|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
20th March 2017, 07:00 PM | #121 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,382
|
|
20th March 2017, 07:02 PM | #122 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,382
|
|
20th March 2017, 07:03 PM | #123 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,382
|
|
20th March 2017, 07:07 PM | #124 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,382
|
I lost track of which Pubbie said it, but one of them told Comey not to believe the GOP platform on the Ukraine was ever softened. He claimed it never happened.
I looked it up, apparently the original version is not available online so we can see the changes. At the same time, no one denied the change until now that I'm aware of, including Trump who said in an interview, "I believe it was softened" while claiming he had nothing to do with it. |
20th March 2017, 07:15 PM | #125 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,382
|
How is that distinction relevant? It doesn't prove Trump's campaign staff weren't involved in the hacking affair. At a minimum it looks like they got information about the Podesta hack before it was released on Wikileaks (the citation is somewhere upthread about a Tweet that went out before Wikileaks posted the Podesta emails).
Why would Trump have to offer Putin something in order to be involved in Putin's attacks on Clinton? It looks though (based on the current circumstantial evidence) that Putin may have expected more from Trump than he is getting: lifting of sanctions, softening position on Ukraine (remains to be seen) and at some point between Trump and Tillerson it looks like oil drilling in the Arctic is still a desired goal. Trump turns out to be so incompetent, Putin may be having buyer's remorse. |
20th March 2017, 07:54 PM | #126 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 113,982
|
I suspect that Putin has by now realised he doesn't need to get to Trump's team to cause problems for the USA. All he has to do is pay one of the Fox channel's commentators to spout what Putin wants spread. Trump will pick it up and run with it.
|
__________________
“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
|
20th March 2017, 08:04 PM | #127 |
Devilish Dictionarian
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 20,071
|
|
__________________
"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles |
|
20th March 2017, 08:44 PM | #128 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,382
|
|
20th March 2017, 09:54 PM | #129 |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,726
|
|
20th March 2017, 09:58 PM | #130 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,382
|
|
21st March 2017, 06:46 AM | #131 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 17,528
|
I'm embarrassed on behalf of Gowdy and the rest of the Trump water carriers on the committee. Leaks, leaks, and more leaks, heaven forbid, never mind Russian influence in the election and the Liar in Chief.
|
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
|
|
21st March 2017, 09:42 AM | #132 |
このマスクによっ
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,866
|
Reading through the OP and the thread and looking at the media headlines... and looking at what has been said by Clapper and other intel heads.
This russia issue is becoming more of a conspiracy theory than anything else. The media keeps claiming all of these Russia issues are bomb shells... uh... no. Clapper already covered the deal with the amount of evidence to Russia's involvement. While this doesnt mean nothing will be found in the future... there is at the moment no evidence (clappers words). We have also known in some form that russian interference has been under investigation. I am unsure how the media interprets that announcement as any thing shocking or new As to Trump having a relationship with Putin at all... thats plausible. But that man flip flops like a mad dance and does his own damage to himself with his own rhetoric. Im just sitting here watching the media belly aching with paranoia and ratings pursuits over objective reporting while Trump embodies alot of the childish crap ive come to hate... My how this society has fallen |
__________________
Current Set:http://i.imgur.com/IoqiUdK.jpg |
|
21st March 2017, 10:20 AM | #133 |
Disorder of Kilopi
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State of Flux
Posts: 17,617
|
|
21st March 2017, 10:25 AM | #134 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,145
|
|
21st March 2017, 10:28 AM | #135 |
Not a doctor.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 25,860
|
|
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake. |
|
21st March 2017, 10:43 AM | #136 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: No longer Philadelphia :(
Posts: 5,770
|
The distinction is very relevant to how the relationship between Russia and the Trump administration might proceed after the election is over.
If the Russians goal was only to defeat Hillary Clinton, the mission was accomplished on Nov. 8 and any benefit they might expect beyond that is purely a bonus to them. If they were aiding Trump because he is Trump, they would have done so with expectations that the Trump presidency would bring them something that is the goal of the operation in the first place. Look at it this way. The question might be asked whether the Russians would have helped Trump regardless who his opponent was (would they have aided Trump against Bernie Sanders?). If the answer to this is "yes", it is reasonable to assume that they are expecting something from the Trump presidency. If the answer is that they would not have helped Trump had his opponent not been Hillary Clinton, the reasonable assumptions change. IOW. Was the Trump presidency a means to an end (the defeat of Hillary Clinton) for Russia?, or is it the end in itself. I think that distinction is important. |
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure. |
|
21st March 2017, 10:47 AM | #137 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,145
|
|
21st March 2017, 05:27 PM | #138 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,985
|
I previously thought it was unlikely, but the way the Trump spokespeople are retroactively minimizing the roles of Manafort and others under suspicion has convinced me that there probably was direct and knowing collusion. If that is true, I would guess that Trump himself was unaware, but is aware now.
|
21st March 2017, 06:05 PM | #139 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 17,528
|
True, albeit a CT with a lot of circumstantial evidence.
