US Government default, debt ceiling, cash on hand etc. - Page 4

Suddenly · 2nd February 2023, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by Bob001

Moderate increases in the marginal income tax rates would hardly ignite mass suffering. At the end of the Obama administration the top personal income tax rate was 39.6%; the corporate tax rate was 35%. Today those numbers are 37% and 21%. I don't remember the Obama years as being a time of agony and deprivation. Just rolling back the Bush and Trump tax cuts and restoring the Obama rates would make a huge difference.

Keep in mind for a lot of the relevant people "pain" means an insufficient rate of return on their 401Ks and/or a small reduction in property values.

ahhell · 2nd February 2023, 08:25 AM

Only tangentially related to what's being discussed but related to the OP.

I have sympathy for what the Republicans are doing but they just don't have any credibility on the issues of debt and deficits. Nobody thinks they do and Trump showed that their constituents don't care. This all some weird pantomime to show that they're "Fighting".

Random · 2nd February 2023, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by ahhell

Only tangentially related to what's being discussed but related to the OP.

I have sympathy for what the Republicans are doing but they just don't have any credibility on the issues of debt and deficits. Nobody thinks they do and Trump showed that their constituents don't care. This all some weird pantomime to show that they're "Fighting".

It's how they win elections. Look up Jude Wanniski and the "Two Santas" theory. Basically, by pushing tax cuts when there is a Republican President, Republicans get associated with low taxes in the minds of voters. By pushing for spending cuts (but not specific programs) and balanced budgets with Democratic Presidents, they give Democrats no room for big spending increases, preventing Democrats from being associated with government benefits in the minds of voters.

It also leads to an ignorant voter base who can't keep taxation and spending policies in their head at the same time, but as long as enough voters are pushing the R button in elections...

The Great Zaganza · 2nd February 2023, 09:51 AM

yep.

Republicans WANT a huge deficit, because that money goes to their donors, one way or the other.
As always, they stand for privatization of profits and socialization of debt.

ahhell · 2nd February 2023, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Random

It's how they win elections. Look up Jude Wanniski and the "Two Santas" theory. Basically, by pushing tax cuts when there is a Republican President, Republicans get associated with low taxes in the minds of voters. By pushing for spending cuts (but not specific programs) and balanced budgets with Democratic Presidents, they give Democrats no room for big spending increases, preventing Democrats from being associated with government benefits in the minds of voters.

It also leads to an ignorant voter base who can't keep taxation and spending policies in their head at the same time, but as long as enough voters are pushing the R button in elections...

The thing there is that there constituents don't care so I don't see the point.

It does not lead to ignorant voters, ignorant voters exist regardless and they vote for both parties.

Random · 2nd February 2023, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by ahhell

The thing there is that there constituents don't care so I don't see the point.

It does not lead to ignorant voters, ignorant voters exist regardless and they vote for both parties.

The point is that the GOP puts on this song and dance about the deficit when there is a Democratic President in order to block Democrats from spending money doing popular things. This makes Democrats less popular, and helps the GOP take back power. That is the political dynamic at play. Block Dems from spending money on popular things when Dems are in power, enact popular tax cuts when the GOP is in power.

The state of the budget is irrelevant.

Bob001 · 2nd February 2023, 01:21 PM

One assessment of the budget:

Quote:

On the subject of government, most Americans sound conservative in the abstract and liberal in the specific. They say government should be small and the budget should be balanced, but when it comes to particular things government actually does, they support almost all of them and want to spend more money on them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...cuts-liberals/

2nd February 2023, 08:25 AM	#122
ahhell Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,097	Only tangentially related to what's being discussed but related to the OP. I have sympathy for what the Republicans are doing but they just don't have any credibility on the issues of debt and deficits. Nobody thinks they do and Trump showed that their constituents don't care. This all some weird pantomime to show that they're "Fighting".
ahhell Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,097

2nd February 2023, 09:47 AM	#123
Random Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,563	Originally Posted by ahhell Only tangentially related to what's being discussed but related to the OP. I have sympathy for what the Republicans are doing but they just don't have any credibility on the issues of debt and deficits. Nobody thinks they do and Trump showed that their constituents don't care. This all some weird pantomime to show that they're "Fighting". It's how they win elections. Look up Jude Wanniski and the "Two Santas" theory. Basically, by pushing tax cuts when there is a Republican President, Republicans get associated with low taxes in the minds of voters. By pushing for spending cuts (but not specific programs) and balanced budgets with Democratic Presidents, they give Democrats no room for big spending increases, preventing Democrats from being associated with government benefits in the minds of voters. It also leads to an ignorant voter base who can't keep taxation and spending policies in their head at the same time, but as long as enough voters are pushing the R button in elections...
Random Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,563	__________________ The road to Fascism is paved with people saying, "You're overreacting!".

2nd February 2023, 09:51 AM	#124
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 19,344	yep. Republicans WANT a huge deficit, because that money goes to their donors, one way or the other. As always, they stand for privatization of profits and socialization of debt.
	__________________ "The only true paradise is paradise lost" Marcel Proust

2nd February 2023, 10:20 AM	#125
ahhell Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,097	Originally Posted by Random It's how they win elections. Look up Jude Wanniski and the "Two Santas" theory. Basically, by pushing tax cuts when there is a Republican President, Republicans get associated with low taxes in the minds of voters. By pushing for spending cuts (but not specific programs) and balanced budgets with Democratic Presidents, they give Democrats no room for big spending increases, preventing Democrats from being associated with government benefits in the minds of voters. It also leads to an ignorant voter base who can't keep taxation and spending policies in their head at the same time, but as long as enough voters are pushing the R button in elections... The thing there is that there constituents don't care so I don't see the point. It does not lead to ignorant voters, ignorant voters exist regardless and they vote for both parties.
ahhell Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,097

2nd February 2023, 11:09 AM	#126
Random Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,563	Originally Posted by ahhell The thing there is that there constituents don't care so I don't see the point. It does not lead to ignorant voters, ignorant voters exist regardless and they vote for both parties. The point is that the GOP puts on this song and dance about the deficit when there is a Democratic President in order to block Democrats from spending money doing popular things. This makes Democrats less popular, and helps the GOP take back power. That is the political dynamic at play. Block Dems from spending money on popular things when Dems are in power, enact popular tax cuts when the GOP is in power. The state of the budget is irrelevant.
Random Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,563	__________________ The road to Fascism is paved with people saying, "You're overreacting!".

2nd February 2023, 08:13 AM	#121
Suddenly No Punting Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Not In Follansbee Posts: 5,353	Originally Posted by Bob001 Moderate increases in the marginal income tax rates would hardly ignite mass suffering. At the end of the Obama administration the top personal income tax rate was 39.6%; the corporate tax rate was 35%. Today those numbers are 37% and 21%. I don't remember the Obama years as being a time of agony and deprivation. Just rolling back the Bush and Trump tax cuts and restoring the Obama rates would make a huge difference. Keep in mind for a lot of the relevant people "pain" means an insufficient rate of return on their 401Ks and/or a small reduction in property values.

2nd February 2023, 01:21 PM	#127
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 16,343	One assessment of the budget: Quote: On the subject of government, most Americans sound conservative in the abstract and liberal in the specific. They say government should be small and the budget should be balanced, but when it comes to particular things government actually does, they support almost all of them and want to spend more money on them. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...cuts-liberals/