|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
18th May 2017, 01:41 PM | #161 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
|
|
18th May 2017, 03:54 PM | #162 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 39,057
|
|
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
|
18th May 2017, 03:55 PM | #163 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 39,057
|
|
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
|
18th May 2017, 04:47 PM | #164 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,110
|
|
__________________
We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good. |
|
18th May 2017, 05:37 PM | #165 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 39,057
|
|
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
|
18th May 2017, 05:49 PM | #166 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,415
|
Next up would be Ryan.
House majority leader to colleagues in 2016: ‘I think Putin pays’ Trump
Quote:
So then it would fall to Orrin Hatch. |
18th May 2017, 06:20 PM | #167 |
Mafia Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 19,579
|
That brings the interesting question: would a coverup of a non-existing crime be a crime itself? Would it count as obstruction of justice?
That's a very real possibility. Remember, in the 3,000 lawsuits in his private career, he routinely destroyed evidence that even was already demanded in discovery. |
__________________
"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf "I think accuracy is important" - Vixen |
|
18th May 2017, 06:34 PM | #168 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,076
|
Obstruction of justice/illegally interfering with an investigation doesn't require an underlying crime by the person doing the obstructing. It doesn't even require the guilt of the person(s) being investigated. In other words, the FBI/Special Counsel could find that Flynn was guilty of no federal crime (or at least none that can be prosecuted) while anyone believed to have obstructed the investigation (or perhaps even attempted to do so) could still be prosecuted.
Also, the rules on impeachment are sufficiently vague ("high crimes and misdemeanors") that there could be insufficient evidence to prosecute a President for obstruction, but the Congress could still find that same President guilty of abusing their authority, and that this is sufficient cause to remove that President from office. |
18th May 2017, 06:51 PM | #169 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,488
|
|
18th May 2017, 06:54 PM | #170 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,710
|
I think it's cute that ANYONE doesn’t believe there is a crime behind this. Not that it will be proved. But that there was criminal activity at least by Flynn that Trump was trying to prevent coming to light.
Frankly, Trump’s behavior has been disgusting and dangerous. His total disrespect for the Constitution and the rule of law makes me I'll. That he requested Comey or anyone in law enforcement to swear loyalty to him is an assault on America. And reason enough to show him the door. |
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
|
18th May 2017, 11:07 PM | #171 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,396
|
|
__________________
"There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar "Let your ears hear this beautiful song that's hiding underneath the sound," Ed Kowalczyk. |
|
18th May 2017, 11:38 PM | #172 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9,626
|
What Donald Trump Needs to Know About Bob Mueller and Jim Comey
The short of it is that Mueller is about the last person that Trump would want investigating him unless he is is innocent. Muller will take the job very seriously and conduct a thorough investigation aimed at find the facts. And if the facts support criminal charges against anyone in the administration, he pursue them because he actually cares deeply about doing the right thing. If Trump is guilty, he should be scared ********. Though he's probably delusional enough to not really be worried. |
19th May 2017, 07:22 AM | #173 |
Time Person of the Year, 2006
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Right here!
Posts: 19,246
|
|
__________________
I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black. Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon |
|
19th May 2017, 07:34 AM | #174 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,595
|
|
__________________
"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump |
|
19th May 2017, 07:42 AM | #175 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,595
|
|
__________________
"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump |
|
19th May 2017, 07:48 AM | #176 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,929
|
Pence may be more screwed than Trump with regard to collusion with Russia and Flynn.
|
19th May 2017, 07:48 AM | #177 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,595
|
|
__________________
"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump |
|
19th May 2017, 07:50 AM | #178 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
|
|
19th May 2017, 07:54 AM | #179 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,929
|
|
19th May 2017, 08:12 AM | #180 |
Mafia Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 19,579
|
Fair enough. But impeachment is only part of the process; it's about the removal from office of a federal officer. If I understand correctly, that same person - be it Trump, or Pence, or anyone else in this executive - could afterwards also be indicted in a normal criminal court. If they couldn't, what was Ford's pardon of Nixon about?
