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Tags donald trump , mental illness issues , psychiatry incidents , psychiatry issues , Trump controversies

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Old 3rd August 2018, 10:23 AM   #521
xjx388
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
First, please clarify: I asked if you agree that Trump's behavior is "both abnormal and dangerous." Your response appears to be that you agree that it's abnormal. Does that imply that you don't agree that it's dangerous?
Dangerous in what sense? I think setting a precedent that the US will separate families at the border is dangerous and immoral. I think cozying up to Putin is dangerous and stupid. In short, I think many of the ways he is implementing his policy ideas are very dangerous directions for our country to take. I thought many of Obama's ideas were dangerous directions for our country to take. My problems with them both are political in nature; I don't need to know anything about their mental health in order to arrive at my conclusions.

But dangerous in the sense that Trump's insane enough to launch nukes on a whim? No. I didn't think that Obama was insane enough to institute Sharia law either. The Yale group is using their status as professionals to make this latter kind of argument, which is clearly unprofessional and unethical.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 10:35 AM   #522
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
The question of whether or not Trump is dangerous bears directly on the professional ethics issue that xjx is arguing.
"Politically dangerous" is not something that psychiatrists should put on their white coats to pontificate on. They can do so as citizens.

I would have no problem if they talked about the mental health issues that arise when children are forcibly separated from their parents, for example, and that doing so is therefore a bad policy. That is a clear area where their expertise can be used to inform the public about the likely results of a policy that is actually being enacted.

Fantastical scenarios where the president might bring about a nuclear holocaust? Not so much.
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It also bears on the professional ethics of Republican congressmen who enable and protect him because, like you, they care more about getting far-right judges and tax cuts than they do about the damage Trump is doing -- and will continue to do! -- as a direct result of his malignant personality disorder.
Or as a result of his incompetence in formulating and implementing his policy ideas. Labeling him with a "malignant personality disorder" gets you absolutely nowhere; it's enough to observe that he is politically incompetent. You can argue all you like about Republicans tolerating his incompetence to achieve their political goals; but, again, that's a political argument not a mental health argument.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 10:41 AM   #523
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
The question of whether or not Trump is dangerous bears directly on the professional ethics issue that xjx is arguing. It also bears on the professional ethics of Republican congressmen who enable and protect him because, like you, they care more about getting far-right judges and tax cuts than they do about the damage Trump is doing -- and will continue to do! -- as a direct result of his malignant personality disorder.
I thought "far right judges and tax cuts" is "the damage Trump is doing".
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Old 3rd August 2018, 10:43 AM   #524
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Prediction: There won't be any psychological tests performed on Trump. Also, he will be reelected for another term, and this thread will probably continue going until we're near the end of his second term, which by then it will be pointless to continue arguing whether or not it can be proven that Trump's bonkers, because he'll be on his way out of office anyway.

"Dead on balls accurate." -- Lisa Vito (My Cousin Vinny)
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Old 3rd August 2018, 10:53 AM   #525
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Prediction: There won't be any psychological tests performed on Trump. Also, he will be reelected for another term, and this thread will probably continue going until we're near the end of his second term, which by then it will be pointless to continue arguing whether or not it can be proven that Trump's bonkers, because he'll be on his way out of office anyway.
I don't think we will have a democracy left if this is true.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 10:55 AM   #526
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
"Dead on balls accurate." -- Lisa Vito (My Cousin Vinny)
Bring anything to the table other then "Cool and Hip" pop culture quotes?
This is the Hipster Trump Worshipper.he sees Trump as some sort of edgy anti establishment warrior who will bring down the Establishment.They don't care about the damage he does in the process. To use a "Cool and Hip" quote mysef. they just want to see the forest burn.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 11:10 AM   #527
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
"Dead on balls accurate." -- Lisa Vito (My Cousin Vinny)
Actually it's not. Like Amanda Knox, this thread could outlive the Trump presidency. Folks have already bought their team jerseys; why put them in mothballs just because there is a new president?
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Old 3rd August 2018, 11:15 AM   #528
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I thought "far right judges and tax cuts" is "the damage Trump is doing".
That appears to be because, for some unexplained reason, you want to pretend that it's all just politics as usual.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 11:20 AM   #529
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Oh. What's the threshold for lies per day before it reaches psychiatric problem, somewhere in the 5's?
You keep trying to cherry pick.

