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Tags assassinations , Kennedy conspiracies , RFK assassination , Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

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Old 22nd June 2018, 04:16 PM   #281
manifesto
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Originally Posted by Whip View Post
the proof is the existence of the conspiracy theorist.
No, the proof of two types of Looney Nutters:

1. The real bullies who knows what they are doing.

2. The hang arounds that like the feeling of being ’protected’ by the real bullies.

I’m still not sure of what type is the most despicable.
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Old 22nd June 2018, 04:34 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
So you're saying THEY (MKULTRA) threw in some LSD and 'mind control' to make XXXXXXXX their 'man' so he would act so implausibly and off base to cause CTs to loose credibility?
lol. I'm just sayin' we have a "proven fact that it is possible to mind control/program a subject in a way that Sirhan is suspected to have been." on display right here in the form of a CT. how else would you explain the ridiculous assertion and lack of evidence?
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Old 22nd June 2018, 04:52 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
J=

What on earth are you doing?
Evidently confounding the already confused.

You, in this particular flight of CTist fantasy, wish to cite eye-witness testimony as being superior to scientific fact.

Here's the deal. Witnesses often make mistakes in recounting their experiences. If a witness account does not support the actual physical evidence the accepted course of action is, in the absence of physical evidence in support of the witness testimony, to go with science over the oral reporting from witnesses.

The fact that witnesses put RFK "only" within "X" amount of distance when the bullet wounds exhibit that the murder weapon was closer, that doesn't indicate conspiracy, it indicates that the witnesses are correct.

I know it's hard to swallow, but with all the jive that CTists swallow in support of their interesting world view it shouldn't be too hard to at least take in a little truth while drinking the CTist Kool-Aid.
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Old 22nd June 2018, 06:53 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
Ah, you are trying to conflate a proven multi million dollar mind control research program involvning hundreds of institutions and thousands of participants with ”reptile aliens from Draco”?

Why on earth are you trying to do that, smartcooky?
Please explain how LSD dosing (the main agent of action under MKUltra) drives one to specifically be directed to perform an assassination, instead of hallucinate and play psychedelic music or such.
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Old 22nd June 2018, 07:09 PM   #285
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I love how MK Ultra shows up when CTists need to get the real perpetrator off the hook. Why is the fact that Sirhan Sirhan was obviously in mental decline, based on the interviews conducted by LAPD, and that in the end his lawyers should have done a better job with the insanity defense?

But no, it's always "The CIA made him do it".
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Old 22nd June 2018, 07:28 PM   #286
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I think the only reason RFK Jr. is still alive is cause he lost his mind.

Which is such a shame, I saw him speak years ago and found him very inspiring.
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Old 22nd June 2018, 07:30 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
I think the only reason RFK Jr. is still alive is cause he lost his mind.

Which is such a shame, I saw him speak years ago and found him very inspiring.
If anything, HE is the one who acts like an MKUltra victim...
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Old 22nd June 2018, 07:43 PM   #288
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Correction to my post 283 above:

The fact that witnesses put RFK "only" within "X" amount of distance when the bullet wounds exhibit that the murder weapon was closer, that doesn't indicate conspiracy, it indicates that the witnesses are incorrect.
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Old 22nd June 2018, 08:22 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
Wrong. The conflation was done in order to misrepresent the fact that the CIA had a real, not imagined, mind control program where research on programing assassins and/or patsies for assassinations was a clearly stated part. In it’s precursor, the ARTichoke program, they even state that the assassination of domestic American officials (i.e. presidents included) was part of its purpose.

This is not ”reptilian aliens” or ”staring at goats”, this is a proven illegal multi million dollar effort including hundreds of institutions and thousands participants over a long period of time.

Luckily, some of the financial records was left after Helms and Angleton in short order got the boot and purged all the records before they left the scene.

And, yes, it is a proven fact that it is possible to mind control/program a subject in a way that Sirhan is suspected to have been.

No worries.
The problem is that there is very important word missing in your post...

PROVE


...you need to use it to directly connect MKUltra with Sirhan Sirhan

So far, your failure to do this has been nothing short of spectacular!!
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Old 22nd June 2018, 08:38 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Evidently confounding the already confused.

You, in this particular flight of CTist fantasy, wish to cite eye-witness testimony as being superior to scientific fact.

