IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Computers and the Internet
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 7th November 2021, 11:30 AM   #1
eerok
Quixoticist
 
eerok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 4,565
I must be dangerously bored

Over the past three days, I upgraded from macOS Big Sur to Monterey, upgraded my phone from an old Moto Z to an iPhone 12 (while changing my carrier), and now I've just upgraded from Windows 10 to Windows 11.

Tomorrow I should just play it safe and stay in bed.
__________________
"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde
eerok is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th November 2021, 02:05 PM   #2
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Gundungurra
Posts: 11,240
You will have to get up and fix all the problems with your Mac, phone and PC.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th November 2021, 02:22 PM   #3
eerok
Quixoticist
 
eerok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 4,565
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
You will have to get up and fix all the problems with your Mac, phone and PC.
In fact it all went very smoothly.

When I upgraded from Catalina to Big Sur, I had a lot of problems, especially with VirtualBox which I stopped using on Macs, but I lost no functionality with Monterey. I'm shocked most of all by somewhat liking Windows 11, but I think it was mostly UI changes for this version anyway, despite all the silly fanfare.

Oh well, I can always find something to break if I get bored again.
__________________
"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde
eerok is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th November 2021, 02:29 PM   #4
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 33,132
Originally Posted by eerok View Post
Tomorrow I should just play it safe and stay in bed.
Just remember that whatever you do in bed, Apple and Microsoft will be watching.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th November 2021, 02:50 PM   #5
Blue Mountain
Resident Skeptical Hobbit
 
Blue Mountain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg
Posts: 6,808
Originally Posted by eerok View Post
In fact it all went very smoothly.

When I upgraded from Catalina to Big Sur, I had a lot of problems, especially with VirtualBox which I stopped using on Macs, but I lost no functionality with Monterey. I'm shocked most of all by somewhat liking Windows 11, but I think it was mostly UI changes for this version anyway, despite all the silly fanfare.

Oh well, I can always find something to break if I get bored again.
Put Linux on your PC. You'll be so busy learning a new desktop and a whole bunch of new software—not to mention configuring everything to match what you were used to on Windows—you'll not be bored for at least a couple of months!
__________________
The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French)
Canadian or living in Canada? PM me if you want an entry on the list of Canadians on the forum.
Blue Mountain is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th November 2021, 03:06 PM   #6
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Gundungurra
Posts: 11,240
Or try back-grading to OS/X. Learn an old GUI instead.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th November 2021, 03:33 PM   #7
eerok
Quixoticist
 
eerok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 4,565
Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
Put Linux on your PC. You'll be so busy learning a new desktop and a whole bunch of new software—not to mention configuring everything to match what you were used to on Windows—you'll not be bored for at least a couple of months!
Oh, you want Linux stories. This month I got bored with Debian Bullseye on my main computer and installed Sid, Arch, EndeavourOS, and Garuda on it. Now I want to reinstall everything on BTRFS.

I consider upgrading macOS and Windows risky because they're such a pain in the ass to install/reinstall. Linux is comparatively easy once you get used to it.
__________________
"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

Last edited by eerok; 7th November 2021 at 04:45 PM. Reason: sp
eerok is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th November 2021, 03:36 PM   #8
eerok
Quixoticist
 
eerok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 4,565
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Or try back-grading to OS/X. Learn an old GUI instead.
The first computer I owned was an Apple][+ with a Z80 card for CP/M and an 80-column card (though no shift key). The only GUI I had was when I stuck gum under my chair. That's going too far back, though
__________________
"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

Last edited by eerok; 7th November 2021 at 03:39 PM.
eerok is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th November 2021, 07:58 PM   #9
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 20,256
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
You will have to get up and fix all the problems with your Mac & phone and PC.
FTFY
__________________
If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list. This will benefit both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste time talking to you... simples!
Those who agree with me may not always be right, but nonetheless, I admire their astuteness.
Cullen Hightower

Last edited by smartcooky; 7th November 2021 at 07:59 PM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th November 2021, 09:52 PM   #10
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Gundungurra
Posts: 11,240
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
FTFY
Then is it his Mac or his iPhone which is running Windows 11?
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th November 2021, 12:40 AM   #11
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 20,256
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Then is it his Mac or his iPhone which is running Windows 11?
I was being sarcastic

I actually hate Apple products, especially iPhones They have given me nothing but trouble. Oh sure they are fine in private use, but iPhones and Macs have been a right-royal pain in the arse to me in a business sense... mainly for the way they do things, and the way they seem to intentionally make what should be really easy things to do bloody impossible. I could give you a couple of examples, but they might be off topic. If the OP is happy to allow me to elaborate, I will.
__________________
If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list. This will benefit both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste time talking to you... simples!
Those who agree with me may not always be right, but nonetheless, I admire their astuteness.
Cullen Hightower
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th November 2021, 05:21 AM   #12
eerok
Quixoticist
 
eerok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 4,565
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I was being sarcastic