Step back, look at the whole picture and quit trying to debunk an assessment with single picked cherries.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 11:22 AM   #530
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
I am still sitting here wondering what politician, especially presidential level, doesn't have NPD on some level. Then I wonder, why is NPD disqualifying?
I suggest you review the things that make NPD pathological. If after that you still can't tell the difference between 'within normal limits' and 'pathological', then perhaps you should leave it to the people who can.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 11:24 AM   #531
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That's the problem.
Trump is doing severe damage to Democracy in AMerica. If it was just a case of bad policies, I would not be so scared. A couple of elections can change bad politices.
But Trump is briging demogogury to a new level...at least for the US.
But many..not all..conservatives have become so obsessed with carrying out a few policies that they are willing to throw Democracy and Freedom in America on the junk heap to get them. Or they are simply in denial about Trump. They don't see because they don't want to see.
That line about gaining the world but losing your soul comes to mind.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 11:25 AM   #532
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
"Politically dangerous" is not something that psychiatrists should put on their white coats to pontificate on. They can do so as citizens.

I would have no problem if they talked about the mental health issues that arise when children are forcibly separated from their parents, for example, and that doing so is therefore a bad policy. That is a clear area where their expertise can be used to inform the public about the likely results of a policy that is actually being enacted.

Fantastical scenarios where the president might bring about a nuclear holocaust? Not so much.

Or as a result of his incompetence in formulating and implementing his policy ideas. Labeling him with a "malignant personality disorder" gets you absolutely nowhere; it's enough to observe that he is politically incompetent. You can argue all you like about Republicans tolerating his incompetence to achieve their political goals; but, again, that's a political argument not a mental health argument.
You might feel differently if he was pointing at you at one of his rallies, calling you a "horrible" person who writes "fake news" about Trump, an "enemy of the people" who cannot be believed. That is not "incompetence"; that is his malignant personality disorder, and even if it doesn't result in violence, it is doing immense unquantifiable damage to our democracy.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 11:30 AM   #533
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Is every politician that scapegoats an out group suffering from a personality disorder, or is there a threshold for that too?
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Old 3rd August 2018, 11:31 AM   #534
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Here is where the issue is: I have acknowledged that Trumpís behavior is not normal. I do not approve. He never should have been President. Heís a bad hombre. There is no thread in which I have defended Trumpís behavior, including this one.

I am solely concerned, in this thread, with the unprofessional and unethical conduct of the Yale group. What they are doing is wrong on a professional level. What Iím defending is the integrity of the medical profession. I donít want to normalize unprofessional conduct.

Can you acknowledge that?...
No, that is not what you've been solely concerned with in this thread. You have repeatedly said they can't make a diagnosis without an in-person exam because you believe that is what the APA position statement says. (You are not even interpreting the position correctly.)
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 11:34 AM   #535
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I do apply that. I will not however, get onboard with the unprofessional conduct of clinicians who have never so much as been in the same room with a person making public statements about their mental health.

Two wrongs donít make a right.
Umm, no. We've said you don't know enough to tell those who have made said diagnosis that they are wrong.

Who asked you to "get onboard with" said professional diagnosis?
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 11:35 AM   #536
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
We don't know if Trump suffers from NPD. He might be, but there would have to be a medical investigation to know for sure.
Yes, we do, some of us do anyway.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 11:38 AM   #537
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Is every politician that scapegoats an out group suffering from a personality disorder, or is there a threshold for that too?
More cherry picking. It's not getting you anywhere in this discussion.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 11:40 AM   #538
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As for dangerous, don't forget to include Trump riling up people in his rallies. That is dangerous.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 11:53 AM   #539
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Is every politician that scapegoats an out group suffering from a personality disorder, or is there a threshold for that too?

