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Old 25th September 2022, 04:10 PM   #41
d4m10n
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
What's the point of the stunt?
Possibly to get a school board to say something serious like this in response to a massive pair of fake tits:
Quote:
HDSB recognizes the rights of students, staff, parents/guardians and community members to equitable treatment without discrimination based upon gender identity and gender expression. Gender identity and gender expression are protected grounds under the Ontario Human Rights Code
The more I think about it, this may be the best trolling I've seen in 2022.

Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
So I'll start a completely new thread so we can laugh at this bloke walking around with enormous fake tits. Isn't it hilarious?
I'm coming around to this view, yes. There is a special sort of humor where you think you might be getting punked by someone doing an homage to Andrew Geoffrey Kaufman or Sacha Baron Cohen; or maybe, just maybe, real life is doing the heavy lifting all by itself and the circus grade absurdity is just the way things really are now and I'll have to carefully calibrate my LOL reflexes accordingly.
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Old 25th September 2022, 04:16 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Possibly to get a school board to say something serious like this in response to a massive pair of fake tits:

The more I think about it, this may be the best trolling I've seen in 2022.

That's what seems to be implied by the image in the tweet I linked to in a previous post.

Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
I have no idea whether this take is correct, but it's worth posting.

https://twitter.com/Slatzism/status/1573730078583816197

Maybe Gord knows more about this.

I thought Gord might have some useful input as to whether this was true or not, as it refers to the teacher's (fairly recent) past behaviour, including a warning for "toxic masculinity". But it seems he only wants to have a laugh because it's funny, not to engage in serious discussion of the issues.

Might have been an idea to start the thread in Community in that case.

ETA: To address your edit, of course it's hilarious. It's particularly hilarious to people who aren't affected by the deeper issues highlighted by this incident. The loss of women's rights (does this bloke use the women's toilets at work?) and the child safeguarding concerns. Sure, let's laugh about it. But let's not say, I started this thread just to laugh about it because I don't want to face up to the serious issues behind it all.
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Old 25th September 2022, 04:50 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
That's what seems to be implied by the image in the tweet I linked to in a previous post.




I thought Gord might have some useful input as to whether this was true or not, as it refers to the teacher's (fairly recent) past behaviour, including a warning for "toxic masculinity". But it seems he only wants to have a laugh because it's funny, not to engage in serious discussion of the issues.

Might have been an idea to start the thread in Community in that case.

ETA: To address your edit, of course it's hilarious. It's particularly hilarious to people who aren't affected by the deeper issues highlighted by this incident. The loss of women's rights (does this bloke use the women's toilets at work?) and the child safeguarding concerns. Sure, let's laugh about it. But let's not say, I started this thread just to laugh about it because I don't want to face up to the serious issues behind it all.
Since you as intent on personalizing this so much. I can tell you that I don't find it funny. I am interested in the reactions of various groups particularly those of the Right thinking "Freedom Convey" folks. There are many serious issues I face on a daily basis but I cannot dedicate my concerns to those of one thread. If it is impossible to extract a discussion of a single issue from the Main Thread then sobeit and merge away.
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Old 25th September 2022, 05:04 PM   #44
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I do think that it's funny, but I also think it's an extremely serious issue. I have no idea why you want to extract this single example. What is it you don't want to talk about that you might stumble over in the thread where it's already being discussed? (I can assure you that thread is not debating whether transwomen have XX chromosomes.)

There is no reason why you can't inquire about "the reactions of various groups particularly those of the Right thinking "Freedom Convey" folks", whatever they are, in the thread where the issue belongs. There is no obligation on your part to engage in the question of whether this behaviour impinges on women's rights (again, is he using the women's toilets in that get-up?) or child safeguarding, if you don't want to.

I'd like to know whether the report that the man had been censured for "toxic masculinity" recently, and had mocked trans issues to his class, and is now doing this as some sort of reductio ad absurdum protest is true or not. You're perhaps in a position to find out.

