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23rd April 2017, 01:36 PM | #81 |
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23rd April 2017, 02:11 PM | #82 |
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"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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23rd April 2017, 02:23 PM | #83 |
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Well, in the case of an ordinary person, a shrink might use medical records and history, observations by other doctors and medical personnel, police reports, accounts by family members, letters and diaries, etc. In other words, all evidence of how the person perceives and relates to the world around him.
In the case of Trump, we have 40+ years of his own statements, much of it recorded on video, observations by people who know him and have worked for or with him, depositions and documentation associated with as many as 4000 law suits, and accounts of his behavior in numerous varied circumstances. Much more is publicly known about Trump than any shrink would know about any ordinary person. A shrink might not be able to formally diagnose someone he has never seen as a patient, but he is certainly equipped to say something like "Trump displays the characteristics that would be associated with a diagnosis of ....." |
23rd April 2017, 02:34 PM | #84 |
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He's claiming he did. It's not a good sign.
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23rd April 2017, 02:50 PM | #85 |
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"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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23rd April 2017, 02:55 PM | #86 |
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23rd April 2017, 03:04 PM | #87 |
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23rd April 2017, 03:09 PM | #88 |
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23rd April 2017, 03:21 PM | #89 |
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"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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23rd April 2017, 03:31 PM | #90 |
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To be fair, Trump's claim that he won the popular vote has less to do with "cherry picked poll results" and more to do with evidence-free claims that 3 million illegal immigrants voted for Hillary.
Not really the same thing at all. Not, in my opinion, evidence of mental illness necessarily, but you really mischaracterized this pathetic lie. |
23rd April 2017, 04:02 PM | #91 |
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23rd April 2017, 04:20 PM | #92 |
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23rd April 2017, 05:38 PM | #93 |
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Trump may be insane, but the 60 million who voted for him aren't. His behavior was well documented before the election so they knew (or should have known) what they were in for. These people need to be taught a lesson about 'lesser evil', and we shouldn't get in the way of that.
Democrats should not try to remove Trump, but just let him continue to mess things up (of course they must not work with him either, or Republicans would drop him in a heartbeat). Republicans will eventually be forced to take action, and when that happens we need them to own it. So please ignore these psychiatrists who say Trump is mentally ill. Perhaps he is, but telling people that won't do any good. It's not Trump that's the problem, but the people who support him - and any actions we take to remove him will only make them hate us more. |
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23rd April 2017, 07:56 PM | #94 |
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Indeed, best to not make the wretch a martyr. Let him hoist himself on his own petard... unless he really gets dangerous.
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23rd April 2017, 08:25 PM | #95 |
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
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23rd April 2017, 08:26 PM | #96 |
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
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23rd April 2017, 08:46 PM | #97 |
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23rd April 2017, 08:49 PM | #98 |
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
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23rd April 2017, 08:50 PM | #99 |
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"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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23rd April 2017, 08:50 PM | #100 |
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I think part of him hoisting himself (best self, truly great self, believe me) is having this dialogue ongoing. When you Google "Is Donald Trump Mentally Ill" and get 12,000,000 responses in .43 seconds, you've got someone at a considerable political disadvantage.
All you need is one celebrity (Obama, Mark Cuban, Rosie, Arnie) to tweet about the "35 Psychiatric Professionals say Donnie the T is cray-cray" and it's game over. Donald will go on Fox and Friends and do his best Captain Queeg imitation. |
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Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. |
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23rd April 2017, 09:02 PM | #101 |
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Do you believe that it is impossible for professionals in the field to make an accurate diagnosis without personal interviews, regardless of how much other available data there is? Or do you think only that it is unethical to arrive at such a diagnosis publicly, regardless of whether or not it is based in fact? Should they keep silent out of some arbitrary ethical principle, even if their concern is justified by an abundance of evidence, and the welfare of the country is at stake? Also, what is this ethical principle based on? Are professional groups condemning these statements and calling for the responsible parties to lose their licenses? |
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
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23rd April 2017, 09:09 PM | #102 |
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"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump |
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23rd April 2017, 09:09 PM | #103 |
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
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23rd April 2017, 09:25 PM | #104 |
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
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23rd April 2017, 09:29 PM | #105 |
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The Australian Family Association's John Morrissey was aghast when he learned Jessica Watson was bidding to become the youngest person to sail round the world alone, unaided and without stopping. |
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23rd April 2017, 09:31 PM | #106 |
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
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23rd April 2017, 10:14 PM | #107 |
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Makes sense.
