ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Convection , meteorology , storms

Reply
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:02 PM   #41
Filippo Lippi
Master Poster
 
Filippo Lippi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,895
Shall I collate book orders?
__________________
"You may not know anything about the issue but I bet you reckon something.
So why not tell us what you reckon? Let us enjoy the full majesty of your uninformed, ad hoc reckon..."
David Mitchell
Filippo Lippi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:04 PM   #42
jimmcginn
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Yet, if you let the pot with water in it sit long enough eventually the water will disappear. It didn't boil so where did it go?
LOL. Do you see a plume of moist air coming off of an evaporating pot of water?

Surreal.

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
jimmcginn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:05 PM   #43
MikeG
Now. Do it now.
 
MikeG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,376
Originally Posted by jimmcginn View Post
.Even a moderately intelligent person realizes that it requires a huge leap of faith to think that warm air rising is evidence that the same phenomena powers storms.......
Great. So you accept that warm air rises in some circumstances. Can you enlighten us as to what changes, and when, to prevent this happening at a large scale, given that you accept it happens on a small scale?
__________________
"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.
MikeG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:05 PM   #44
Myriad
Hyperthetical
 
Myriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: A pocket paradise between the sewage treatment plant and the railroad
Posts: 14,261
Originally Posted by jimmcginn View Post
LOL. Do you see a plume of moist air coming off of an evaporating pot of water?

Surreal.

You didn't answer his question. Where did the water go?
__________________
A zømbie once bit my sister...
Myriad is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:06 PM   #45
Dabop
Muse
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oz
Posts: 785
Your question
Originally Posted by jimmcginn View Post
Are meteorologists being honest with us that they have actually measured, tested this theory or do you think they are pretending to understand and relying on the general confusion of the populace to skirt the issues?
His answer
Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
'Yes', I do believe that meteorologists are being honest with us when it comes to the data that they have actually collected. Also, 'Yes' I do believe that meteorologists do understand what they are working on and that they are not trying to dupe the public.
Your question
Originally Posted by jimmcginn View Post
Do you think they have a good understanding of severe weather. For example, did you know that tornadoes are considered by many to be a mystery. Are they doing all they could do to solve this mystery or are they just pretending to do all they can?
His answer
Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
And 'Yes' I also believe that meteorologists are doing all that they can do in regards to the study of tornadoes.

And this is from a person who has been a professional weather observer and a former pilot.

I hope this helps.
Your 'reply'
Originally Posted by jimmcginn View Post
Wow! This statement underscores the difficulty that revolutionary scientists, like myself, have to deal with over and over again. Note the blatant intellectual dishonesty of your response. This happens over and over again. I ask a question. You change the wording of my question and then present it as if I stated it as such.

What excuse do you have for changing the wording of my question?

Let's see if you can answer this question without changing the wording.

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes

Wow indeed....
__________________
It's a kind of a strawman thing in that it's exactly a strawman thing. Loss Leader

'When you're born into this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show. If you're born in America you get a front row seat.' George Carlin
Dabop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:07 PM   #46
MikeG
Now. Do it now.
 
MikeG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,376
Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
Shall I collate book orders?
Well, his latest youtube clip complete with sophisticated imagery (scribble on notepad) has had a grand total of 3 viewings. I'm one of them. I'll bet the book is going really really well......
__________________
"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.
MikeG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:07 PM   #47
Elagabalus
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,439
Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
I call troll.

Go easy. This just might be the chew toy nirvana that everyone has been hoping for. So squishy!
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:08 PM   #48
jimmcginn
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post

I think anyone who thinks they are pretending to understand weather simply doesn't grasp the concept of professions and expertise.
Can you explain this concept? I've never heard of it. And I am extremely well educated.