Better question: If Donald Trump isn't over the threshold for narcissistic personality disorder, then what's the point of having a threshold? It's really hard to imagine anyone exceeding it.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 11:56 AM   #540
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Dangerous in what sense? I think setting a precedent that the US will separate families at the border is dangerous and immoral. I think cozying up to Putin is dangerous and stupid. In short, I think many of the ways he is implementing his policy ideas are very dangerous directions for our country to take. I thought many of Obama's ideas were dangerous directions for our country to take. My problems with them both are political in nature; I don't need to know anything about their mental health in order to arrive at my conclusions.
Political differences are fine - however you seem to have decided on fairly arbitrary rules that effectively mean that nobody can ever question the mental health of a politician.

Is there any behaviour that Trump could hypothetically demonstrate that would lead you to question his behaviour?

As far as I can see - if a politician stripped naked in public, painted himself orange, and proclaimed himself the chief oompa-loompa and God-Emperor of Narnia, that wouldn't be sufficient evidence for you


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But dangerous in the sense that Trump's insane enough to launch nukes on a whim? No. I didn't think that Obama was insane enough to institute Sharia law either. The Yale group is using their status as professionals to make this latter kind of argument, which is clearly unprofessional and unethical.
The highlighted part - there was and is absolutely no reason to question Obama's mental health.

There is plenty of evidence that at the very least, Trump's behaviour is very odd and abnormal, and that it often harms his interests - for example when he makes enemies of former allies over imagined slights. There is a parsimonious explanation, which is that he does indeed suffer from NPD. If he does, then your assessment as to the risk he poses - which seems to be based on him being normal, and certainly is not based on any psychological insight, is founded on a false premise.

Several people who have lived with people with NPD (Smartcooky, for example) have no doubts about Trump's diagnosis.

You might need to be a doctor to identify a particular type of disease, but you don't need to be a doctor to see that someone with recently severed arm is going to need medical attention.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 12:03 PM   #541
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
In both those scenarios, they are mere opinions on the candidate's policy.
They are certainly not presented that way. I don't remember ever seeing a political commercial with a teacher making a recommendation based on what's "best for the children" but then saying that she was just offering her opinion.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 12:05 PM   #542
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
No. Everyone lies. But when a president publicly lies on an average of 7.6 times a day, that is evidence of a real psychiatric problem.
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Oh. What's the threshold for lies per day before it reaches psychiatric problem, somewhere in the 5's?
Do you think it's 'normal' for a president to publicly lie on average 7.6 times a day for a year and a half? How is that, in any way, shape, or form not indicative of a pathological liar?

"Pathological liars demonstrate frequent and repeated lying for which no apparent psychological motive or external benefit can be discerned."

I'd say an average of 7.5 times a day for a year and a half is 'frequent'. Or would you like to claim otherwise? Trump lies about things as silly as his inauguration size, being more popular than Lincoln, I.D.'s being required for buying groceries, his I.Q. being "one of the highest", and that he never mocked a disabled reporter. He lied about seeing thousands of Muslims celebrating in N. Jersey on 9/11, about dresses being sold out in DC for the election, that all the women on The Apprentice flirted with him. But his most famous lie was that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii. He lies so frequently and so outrageously that his lying has become the norm for him and many of his supporters not only ignore it, but they defend it.

Take off the blinders. Trump lies far, far beyond what is normal for anyone and he lies to the American people in his capacity as POTUS. Unlike some, I do not find that acceptable.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 12:10 PM   #543
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Do you think it's 'normal' for a president to publicly lie on average 7.6 times a day for a year and a half? How is that, in any way, shape, or form not indicative of a pathological liar?