Quote:
In the world I live in, the reason people lie is to conceal the truth. Can you explain these lies? And simultaneously, Trump tosses Ukraine under the bus, defies generations of policy concerning Russia, thumbs his nose at NATO, kisses Putin's ass at every opportunity, and openly encourages Russia to persist with their meddling. This is not the entirety of the circumstantial evidence mind you. |
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
|
|
21st March 2017, 06:19 PM | #140 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,382
|
But the bottom line is, Trump is POTUS and that's a disaster. Whether or not Russia gets a direct quid pro quo is background noise at this point. We have a completely incompetent POTUS and a GOP led legislature that is fluctuating between taking advantage of their good luck and walking on eggshells around the nut in charge.
|
21st March 2017, 06:22 PM | #141 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,382
|
|
21st March 2017, 10:39 PM | #142 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 10,335
|
|
__________________
"To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage
|
|
21st March 2017, 10:40 PM | #143 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,725
|
|
22nd March 2017, 12:07 AM | #144 |
Disorder of Kilopi
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State of Flux
Posts: 17,617
|
According to testimony we've already heard, yes, the goal was to drive a wedge between POTUS and NATO, either by ruining HC's relationship will allies, or picking up and running with the surprisingly useful lunacy of the GOP, to which I would add, the traitorous, eminently bribable GOP.
Sanctions are really hurting Russia's truly lousy and small economy. Putin wants them off, by hook or by crook. He got "crook," and is now laughing at his wild luck. |
22nd March 2017, 12:56 AM | #145 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 37,581
|
There was no lying, they were very busy people running - and so many people have told me this - the most successful campaign for President ever. Whether it's total (legal) votes cast, electoral college votes, share of the vote, approval rating or number of people at the inauguration, by any measure it's the most successful.
Anyway if you're busy running a successful campaign - a campaign that was so successful that the President is now heartily sick and tired of winning (as recent events have shown ) - then small details like these are apt to slip your mind. This absolutely is not a case of the President and/or members of his team lying but rather a combination of #fakenews from a sick, failing, liberal media combined with honest lack of recall about some trivial and tiny details |
22nd March 2017, 02:44 AM | #146 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
|
Really? You think that the Secretary of State, utterly unqualified, being a friend of Russia and doing pretty much zilch since inauguration, which neatly fits with Putin's problems with the State Dep. and Flynn's advice to the Russians that once Trump's in power there won't be sanctions for their actions, is just sheer coincidence?
|
22nd March 2017, 07:26 AM | #147 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
|
|
22nd March 2017, 08:58 AM | #148 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
|
|
22nd March 2017, 09:00 AM | #149 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
|
|
22nd March 2017, 09:26 AM | #150 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,095
|
Wow, The Don, I was about to respond to your post before I realized it was satire. It's hard to tell sometimes in these days of the Poe Administration and its fervent supporters.
|
22nd March 2017, 10:11 AM | #151 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,725
|
Hold it right there! Sean Spicer says he had a "limited role"
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/20/politi...e-sean-spicer/ |
22nd March 2017, 10:19 AM | #152 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
|
|
22nd March 2017, 10:26 AM | #153 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,145
|
The Dem's Benghazi!!!!!!!
|
22nd March 2017, 10:28 AM | #154 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
|
|
22nd March 2017, 10:31 AM | #155 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
|
Rep @DevinNunes revealing at a news conference that additional Trump officials were caught in NSA/FBI surveillance during the transition.Man, team Trump just couldn't stop talking to people under FBI surveillance. How many more people in the administration are they going to have to admit had contact with Russian agents. |
22nd March 2017, 10:37 AM | #156 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
|
|
22nd March 2017, 12:06 PM | #157 |
Disorder of Kilopi
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State of Flux
Posts: 17,617
|
|
22nd March 2017, 12:18 PM | #158 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
|
Uh...
Wow - Nunes just said there are "multiple FISA warrants out there" involving Trump.Nunes says he's going to meet Schiff to talk about this soon. Waiting to talk to Comey he says. Obviously you hold a press conference before meeting with relevant officials. WTF is he thinking? |
22nd March 2017, 12:29 PM | #159 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
|
mention of specific FISA targets is classified TOPSECRET/SCI/ECI (Exceptionally Controlled Information) If we are still a republic of laws, Nunes must be removed from HPSCI, stripped of clearances & prosecuted for this.All this so Donald can falsely claim he was vindicated for lying about Obama? |
22nd March 2017, 12:51 PM | #160 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,400
|
I was talking to my wife about some this. I wonder if the Republicans would ever consider impeaching Trump if enough Russian connections are proven. I assume yes but I am wondering how much proof would be needed before enough would support a impeachment proceeding. Right now we have heard about various circumstantial proof and serious problems with individuals connected with the campaign but it seems there has not been enough presented to decide anything further.
This of course is a hypothetical at this point. |
__________________
"I kayak, therefore I am" |
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|