|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
24th April 2017, 09:07 PM | #201 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9,626
|
They (or at least I) didn't mean that they have mental disorders.
Trump is obviously mentally disordered. And I don't say that because I disagree with him. I say that because he displays symptoms of mental disorders. I disagree with Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan. I do not think they are mentally ill. Just complete scumbags.
Quote:
|
24th April 2017, 09:09 PM | #202 |
Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 11,360
|
Like I said, I've seen the accusations on this forum for years. It rings a little hollow. I get that you guys don't like Trump. Hell, I don't like him either. But I don't feel the need to label every politician that I don't like as "mentally ill." I'd rather focus on the issues rather than an irrelevant and distracting discussion about their mental state.
Quote:
Quote:
|
__________________
Hello. |
|
24th April 2017, 09:10 PM | #203 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9,626
|
|
24th April 2017, 09:36 PM | #204 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,386
|
Oh for pity's sake! What nether region did you pull that out of?
It's a professional organization, not a regulating body. Needless to say you don't have a clue which unethical actions might affect one's license or who would report such action. And you obviously don't understand what a position paper is or how it affects or doesn't affect one's practice. Try sex with your patients or diverting narcotics. Gross negligence, maybe, depending on the circumstances and you won't find the APA making any such report. They'd not only be afraid of being sued, it's not one of their functions. And expel one from the organization for voicing a political opinion? I think not. |
24th April 2017, 10:07 PM | #205 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 22,557
|
Trump clearly falls outside the norms of behavior- it's the reason why so many people voted for him.
Moderates wanted to believe that he was perfectly sane, playing a slightly deranged person - they didn't consider that he might be totally bonkers, trying to play an only slightly deranged person. |
__________________
“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
|
25th April 2017, 12:12 AM | #206 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,157
|
[/quote]I've made plenty of mistakes in life, which is why I go after leftist ideology and not people personally. People need to be allowed to fail, not held to a standard of perfection. Your side has taken this type of discourse to a new level. I hope my side is up to the challenge of meeting it. [/quote]
|
25th April 2017, 12:41 AM | #207 |
Becoming Beth
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of)
Posts: 27,292
|
|
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
|
25th April 2017, 01:01 AM | #208 |
Becoming Beth
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of)
Posts: 27,292
|
There is a world of difference between a bunch of people on an internet forum using hyperbole to express themselves, and medical professionals offering carefully considered diagnoses within the area of their expertise in spite of the danger it might present to their careers. It's more than a little bit dishonest for you to try and pretend that the two are the same.
Quote:
I don't believe this is even faintly a matter of labeling every politician someone doesn't like as mentally ill. I have to wonder where you hang out that it actually happens. Maybe a little hyperbole on occasion. Trump is not by any means falling within any standard expressions of behavior. He has created his own, new level of disconnect with reality that even the most rabid of traditional politician has been unable to equal. Do you think it is all an act? |
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
|
25th April 2017, 01:07 AM | #209 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,092
|
You are in serious denial: Neither Trump nor the reaction to Trump are like anything in my lifetime. As someone who thinks it is an issue that the most powerful man in the world is either delusional or an extraordinarily brazen liar who constantly exhibits bizarre and irrational behavior, I'd like to hear your explanation for why you think that's irrelevant.
|
25th April 2017, 01:23 AM | #210 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,157
|
Perhaps. Why don't you provide some?
1. it's remarkable how many Trump supporters say this. 2. Maybe you can present some examples from the past... 6 months(?) where people on the forum have posed a serious or even semi-serious accusation about the mental health of either the other GOP presidential candidates, or even Trump appointees. I'm not sure you will find it that easy to prove that people on this forum feel the need to label every politician that I don't like as "mentally ill." |
25th April 2017, 01:42 AM | #211 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 20,952
|
|
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
|
25th April 2017, 04:02 AM | #212 |
Poisoned Waffles
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 68,744
|
|
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
|
25th April 2017, 04:04 AM | #213 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
|
Personally I always personally interview raccoons before I decide if they have rabies or not.
|
25th April 2017, 04:06 AM | #214 |
Poisoned Waffles
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 68,744
|
But it's not a political opinion they're expressing, it's a psychiatric one. They cannot have it both ways and simultaneously demand respect from the pulpit of their profession while also catagorizing it as a purely political opinion and therefore free speech without the constraints of professionalism.
