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27th May 2017, 07:03 PM | #1921 |
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There you go again, conveniently forgetting more than a few mainstream well qualified psychiatrists have noted Trump's mental disorder. I suppose your straw men are so much easier to battle.
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30th May 2017, 05:56 AM | #1922 |
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All Trump appears to want is pats on the back and adoration. Isn't that some sort of inferiority complex?
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30th May 2017, 06:00 AM | #1923 |
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
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30th May 2017, 06:02 AM | #1924 |
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I guess.
I don't know. He doesn't seem quite that confident. It's almost as if he _wishes_ he was that cool and awesome and loved, so he acts the part. It's quite pathetic actually. Sad. |
30th May 2017, 12:02 PM | #1925 |
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30th May 2017, 12:05 PM | #1926 |
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30th May 2017, 12:07 PM | #1927 |
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For the bazillionth time: what do you consider to be "more than a few"? Because right now we've got on the order of 40 people, many of whom are not psychiatrists, and many of whom are academics who don't practice medicine.
That's in a field of several thousands. I think "few" is a pretty apt description here. |
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30th May 2017, 12:50 PM | #1928 |
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Once again, the APA is a voluntary membership organization. They are not a licensing authority or certification board. Nobody is required to join. Their recommendations have no legal weight. They have no enforcement power.
It's fine to say shrinks should keep their mouths shut. But that doesn't invalidate the observations and conclusions that they choose to share, especially when supported by universally accessible evidence. |
30th May 2017, 12:51 PM | #1929 |
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30th May 2017, 01:07 PM | #1930 |
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30th May 2017, 02:48 PM | #1931 |
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30th May 2017, 03:16 PM | #1932 |
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Perhaps I have a wrong link. The one I found didn't include that phrasing, nor did it ask for credentials.
The diagnosis has meaning if done properly with consideration for confounding conditions. There is no "given", and the "label" means nothing other than that this is likely to be politically motivated. Although you're pretty spot on calling it a label as opposed to a diagnosis. |
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30th May 2017, 03:57 PM | #1933 |
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Put any label on it that you like; I'm still 100% sure that DJT will continue to exhibit the behavior pattern described in the DSM as NPD. And that's very bad for the country, as we've already seen. If your preferred diagnostic technique produced a different prediction, I'd bet a lot of money that it's wrong.
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30th May 2017, 04:22 PM | #1934 |
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Latest relative news:
Aljazeera:The United States of insanity Apparently Trump is making us all look bad.
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Dr Lee is making the rounds to make her case and raise the alarm: Salon: LISTEN: The “state of emergency” around Donald Trump and mental health A Patheos psychiatrist weighs in: Patheos: On the Necessity and Perils of Declaring Trump Mentally Unfit for the Presidency
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He doesn't dispute the NPD diagnosis:
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30th May 2017, 04:26 PM | #1935 |
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This is true.
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Doctors don't have to be members of any professional organization but those professional organizations still have a huge influence on the way they practice medicine and the legal framework under which they do so.
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30th May 2017, 04:36 PM | #1936 |
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Why bother? |
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30th May 2017, 04:57 PM | #1937 |
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That isn't really a professional diagnosis, now is it? They are free to make such commentary but it has no bearing on anyone's actual mental state nor is it intended to be a "professional opinion." Irrelevant.
Quote:
Here is a snippet you missed:
Originally Posted by Salon
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Originally Posted by Dr. Spitznas
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30th May 2017, 06:35 PM | #1938 |
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Trump type demolished by Bertie Wooster in the late 30's:
“The trouble with you, Spode, is that just because you have succeeded in inducing a handful of half-wits to disfigure the London scene by going about in black shorts, you think you’re someone. You hear them shouting 'Heil, Spode!' and you imagine it is the Voice of the People. That is where you make your bloomer. What the Voice of the People is saying is: 'Look at that frightful ass Spode swanking about in footer bags! Did you ever in your puff see such a perfect perisher?’ ” |
30th May 2017, 06:53 PM | #1939 |
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Standards are important in medicine, but they are not dogmatic.
There is always room for some leeway that providers' education and experience allow. This is what some of you are not grasping. If medicine was just a matter of following algorithms then computers could do the diagnosing. But you simply can't cover everything in a protocol. You have to have an educated experienced person evaluate the patient. In this case the one thing the so called 'rule' is missing is allowing for a patient like Trump whose decades of behavior is easily uncovered without an in-person exam. If one insisted on the in-person exam knowing full well there was not anything you were going to discover, especially given personality disorders where patients lack insight and in most cases live in their alternative-fact world, why would you insist on adding that meaningless addition to your data collection to make the diagnosis because it was in some rule book? Every protocol and algorithm needs an allowance for exceptions. That is what the provider's judgement adds. |
30th May 2017, 07:02 PM | #1940 |
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30th May 2017, 07:10 PM | #1941 |
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30th May 2017, 07:14 PM | #1942 |
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Talk about dogma, do you think everything I cited in that post went to diagnosis? Who said that was about anyone's professional diagnosis? Of course it was opinion and I'm pretty sure I said nothing else.