I actually hate Apple products, especially iPhones They have given me nothing but trouble. Oh sure they are fine in private use, but iPhones and Macs have been a right-royal pain in the arse to me in a business sense... mainly for the way they do things, and the way they seem to intentionally make what should be really easy things to do bloody impossible. I could give you a couple of examples, but they might be off topic. If the OP is happy to allow me to elaborate, I will.
I'm first and foremost a computer hobbyist, so I like to stick my nose in everything. I fully understand the frustration and pain of Apple's walled garden. Macs don't play well with other OSes, which is truly annoying whenever you bump against it. I like to play around with different things, though, and Apple has good software for creative flakes, a category to which I belong.

I've been mainly a Linux guy since 1995. The biggest surprise of my recent upgrades is that so far I find Windows 11 kind of smooth and nice. I tend to like MS less than I like Apple in many respects, so it was a pleasant surprise. I expected a lot worse.

As for the iPhone, well, I had one before, got annoyed, went to Android, got annoyed, so I tried the iPhone again. I'm not a phone person to begin with, but the iPhone is smooth and attractive compared to Android IMO. I mostly just use it for calls, text, and maps anyway.
__________________
"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde
eerok is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th November 2021, 12:46 PM   #13
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 20,256
Originally Posted by eerok View Post
I'm first and foremost a computer hobbyist, so I like to stick my nose in everything. I fully understand the frustration and pain of Apple's walled garden. Macs don't play well with other OSes, which is truly annoying whenever you bump against it. I like to play around with different things, though, and Apple has good software for creative flakes, a category to which I belong.

I've been mainly a Linux guy since 1995. The biggest surprise of my recent upgrades is that so far I find Windows 11 kind of smooth and nice. I tend to like MS less than I like Apple in many respects, so it was a pleasant surprise. I expected a lot worse.

As for the iPhone, well, I had one before, got annoyed, went to Android, got annoyed, so I tried the iPhone again. I'm not a phone person to begin with, but the iPhone is smooth and attractive compared to Android IMO. I mostly just use it for calls, text, and maps anyway.
Well, here are just a couple of examples of my pain with iPhone...

1. One of the things I often get is people who have been on holiday, and used their smartphones or tablets to take photos of their trip. Often, they will have 100 to 400 or more photos they want printed to put into albums and they want the photos printed in reverse chronological order so that when they open the stack of photos, first photo they took is on the top, and the last is one the bottom. The photos are in chronological order making them very easy to just stick into their album.

The customer will bring their phone to us, and we will download the photos from their phone into a folder for printing.

With a Samsung, Oppo, Huawai, Experia or any other Android phone, this is easy. The photo have a filename that relates directly to the exact date and time a photo is taken, for example...

20210815_120245.jpg ... taken on 2021 August 15 at 12:02:45
20210817_185123.jpg ... taken on 2021 August 17 at 18:51:23

Its a simple matter of printing the photos in that folder in reverse order of filename - the oldest photo is printed first and ends up on the bottom, the newest photo is printed last so it ends up on the top.

However, with an iPhone, for some reason known only to the stupid code monkeys at Apple, the original filenames are stripped, and replaced with a random, 36 character hexadecimal string, for example...

FDF3177B-8A54-4224-B562-C85813BC2E9F.jpg
0AFC5008-2852-42C5-BB8E-B47C3A3037EB.jpg
4D4F72D1-2146-434C-9E63-A9E9FD387280.jpg

There is simply no way to put these photos in chronological order. In their wisdom, the code monkeys have also decided to strip out the EXIF data so that can't be used to work out the order, and the film information is no use either - the "Created Date" field for the files is the date and time they were downloaded to to the system and the "Date Taken" field is set to 01-01-1971 for every single file.

2. We have an internet shortcut that we put on customer phones that allows them to directly access our image upload/download service. They come into the shop (or they can even do it from home) tap the shortcut, and they can immediately start choosing images to send us for printing or whatever they want us to do with them. This shortcut stays fully functional all the time on Samsung, Oppo, Huawai - pretty much any Android phone.... but not on an Apple... every update borks the shortcut or deletes it and we have to recreate it.

Of all the trouble we have working with photos on phones, honestly, 99% of it is is dealing with iPhones.
__________________
If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list. This will benefit both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste time talking to you... simples!
Those who agree with me may not always be right, but nonetheless, I admire their astuteness.
Cullen Hightower
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2021, 12:16 AM   #14
Blue Mountain
Resident Skeptical Hobbit
 
Blue Mountain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg
Posts: 6,808
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
However, with an iPhone, for some reason known only to the stupid code monkeys at Apple, the original filenames are stripped, and replaced with a random, 36 character hexadecimal string, for example...