Diagnosis without examination is unprofessional. Full stop. |
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
|
25th April 2017, 04:07 AM | #215 |
Poisoned Waffles
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 68,744
|
|
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
|
25th April 2017, 04:08 AM | #216 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
|
Someone says something obviously correct and someone else says you can't say that because of the rules. Just another day at the academy.
|
25th April 2017, 04:09 AM | #217 |
Poisoned Waffles
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 68,744
|
|
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
|
25th April 2017, 04:11 AM | #218 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9,626
|
|
25th April 2017, 04:12 AM | #219 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
|
|
25th April 2017, 04:17 AM | #220 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
|
How many courses/books on philosophy of science have you consumed? Give me a break. Clearly this is a matter of what constitutes a proper and reliable observation. If Trump went to a therapist he would be less honest than he was in his campaign speeches about what he really thinks, anyone who treats narcissists will tell you that... We have his behavior, reliable accounts of private behavior, the statements of long-time acquaintances, family and friends, all colored by their own biases and that is the professional job to be done. To say well a personal interview with him means relatively nothing, that's a fact. Everyone knows it, but, rules are rules. And they broke the rules. The academy really warms the soul doesn't it?
|
25th April 2017, 04:18 AM | #221 |
Pi
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 21,797
|
Are you saying that there has been no examination? I suspect they've examined an awful lot of factors. Or that any examination without the consent of the subject cannot produce a valid result? Or that examination without being 'hands on' with the subject cannot produce a valid result? I'm not sure how one would successfully diagnose a hostile subject as in any way mentally deficient if one cannot diagnose without the consent of the subject. |
__________________
Up the River! Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted] |
|
25th April 2017, 04:22 AM | #222 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
|
The rules are pretty much political posturing, oh we always use our expertise to comment on public matters, except for the most important public matters, we don't want to act too big for our britches, we are too transcendentally fair to do that! Posturing political nonsense of the worst kind while pretending not to be political... sad.
|
25th April 2017, 04:24 AM | #223 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
|
Eating a sandwich is not a political act. Keeping your mouth shut on a political matter is a political act. They are expressing their politics the other way and you call them unprofessional? What a stupid cult.
|
25th April 2017, 04:26 AM | #224 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
|
|
25th April 2017, 04:26 AM | #225 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 32,635
|
Maybe we can have a compromise on this. Psychiatrists can not, accurately, declare Trump mentally ill because he has not been diagnosed. However, we can accept their declaration that Trump is exhibiting behaviors of a mentally ill person.
Personally, I think he is mentally ill because he exhibits such behavior. If he talks like he's unstable, and acts like he's unstable, he's probably unstable. I doubt the psychiatrists are forming their opinions on partisan politics. If they did, I wonder why they never declared a POTUS mentally ill before. Trump is the first, except for maybe Reagan, who did prove to have a cognitive debilitating disease. |
__________________
1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
|
25th April 2017, 04:30 AM | #226 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
|
What the hell do people think a diagnosis is? They talk to the person, they talk to the family, they ask them pointed questions regarding their mental state and gauge the reactions. Hundreds of journalists have asked him and the people that know him the right questions. What you have to believe, and believe me, this is really, really funny to me, is that Trump would somehow answer differently in the hell has frozen over situation where he would actually talk to a shrink. This is such a big joke it has made my day. April 25th, 2017, yep, I won't forget this day, the day I finally accepted that my beloved academy is a laughingstock.
|
25th April 2017, 04:31 AM | #227 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,145
|
|
25th April 2017, 04:31 AM | #228 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
|
|
25th April 2017, 04:33 AM | #229 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,145
|
|
25th April 2017, 04:35 AM | #230 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,145
|
This Thread is a witch.
It got better. |
25th April 2017, 04:37 AM | #231 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
|
Must be tough sticking up for Trump while pretending not to stick up for Trump.
|
25th April 2017, 04:39 AM | #232 |
Non credunt, semper verificare
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sigil, the city of doors
Posts: 14,571
|
That would be true if the examination is for a physical ailment. But for the mental ailment we are speaking of (narcicism among other) I contend that you probably get as good a grasp at the person mental situation from recorded conversation where she does not know she is speaking to a psychiater, than when she does and is aware her mental health is being evaluated.
|
25th April 2017, 04:40 AM | #233 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
|
pffft, not using their expertise to comment would be unprofessional since there is no chance of a proper diagnosis and their job is to make the world a more mentally healthy place, not kowtow to *********** mind-bogglingly hoity-toity political mores. What do you say to that?
|
25th April 2017, 04:41 AM | #234 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
|
|
25th April 2017, 04:42 AM | #235 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 32,635
|
I think it helps them sleep at night.
I wonder, is there a rule that says psychiatrists cannot give an opinion on the mental health of a person based on their behaviors, speeches, and other observations? Where is this rule written? Why is it that these psychiatrists' diagnosis not valid, yet Republicans in government could diagnose Terri Schiavo based on a video? |
__________________
1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
|
25th April 2017, 04:45 AM | #236 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,145
|
|
25th April 2017, 04:59 AM | #237 |
Pi
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 21,797
|
There must come a point, if behavior becomes erratic enough, for Trump to be positively diagnosed with some disorder.
Suppose he's found on the front lawn of the White house, clucking like a chicken and sincerely telling the world that his next one will be the best egg ever. At that point, would the stance still be 'no diagnosis without examination, let him keep doing it'? |
__________________
Up the River! Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted] |
|
25th April 2017, 05:04 AM | #238 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9,626
|
I don't like George W Bush. Absolutely terrible president.
I never thought he was mentally disordered. The notion that people are saying that Trump is crazy just because we don't like him is laughable. |
25th April 2017, 05:06 AM | #239 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
|
|
25th April 2017, 05:07 AM | #240 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,157
|
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|