, sources and good arguments for or against.

B is listing all the facts, sources and good arguments against or for.

May the closest to the Truth win.
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