I presume he is using the women's toilets at work, or his persona wouldn't be credible. What do the female teachers think about having to share their intimate space with that thing? You might have some information on that too? If they are uncomfortable, are they prevented from expressing this discomfort for fear of being branded transphobic?

Are the children treating this as a joke, or are they creeped out about it, or do they believe (as Canadian law believes) that this is an actual woman, just as much a woman as any of their mothers? It's likely there are children in all three groups. What sort of effect is it having on their young minds?

These are all serious issues. They're also wider issues that go way beyond this weirdo and his exploding milk bombs. Which is why there is a thread about it all. Which for some reason you don't seem to want to engage with, while at the same time having a specific agenda you want to pursue with this particular case.
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Old 25th September 2022, 05:50 PM   #45
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I've seen a few posters berate the johnnies-come-lately to the ninth and tenth iterations of The Thread Which Shall Not Be Named, mostly for not being spun up on all the relevant jargon and major issues. It makes perfect sense to me why people would want to try a much narrower and newer topic instead.

ETA: I don't think this subthread will last very long anyhow, so long as someone doesn't come along to argue that self-identifying as a woman with preternaturally large breasts is a valid lived condition.
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Old 25th September 2022, 06:39 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Or what if... there was a megathread about the corruption or otherwise of the Maryland police and yet I wanted to talk only about the Adnan Syed case. Would you say that that is wrong, and that all topics related to Maryland policing should be folded into the megathread?
Okay, fair enough. You really want to talk about this, but you don't want to talk about it in terms of trans identity in public policy.

So go ahead. Say whatever it is you so much want to say about this incident, that has nothing to do with trans identity in public policy.
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Old 25th September 2022, 07:50 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Okay, fair enough. You really want to talk about this, but you don't want to talk about it in terms of trans identity in public policy.

So go ahead. Say whatever it is you so much want to say about this incident, that has nothing to do with trans identity in public policy.
I think it is probably a hoax or a piss-take in the same manner as Pastafarians or Jedi Knights.
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Old 25th September 2022, 07:54 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I've seen a few posters berate the johnnies-come-lately to the ninth and tenth iterations of The Thread Which Shall Not Be Named, mostly for not being spun up on all the relevant jargon and major issues. It makes perfect sense to me why people would want to try a much narrower and newer topic instead.

ETA: I don't think this subthread will last very long anyhow, so long as someone doesn't come along to argue that self-identifying as a woman with preternaturally large breasts is a valid lived condition.
This was my experience.

I think I participated a couple of times with suggestions that maybe we should find some kind of accommodation while recognizing the obvious sex differences between men and women.

I remember that both sides bit my head off for not recognizing the extreme versions of their own and the other side.
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Old 25th September 2022, 07:57 PM   #49
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The trans angle would get a lot more traction if this had anything to do with being trans. Seems like it's got more to do with being a jag off at the school's expense.
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Old 25th September 2022, 08:00 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I think it is probably a hoax or a piss-take in the same manner as Pastafarians or Jedi Knights.
What makes you think it's a hoax?

What makes you think it's a piss take?

It can't be both. Either someone is manufacturing evidence (who?), or someone is doing a real thing for a humorous purpose.

If it's the latter, why is a schoolroom the appropriate venue for such pranks? It isn't.

Anyway, it's clear you don't believe this is a real trans person, expressing a real trans identity. But if it were? What would your answer be then?
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Old 25th September 2022, 08:02 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The trans angle would get a lot more traction if this had anything to do with being trans. Seems like it's got more to do with being a jag off at the school's expense.
Swap society for school and you may be on to something about the trans activist agenda.