"Pathological liars demonstrate frequent and repeated lying for which no apparent psychological motive or external benefit can be discerned."

I'd say an average of 7.5 times a day for a year and a half is 'frequent'. Or would you like to claim otherwise? Trump lies about things as silly as his inauguration size, being more popular than Lincoln, I.D.'s being required for buying groceries, his I.Q. being "one of the highest", and that he never mocked a disabled reporter. He lied about seeing thousands of Muslims celebrating in N. Jersey on 9/11, about dresses being sold out in DC for the election, that all the women on The Apprentice flirted with him. But his most famous lie was that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii. He lies so frequently and so outrageously that his lying has become the norm for him and many of his supporters not only ignore it, but they defend it.

Take off the blinders. Trump lies far, far beyond what is normal for anyone and he lies to the American people in his capacity as POTUS. Unlike some, I do not find that acceptable.

It's not just the frequency, but the fact that he lies when it is both unimportant (except to his ego) and obviously untrue (for example the size of his inauguration crowd.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 12:42 PM   #544
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Dangerous in what sense? I think setting a precedent that the US will separate families at the border is dangerous and immoral. I think cozying up to Putin is dangerous and stupid. In short, I think many of the ways he is implementing his policy ideas are very dangerous directions for our country to take. I thought many of Obama's ideas were dangerous directions for our country to take. My problems with them both are political in nature; I don't need to know anything about their mental health in order to arrive at my conclusions.

But dangerous in the sense that Trump's insane enough to launch nukes on a whim? No. I didn't think that Obama was insane enough to institute Sharia law either. The Yale group is using their status as professionals to make this latter kind of argument, which is clearly unprofessional and unethical.

Trump is dangerous because, in dealing with any situation, whether mundane or crisis, he will predictably put his bloated but fragile ego at the top of the priority list; empathy for affected people will not be on the list at all; lying about what he's doing will be S.O.P.; and he may well act against the best interests of the country if he, in his apparent delusional and paranoid alternate reality, sees those as conflicting with his own. Your opinion that such behavior will surely stop short of launching nukes is not reassuring.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 12:52 PM   #545
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Better question: If Donald Trump isn't over the threshold for narcissistic personality disorder, then what's the point of having a threshold? It's really hard to imagine anyone exceeding it.
Related question - If there is nothing to worry about with Trump, what behaviour would a politician have to demonstrate before their mental health was called into question?

Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Trump is dangerous because, in dealing with any situation, whether mundane or crisis, he will predictably put his bloated but fragile ego at the top of the priority list; empathy for affected people will not be on the list at all; lying about what he's doing will be S.O.P.; and he may well act against the best interests of the country if he, in his apparent delusional and paranoid alternate reality, sees those as conflicting with his own. Your opinion that such behavior will surely stop short of launching nukes is not reassuring.
Especially when we have examples like David Koresh and Jim Jones to demonstrate what happens with narcissistic cult leaders when the pressure of reality gets to them.
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link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 3rd August 2018, 01:12 PM   #546
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
... Especially when we have examples like David Koresh and Jim Jones to demonstrate what happens with narcissistic cult leaders when the pressure of reality gets to them.
I think you are on the mark here. The way Trump riled up the last couple of rally crowds certainly has potential to go very very wrong.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 03:14 PM   #547
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
"Politically dangerous" is not something that psychiatrists should put on their white coats to pontificate on. They can do so as citizens.
Could you link to the specific post or name the person whom you are quoting?



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I would have no problem if they talked about the mental health issues that arise when children are forcibly separated from their parents, for example, and that doing so is therefore a bad policy. That is a clear area where their expertise can be used to inform the public about the likely results of a policy that is actually being enacted.
That's exactly what they're doing. It seems like you don't like it now because it's a RINO and party politics seems like the only thing you care about in life.



