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22nd May 2017, 11:30 AM | #41 |
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22nd May 2017, 11:33 AM | #42 | |||
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I didn't. This is basically exactly a quote from him, which sounded silly, but that's why I included it.
It is your projection that there's some massive racism going on here instead of some over-amplified one-off behaviors. This fits well with your worldview of what's going on, which is, of course, why a thread like this is a good one. Instead of approaching it, yet again, from a "what's wrong with Kansas?" point of view, well...
4:15 is the relevant part. This hasn't changed. You are dancing around on irrelevancies. 6:20 is also fascinating. |
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"Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right? |
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22nd May 2017, 11:36 AM | #43 |
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22nd May 2017, 11:39 AM | #44 |
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22nd May 2017, 11:44 AM | #45 | |||
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22nd May 2017, 12:01 PM | #46 |
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I think the lowest his approval rating has been among Republicans is something like 75%, so that seems to be about what he can count on with his normal run of failures and personal defects. For it to go much below that, I think you'd have to have a major national security failure, an obvious economic collapse or a corruption scandal bigger and nastier than anything we've yet seen. These things would also have to happen in such a way that Trump would be personally blamed for them by his supporters and I think that's a tall order.
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22nd May 2017, 12:15 PM | #47 |
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What this question boils down to is what percentage of Trump voters are hardcore Trump supporters,and how many voted for what they though was the lesser of two evils.
What concerns me is how many people here buy into the "All Trump Voters Are Evil Idiots" meme, which IMHO is simplistic and dangerous. |
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22nd May 2017, 12:21 PM | #48 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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22nd May 2017, 12:24 PM | #49 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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22nd May 2017, 12:31 PM | #50 |
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Even Trump supports in my circle of friends, who started out as "lesser of two evils" voters, have drunk so much Kool-Aid that now they're just dismissing any negative aspects of his presidency, no matter how well-confirmed, as the products of biased media.
"Evil idiots" is a bit strong, but how do you suggest piercing such a strongly reinforced bubble? |
22nd May 2017, 12:37 PM | #51 |
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Trump hardcore supporters have put there fingers in their ears and are saying "La-la-la-la-la, I can't hear you." They are willfully ignoring anything negative about Trump.
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22nd May 2017, 12:42 PM | #52 |
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As long as Fox doesn't report it or denies it ever happened , it will never shake the true believers.
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22nd May 2017, 12:46 PM | #53 |
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22nd May 2017, 01:06 PM | #54 |
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That is true. It's not about quality for a lot of his base, its about telling the powers that be to screw themselves. Then the republicans that didn't vote for him in the primary just voted for him because he was running as a republican. Party affiliation is as much about tribal affiliation as any kind of ideological choice folks have made. Trump ran by openly opposing a number of long standing GOP platforms, free trade, free market, for maternity leave....
We may not agree with the policies of most of the GOP candidates last year but atleast most of them had given a few minutes of thought to issues that affect the US. Trump was willfully and gleefully ignorant. |
22nd May 2017, 01:08 PM | #55 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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22nd May 2017, 01:08 PM | #56 |
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The problem is, that makes absolutely no sense. Trump isn't going to do anything for lower or middle class. In many cases, he's actively working against them.
Maybe that is what will eventually cause Trump to lose supporters, when more and more of the middle class here in the midwest becomes the lower class that can't afford insurance because of their pre-existing conditions and those coal jobs don't come roaring back. |
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22nd May 2017, 02:07 PM | #57 |
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22nd May 2017, 02:10 PM | #58 |
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We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good. |
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22nd May 2017, 02:16 PM | #59 |
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22nd May 2017, 02:20 PM | #60 |
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Not true. Trump says a lot more words than the press reports, so they what they are reporting is slanted. And this will always be true until the press gives equal weight to every word he says (or none, which might be preferable...).
OTOH, Trump also self-reports via Twitter. Those tweets are laid bare for all to read - no slant, no spin! The only person slanting that record is Trump himself. |
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We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good. |
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22nd May 2017, 02:32 PM | #61 |
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Mention banning guns.
