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11th April 2017, 06:19 AM | #41 |
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11th April 2017, 06:26 AM | #42 |
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If Trump tried to reignite anything on the Korean peninsula, it would not be North Korea who would retaliate nor China. It would be South Korea, because they have the most to lose the fastest.
Plus I suspect all branches of the US military would not look kindly on what they would consider "patently ridiculous" if not "illegal" orders from the Trump desk in Mar-a-Lago. Certainly there would be questions asked and lengthy delays while "clarification" was sought...continually. |
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11th April 2017, 06:30 AM | #43 |
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11th April 2017, 06:35 AM | #44 |
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I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black. Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon |
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11th April 2017, 06:39 AM | #45 |
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Right, it's simultaneously somewhat reassuring and completely terrifying: it shows that disaster can be averted, but that individuals and their decisions are essential.
We are now escalating our way to a showdown where we rely upon the knowledge and decision making skills of Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un. Two *********** ********ters playing chicken. |
11th April 2017, 06:41 AM | #46 |
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Do you seriously believe this? I get it's fun to argue on the forums, but do you sincerely think there was strategy behind Trump's order to launch cruise missiles?
NK has never had a partner willing to respond with equal levels of stupidity. That includes the bellicose Bush administration who included them in the Axis of Evil (still stupid and funny to this day). I have zero confidence that either side will see reason. |
11th April 2017, 06:43 AM | #47 |
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There were and are serious questions about the constitutionality of the missile strike on Syria. The military didn't even hesitate to launch those badboys.
Maybe the significance of a bigger strike would give some folks in the Brass pause, but I don't share your confidence. |
11th April 2017, 06:43 AM | #48 |
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11th April 2017, 07:15 AM | #49 |
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I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black. Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon |
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11th April 2017, 07:20 AM | #50 |
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Also, if you sincerely believe the greatest military force in the history of the planet is about to attack, what behavior is rational?
Jong-un is clearly a madman, but we're acting to constrain his available choices, making him all the more dangerous. Let us not forget that 80-90% of this country thought it was rational and correct to invade Iraq based on an assumption that they had weapons they could potentially pass to terrorists who could potentially get them to the us via rowboat, or some nonsense. The threat to NK is real. How would we behave if we were similarly threatened? |
11th April 2017, 07:24 AM | #51 |
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11th April 2017, 08:59 AM | #52 |
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Short answer: yes.
Tweet from today: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...7718248361986? "North Korea is looking for trouble. If China decides to help, that would be great. If not, we will solve the problem without them! U.S.A." |
11th April 2017, 09:01 AM | #53 |
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Korea's been looking for trouble for decades. Just let them stew. No need to poke the insane dictator to see what happens.
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11th April 2017, 09:32 AM | #54 |
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It seems the most prudent thing would be to wait. I don't know if prudent is in Trump's vocabulary.
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11th April 2017, 09:59 AM | #55 |
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11th April 2017, 10:07 AM | #56 |
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11th April 2017, 10:37 AM | #57 |
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Even in the best case, a new Korean war would be a nightmare for the next 50years at the least: compared to what would need to happen between NK and SK, the difference between West and East in the German reunification was barely noticeable.
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11th April 2017, 11:01 AM | #58 |
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11th April 2017, 11:07 AM | #59 |
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?
How is that "support" for North Korea? The point is that "sane" nations, like us, make really terrible decisions when we're scared. Knowing that, how do you think North Korea is going to behave when they're afraid. And unlike Iraq to the US, the US is absolutely a threat to North Korea. Trump people seem to have this view of the world where all you need to do is get in some country's face and pound your chest and they will back down. I'm suggesting that may not yield optimal outcomes when tried with North Korea. |
11th April 2017, 11:13 AM | #60 |
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11th April 2017, 11:40 AM | #61 |
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11th April 2017, 11:53 AM | #62 |
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If anything, Trump's Foreign Policy is more Pro-DPRK than predecessors, since containment is achieved through economic and diplomatic approaches, and he's gutting the State Department and scrapping international economic treaties.
Since military is not a 'real' option, he's proposing less pressure on DPRK than previous administrations. |
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11th April 2017, 02:41 PM | #63 |
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Quote:
What is this ****, seriously? Why are we going down this path? |
11th April 2017, 03:16 PM | #64 |
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I've always thought the NK was nothing but talk. I hope that's all it is this time too, but I'm starting to worry a little.