Here's the deal. Witnesses often make mistakes in recounting their experiences. If a witness account does not support the actual physical evidence the accepted course of action is, in the absence of physical evidence in support of the witness testimony, to go with science over the oral reporting from witnesses.

The fact that witnesses put RFK "only" within "X" amount of distance when the bullet wounds exhibit that the murder weapon was closer, that doesn't indicate conspiracy, it indicates that the witnesses are correct.

I know it's hard to swallow, but with all the jive that CTists swallow in support of their interesting world view it shouldn't be too hard to at least take in a little truth while drinking the CTist Kool-Aid.
... and now we have entered: evading the question phase.

1. You cited and underlined this from said study: ”... the autopsy report corroborates eyewitness accounts, dispelling a conspiracy theory that suggests more than one gunman was involved in the shooting.”

2. I read said study and find no corroboration. On the contrary, even if counting only the single one witness who said ”one foot” at the closest, it is NO CORROBORATION of this witness report.

3. You are citing and bolding findings that points out how unreliable witness testimonies often are, and should therefore not be taken seriously.

So, what are you trying to show with your ’scientific study?

1. The study shows that the autopsy corrobrates the witness testimonies?

2. The study shows that the autopsy DO NOT corrobarate the witness testimonies?

What?

Last edited by manifesto; 22nd June 2018 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 22nd June 2018, 09:02 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Please explain how LSD dosing (the main agent of action under MKUltra) drives one to specifically be directed to perform an assassination, instead of hallucinate and play psychedelic music or such.
No, LSD is the most famous agent used. There was a number of agents and combinations of agents illegally experimented with on knowing and not knowing victims.

Btw, has anyone been tried and convicted in court for all these transgressions?

Anyone?

Last edited by manifesto; 22nd June 2018 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 22nd June 2018, 09:08 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Correction to my post 283 above:

The fact that witnesses put RFK "only" within "X" amount of distance when the bullet wounds exhibit that the murder weapon was closer, that doesn't indicate conspiracy, it indicates that the witnesses are incorrect.
And they can even be incorrect in situations other that what they are recalling they have seen.

In 1940, Winston Churchill gave one of his most famous speeches (the "We Shall Fight on the Beaches" speech). He gave that speech on 4 June in the House of Commons. Many years later, people who were alive at the time (including my father and my uncle) remember hearing that actual speech live on the a BBC as he was giving it. The trouble is that they were wrong.

Churchill's "We Shall Fight on the Beaches" was not recorded at the time. The only thing broadcast on the radio was a commentator voicing excerpts from the speech. It wasn't until nine years later in 1949 that Churchill was asked to repeat the speech to be recorded it was that re-oration that was broadcast by the BBC.

People like my father and uncle rare simply misremembering when they heard it. CT's would be amazed because "how could they not get the details right when there was so much at stake" reasons.
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Last edited by smartcooky; 22nd June 2018 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 22nd June 2018, 10:28 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
I’m still not sure of what type is the most despicable.
I would think the ones that make claims without providing any supporting evidence.

Don't you agree?

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Old 22nd June 2018, 10:32 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Whip View Post
lol. I'm just sayin' we have a "proven fact that it is possible to mind control/program a subject in a way that Sirhan is suspected to have been." on display right here in the form of a CT. how else would you explain the ridiculous assertion and lack of evidence?
....ah gross incompetence mixed with grandiose impertinence?
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Old 22nd June 2018, 10:39 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
And they can even be incorrect in situations other that what they are recalling they have seen.

In 1940, Winston Churchill gave one of his most famous speeches (the "We Shall Fight on the Beaches" speech). He gave that speech on 4 June in the House of Commons. Many years later, people who were alive at the time (including my father and my uncle) remember hearing that actual speech live on the a BBC as he was giving it. The trouble is that they were wrong.

Churchill's "We Shall Fight on the Beaches" was not recorded at the time. The only thing broadcast on the radio was a commentator voicing excerpts from the speech. It wasn't until nine years later in 1949 that Churchill was asked to repeat the speech to be recorded it was that re-oration that was broadcast by the BBC.