Imagine the cultural climate in which someone could feel confident in trying a display of this nature. Now understand - not imagine! - you live in such a cultural climate. A climate you have almost certainly contributed to, in various small ways that add up.
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Old 25th September 2022, 08:14 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The trans angle would get a lot more traction if this had anything to do with being trans.
The school district already explained the connection to trans rights:
Quote:
HDSB recognizes the rights of students, staff, parents/guardians and community members to equitable treatment without discrimination based upon gender identity and gender expression. Gender identity and gender expression are protected grounds under the Ontario Human Rights Code
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Old 25th September 2022, 08:19 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The trans angle would get a lot more traction if this had anything to do with being trans. Seems like it's got more to do with being a jag off at the school's expense.

What an extraordinary take. This is absolutely all about the trans issue. Do you seriously think that this joker would even have contemplated coming to work in this clown suit if laws hadn't been enacted that allow anyone to be whichever sex they choose, and which protect their right to express this "gender identity" in whatever way they choose?

This is either one of the most extreme cases of autogynaephilic fetishism we've seen which has been emboldened by the new laws protecting anything "trans" from the slightest scrutiny, or it is an attempt by someone who thinks the laws are asinine, and who has some exhibitionist tendencies of his own, to manufacture a reductio ad absurdum to illustrate the absurdity of what is now not only permitted but protected in law.

The school's response is 100% confirming that he is allowed to come to work looking like that, because his "gender identity and gender expression" are protected in law. This is precisely why this is all about the trans issue.

Quote:
HDSB recognizes the rights of students, staff, parents/guardians and community members to equitable treatment without discrimination based upon gender identity and gender expression. Gender identity and gender expression are protected grounds under the Ontario Human Rights Code.

So what about the children that are weirded out over all this? What about the children who are being told they must treat this man LARPing "exploding milk bombs" as if he's as much a woman as their own mothers? What about the girls in the class, who are already probably well aware of their male classmates' interest in mammary tissue? What about the female staff members, who have to tolerate this man in their intimate spaces, and treat him as a member of their own sex? What about the school becoming a laughing-stock in the wider community?

None of that matters because "gender identity".

Tell me again how this doesn't have anything to do with "being trans"?
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Old 25th September 2022, 08:33 PM   #54
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What's the acceptable breast size for that job? Surely if it's that important a pair of points it would be in the documentation during hiring.
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Old 25th September 2022, 08:37 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
What an extraordinary take. This is absolutely all about the trans issue. Do you seriously think that this joker would even have contemplated coming to work in this clown suit if laws hadn't been enacted that allow anyone to be whichever sex they choose, and which protect their right to express this "gender identity" in whatever way they choose?
I hear that. What I'm saying is that what the teacher is doing is being an insufferable douche. That he attached said douchebaggery to trans rights is incidental.

With apologies to theprestige, this reminds me of a black man getting caught knocking off a liquor store, and blaming the arrest on racism. Yes, it is kinda sorta about race. No, it's really not.

Quote:
This is either one of the most extreme cases of autogynaephilic fetishism we've seen which has been emboldened by the new laws protecting anything "trans" from the slightest scrutiny, or it is an attempt by someone who thinks the laws are asinine, and who has some exhibitionist tendencies of his own, to manufacture a reductio ad absurdum to illustrate the absurdity of what is now not only permitted but protected in law.

The school's response is 100% confirming that he is allowed to come to work looking like that, because his "gender identity and gender expression" are protected in law. This is precisely why this is all about the trans issue.
I'd like to think this is what it's all about: a transwoman saying "can everyone stop walking on eggshells about transfolk? We are a lot like you, and you can be pissed off at us just like everyone else when we are ********, too".

Quote:
So what about the children that are weirded out over all this? What about the children who are being told they must treat this man LARPing "exploding milk bombs" as if he's as much a woman as their own mothers? What about the girls in the class, who are already probably well aware of their male classmates' interest in mammary tissue? What about the female staff members, who have to tolerate this man in their intimate spaces, and treat him as a member of their own sex? What about the school becoming a laughing-stock in the wider community?

None of that matters because "gender identity".
As noted earlier, the kids themselves are largely unimpressed. Dunno if that is good or bad.
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Old 25th September 2022, 08:38 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
What's the acceptable breast size for that job? Surely if it's that important a pair of points it would be in the documentation during hiring.