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
jimmcginn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:08 PM   #49
Dabop
Muse
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oz
Posts: 785
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Well, his latest youtube clip complete with sophisticated imagery (scribble on notepad) has had a grand total of 3 viewings. I'm one of them. I'll bet the book is going really really well......
Me, thee and he....
__________________
It's a kind of a strawman thing in that it's exactly a strawman thing. Loss Leader

'When you're born into this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show. If you're born in America you get a front row seat.' George Carlin
Dabop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:10 PM   #50
jimmcginn
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by Dabop View Post
Your question


His answer

Your question


His answer


Your 'reply'



Wow indeed....
Wow back atcha. You got nothing!!!
jimmcginn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:11 PM   #51
Myriad
Hyperthetical
 
Myriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: A pocket paradise between the sewage treatment plant and the railroad
Posts: 14,261
Originally Posted by jimmcginn View Post
Surreal. Even a moderately intelligent person realizes that it requires a huge leap of faith to think that warm air rising is evidence that the same phenomena powers storms.

How can you call yourself a skeptic? (Or, possibly, you don't?)

He made no such claim, or leap of faith. You asked, specifically:

Quote:
Do you believe warm, moist air is lighter than cool, dry air?

He was addressing that question. If you want to assess claims about evidence for what powers storms, then try asking questions about evidence for what powers storms.
__________________
A zømbie once bit my sister...
Myriad is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:15 PM   #52
MikeG
Now. Do it now.
 
MikeG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,376
Originally Posted by jimmcginn View Post
Wow back atcha. You got nothing!!!
You're reversing the burden of proof again. Dabop isn't the one making claims around here. That's you. You can start explaining them just a soon as you like.
__________________
"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.
MikeG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:17 PM   #53
jimmcginn
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Great. So you accept that warm air rises in some circumstances.
I never said otherwise.
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Can you enlighten us as to what changes, and when, to prevent this happening at a large scale, given that you accept it happens on a small scale?
If all you can do is misquote people maybe you should find another hobby.

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
jimmcginn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:17 PM   #54
Dabop
Muse
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oz
Posts: 785
Originally Posted by jimmcginn View Post
Wow back atcha. You got nothing!!!
Nothing except that you asked questions, he answered those specific questions, you make a claim including accusations that he rewrote your questions and I showed that he did nothing of the sort, and that's apparently 'nothing'
I think we can all see who is doing exactly what (not that I am particularly surprised, you have a rather easy trail to follow online so I knew what to expect)
__________________
It's a kind of a strawman thing in that it's exactly a strawman thing. Loss Leader

'When you're born into this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show. If you're born in America you get a front row seat.' George Carlin
Dabop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:18 PM   #55
MikeG
Now. Do it now.
 
MikeG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,376
Does that mean you accept that warm air rises on any and every scale?
__________________
"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.
MikeG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:22 PM   #56
jimmcginn
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
He made no such claim.
Then what was his point?
jimmcginn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:24 PM   #57
MikeG
Now. Do it now.
 
MikeG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,376
Originally Posted by jimmcginn View Post
Then what was his point?
To answer your question. If you don't want answers, don't ask questions. Particularly, if you don't want answers you don't like, don't ask gormless questions.
__________________
"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.
MikeG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:24 PM   #58
Dabop
Muse
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oz
Posts: 785
Originally Posted by jimmcginn View Post
Then what was his point?
His point was in the sentence that began EXACTLY where you truncated his quote (funnily enough)
__________________
It's a kind of a strawman thing in that it's exactly a strawman thing. Loss Leader

'When you're born into this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show. If you're born in America you get a front row seat.' George Carlin
Dabop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:25 PM   #59
jimmcginn
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Does that mean you accept that warm air rises on any and every scale?
I never said otherwise.

Read between the lines much?

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
jimmcginn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:29 PM   #60
jimmcginn
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 16
Talking

Originally Posted by Dabop View Post
Nothing except that you asked questions, he answered those specific questions, you make a claim including accusations that he rewrote your questions and I showed that he did nothing of the sort,
LOL. Maybe there is something wrong with your computer. Or, it operator.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
jimmcginn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:30 PM   #61
MikeG
Now. Do it now.
 
MikeG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,376
Originally Posted by jimmcginn View Post
I never said otherwise.
Oh good. So warm air rises on, say, a storm-size scale. Glad we've established that.

Quote:
Read between the lines much?
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 12
__________________
"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.