People like my father and uncle rare simply misremembering when they heard it. CT's would be amazed because "how could they not get the details right when there was so much at stake" reasons.
Your little anecdote aside, why are you promoting a scientific paper that claims that the autopsy is corroborating the witness testimonies of the assassination, and therefore Sirhan as the Lone shooter when this clearly isn’t so?
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Old 22nd June 2018, 10:41 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
I would think the ones that make claims without providing any supporting evidence.

Don't you agree?

Talking of yourself in third person is a sure sign of ”grandiose impertinence”, indeed.
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Old 22nd June 2018, 10:54 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
Talking of yourself in third person is a sure sign of ”grandiose impertinence”, indeed.
Oh no that clearly describes a person who makes claims but provides no evidence but does promises to provide such evidence sometime this century but never does....does that sound like someone we know?
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Old 22nd June 2018, 10:55 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
... and now we have entered: evading the question phase.
It's your MO, so carry on.
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Old 22nd June 2018, 10:56 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
therefore Sirhan as the Lone shooter when this clearly isn’t so?

...ah and where is the evidence that shows this 'clearly'? You do realize that no one believes anything you claim on this subject? Or have you somehow missed this over the years?
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Old 22nd June 2018, 11:01 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
why are you promoting a scientific paper that claims that the autopsy is corroborating the witness testimonies of the assassination, and therefore Sirhan as the Lone shooter when this clearly isn’t so?
Why are you promoting the evidence-free claim that there was a second shooter when this clearly isn’t so?
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Old 22nd June 2018, 11:45 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Why are you promoting the evidence-free claim that there was a second shooter when this clearly isn’t so?
Why are you not answering my question? Why are you promoting a ”scientific paper” that concludes the opposite of what it says in the same paper?

You have to have a reason for this? No reason?
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Old 22nd June 2018, 11:47 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
It's your MO, so carry on.
Why are you promoting a ”scientific paper” that concludes the opposite of what is stated in the same paper?

Did you just read the conclusion, found it to your liking and posted it without checking the content?

Lol.
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Old 22nd June 2018, 11:53 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
...ah and where is the evidence that shows this 'clearly'? You do realize that no one believes anything you claim on this subject? Or have you somehow missed this over the years?
I realized a couple of years ago that this forum is infected by adherants to the Mighty Church who do anything to promote the US National Security State’s perverted history writings.

Well, truth will prevail. It always do. It is a tremendous force of nature.
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Old 23rd June 2018, 12:00 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Oh no that clearly describes a person who makes claims but provides no evidence but does promises to provide such evidence sometime this century but never does....does that sound like someone we know?
I’m responding to a barrage of requests from a whole school of adherants to the Mighty Church everytime I post. It takes time to sort through. Most of it is ad hominem, change of subject, straw man and repeting in absurdum, but what the heck, that’s who you are and I feel good exposing it.

Have you, Hans, ever presented anything of substance ever anywhere? I mean, ever?

Show me.
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Old 23rd June 2018, 12:07 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Correction to my post 283 above:

The fact that witnesses put RFK "only" within "X" amount of distance when the bullet wounds exhibit that the murder weapon was closer, that doesn't indicate conspiracy, it indicates that the witnesses are incorrect.
So, why are you promoting a scientific paper that concludes that the autopsy CORROBORATES THE WITNESS TESTIMONY IF YOU AT THE SAME TIME ARE CLAIMING THAT THE WITNESSES ARE INCORRECT?

Are you not tormented by inner conflict doing this?

Lol.
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Old 23rd June 2018, 12:51 AM   #306
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A new documentary on the Sirhan case: https://youtu.be/lCU2MCxjAJ0
”Was Sirhan Sirhan hypnotically programmed to assassinate Bobby Kennedy? For the last eleven years, Dr. Daniel Brown, a leading expert on hypnosis and coercive persuasion at Harvard Medical School, and Sirhan's attorney Laurie Dusek, have spent over 150 hours with Sirhan, trying to recover his memory of the shooting. These sessions have produced some extraordinary new evidence of the "range mode" programming allegedly used to set up Sirhan as the lone assassin. On the 50th anniversary of the assassination, you can now watch Brown and Dusek discuss these new discoveries for the first time.”
Brown also adminstered new rorschach tests on Sirhan and blinded them for evaluations by third party experts + the same for the tests made before the trial after the assassination, and concluded that he is not and was not a ”paranoid schizofrenic”, as was concluded by both the ’defense’ and the prosecution at the same trial.