I haven't interacted with many shrinks overall but I would hope they are well versed in posing questions in a manner which lessens the ability of the patient to consistently deceive them. Granted of course that all shrinks and patients are not created equal, some more capable than others. I don't doubt that a qualified expert can make a baseline diagnosis after overlooking a large amount of personal interactions a single person has. Honestly though, I don't believe the number of doctors that participated and shared their opinion dedicated the time to take in the vast amount of information we have on Trump. There is a vast amount of information to parse through for these guys, but I don't think they all dedicated the time and energy to going over all of it to base there decisions. Not that they have to, but putting forward the amount available does not sway me. Guess I am pessimistic to the work ethic of others when they feel the diagnosis should be obvious to everyone. Again, this doesn't negate their experience or opinion, just that saying we have hundreds of hours of Trump interactions to base an opinion on doesn't mean these guys have actually taken the time to use those resources before coming up with their diagnosis. My issues arise from two things mainly with the statements put forward. First that the psychiatric interview is the least statistically reliable method of forming a diagnosis. Do we not use this process to determine competency of defendants in court proceedings? If it is the least statistically reliable method, why is it used? What methods are more reliable and why are they not implemented? Beyond that, the sentence - “I’ve worked with murderers and rapists. I can recognise dangerousness from a mile away. You don’t have to be an expert on dangerousness or spend fifty years studying it like I have in order to know how dangerous this man is.” This seems to equate Trump with murderers and rapists in relation to how dangerous he is, without the caveat of taking into account his position as President. Saying his personality traits/disorders are dangerous due to the position he holds seems to be a much different position than what is put forth. Maybe that distinction shouldn't matter, but to me it is a very callous omission for a professional to make. |
23rd April 2017, 10:32 PM | #108 |
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23rd April 2017, 10:41 PM | #109 |
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I don't exactly agree with your statement but I will grant that the courts have other priorities to which I can see your point of view. Expediency and cost come to mind, which I agree have an overriding influence on something like this. But my questions still stands in relation to it being the least statistically reliable method. If there is no other method that can outweigh those, then the statement is not accurate or we are doing something very wrong.
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23rd April 2017, 10:52 PM | #110 |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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23rd April 2017, 10:52 PM | #111 |
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I haven't either, but last time I looked this was a particular problem which was not addressable if the interviewed is highly functional and knew what he was interrogated upon.
At some point you have either to trust the answer, or you are searching for a particular one , in which case it isn't anymore a diagnosis, isn't it ? |
23rd April 2017, 10:53 PM | #112 |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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23rd April 2017, 10:55 PM | #113 |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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23rd April 2017, 11:11 PM | #114 |
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I don't doubt there is an issue with highly intelligent and knowledgeable patients capable of deceiving their shrinks and causing missed diagnosis or misdiagnosis. Maybe the inclusion of outside information in conjuncture with the psychiatric evaluation lessens the error rate. I wonder what number of patients match your description and are capable of deceiving a trained professional to diminish the method entirely.
As to your second question, not sure if that is a dig at me or a sincere point to put forward. I am not questioning the diagnosis, only the accuracy of the method in which it is discerned. The expert quoted expresses that the method prescribed is not accurate. My focus is on this claim, not his personal diagnosis of Trump. |
23rd April 2017, 11:44 PM | #115 |
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"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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23rd April 2017, 11:47 PM | #116 |
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For those claiming this is just a political tactic, please read the following excerpt from an AP interview. Whatever label you want to put on it, Donald Trump is not a normal person:
Originally Posted by AP
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23rd April 2017, 11:59 PM | #117 |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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24th April 2017, 01:21 AM | #118 |
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"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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24th April 2017, 01:24 AM | #119 |
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"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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24th April 2017, 03:32 AM | #120 |
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We do these things not because they are easy, but because we thought they were going to be easy. Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos |
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