Last edited by zooterkin; 3rd November 2018 at 09:52 AM.
MikeG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:35 PM   #62
Dabop
Muse
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oz
Posts: 785
Originally Posted by jimmcginn View Post
LOL. Maybe there is something wrong with your computer. Or, it operator.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
Another snide aside, followed by another factually incorrect statement, there is you disagreeing with everyone else, as can be seen by the already many statements made by the regular posters here already
(who if they havent already googled your name and found the various other forums you have posted at, soon will no doubt)

Are all our computers wrong? Are all their operators wrong?
__________________
It's a kind of a strawman thing in that it's exactly a strawman thing. Loss Leader

'When you're born into this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show. If you're born in America you get a front row seat.' George Carlin
Dabop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:39 PM   #63
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 30,613
Originally Posted by jimmcginn View Post
LOL. Maybe there is something wrong with your computer. Or, it operator.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes

https://xkcd.com/169/
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 03:41 PM   #64
fagin
Philosopher
 
fagin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 6,798
How can you guys argue with someone who has written two books, especially one with an overall five star review.

https://www.amazon.com/Vortex-Phase-...1198439&sr=1-2

Admittedly the total reviews = one. And possibly by an idiot.

"I enjoyed this book because of the reasonable explanations, how weather really works. There are simple solutions, to hither to unsolvable mystery. I recommend this book to anyone who wonders why weather does what it does. It will fill you with renewed intrest in something you thought resolved long ago!"
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
fagin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 07:25 PM   #65
Molinaro
Illuminator
 
Molinaro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,242
Originally Posted by jimmcginn View Post
Surreal. Even a moderately intelligent person realizes that it requires a huge leap of faith to think that warm air rising is evidence that the same phenomena powers storms.

How can you call yourself a skeptic? (Or, possibly, you don't?)

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes

I reject your reverse correct info speak.
__________________
100% Cannuck!
Molinaro is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 09:19 PM   #66
jimmcginn
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Warm air is demonstratably lighter than cold air, to anyone who's ever been inside four walls.
.
Answer the question I asked.
jimmcginn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 09:20 PM   #67
jimmcginn
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
I strongly doubt there is a cabal of meteorologists seeking to defraud the populace in any way.

.
With faithful believers like yourself that would be unnecessary.
jimmcginn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 09:48 PM   #68
jimmcginn
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 16
Here is what all of you don't get.

Storms have nothing whatsoever to do with convection, dry layer capping, or latent heat.

Storms are always the result of vortice activity, usually toward the top of the troposphere. That is all storms, including hurricanes.

Meteorologists have a taboo about discussing their model of storms. This is because their theory is so bad that any discussion will reveal their failure to figure out storms.

Vortices emerge on moist/dry wind shear boundaries, the most prominent of which is the tropopause.

Meteorologists had zero chance of figuring out storms because to understand storms you need to understand the origins of vortices and to understand the origins of vortices you need to have an in depth understanding of the anomalies of water.

The reason water is involved with storms has nothing whatsoever to do with it magically turning to steam at ambient temperatures. (This is the most obvious clue. You just about have to be a retxxx to miss it.)

The reason water is involved with storms is because of the surface tension of H2O which is maximized on windshear boundaries to produce a hydrophobic plasma that is the basis of vortices.

Another reason meteorologists had no chance to figure out storms is because until somebody--myself--came along that was smart enough to solve the puzzle of H2O anomalies there was no chance anybody would understand H2O surface tension well enough to understand the origin of vortices:

Search YouTube: mcginn pauling's omission

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
jimmcginn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 10:17 PM   #69
DevilsAdvocate
Illuminator
 
DevilsAdvocate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,977
Originally Posted by Dabop View Post
Out of his depth- how can you say such a thing...
He's the CEO of a company, and a 5 star author, and has skills in skills and expertise in entrepreneurship, customer service, computer science, business process, water treatment,
geography, fluid mechanics, evolutionary biology, climatology, social
anthropology, geology, hydrogeology, hydrology and – oh yes –
theoretical physics....
What, is he training to become a lawyer?
__________________
Heaven forbid someone reads these words and claims to be adversely affected by them, thus ensuring a barrage of lawsuits filed under the guise of protecting the unknowing victims who were stupid enough to read this and believe it! - Kevin Trudeau
DevilsAdvocate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 11:09 PM   #70
Lurch
Muse
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 606
On the off chance that someone might not understand why moist air at given temperature is less dense than drier air at the same temperature...