Someone linked earlier to a Twitter thread that pointed out the practical legal difficulties of this.

You can't discriminate on the grounds of bust size, because some (invariably overweight, which this guy is not) women have busts that size.
You can't say no falsies, because there are women who have had breast cancer surgery who wear prosthetic breasts.
You can't say bras are compulsory, I don't think.
You might get somewhere with the visible nipples thing, but women would be pretty freaked if they had to check that no nipple could possibly show, every morning.
I still think they should make him tie that hair back.
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Old 25th September 2022, 08:42 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
What's the acceptable breast size for that job? Surely if it's that important a pair of points it would be in the documentation during hiring.
It's in the guidebook right next to teachers gratuitously strapping on two foot dildos and volleyballs under lycra bike shorts:

"Just don't do this on school grounds, jerkwads".

Or just maybe it's one of those things an adult doesn't need to be told.
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Old 25th September 2022, 08:45 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
The school district already explained the connection to trans rights:
It must be a hoot to dress up in kink garb and make the school say they like it. Real power play, that.
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Old 25th September 2022, 08:46 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I hear that. What I'm saying is that what the teacher is doing is being an insufferable douche. That he attached said douchebaggery to trans rights is incidental.

With apologies to theprestige, this reminds me of a black man getting caught knocking off a liquor store, and blaming the arrest on racism. Yes, it is kinda sorta about race. No, it's really not.

I'd like to think this is what it's all about: a transwoman saying "can everyone stop walking on eggshells about transfolk? We are a lot like you, and you can be pissed off at us just like everyone else when we are ********, too".

Well, that's an original take, for sure. Improve public perception of trans people by being obnoxious, so that trans people will be accepted as people who can also be obnoxious? Srsly?

We've seen so many outrageous performances of transwomanhood that even this tends to be accepted as just another autogynaephile who's gone rather further than most of them go. On the other hand there has been a suggestion that the teacher opposes the recent law change that permits and protects the behaviour he is now performing, and is making a point (or even a couple of points) by taking such behaviour to a ridiculous extreme.

In the first case, he's "really" trans. In the second case he isn't. With the law in its present state, how can you tell the difference? You can't. because everyone's gender identity has to be taken at their own word, which is implicitly believed. And it doesn't matter. The law protects that behaviour whether he's for real or piss-taking.

Maybe that's the discussion you want?

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
As noted earlier, the kids themselves are largely unimpressed. Dunno if that is good or bad.

As noted earlier, reports differ. There are probably kids who are unimpressed. There are also probably kids who are being psychologically damaged by having to treat this man as if he is as much a woman as their own mothers. Is this OK?
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Old 25th September 2022, 08:51 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
It's in the guidebook right next to teachers gratuitously strapping on two foot dildos and volleyballs under lycra bike shorts:

"Just don't do this on school grounds, jerkwads".

Or just maybe it's one of those things an adult doesn't need to be told.

But consider this. Most times when an adult does something outrageous that isn't specifically prohibited because "you shouldn't need to be told", authority will at the very least take them aside and explain that this is not acceptable behaviour and please go home and change. That has not happened in this case. Instead the school has issued a statement confirming that he is entirely within his rights and they will support him in his "gender identity".

What would have happened if he had been taken aside and asked not to come to work looking like that? I predict lawsuits based on exactly the law the school is quoting in its defence of his behaviour.

This is the reality of Canada in the 21st century, and other countries that have enacted "self-ID" laws. That is exactly the point, whether he's a real AGP or whether he's at it.
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Old 25th September 2022, 08:51 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What makes you think it's a hoax?

What makes you think it's a piss take?

It can't be both. Either someone is manufacturing evidence (who?), or someone is doing a real thing for a humorous purpose.

If it's the latter, why is a schoolroom the appropriate venue for such pranks? It isn't.