Quote:
Fantastical scenarios where the president might bring about a nuclear holocaust? Not so much.
Okay, forget the nuclear scare if it's such an unrealistic fear — though I could easily see how anyone could dismiss a kind of "OMG he could cause armageddon at any moment!" with any other person in the world EXCEPT for the ONLY person in the world who has full control over with no real checks on the use of such a massive military and stock of nuclear weapons the world has ever seen — but let's put that aside for the moment and say that, even with that off the table, there is way, way, way more evidence to demonstrate that he could easily be a danger to himself or others.

In fact, I would bet that if it were anyone else on the streets of America, all it would take is a phone call to the cops who would bring two social workers out and have enough to pull them in on an involuntary 72 hour psychiatric hold just for that "in person" interview you so desperately think is necessary. Of course, in an involuntary situation, the laws that protect the person are in place due to 4th amendment issues, but anyway.


Quote:
Or as a result of his incompetence in formulating and implementing his policy ideas. Labeling him with a "malignant personality disorder" gets you absolutely nowhere; it's enough to observe that he is politically incompetent. You can argue all you like about Republicans tolerating his incompetence to achieve their political goals; but, again, that's a political argument not a mental health argument.
It's only political because he's in the highest political office in the world. Before that, he didn't have the ability to cause global strife and possible financial and other ruination.

And these warnings were given when he first started his run in 2015 so it's not like it's simply a case of sour grapes because "my guy didn't win oh boo hoo" as you and theprestige love to paint it as.

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Old 3rd August 2018, 03:41 PM   #548
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Could you link to the specific post or name the person whom you are quoting?
I'm not quoting anyone.
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That's exactly what they're doing.
The Yale group is not doing that. If there are other shrinks commenting on those issues, you won't hear me trying to stop them.
Quote:
It seems like you don't like it now because it's a RINO and party politics seems like the only thing you care about in life.
If you say so . . .

Quote:
Okay, forget the nuclear scare if it's such an unrealistic fear ó though I could easily see how anyone could dismiss a kind of "OMG he could cause armageddon at any moment!" with any other person in the world EXCEPT for the ONLY person in the world who has full control over with no real checks on the use of such a massive military and stock of nuclear weapons the world has ever seen ó but let's put that aside for the moment and say that, even with that off the table, there is way, way, way more evidence to demonstrate that he could easily be a danger to himself or others.

In fact, I would bet that if it were anyone else on the streets of America, all it would take is a phone call to the cops who would bring two social workers out and have enough to pull them in on an involuntary 72 hour psychiatric hold just for that "in person" interview you so desperately think is necessary. Of course, in an involuntary situation, the laws that protect the person are in place due to 4th amendment issues, but anyway.
Trump has been on the streets of NYC all his life and hasn't been picked up yet, so it seems your assessment here is a bit off.
Quote:
It's only political because he's in the highest political office in the world. Before that, he didn't have the ability to cause global strife and possible financial and other ruination.
All presidents have this ability. Every recent US President has been an agent of death, destruction and ruination in various places throughout the world. Beyond that, what special kinds of strife and ruination are you pleading for Trump, specifically?

Quote:
And these warnings were given when he first started his run in 2015 so it's not like it's simply a case of sour grapes because "my guy didn't win oh boo hoo" as you and theprestige love to paint it as.
There was no Yale conference in 2015. Duty to Warn did not exist in 2015. Can you point to any such warnings like the ones that are the subject of this thread?
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Old 3rd August 2018, 03:43 PM   #549
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I've never seen anyone toot his own horn as much as Trump. He tells us he's a "stable genius", has one of the "highest IQ's", one of the "greatest memories of all time" and is "more popular than Lincoln". No evidence of any of these has ever been produced but we have Trump's word for it all. His favorite words for anything related to him are "great, fantastic, fabulous, wonderful, best, and huge".