The vast bulk of air comprises N2 (two N) and O2 (two O) molecules. The water molecule is H2O (two lightweight H and one O), which is hardly more than 1/2 the mass of O2. A given volume of gas at a given temperature and pressure contains the same number of particles (be they molecules, atoms or a combination.) The lighter water molecules therefore effectively displace the same number of the heavier molecules, thereby decreasing the density.

The higher the air temperature, the more water vapor which can be held before condensing out. And hence the larger the potential decrease in density.

The impact on density changes with humidity become of minor importance at rather cold temperatures, where the absolute humidity can only be very low.

It's worth pointing out as well that at given air pressure, density still varies inversely as the temperature. In a given volume, at higher temperature the molecules exert a higher pressure, thereby effectively compensating for their smaller number.

This is why, at given station air pressure, warmer air or moister air, and especially warmer *and* moister air, results in longer take-off rolls for aircraft.

Sorry for the basic lesson for those who've already long ago internalized such foundational physics.
Lurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 11:22 PM   #71
Lurch
Muse
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 606
James,
You mention "vortex activity, usually near the top of the troposphere."

OK. Give us a precis of vorticity and vorticity advection.
Lurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 11:30 PM   #72
Kid Eager
Philosopher
 
Kid Eager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,695
Don’t apologise - this makes a nice counterpoint to the nonscience.
__________________
What do Narwhals, Magnets and Apollo 13 have in common? Think about it....
Kid Eager is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2018, 11:55 PM   #73
SusanB-M1
Incurable Optimist
 
SusanB-M1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,553
Originally Posted by jimmcginn View Post
Are You skeptical of meteorology's convection model of storm theory?

Yes, No?

If yes how did you come to be skeptical? Did you notice something that didn't make sense?

If No why not? Have you studied the topic? College? Individually?

What parts of it do you think are perfectly reasonable/sound and what parts do you feel unsure about?

Here are some subtopics that you might be able to get you teeth into:

Do you believe warm, moist air is lighter than cool, dry air?

Do you believe dry layers act as a cap to upwelling of lighter, moist air?

Do you believe release of latent heat from water describes the origins of the cold gusty winds of storms?

Are meteorologists being honest with us that they have actually measured, tested this theory or do you think they are pretending to understand and relying on the general confusion of the populace to skirt the issues?

Do you think they have a good understanding of severe weather. For example, did you know that tornadoes are considered by many to be a mystery. Are they doing all they could do to solve this mystery or are they just pretending to do all they can?

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes

I am not sure about all my specific answers to such questions, but what I do know is that the information contained in a book I am three-quarters of the way through at the moment, called 'The Weather Experiment' by Peter Mooor, is extremely interesting and I am trying to remember what I am learning. It is mainly about the people who were most importantly instrumental in the advancement of understanding of the weather and, gradually, its forecasting. I really recommend it to anyone interested.

ETA I have now read through the thread ... but I won't delete my post as there might be others here who will be interested in the book!!
Robert Fitz-Roy's life and character play quite a large part. Such an interesting man.

Last edited by SusanB-M1; 3rd November 2018 at 12:11 AM.
SusanB-M1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2018, 12:32 AM   #74
MikeG
Now. Do it now.
 
MikeG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,376
Originally Posted by jimmcginn View Post
Here is what all of you don't get.

Storms have nothing whatsoever to do with convection, dry layer capping, or latent heat............
Oh good. After all the posturing, the sneering, and the self-aggrandisement, finally we get to some actual claims. Great. I mean, it's a giggle to think that some guy on the internet has spotted multiple "anomalies of water" that scientists aren't aware of........but let's go with it for a second.