Anyway, it's clear you don't believe this is a real trans person, expressing a real trans identity. But if it were? What would your answer be then?
You mean they are not identifying as a woman, but as a woman with enormous comedy breasts?

I would say, in the former case, no problem, identify as a woman, but lose the emormous comedy breasts.

Why do some people think that the enormous comedy breasts somehow means that people cannot identify as women?

If a male teacher wore a massive prosthetic dick and said, "I identify not only as a man, but one with an enormous fake dick!" would that somehow mean men cannot identify as men?
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Old 25th September 2022, 08:54 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
It must be a hoot to dress up in kink garb and make the school say they like it. Real power play, that.

Undoubtedly. I think that's a factor whether he's really an autogynaephile, or whether it's a reductio ad absurdum protest.

The law has permitted this. It is now illegal for the school to discriminate against any man who wants to do this, and declare it is his "gender identity". Is this a good thing? We're always being told what a good thing these self-ID laws are, so progressive and kind and accepting and inclusive.
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Old 25th September 2022, 08:58 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
You mean they are not identifying as a woman, but as a woman with enormous comedy breasts?

I would say, in the former case, no problem, identify as a woman, but lose the emormous comedy breasts.

Why do some people think that the enormous comedy breasts somehow means that people cannot identify as women?

If a male teacher wore a massive prosthetic dick and said, "I identify not only as a man, but one with an enormous fake dick!" would that somehow mean men cannot identify as men?

You're not allowed to say "lose the enormous comedy breasts", because that is his chosen gender expression.

It's more as if a woman teacher wore a massive prosthetic dick and said, I am a transman and this is my gender expression. The mind boggles, but again I'm not sure the school could do anything. (Although since, as we see repeatedly, what the men do is always stunning and brave and protected, while somehow the women end up being criticised whatever they do, they'd probably try to find a way.)
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Old 25th September 2022, 08:59 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Well, that's an original take, for sure. Improve public perception of trans people by being obnoxious, so that trans people will be accepted as people who can also be obnoxious? Srsly?

We've seen so many outrageous performances of transwomanhood that even this tends to be accepted as just another autogynaephile who's gone rather further than most of them go. On the other hand there has been a suggestion that the teacher opposes the recent law change that permits and protects the behaviour he is now performing, and is making a point (or even a couple of points) by taking such behaviour to a ridiculous extreme.

In the first case, he's "really" trans. In the second case he isn't. With the law in its present state, how can you tell the difference? You can't. because everyone's gender identity has to be taken at their own word, which is implicitly believed. And it doesn't matter. The law protects that behaviour whether he's for real or piss-taking.

Maybe that's the discussion you want?
No, I said I'd like it if that's what the teach was doing. At least I could get behind that, although still having an issue with the hommes about time and place.


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As noted earlier, reports differ. There are probably kids who are unimpressed. There are also probably kids who are being psychologically damaged by having to treat this man as if he is as much a woman as their own mothers. Is this OK?
Agreed, time and place. I don't think educators of children should be grandstanding on the job for their pet causes. The kids might gain, or be deeply confused and troubled. Not the right audience to be playing around with.
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Old 25th September 2022, 09:02 PM   #65
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I think it's about the most bizarre take imaginable on all this. Still, it's original, I'll give you that.
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Old 25th September 2022, 09:12 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
But consider this. Most times when an adult does something outrageous that isn't specifically prohibited because "you shouldn't need to be told", authority will at the very least take them aside and explain that this is not acceptable behaviour and please go home and change. That has not happened in this case. Instead the school has issued a statement confirming that he is entirely within his rights and they will support him in his "gender identity".

What would have happened if he had been taken aside and asked not to come to work looking like that? I predict lawsuits based on exactly the law the school is quoting in its defence of his behaviour.

This is the reality of Canada in the 21st century, and other countries that have enacted "self-ID" laws. That is exactly the point, whether he's a real AGP or whether he's at it.
Agreed. Methinks the definitions for "gender expression" are in need of a little fine-tuning.