|
__________________
"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf "I think accuracy is important" - Vixen |
|
19th May 2017, 08:15 AM | #181 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,076
|
|
19th May 2017, 09:42 AM | #182 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
|
|
19th May 2017, 02:07 PM | #183 | ||
Winking at the Moon
Administrator
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 16,711
|
|
||
__________________
Why can't you be more like Agatha? - Loss Leader |
|||
19th May 2017, 02:22 PM | #184 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 60,375
|
It depends on if what they did was a civil crime.You can be impeached and removed from office for offenses that are not punishable under statue law. If Trump was impeached and convicted for Abuse of Power, he would probably not be indictable. If he was impeached and removed for Obstruction of Justice, he would be.
|
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
|
19th May 2017, 02:38 PM | #185 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 6,140
|
And it just gets worse with every new development:
Trump: Firing 'nut job' FBI chief 'eased pressure'
Quote:
|
__________________
So I've started a blog about my writing. Check it out at: http://fourth-planet-problem.blogspot.com/ And my first book is on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077W322FX |
|
21st May 2017, 02:23 PM | #186 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,595
|
http://time.com/magazine/us/4783906/...189-no-20-u-s/ This is merely a rote cite. Not kidding myself that you'll read it. Nor should you kid yourself that Russia is on your "side". The article is a preview of coming attractions, so that's why I'm memorializing it here. |
__________________
"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump |
|
21st May 2017, 02:28 PM | #187 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,710
|
|
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
|
21st May 2017, 03:22 PM | #188 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,076
|
|
22nd May 2017, 04:32 PM | #189 |
Becoming Beth
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of)
Posts: 27,292
|
It isn't about lying, which many politicians and most conservative ones feel is part of their job description. It's about perjury, a crime which is (or at least used to be) heinous enough to warrant the impeachment of Bill Clinton for denying that he had a BJ from a consenting adult. (A denial which in other circumstances, it bears pointing out, would have been considered the gentlemanly thing to do by most people of his generation.) I suppose that to Republicans lying under oath about a perfectly legal (and dare I say quite common) act conducted in privacy between two consenting adults is far more egregious than lying under oath about potentially criminal acts, but that's just how they roll. I'm quite sure that their politics and ideology (not to mention their all-consuming lust for power at the expense of the entire country and anything even faintly resembling personal integrity) have nothing whatsoever to do with this seemingly contradictory application of what, for them, constitutes standards. At least, I'm sure that's what their defenders will say. |
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
|
24th May 2017, 07:17 PM | #190 |
post-pre-born
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 25,183
|
I think a murkier, middle-muddle is the most likely outcome. There won't be a provable quid pro quo so the Justice Department will not be able to prove collusion and thus charges against Trump will not be filed. So Trump/Republicans will bleat about that for a looooong time. On the other hand, there will be evidence of coordination or cooperation or whatever noun is chosen to show that the Russians did play a "significant" role in the election. Which the Dems will bleat about louder and louder as we approach November, 2018. Maybe some underlings will face doing some time in the Big House.
|
24th May 2017, 07:19 PM | #191 |
post-pre-born
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 25,183
|
|
24th May 2017, 07:25 PM | #192 |
post-pre-born
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 25,183
|
|
24th May 2017, 07:40 PM | #193 |
post-pre-born
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 25,183
|
|
24th May 2017, 07:42 PM | #194 |
post-pre-born
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 25,183
|
|
25th May 2017, 05:09 AM | #195 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
|
|
25th May 2017, 12:28 PM | #196 |
Becoming Beth
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of)
Posts: 27,292
|
Why characterize them as "secret" memos? Should he have been posting about them on Facebook every day? It seems like plenty of people knew it was something he did routinely when he felt it might be needful. I don't think it's that much of an altogether uncommon practice. Maybe more people should be doing it. |
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
|
25th May 2017, 12:35 PM | #197 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,710
|
|
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
|
25th May 2017, 12:41 PM | #198 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
|
|
25th May 2017, 12:46 PM | #199 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,167
|
|
12th June 2017, 04:25 PM | #200 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
|
Chris Ruddy: Trump is considering firing special counsel Mueller, who he considered for another position.He's considering the full Nixon. |
Thread Tools | |
|
|