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22nd May 2017, 02:34 PM | #62 |
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That's it! The way for Trump to lose all his supporters is join the Democratic Party. Then select liberal judges, improve Obamacare, raise taxes on the rich and help immigrants become legal citizens. Finally, he could admit to colluding with the Russians and declare Hillary the true winner.
If he did that his current support would instantly evaporate. But so long as he remains a Republican he will still get their broad support, because that is the only thing that really matters to them. |
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22nd May 2017, 02:36 PM | #63 |
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22nd May 2017, 02:51 PM | #64 |
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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22nd May 2017, 02:58 PM | #65 |
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"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump |
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22nd May 2017, 03:02 PM | #66 |
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"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe. |
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22nd May 2017, 03:04 PM | #67 |
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I remember a surreal moment during the debates when Trump actually supported the Democrats' plan to block gun sales to people on terror watch lists. I thought it might trigger some blow-back but nothing came of it. It was a deeply uncomfortable experience for me to see Donald Trump move to the left of me on an issue.
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22nd May 2017, 03:06 PM | #68 |
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"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump |
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22nd May 2017, 03:11 PM | #69 |
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No, I don't think he pays it all of it through his paycheck. I think his employer subsidizes it, because it can. They are a quasi-governmental entity, like a fire district, which enables them to tax and spend with relatively little oversight. They also collect revenue to deliver water so that does muddy the picture some.
Years ago with some reputable help I learned that forming special districts in this state was lucrative indeed. Sorry, it's complicated and right now memory fails me but you can create these districts fairly easily in rural areas, ensuring income through property taxes. I'd love to give you more information but it will have to wait. The districts have the power to raise taxes on everyone within their boundaries. I'm not clear what you mean when you ask, "You think he'll blame Trump for that?" If you mean would he blame Trump for a $1,200 monthly premium, I doubt it. It's not actually Trump's fault. Maybe he'll qualify for "recoverable tax credits" or whatever these subsidies are called. BTW $1,200/mo is way on the low side for two adults, age 62 and 53, plus a 24-year-old son and 22-year-old daughter. He may have cooled on Trump by now. It's probably not based on one issue and I don't know what fueled his support in the first place. Anti-Hillary, maybe. Increasing the military budget. His wife and daughter are Democrats so if everyone votes they cancel each other out. |
Last edited by Minoosh; 22nd May 2017 at 03:16 PM. Reason: Long post - bolded part to highlight part of answer |
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22nd May 2017, 03:14 PM | #70 |
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It was was an interesting issue. Civil libertarians should have hated it as it would have deprived some folks a constitutional right without due process yet it was gun control that many conservatives favored it because it only violated the rights of minorities, mostly, who knows who was actually on that list.
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22nd May 2017, 03:27 PM | #71 |
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What really concerns me lately is should Agent Orange ever be impeached, the likelihood of almost civil war.
Can you see his followers accepting it, or becoming so disenfranchised they end up behaving in totally unpredictable ways..... |
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member formally known as Renmarkable. |
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22nd May 2017, 03:36 PM | #72 |
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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22nd May 2017, 04:10 PM | #73 |
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Many of them will not vote in 2018 elections. If Trump by some accident runs in 2020, they will not be excited. He did not manage a total shake up. In fact he is looking like a normal Republican.
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22nd May 2017, 06:34 PM | #74 |
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22nd May 2017, 06:35 PM | #75 |
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22nd May 2017, 06:48 PM | #76 |
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Apathia hit on it. If Fox News started criticizing him on a regular basis - not constantly, but if their programming started largely reflecting reality - that would start crumbling some of his base. Otherwise, he could machine-gun a bus full of orphans, nuns, and puppies, and still not lose his core, because of the effective brainwashing to which they are subjected.
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22nd May 2017, 07:01 PM | #77 |
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No, more like the armed morons at the Malheur NWR. The ones that needed their juice boxes, blankees and binkys. The real non-girly men that gave up not with a fight, but a whimper.
Less an insurrection than a temper-tantrum, the only wimp that attempted to use his gun got blasted. Needed more quickdraw lessons I guess. |
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22nd May 2017, 07:06 PM | #78 |
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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22nd May 2017, 07:29 PM | #79 |
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22nd May 2017, 07:39 PM | #80 |
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