FDF3177B-8A54-4224-B562-C85813BC2E9F.jpg
0AFC5008-2852-42C5-BB8E-B47C3A3037EB.jpg
4D4F72D1-2146-434C-9E63-A9E9FD387280.jpg

There is simply no way to put these photos in chronological order. In their wisdom, the code monkeys have also decided to strip out the EXIF data so that can't be used to work out the order, and the film information is no use either - the "Created Date" field for the files is the date and time they were downloaded to to the system and the "Date Taken" field is set to 01-01-1971 for every single file.
It's tough to say where the fault is with the highlighted. It could be the device is reporting a bad mtime (modification time), or the transfer program is failing to set the mtime sent by the device after it copies the file. I've discovered a lot of programs do not try to preserve the source file's mtime when doing a transfer, leading to the exact problem you're describing.

If the device shows proper mtimes when listing files, you should look for a program that will preserve them while copying.
__________________
The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French)
Canadian or living in Canada? PM me if you want an entry on the list of Canadians on the forum.
Blue Mountain is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2021, 10:56 PM   #15
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 20,256
Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
It's tough to say where the fault is with the highlighted. It could be the device is reporting a bad mtime (modification time), or the transfer program is failing to set the mtime sent by the device after it copies the file. I've discovered a lot of programs do not try to preserve the source file's mtime when doing a transfer, leading to the exact problem you're describing.

If the device shows proper mtimes when listing files, you should look for a program that will preserve them while copying.
Its not a fault, its the behaviour. An iPhone guy who used to be a tech in an Apple Store tells me that this is deliberate on the part of Apple. They intentionally bork that data (the EXIF and the Date Taken) because "security" or "privacy" (or something). He says there is simply no way to access iPhone image meta data from outside of the phone and keep or save that data when you copy.

1. If you plug the iPhone into a Windows PC via USB, you can navigate into the DCIM folder where all the pictures are and you can see the original filenames and the date/time they were taken, but they are not always named in sequence. Sometimes they use the "IMG_nnnn" naming system (for example IMG_1234.jpg, IMG_3456.jpg etc, and then suddenly, for no reason that is apparent to me, they use a totally different system, a random, eight digit alphanumeric name with four letters followed by four numbers, e.g. ADRF6459.jpg, FRSG8776.jpg etc. You can even see the Date Created data, but the moment you drag those files to a folder on the PC, all the date/time columns (Modified, Access, Taken, etc ) either default to the date/time you dragged them to the folder, or they are blank. While most of the EXIF information is still intact, the bit I need, the date/time the photo was taken has been replaced by the date/time the file was dragged to the desktop.

2. If you try to send them using an application such as email or iMessages, the original file name is replaced with the random 36 character hexadecimal string I mentioned in my previous post - the EXIF information is completely stripped. Same if we use Apple's own image handling software on the phone itself to interface between our download server and the images on the phone.

I find iPhones endlessly frustrating to deal with. More than once I have had to resist the overwhelming urge to place the iPhone on an anvil and smash it as hard as possible with an 8lb sledgehammer.
__________________
If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list. This will benefit both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste time talking to you... simples!
Those who agree with me may not always be right, but nonetheless, I admire their astuteness.
Cullen Hightower
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2021, 12:21 AM   #16
Blue Mountain
Resident Skeptical Hobbit
 
Blue Mountain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg
Posts: 6,808
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I'ts not a fault, its the behaviour. An iPhone guy who used to be a tech in an Apple Store tells me that this is deliberate on the part of Apple. They intentionally bork that data (the EXIF and the Date Taken) because "security" or "privacy" (or something). He says there is simply no way to access iPhone image meta data from outside of the phone and keep or save that data when you copy.

(remainder snipped)
In fact, Apple's correct in suggesting the EXIF information is sensitive. Well, the location data, if present, is sensitive because it can show where someone is at the time the picture was taken. And I can see where some people may not want others to know when a particular picture was taken.

There's always a trade-off between security (in this case, privacy) and convenience. Unfortunately in this case, you're on the wrong end of the tradeoff.

On the other hand, as far as I know social media sites these days routinely strip or sanitise EXIF information on uploaded photos. At least I hope they do.

And yet, Apple lets you unlock your phone by looking at it. Which means an adversary can do the same simply by holding your phone to your face. Biometrics should be used only for authentication, never for authorization.
__________________
The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French)
Canadian or living in Canada? PM me if you want an entry on the list of Canadians on the forum.
Blue Mountain is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Computers and the Internet

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:50 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.