Watching him at a rally purportedly for someone else may as well be a "look at how wonderful I am" rally and he spends most of the time telling us how great he is and insulting anyone who doesn't agree with him. He just called Maxine Waters a person with "a very low IQ" (he's claimed in the 60's which would make her mentally challenged) and, unsurprisingly, attacked the media yet again,

But some on here question whether he has NPD? Just another example of eyes wide shut.

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Old 3rd August 2018, 03:45 PM   #550
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I've never seen anyone toot his own horn as much as Trump. He tells us he's a "stable genius", has one of the "highest IQ's", one of the "greatest memories of all time" and is "more popular than Lincoln". No evidence of any of these has ever been produced but we have Trump's word for it all. His favorite words for anything related to him are "great, fantastic, fabulous, wonderful, best, and huge".

Watching him at a rally purportedly for someone else may as well be a "look at how wonderful I am" rally and he spends most of the time telling us how great he is and insulting anyone who doesn't agree with him. He just called Maxine Waters a person with "a very low IQ" (he's claimed in the 60's which would make her mentally challenged) and, unsurprisingly, attacked the media agai

But some on here question whether he has NPD? Just another example of eyes wide shut.
Smartcooky has seen someone do that - but then they had NPD
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Old 3rd August 2018, 03:47 PM   #551
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I've never seen anyone toot his own horn as much as Trump. He tells us he's a "stable genius", has one of the "highest IQ's", one of the "greatest memories of all time" and is "more popular than Lincoln". No evidence of any of these has ever been produced but we have Trump's word for it all. His favorite words for anything related to him are "great, fantastic, fabulous, wonderful, best, and huge".

Watching him at a rally purportedly for someone else may as well be a "look at how wonderful I am" rally and he spends most of the time telling us how great he is and insulting anyone who doesn't agree with him. He just called Maxine Waters a person with "a very low IQ" (he's claimed in the 60's which would make her mentally challenged) and, unsurprisingly, attacked the media agai

But some on here question whether he has NPD? Just another example of eyes wide shut.
Do you agree with the Yale group, that the Cabinet should remove the president based on this diagnosis?
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Old 3rd August 2018, 03:49 PM   #552
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
But some on here question whether he has NPD? Just another example of eyes wide shut.
Fundamental misunderstanding. No one here is in a position to ponder mental health diagnoses for someone they don't know. That isn't the issue. The issue is the appropriateness and relevance of the Yale group's assessment.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 04:09 PM   #553
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Do you agree with the Yale group, that the Cabinet should remove the president based on this diagnosis?
No. Not on the professional opinion of the Yale group alone. I think that's pretty obvious. It's highly unlikely the Yale group thought the Cabinet would do so. They were trying to bring attention to what they saw in Trump. Before any action could actually occur along that line, Trump would need to be examined and diagnosed in person by psychiatrists. That's not going to happen. I disagree that Trump cannot be unofficially diagnosed with NPD when there is a plethora of evidence going back decades, including interviews and videos, that psychiatrists can reference.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 04:43 PM   #554
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Fundamental misunderstanding. No one here is in a position to ponder mental health diagnoses for someone they don't know. That isn't the issue. The issue is the appropriateness and relevance of the Yale group's assessment.
See, there you go again! If it's not the issue why do you keep repeating it?

Not only do you not know enough about the skills of other people in the forum, you also don't know enough about NPD to tell those who have made said diagnosis that they are wrong.

As for addressing the issues, we have, over and over, but you go around and around going nowhere. Here you assert your same POV that everyone is wrong because they've not done an in-person evaluation. We have addressed that.

You cannot say what additional information would be discovered in said in-person evaluation that could possibly matter; and, it has been noted by professionals in the field, chances are high you'd only get distorted information about Trump in-person and his behavior in public is much more reliable given how much of it and how varied it is.

Oh, and calling people unprofessional and unethical is mudslinging.
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Old 4th August 2018, 03:05 AM   #555
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Am I justified in saying that this politician probably has a mental illness?

