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Tags | donald trump , James Comey , lying charges , Michael Flynn |
View Poll Results: Who do you believe, Trump or Comey? |
Trump, because he is a President of great integrity who would never lie. | 4 | 4.26% | |
Comey, the recently fired disgruntled employee. | 90 | 95.74% | |
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll |
19th May 2017, 01:11 PM | #41 |
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"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf "I think accuracy is important" - Vixen |
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19th May 2017, 01:22 PM | #42 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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19th May 2017, 02:03 PM | #43 |
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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19th May 2017, 02:13 PM | #44 |
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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19th May 2017, 02:16 PM | #45 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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19th May 2017, 04:43 PM | #46 |
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This seems to be a no brainer. Would like to see everyone vote.
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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19th May 2017, 05:00 PM | #47 |
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Being the victim of genocidal atrocities does not give you free reign to commit your own genocidal atrocities. When Republican politicians were young, they were the kids who watched James Bond movies and said "I want to grow up to be just like [insert name of villain here]." |
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19th May 2017, 11:48 PM | #48 |
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Has anybody seen these memos? Has Comey himself commented on whether they exist?
Oh, sorry, I thought this was a place for skepticism. |
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20th May 2017, 12:53 AM | #49 |
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Second vote explained.
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Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. |
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20th May 2017, 01:05 AM | #50 |
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20th May 2017, 02:39 AM | #51 |
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Funny, that wasn't the question. It was who do you believe? Comey or the President?
But I think your comment shows a misunderstanding of what is skepticism. Do you believe the memos don't exist? Or that they don't materially say what they have been reported by numerous news outlets? Or do you think it's all 'fake news'? Ultimately, I expect the memos will be produced. Keep in mind, Comey will be testifying in an open session of Congress after Memorial day. I kind of think that Comey is showing the President another way to control the news cycle. He is releasing a little of the story just tiny bits at a time. |
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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20th May 2017, 06:45 AM | #52 |
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Why would seeing the memos be enough? I thought you were arguing for skepticism here.
As a True Skeptic™ I need multiple independent pieces of evidence, preferably video and audio recordings from multiple angles with time-stamps clearly documenting that Comey actually wrote said memos as alleged. Anything short of that would simply be insufficient to convince a True Skeptic™ such as myself to come to a reasonable conclusion. As such I must simply accept that i don't know whether or not Comey wrote any notes at all and it's just as likely that Trump is speaking the Truth as Comey is. |
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We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann |
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20th May 2017, 06:52 AM | #53 |
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20th May 2017, 06:54 AM | #54 |
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I think Trump's lying and Comey's telling the truth, but I don't consider these memos as the rocksolid evidence others seem to be. Ckney wrote them, so why are they more reliable as evidence than hearsay? It's still his claim versus Trump's claim of what happened. That Comey committed his version to paper makes it better? One can only tell the truth in writing? If Trump had scrawled a memo, clutching a crayon in his pudgy little paw, of his version of events would his memo be evidence also?
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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20th May 2017, 06:55 AM | #55 |
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20th May 2017, 07:11 AM | #57 |
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Wait, where's the "I believe whatever the Media decides to be the truth"-option?
Actually, I believe neither one. Not even the question itself. |
20th May 2017, 07:15 AM | #58 |
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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20th May 2017, 07:43 AM | #59 |
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It wouldn't be considered hearsay. Comey witnessed a crime. And Comey is a law enforcement officer. We tend to believe their testimony. That he wrote it down while the events were fresh in his mind and that by electronically sending those notes to others he managed to timestamp them.
Thes are notes of what a law enforcement officer witnessed moments before. Lots of people have gone to prison on this. If the memo was written days or weeks later, it would be easier to believe his memory could just be poor. Also, if transcribing memos was unusual it might carry less weight. From all reports this is a common practice of Comey's. That makes it more believable. From my perspective, this is simply a question of credibility. If you put other remarks the President has made about why Jim Comey was fired IMV, this is a slam dunk. But hey, maybe that's just me. |
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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20th May 2017, 07:51 AM | #60 |
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20th May 2017, 08:28 AM | #61 |
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"James Comey better hope that there are no 'tapes' of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!" Looks like Trump tried to bully Comey because he knows what Comey is going to say. Unfortunately, he did so in the stupidest way possible: If he can't produce tapes refuting what's in the Comey memos, they will be accepted as factual.
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20th May 2017, 08:35 AM | #62 |
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20th May 2017, 08:40 AM | #63 |
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Yes. Of course. If it was just the occasional lie, or even the normal proportion we've grown to expect from Republican politicians it might not have a significant effect, but we are talking about someone who has been shown to lie regularly and compulsively for no good reason, let alone when it is to his advantage. His lying is so habitual that his supporters even use it as an argument when they are defending what he says. "Oh, you can't believe everything he says. That's just the way he is."