Brown has authored four textbooks on hypnosis and have been repetedly consulted by the International Court of Justice in Haag for his expertise in trauma and memory connected to war crimes and crimes against humanity.

He took on Sirhans case pro bono and at great personal cost.
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Old 23rd June 2018, 02:18 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
Why are you not answering my question? Why are you promoting a ”scientific paper” that concludes the opposite of what it says in the same paper?

You have to have a reason for this? No reason?
Why are you not answering my question?

Why are you promoting the evidence-free claim that there was a second shooter when this clearly isn’t so?

You have to have a reason for this? No reason?
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- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
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Old 23rd June 2018, 02:33 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Why are you not answering my question?

Why are you promoting the evidence-free claim that there was a second shooter when this clearly isn’t so?

You have to have a reason for this? No reason?
But that is not the issue here. The issue is why you are promoting a ”scientific paper” that contradict its main finding stated in its headline.

Changing the subject doesn’t answer my question, does it?
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Old 23rd June 2018, 02:49 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
But that is not the issue here. The issue is why you are promoting a ”scientific paper” that contradict its main finding stated in its headline.

Changing the subject doesn’t answer my question, does it?
I'm not changing the subject. I'm asking you to to justify the position you have taken, i.e. that there was a second shooter (which you have maintained from a time long before this scientific study came out). Precedence therefore demands that you first provide evidence to back up your claim. Once you have done that, then we can deal with the issue of this more recent scientific study, and how it refutes your claim.
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As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920

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Old 23rd June 2018, 02:53 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I'm not changing the subject. I'm asking you to to justify the position you have taken, i.e. that there was a second shooter (which you have maintained from a time long before this scientific study came out). Precedence therefore demands that you first provide evidence to back up your claim. Once you have done that, then we can deal with the issue of this more recent scientific study, and how it refutes you claim.
Ah, you can’t defend your promoting the study?

Just say so and retract. It’s easy. Give it a try.
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Old 23rd June 2018, 02:54 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
Ah, you can’t defend your promoting the study?

Just say so and retract. It’s easy. Give it a try.
Ah, you can’t defend your claim?

Just say so and retract. It’s easy. Give it a try
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As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
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Old 23rd June 2018, 02:57 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Ah, you can’t defend your claim?

Just say so and retract. It’s easy. Give it a try
My claim is that your ”scientific paper” doesn’t prove what it says it prove, that Sirhan fired all the shots fired that night in the pantry.

Your claim that it does is soundly refuted, by their own admission in the report itself.

How about that for a starters?

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Old 23rd June 2018, 03:16 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
My claim is that your ”scientific paper” doesn’t prove what it says it prove, that Sirhan fired all the shots fired that night in the pantry.

Your claim that it does is soundly refuted, by their own admission in the report itself.

How about that for a starters?
Prior to that, you claimed that there was a second shooter.

Precedence therefore demands that you first provide evidence to back up that prior claim. Once you have done that, then we can deal with the issue of this more recent scientific study, and how or if it refutes your claim.
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- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
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Old 23rd June 2018, 03:23 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
It’s is a well known method used by people like you to pick on a trivial detail, ambigous formulation, honest mistake and run with it. Bog down the issue in endless semantics, everything BUT the real issue.
And which of those three options are you claiming for your utterly unevidenced claim that the MSM has never reported the RFK conspiracy theories before?

I do find this claim rather rich coming from you. How many pages in the JFK thread did you devote to arguing about the exact meaning of the word "should"?


Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
I insist that I haven’t read anything near this much from MSM in such a short time and as fair and balanced. Your driplets of articles from a very long period of time doesn’t refute my conclusion that this is really so and says nothing in the way of balanced/not balanced content.
Just because you haven't read it doesn't mean it wasn't there.

"My" driplets (actually Wikipedia's list) demonstrate this point exactly. The whole point is that they are from a very long period of time, something you claimed was the opposite (that this phenomenon was a recent one).

