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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 2nd July 2019, 12:55 PM   #561
whoanellie
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The police did everything by the book.

If you prefer to believe a convicted liar, that is your prerogative.
There's a book that says you shouldn't test a semen stain when you find a women stabbed to death in her bedroom?
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Old 2nd July 2019, 12:57 PM   #562
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There is really something wrong with people who judge Amanda's actions like the kiss in the courtyard and the cartwheel (or was it the splits?) as something nefarious. The whole experience must have been surreal. At 20 years old, healthy humans are filled with energy. To interpret that energy as guilt, particularly when you weren't there is dishonest. We don't know Amanda and what she is like.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 01:32 PM   #563
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
There is really something wrong with people who judge Amanda's actions like the kiss in the courtyard and the cartwheel (or was it the splits?) as something nefarious. The whole experience must have been surreal. At 20 years old, healthy humans are filled with energy. To interpret that energy as guilt, particularly when you weren't there is dishonest. We don't know Amanda and what she is like.

Yes. And what's even more astonishing (and damning) is that the two most senior law enforcement officials involved in this "investigation" also seem to have attached evidentary weight to these sorts of things. For Giobbi to crow on camera that he "knew" Knox was guilty when she swivelled her hips a little, and for Mignini similarly to make ludicrous overinterpretations of other aspects of Knox's behaviour on 2-4 November, should make most Perugians very concerned, and should make the Italian state police and prosecutors' office feel very ashamed.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 01:57 PM   #564
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I feel as though I have landed in the middle of a group of eleven-year old Justin Bieber groupies.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 02:13 PM   #565
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I feel as though I have landed in the middle of a group of eleven-year old Justin Bieber groupies.
And I feel as though Amanda Knox was acquitted due to a lack of evidence implicating her in the crime, and an international court ruled her rights were violated during the interrogation. Because that's what actually happened.

To each their own!
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Old 2nd July 2019, 02:30 PM   #566
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I feel as though I have landed in the middle of a group of eleven-year old Justin Bieber groupies.

Yeah - this makes almost no sense at all. Nothing new there, of course.

Perhaps you meant to say you feel as though you've landed in the middle of a group of rational, objective critical thinkers who are/were capable of seeing this whole case for what it truly is/was, and who have shot to pieces every single one of your evidence-free, vengeful-bias-heavy attempts at argument and laughably inept attempts at "explaining" everything from law to science (and everything else for that matter). Now THAT makes a lot more sense........
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Old 2nd July 2019, 02:31 PM   #567
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I feel as though I have landed in the middle of a group of eleven-year old Justin Bieber groupies.
You wouldn't feel that way if you ever read the full text of the exonerating documents from the definitive Supreme Court acquittal of 2015, as well as the final documents generated by the ECHR, describing how Italy had denied rights to a suspect at interrogation.

Unless..... you did read those and thought of Justin Bieber anyway!
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Old 2nd July 2019, 03:03 PM   #568
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
His saying Knox wasn't there is equivalent to Knox omitting to mention Guede was there. Honour amongst thieves and all that. "Thou shalt not grass".
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Wait a minute. I thought Amanda was setting up Guede to take the fall when she pointed out his crap in the toilet and his bloody footprint on the bathmat to the police? Add to that her leaving his visible bloody shoe prints in the hallway and his bloody palm print under Meredith's body. Oh, and don't forget the 'staged' break in that perfectly mimicked his break in of the lawyers' office.

"Thou shalt be consistent when pulling crap out of one's nether regions."
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Der. Pointing at Guede without landing herself in it.
M-B made it clear the pair are highly suspicious and Knox was definitely at the murder scene as of the time of the murder, she named Patrick to deflect away from her knowing it was Guede.

Quote:
Why would your sweet little pure angel want to protect this 'local burglar from Africa'? Think about it.
(Vixen, Cont. 28, post #1244)

Will you please pick a story and stick with it? Was she protecting Guede or was she setting him up from the beginning? Stop bouncing back and forth like a damn ping pong ball whenever it suits you.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 03:46 PM   #569
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Yes. And what's even more astonishing (and damning) is that the two most senior law enforcement officials involved in this "investigation" also seem to have attached evidentary weight to these sorts of things. For Giobbi to crow on camera that he "knew" Knox was guilty when she swivelled her hips a little, and for Mignini similarly to make ludicrous overinterpretations of other aspects of Knox's behaviour on 2-4 November, should make most Perugians very concerned, and should make the Italian state police and prosecutors' office feel very ashamed.
Unfortunately, cops are horrible about that sort of thing. They have a tendency to distrust and be suspicious of anyone that doesn't fit their own idea of an innocent person. I have a lot of friends that are police officers. They start off wide eyed even, even idealistic maybe, but not long into the job, they tend to evolve into arrogance.
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Last edited by acbytesla; 2nd July 2019 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 04:00 PM   #570
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I feel as though I have landed in the middle of a group of eleven-year old Justin Bieber groupies.
You don't get it Vixen. Not everyone is alike. And thinking you know what is going on in someone else's mind is an absurd game to play when lives are on the line. You may be very good at reading people. I like to think I am. But I know I can't be sure. A murder case is a horrible place for mind reading.