This teacher, for instance, might well have been gender expressing by coming to work in women's garb and makeup and all. But I'd argue that freakishly outsized breasts (compared to the frame that supports them) is not a gender expression, but a kinky sexual self expression, not conceptually different than me showing up to teach children in BDSM gear.
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Old 25th September 2022, 09:13 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
You're not allowed to say "lose the enormous comedy breasts", because that is his chosen gender expression.
This is what I said earlier...

"I think I participated [in that thread] a couple of times with suggestions that maybe we should find some kind of accommodation while recognizing the obvious sex differences between men and women.
I remember that both sides bit my head off for not recognizing the extreme versions of their own and the other side."


Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
It's more as if a woman teacher wore a massive prosthetic dick and said, I am a transman and this is my gender expression. The mind boggles, but again I'm not sure the school could do anything. (Although since, as we see repeatedly, what the men do is always stunning and brave and protected, while somehow the women end up being criticised whatever they do, they'd probably try to find a way.)
I don't see anyone non-ironically calling this stunning and brave, do you?

I think people see it as pretty ridiculous.
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Old 26th September 2022, 12:20 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Agreed. Methinks the definitions for "gender expression" are in need of a little fine-tuning.

This teacher, for instance, might well have been gender expressing by coming to work in women's garb and makeup and all. But I'd argue that freakishly outsized breasts (compared to the frame that supports them) is not a gender expression, but a kinky sexual self expression, not conceptually different than me showing up to teach children in BDSM gear.
Yep, fetish about covers it.
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Old 26th September 2022, 12:23 AM   #69
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It seems this person has their knockers!
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Old 26th September 2022, 01:52 AM   #70
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Taking the idea to its logical conclusion, some chick needs to pretend to be a guy, and of course will need a fake penis. To retain perspective to the boobies it must be three feet long and six inches in diameter.
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Old 26th September 2022, 03:47 AM   #71
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Sack the bastard! He/she is obviously some kind of (a) political activist determined to make a point (probably to discredit transgender-ID persons), (b) an insufferable exhibitionist, or (c) a pervert who gets off on titillation (so to speak). Possibly all three.

Sack him and let him present his case in a law suit.
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Old 26th September 2022, 04:31 AM   #72
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When I was in school, I regularly got in trouble for disrupting the class. How this doesn't qualify as a disruption is beyond me.
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Old 26th September 2022, 04:44 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Elaedith View Post
To provoke disciplinary action and then sue for discrimination? It's a possibility.
That sounds like a plot from an episode of South Park.
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Old 26th September 2022, 05:54 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Sack the bastard! He/she is obviously some kind of (a) political activist determined to make a point (probably to discredit transgender-ID persons), (b) an insufferable exhibitionist, or (c) a pervert who gets off on titillation (so to speak). Possibly all three.

Sack him and let him present his case in a law suit.

Under Canadian law as it is at present? Tricky.
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Old 26th September 2022, 05:56 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Agreed. Methinks the definitions for "gender expression" are in need of a little fine-tuning.

This teacher, for instance, might well have been gender expressing by coming to work in women's garb and makeup and all. But I'd argue that freakishly outsized breasts (compared to the frame that supports them) is not a gender expression, but a kinky sexual self expression, not conceptually different than me showing up to teach children in BDSM gear.

I would argue the same. But under Canadian law as it stands this is not a point that the school is prepared to argue, and I can see where they're coming from.
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Old 26th September 2022, 06:07 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I don't see anyone non-ironically calling this stunning and brave, do you?

I think people see it as pretty ridiculous.

I see the school saying this.

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HDSB recognizes the rights of students, staff, parents/guardians and community members to equitable treatment without discrimination based upon gender identity and gender expression. Gender identity and gender expression are protected grounds under the Ontario Human Rights Code.