I also note the shift of goalposts at the end. Your first claim was that the various theories had not been picked up on by the MSM. Now you appear to be trying to change this to "balanced" reporting.
On this point, as you are now making claims about the balance of these articles, just to clarify: by 'balance', I trust you mean 'fairly reporting both sides of the story', rather than 'breathless and uncritical acceptance of CT hogwash'. Assuming you mean the former, as it is your claim that the MSM is biased against, shall we say, alternative, theories, it seems only reasonable that you have actually read these articles and come to some conclusions on this.
Care to share them, just to prove that this isn't just prejudiced assumption? Bear in mind that no outlet in an independent press is under any obligation to report made-up paranoia as fact. A balanced article can still come out in favour of the common narrative.


Originally Posted by manifesto View Post

You’re the one dishonest and it’s pretty obvious for a not sectarian mind that you have very little regard for truth and justice.

On the contrary.
Strong words. On what are you basing these slurs? Please quote my dishonest posts, and/or those in which I oppose truth and justice, or retract and apologise.
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Old 23rd June 2018, 03:26 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Prior to that, you claimed that there was a second shooter.

Precedence therefore demands that you first provide evidence to back up that prior claim. Once you have done that, then we can deal with the issue of this more recent scientific study, and how or if it refutes your claim.
Well, if RFK was shot from behind and the fatal headshot was fired an inch from the entrance wound, how could Sirhan at all time be in front of him, not closer than three feet with his pistol?

All witnesses exept one who stood far behind RFK, said that Sirhan was not closer than three feet with his pistol. The dissenting witness said not closer than one foot, still far from close enough.

That is, not a single witness gives support to the theory that Sirhan fired the shots that hit RFK = there were at least one more shooter.


Now, explain why you are promoting a ”scientific study” that has its own main conclusion contradicted within its own report.

Last edited by manifesto; 23rd June 2018 at 03:28 AM.
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Old 23rd June 2018, 04:38 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
Well, if RFK was shot from behind and the fatal headshot was fired an inch from the entrance wound, how could Sirhan at all time be in front of him, not closer than three feet with his pistol?
How is this evidence of a second shooter? Even Sirhan Sirhan himself says he acted alone.

Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
All witnesses exept one who stood far behind RFK, said that Sirhan was not closer than three feet with his pistol. The dissenting witness said not closer than one foot, still far from close enough.
How is this evidence of a second shooter?

Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
That is, not a single witness gives support to the theory that Sirhan fired the shots that hit RFK = there were at least one more shooter.
How is this evidence of a second shooter?
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Old 23rd June 2018, 06:29 AM   #317
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
How is this evidence of a second shooter?
If RFK was shot from behind and ALL witnesses in the pantry says Sirhan was firing his pistol from in front not closer than three feet, it had to be someone else who shot RFK = a second shooter.

Quote:
Even Sirhan Sirhan himself says he acted alone.
Sirhan himself has no memory of the shooting.

Quote:
How is this evidence of a second shooter?
If RFK was shot from behind and ALL witnesses in the pantry says Sirhan was firing his pistol from in front not closer than three feet, it had to be someone else who shot RFK = a second shooter.

Quote:
How is this evidence of a second shooter?
If RFK was shot from behind and ALL witnesses in the pantry says Sirhan was firing his pistol from in front not closer than three feet, it had to be someone else who shot RFK = a second shooter.



Now, explain why you are promoting a ”scientific study” that has its own main conclusion contradicted within its own report.
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Old 23rd June 2018, 08:03 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
....deleted.....
Should we follow your method then? That is: Don't cite, whine, demand your personal opinion is fact and lie about providing evidence in the future?
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Old 23rd June 2018, 08:04 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
...ah and where is the evidence that shows this 'clearly'? You do realize that no one believes anything you claim on this subject? Or have you somehow missed this over the years?
While you are hoping that someone somewhere will finally believe you remember that the above is the reality in which you live.

So are you going to show us the evidence that shows what you claimed

'Clearly' you are not....lol
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Old 23rd June 2018, 08:06 AM   #320
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Originally Posted by manifesto View Post
I’m responding to a barrage of requests from a whole school of adherants to the Mighty Church everytime I post. It takes time to sort through. Most of it is ad hominem, change of subject, straw man and repeting in absurdum, but what the heck, that’s who you are and I feel good exposing it.
Bottom line you don't provide evidence and then you lie about it.

Repeat, repeat and repeat

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