Trump is no where near as smart as he thinks he is and very well could cause a major war. This is one of the very reasons Trump is not qualified to be president. |
11th April 2017, 03:20 PM | #65 |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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11th April 2017, 03:33 PM | #66 |
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11th April 2017, 03:58 PM | #67 |
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11th April 2017, 04:07 PM | #68 |
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I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black. Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon |
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11th April 2017, 04:12 PM | #69 |
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http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/10/politi...carrier-korea/
"China understands how dangerous North Korea's nuclear program has become and agrees action must be taken to stop it, US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said Sunday, as the US sent an aircraft carrier strike group toward the Korean Peninsula. "I think even China is beginning to recognize that this presents a threat to even China's interests," Tillerson said during an interview on CBS' "Face the Nation" program Sunday." If it is true that the scales are falling from Chinese eyes, then perhaps NK should be more concerned about the 150,000 Chinese troops on NK's northern border, reportedly including a heavy mechanized army group and a rapid strike force. I don't think NK is in imminent danger of combined attack from China, South Korea, and the U.S., but there could be a pointed message imbedded in all this massing of military force around NK. |
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11th April 2017, 04:19 PM | #70 |
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11th April 2017, 04:23 PM | #71 |
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I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black. Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon |
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11th April 2017, 04:34 PM | #72 |
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11th April 2017, 04:53 PM | #73 |
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Your soothing assurances flatly contradict the attempted and announced intentions of the NK leadership.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31001251 'The big prize: reunification': Supporter Kim Myong Chol Kim Myong Chol was born and lives in Japan, but is ethnically Korean. He has been to North Korea more than 20 times in the last 40 years, and says he has met representatives of the country's elite as well as, in his words, the two Kims - Kim Jong-un's father and grandfather. He hasn't met the third Kim yet, but praises his "guts, determination and intelligence". Some describe Kim Myong Chol as an unofficial spokesman for the leader. "What makes him different from the two Kims," he argues, "is that he will succeed in getting what he wants. The reunification of Korea, without foreign interference. Eventually the US will leave Korea and the Korean peninsula will be re-unified. "[The US will] realise the futility, the senselessness of American military presence in Korea. North Korea [will] become too strong for America. We have now nuclear weapons, we have intercontinental ballistic missiles, we have hydrogen bomb. "We are victims of American aggression. North Korea is a most sanctioned country. Brutalised, criminalised, isolated by America." Note the trademark hypocrisy. In one breath he speaks hungrily of swallowing and digesting the peaceful, democratic SK, as it tried to do in 1950. Then, in the next breath, he portrays NK as the victim of aggression. The usefulness of a "deterrent" nuclear arsenal in the accomplishment of the often-stated goal of swallowing and digesting SK should be obvious. |
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11th April 2017, 05:34 PM | #74 |
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11th April 2017, 05:48 PM | #75 |
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Not that close and not that far.
A carrier has (with an embarked air wing) about 5500 people. Nowadays, the battle groups are not that big. Five escorts @ ~ 350 per is another 1650ish, add an oiler/stores ship another 4-500 gives you 7500ish ... so 22,000+ if you have three battle groups. But "battle group" is a notional quantity. The number of ships expands or contracts based on the mission. In a serious case of shooting, the 30,000 figure isn't that bad of a guess. |
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Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis |
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11th April 2017, 06:10 PM | #76 |
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11th April 2017, 06:29 PM | #77 |
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Uh...
He had his ex girlfriend and a bunch of pop singers executed for violating pornography laws: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ing-squad.html Executed his education minister for not sitting properly: https://www.theatlantic.com/news/arc...-korea/498149/ Executions are evidently a constant. Let's not forget his dad invented the cheeseburger. He wanted to raise giant rabbits to end the famine, so he bought 6 from a seller. Before the seller could get to NK to teach them how to breed the rabbits, Jong-il had eaten all 6 of them. Jong-un jailed an official for not sufficiently grieving at his father's funeral. He expresses all the classic murderous paranoia of the worst dictators. I mean, what are you looking for? Hell, thinking it's a good idea to antagonize the most powerful military in the history of the planet is pretty nuts. He's just relying on the (previously safe) bet that we care more about lives in South Korea than we're interested in shutting him up. |
11th April 2017, 06:43 PM | #78 |
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11th April 2017, 07:13 PM | #79 |
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Actually, I think Tony's on to something. The aim of the Kims is, and has always been, to stay in power. I offer you a link by someone a bit brighter than I who explains it very well. Go here and scroll down to the longish post that a fella called John Schilling makes: it begins like this.
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Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis |
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11th April 2017, 09:55 PM | #80 |
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OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK |
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