Former state GOP leader kills mother’s dog, claims he’s ‘the second coming of Christ,’ police say

I suppose that if I had any relevant qualifications, it would be unethical for me to make that assertion.
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Old 4th August 2018, 08:09 AM   #556
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Dangerous in what sense? I think setting a precedent that the US will separate families at the border is dangerous and immoral. I think cozying up to Putin is dangerous and stupid. In short, I think many of the ways he is implementing his policy ideas are very dangerous directions for our country to take. I thought many of Obama's ideas were dangerous directions for our country to take. My problems with them both are political in nature; I don't need to know anything about their mental health in order to arrive at my conclusions.

But dangerous in the sense that Trump's insane enough to launch nukes on a whim? No. I didn't think that Obama was insane enough to institute Sharia law either. The Yale group is using their status as professionals to make this latter kind of argument, which is clearly unprofessional and unethical.
In the sense that a mentally unstable person is Commander in Chief of the largest military in the world?

Really now.
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Old 4th August 2018, 10:03 AM   #557
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
In the sense that a mentally unstable person is Commander in Chief of the largest military in the world?



Really now.


Ok, but hereís the meat of the issue: Did your concern only come about because mental health professionals said so or had you already formed this opinion of Trump before they spoke out? Iím going to bet you already felt Trump was mentally unstable and dangerous based on your own observations.


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Old 4th August 2018, 11:06 AM   #558
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Ok, but hereís the meat of the issue: Did your concern only come about because mental health professionals said so or had you already formed this opinion of Trump before they spoke out? Iím going to bet you already felt Trump was mentally unstable and dangerous based on your own observations.
I doubt that the Yale group's intent was to simply reinforce the beliefs of those who were already convinced that Trump was mentally unfit for the job, so I disagree that Fudpucker's concurrence is the "meat of the issue."
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Old 4th August 2018, 11:30 AM   #559
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Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
I doubt that the Yale group's intent was to simply reinforce the beliefs of those who were already convinced that Trump was mentally unfit for the job, so I disagree that Fudpucker's concurrence is the "meat of the issue."

The Yale groupís and the Duty to Warn organizationís intent was clear: make a public case to get Trump out of office. So, the meat of the issue is that nobody suddenly went, ďThese shrinks say Trump is dangerously mentally ill? Well that completely changes the way I feel about him! Letís remove him!Ē People like Fudbucker and my myself (and most people in this thread, I gather) didnít want him elected in the first place because we already thought he wasnít fit for the office. If thatís true for the general population-and given the many discussions here in US Politics and elsewhere, itís undeniably true- then the groups in question didnít need to breach ethics and professionalism by publicly commenting on the mental health status of a stranger. We already knew through our own observations that he was unfit.

The people who did vote for Trump either still support him or regret their vote. None of those people were swayed by the Yale group/Duty to Warn either.

Ethics and standards exist for a reason and there should be a very good reason to breach them. What was the very good reason in this case?


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Old 4th August 2018, 11:35 AM   #560
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
The Yale groupís and the Duty to Warn organizationís intent was clear: make a public case to get Trump out of office. So, the meat of the issue is that nobody suddenly went, ďThese shrinks say Trump is dangerously mentally ill? Well that completely changes the way I feel about him! Letís remove him!Ē People like Fudbucker and my myself (and most people in this thread, I gather) didnít want him elected in the first place because we already thought he wasnít fit for the office. If thatís true for the general population-and given the many discussions here in US Politics and elsewhere, itís undeniably true- then the groups in question didnít need to breach ethics and professionalism by publicly commenting on the mental health status of a stranger. We already knew through our own observations that he was unfit.

The people who did vote for Trump either still support him or regret their vote. None of those people were swayed by the Yale group/Duty to Warn either.

Ethics and standards exist for a reason and there should be a very good reason to breach them. What was the very good reason in this case?


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Perhaps because they are mental health professionals and concerned enough about Trump's mental state to take that step?
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