No, Dr Lee was not the initial alarmist. She's actually a late comer. Dr G and Dr F have been at the forefront of this discussion and Dr Gartner started the Duty to Warn petition that the 55,000 professionals signed on Change.org. Dr Lee organized a conference on Trump. People do write books out of passion. Not everyone writes shock-jock books to sell to the people they've riled up. It's against the MA to quote too much. I tried to quote small snippets then discussed them. The thread reader can then decide if they want to read more from the link. I suspect you should look in the mirror to see the person here that lacks objectivity. As for the hyperbole, some professionals actually are alarmed. We have a POTUS with a serious mental disorder. That should worry everyone. You are welcome to dismiss all these thousands of psychiatrists and mental health professionals. You already have. You told us over and over that you read something on the Internet so you know better than all of them. |
31st May 2017, 08:05 AM | #1943 |
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31st May 2017, 08:12 AM | #1944 |
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Ah, so it was off topic.
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I sure did. I read the practice and ethical standards of the profession. When professionals don't follow those I think it's important to point that out. I don't think it's something that we should accept as an actual professional opinion with any validity -even if it does confirm our biases. It's sensationalism and we should want mental health professionals to refrain from that. I think it cheapens the medical profession as a whole -a profession I have a great deal of respect for. |
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31st May 2017, 08:12 AM | #1945 |
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Contributors to conference proceedings do not get paid, in my experience. I don't know whether editors of the proceedings get paid. I would guess not, but I could be wrong.
Academic publications are generally aimed at increasing the prestige of the authors and their institutions. They are not about money, but citations. So I think you're barking up the wrong tree. |
31st May 2017, 08:45 AM | #1946 |
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31st May 2017, 08:48 AM | #1947 |
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31st May 2017, 09:03 AM | #1948 |
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So we're now up to 55,751 out of 552,000... so around 10%.
Point of order - that 552,000 includes only explicit mental health professionals: Psychologists, Psychiatrists, Mental Health & Substance Abuse Social Workers and Counselors, and Marriage & Family Therapists. It doesn't include the other social workers, counselors, and Family Practitioners who make up over 600,000 more people, nor does it include any psychiatric or mental health nurses not specifically licensed as social workers or counselors. Depending on what the petition includes as an acceptable profession, and whether it accepts non-practicing academics, we're looking at somewhere between about 3% and 10%. https://psychcentral.com/lib/mental-...us-statistics/ |
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31st May 2017, 09:24 AM | #1949 |
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Maybe. But my understanding is that this is going to be a mass-market book, not an academic publication. As Dr. Gartner said in his speech:
4) We have signed a contract with an agent to sell an edited book, entitled Duty to Warn, edited by Bandy Lee, Lance Dodes and myself that puts in one volume 25 senior academic psychiatrists and psychologists, and journalists, including two of today’s featured speakers Judith Herman and Robert J. Lifton. They collectively make the case for warning the public about Trump’s illness, explore what that illness might be, discuss how he has damaged the mental health of the large parts of the general public and specific vulnerable populations, and what the dire consequences of his presidency might entail. It's just too easy to see the gleaming hardcover in racks at Barnes' and Noble's: DUTY TO WARN: Donald Trump's Dangerous Mental Illness and the Potential for America's Destruction. $28.95. And, as far as I know, this was not really an official conference with any academic standing whatsoever. |
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31st May 2017, 09:41 AM | #1950 |
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If we're lucky the book will be out before the county goes down in flames.
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31st May 2017, 10:02 AM | #1951 |
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31st May 2017, 10:16 AM | #1952 |
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The topic is the psychiatrists/ologists who have diagnosed Donald Trump with a mental illness. The article is not by a mental health professional nor is it diagnosing him with anything.
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OTOH there are somewhere in the vicinity of 50 MHPs who have publicly either sent a letter to someone, participated in this meeting or otherwise come out with a professional opinion. I stand by 50 MHPs until the evidence shows otherwise. |
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31st May 2017, 10:26 AM | #1953 |
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31st May 2017, 10:36 AM | #1954 |
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31st May 2017, 11:02 AM | #1955 |
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31st May 2017, 11:38 AM | #1956 |
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31st May 2017, 11:46 AM | #1957 |
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31st May 2017, 11:50 AM | #1958 |
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31st May 2017, 11:53 AM | #1959 |
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31st May 2017, 11:57 AM | #1960 |
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