If anyone writing that thinks the performance is pretty ridiculous they're keeping it to themselves. That is a statement in support of exploding milk bomb man, recognising his right to come to work like that, as it is protected by the local human rights legislation.

They haven't used the actual words "stunning and brave", but in practice it comes to much the same thing.
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Old 26th September 2022, 06:09 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Someone linked earlier to a Twitter thread that pointed out the practical legal difficulties of this.

You can't discriminate on the grounds of bust size, because some (invariably overweight, which this guy is not) women have busts that size.
Then the problem isn't the size of the bust.

Quote:
You can't say no falsies, because there are women who have had breast cancer surgery who wear prosthetic breasts.
Then the problem isn't the falseness.

Quote:
You can't say bras are compulsory, I don't think.
Then the problem isn't the lack of a bra.

Quote:
You might get somewhere with the visible nipples thing, but women would be pretty freaked if they had to check that no nipple could possibly show, every morning.
Then the problem isn't the nipples.


It is clear from the above that the problem isn't with big nipply false breasts without a bra, the problem is this person having big nipply false breasts without a bra, where another person would be fine to have big nipply false breasts without a bra. If harm is alleged to occur because of big nipply false breasts without a bra then that harm would occur regardless of whose got the big nipply false breasts without a bra. If that harm is permissable from Person A but not Person B, then it's a very clear, very precise, and very obvious case of discrimination.

It's also irrational. Either harm occurs or it doesn't, either that harm is permissible or it isn't. If harm does not occur there is no need for a rule against the behavior. If harm does occur then the rule should cover all instances of it rather than just some.


I think it's far better to be the sort of place where people are free to be silly than to be the sort of place where a mob is permitted to selectively enforce unwritten rules of their own imagining in order to discriminate against certain people for behavior that mob admits is permissable from others, simply because they don't like that sort of person.


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I still think they should make him tie that hair back.
Another subject for which a rule could be written.
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Old 26th September 2022, 06:25 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I think it's far better to be the sort of place where people are free to be silly
Why do you assume he's being silly? I don't think that's a remotely justified assumption.

When people violate social conventions in extreme ways, even arbitrary ones, it can be a warning sign. I don't accept the demand that we ignore warning signs.
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Old 26th September 2022, 06:31 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
I see the school saying this.




If anyone writing that thinks the performance is pretty ridiculous they're keeping it to themselves. That is a statement in support of exploding milk bomb man, recognising his right to come to work like that, as it is protected by the local human rights legislation.

They haven't used the actual words "stunning and brave", but in practice it comes to much the same thing.

No. Your actual claim on this matter - which was characteristically hyperbolic and entirely unsubstantiated - was that when a MAN does this sort of thing it is considered “stunning and brave”, whereas if a WOMAN does it she “invariably gets criticised”.

In reality however, the school’s statement neither stated nor implied any distinction whatsoever in how they would treat male or female staff members. Nor is there a shred of evidence to suggest that they would treat females any differently from males. Once again, that distinction existed entirely in your own jaundiced imagination.
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Old 26th September 2022, 06:41 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Then the problem isn't the size of the bust.

Then the problem isn't the falseness.

Then the problem isn't the lack of a bra.

Then the problem isn't the nipples.

It is clear from the above that the problem isn't with big nipply false breasts without a bra, the problem is this person having big nipply false breasts without a bra, where another person would be fine to have big nipply false breasts without a bra. If harm is alleged to occur because of big nipply false breasts without a bra then that harm would occur regardless of whose got the big nipply false breasts without a bra. If that harm is permissable from Person A but not Person B, then it's a very clear, very precise, and very obvious case of discrimination.

Not sure this really follows. Jane is allowed her seeing-eye dog in the mall, so the problem isn't dogs. Joe is allowed to use his power chair, so the problem isn't powered vehicles. Groups of up to a dozen mall-walkers are welcome, so the problem isn't groups. Therefore the only reason the mall owners are intolerant of Monkey and his Iditarod team mushing through the food court is obvious discrimination.
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