Quote:
Yes. 'Work product' notes are routinely admitted as evidence in criminal cases, and given a substantial amount of weight. |
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
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20th May 2017, 08:41 AM | #64 |
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
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20th May 2017, 08:46 AM | #65 |
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We had such a president for the last two terms, and all that it managed to do was enrage the bigots and idiots and bring them crawling out from under their dung heaps. Of course, it didn't help matters that he was reasonable, experienced, sincere, AND black. That last seems to have been more than a counterbalance sufficient to negate to any other positives. |
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
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20th May 2017, 08:52 AM | #66 |
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My vote isn't a choice: All politicians (in my opinion) are liars, cheats and frauds on the national level - the individual accountability is so diluted by the time they're on that level that they feel bullet-proof (think Hilary and her private server); and most of the time they do get away with it.
Comey, given the level of this issue, is going to memo or journal the event in such a way as to put himself in the best light (and given the media hostility to Trump, it's working). So, my vote is: Both men are liars and are telling the incident they want it to have gone down and the truth is somewhere in between (and probably shredded by now). Whoever put up this poll did not think out all reasonable explanations. |
20th May 2017, 08:52 AM | #67 |
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Which IMV is IS INSANE!!!
That argument amounts to 'You have to understand the President. He's always lying, unless when he isn't.' This makes George Orwell's 'doublespeak' seem mild and reasonable. Unless Comey contradicts what has been reported, I'm convinced the President is guilty of obstruction. Not that he will be convicted. After all, he's not a Democrat who put his dick in an intern's mouth. |
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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20th May 2017, 08:52 AM | #68 |
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Alex Jones of course, just ask the Yogurt company.
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20th May 2017, 09:09 AM | #69 |
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Here's a scenario for the board to chew on:
I just kind of had the thought that Comey might have lied to Trump in the meeting - and that would be okay. Law Enforcement people can lie to suspects in the course of an investigation. Pres: Am I under investigation? FBI: No (A lie, in hopes the Pres/suspect now says something incriminating) Trump might not be understanding that yet. He thinks that if he gave Comey an order and Comey agreed to obey, then later didn't, then he (Trump) has something on Comey. He thinks if he (Trump) asked a question and Comey's answer was later proven untruthful, then Trump has something on Comey. LE investigations don't work that way. If Comey felt that Trump gave him illegal orders, and felt that Trump was a suspect in an investigation, then Comey could lie. He could say that he would agree to do what Trump said, hoping that Trump would say even more incriminating things. Trump may have thought he was a boss giving orders. Comey may have thought this was the oddest undercover investigation of his career, in which Comey pretended to be an unethical version of himself. |
20th May 2017, 01:08 PM | #70 |
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We didn’t hear about the meeting until after Comey was fired. When we question whether Comey is telling the truth, we have to consider the possibility that he made up the story as revenge for being fired. The memo eliminates that possibility. The memo proves that Comey was making the claim at the time the meeting took place. At that time, Comey didn’t have a motivation to lie. Unless Comey was working some bizarre long con to frame the President, the memo is strong evidence that Comey is telling the truth.
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20th May 2017, 01:13 PM | #71 |
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20th May 2017, 01:16 PM | #72 |
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I think you misunderstand me. I didn't say there weren't memos nor that the reported contents are way off base. I just haven't seen anything that suggests Comey is behind the release of the memos.
He might be. He might have released details himself or given permission for others to do so. But at present I have no reason to believe one way or the other. |
20th May 2017, 01:44 PM | #73 |
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I don't know for a fact that he is. But I do believe he is. It's classic Washington. People like Comey have lots of friends and allies in different circles. You don't get to be the FBI Director without being a political animal so I bet he has favors he can count on. It's not the kind of thing he would want to directly leak to the press but it is the kind of thing he would want to get leaked.
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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21st May 2017, 03:20 AM | #74 |
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21st May 2017, 05:01 AM | #75 |
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I've been catching up on conservative radio talk shows. The current meme is that because we, the public, haven't seen the evidence (or memos), there aren't any and this is all made up and that the story is falling apart rather than gaining momentum.
I don't know whether that was Brainster's point, but it seems to fit that pattern. |
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"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe. |
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21st May 2017, 05:49 AM | #76 |
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Yea right, I don't believe Trump is lying. Next you'll say he lost the popular vote too or that he didn't win the EC in a landslide, or that he did not have the largest inauguration crowd in history.
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
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21st May 2017, 05:51 AM | #77 |
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
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21st May 2017, 07:05 AM | #78 |
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21st May 2017, 09:38 AM | #79 |
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OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK |
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21st May 2017, 01:16 PM | #80 |
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'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."' -The Bard |
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