What does your model of meteorology predict that isn't predicted by the standard model? Specifics, please, and of course, your prediction must be falsifiable.

Have you tested this prediction?

Have you published the results in a peer-reviewed journal?

Have others replicated your results?
__________________
"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.
MikeG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2018, 12:38 AM   #75
MikeG
Now. Do it now.
 
MikeG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,376
Originally Posted by jimmcginn View Post
Why are you brits so whiny?
Oh I can do whiny if you want. We'll probably come to that, but I haven't to date. More to the point, you just extrapolated from a sample size of one to draw general conclusions about 60 million people. Your claim to be a scientist is a lie, as we know, so what you have just done is the equivalent of me saying that all Americans are liars*, based on a sample size of 2 (you and Trump).

*They're not.
__________________
"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.

Last edited by MikeG; 3rd November 2018 at 12:39 AM.
MikeG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2018, 12:43 AM   #76
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 10,610
Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
On the off chance that someone might not understand why moist air at given temperature is less dense than drier air at the same temperature...

The vast bulk of air comprises N2 (two N) and O2 (two O) molecules. The water molecule is H2O (two lightweight H and one O), which is hardly more than 1/2 the mass of O2. A given volume of gas at a given temperature and pressure contains the same number of particles (be they molecules, atoms or a combination.) The lighter water molecules therefore effectively displace the same number of the heavier molecules, thereby decreasing the density.

The higher the air temperature, the more water vapor which can be held before condensing out. And hence the larger the potential decrease in density.

The impact on density changes with humidity become of minor importance at rather cold temperatures, where the absolute humidity can only be very low.

It's worth pointing out as well that at given air pressure, density still varies inversely as the temperature. In a given volume, at higher temperature the molecules exert a higher pressure, thereby effectively compensating for their smaller number.

This is why, at given station air pressure, warmer air or moister air, and especially warmer *and* moister air, results in longer take-off rolls for aircraft.

Sorry for the basic lesson for those who've already long ago internalized such foundational physics.
Thanks for this Lurch, for me it was a useful refresher. I doubt it will help educate an OP who is apparently under the impression that the accepted model requires water "magically turning to steam at ambient temperatures", though.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2018, 04:53 AM   #77
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 18,166
Originally Posted by jimmcginn View Post
LOL. Do you see a plume of moist air coming off of an evaporating pot of water?

Surreal.

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
Well yes. Anyone can by the simple test of boiling a pot of water and simply watching. I take it that you have never cooked for yourself.

Still, your claim means that my extractor is simply a hoax perpetrated by the global steam extractor scam foundation.

Do we have a troll fail smiley in the locker?
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?


...love and buttercakes...
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2018, 05:10 AM   #78
MikeG
Now. Do it now.
 
MikeG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,376
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Well yes. Anyone can by the simple test of boiling a pot of water and simply watching. I take it that you have never cooked for yourself.

Still, your claim means that my extractor is simply a hoax perpetrated by the global steam extractor scam foundation.

Do we have a troll fail smiley in the locker?
There are multiple other ways of showing this effect without the boiling water which seems to stir Jim's blood so much. Here's a simple one: in a warm room indoors open a new clean plastic bag with one of those zip strip seals along the top and leave it for a while for all the temperature differences to even out. Seal it up fully without squeezing out the air. Place it in a fridge overnight, and observe the water inside in the morning.

Or, if you don't have the patience, put it in the freezer and observe the ice an hour or two later. If you doubt the presence of water vapour in the air without boiling water as a source, explain your observations of the contents of those plastic bags.

Or of course you could just leave a saucer of water out for a few days then explain where it has gone.
__________________
"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.

Last edited by MikeG; 3rd November 2018 at 05:18 AM.
MikeG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2018, 05:17 AM   #79
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 22,352
Let's assume that I'm convinced by the scientific arguments put forth in this thready by Jim.

Jim, my two questions are: 1) why have meteorologists been lying about this all this time? 2) what are you proposing should be done about it?
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2018, 05:24 AM   #80
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 30,613
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Or of course you could just leave a saucer of water out for a few days then explain where it has gone.

The cat drank it.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:26 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.