Do you really want to imprison people base on this amount of evidence?

Seriously? Would you really like to see Amanda in prison for 30 plus years if she didn't do it?
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Old 2nd July 2019, 04:18 PM   #571
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I can't help wondering if liver temperature is a more modern way (it's mentioned in a Yrsa crime novel I'm reading) but then, in 2007, rectal temperature was standard. In DD it is mentioned that Mignini was loath to move the body until the forensics had been gathered. Stefanoni and her team were already there so it made sense for them to continue.

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/es...-of-death.html
Estimating TOD by taking the liver temperature is nothing new.

Quote:
In 20 cases with known times of death continuous post-mortem measurements of the temperature fall in brain, calf, liver, axilla and rectum of the bodies have been made, and, in addition, the environmental temperature has been recorded.
Determination of the Time of Death by Continuous Post-Mortem Temperature Measurements
Jørn Simonsen, MD, Jorgen Voigt, MD, Niels Jeppesen, MD First Published April 1, 1977


Quote:
Algor mortis rates are measured with a thermometer or through the use of a multiple-probe thermometer that measures the cooling rate of the brain, liver, and rectum.
World of Forensic Science
COPYRIGHT 2005 Thomson Gale

I notice you have not mentioned the fact that Mignini lied when he said Lalli requested not to take the body temperature. Per usual, you just fail to address it.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 04:26 PM   #572
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You didn't know Knox' blood in the bathroom dominated Meredith's in places?
Hmmmm...resorting to the "mixed blood" bit again, are ya? Maybe I just missed where Stefanoni or a judge ever referred to "Kercher's and Knox's mixed blood". Could you be a dear and quote it for me?
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Old 2nd July 2019, 04:32 PM   #573
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I am glad you are not pestering me to say Roberta Glass is wrong.
Why would I do that? That's like expecting Trump to say that MBS was behind Khashoggi's murder or that Putin interfered in the 2016 election or that his inauguration crowd was smaller than Obama's....

But what I will pester you to say is that Krissy G was wrong when she claimed Guede described the "attacker's" knife as a stiletto. Not that I really expect you to admit it because, being an atheist, I don't believe in miracles.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 04:45 PM   #574
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I feel as though I have landed in the middle of a group of eleven-year old Justin Bieber groupies.
I feel like I've landed in an alternate reality called TJMKland where science and logic are replaced with confirmation bias and narcissistic egos.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 04:51 PM   #575
Numbers
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Very witty.

All except you lay out what you believe are legitimate reasons for Mignini to have suspected someone of a crime, you ignore that 3 1/2 days later Ficara brings this person into an **interrogation room**, and suddenly you deny they are a suspect.

It's got nothing to do with colloquialisms. It's got everything to do with how the cops **behave** based on that belief.
The terms "suspect" or "person charged with a criminal offense" in the Knox - Sollecito case are only meaningful based on the definition under international law - that is, the ECHR definition. National formalistic usages of these terms are not consider the only reliable indicator that a person was a suspect or was charged with a criminal offense for the purposes of the European Convention on Human Rights, which for Italy and other CoE member states, is the ultimate human rights law.

Here are the ECHR's statement about those terms, excerpted from its Guidance on Article 6 - Right to a Fair Trial (criminal limb), leaving out the inline case citations:

"9. The conceptof a “criminal charge” has an “autonomous” meaning, independent of the categorisations employed by the national legal systems of the member States .... This is true both for the determination of the“criminal” nature of the charge and for the moment from which such a “charge” exists.

10. In using the terms “criminal charge” and “charged with a criminal offence”, the three paragraphs of Article 6 refer to identical situations. Therefore, the test of applicability of Article 6 under its criminal head will be the same for the three paragraphs.

11. The concept of “charge” has to be understood within the meaning of the Convention. The Court takes a “substantive”, rather than a “formal”, conception of the “charge” contemplated by Article 6 .... Charge may thus be defined as “the official notification given to an individual by the competent authority of an allegation that he has committed a criminal offence”, a definition that also corresponds to the test whether “the situation of the [suspect] has been substantially affected” ....

12. The Court held that a person arrested on suspicion of having committed a criminal offence ..., a suspect questioned about his involvement in acts constituting a criminal offence ... and a person who has been questioned in respect of his orher suspected involvement in an offence ..., irrespective of the fact that he or she was formaly treated as a witness ... as well as a person who has been formally charged with a criminal offence under procedure set out in domestic law ... could all be regarded as being “charged with a criminal offence” and claim the protection of Article 6 of the Convention. On the other hand, a person questioned in the context of a border control, in the absence of a need to determine the existence of a reasonable suspicion that she had committed an offence, was not considered to be under a criminal charge ....

14. .... For the Court, the taking of forensic samples on the crime scene and from the applicant and inviting the applicant to open an envelope in his office suggested that the authorities had treated the applicant as a suspect. In these circumstances, the information communicated to the applicant during the ensuing questioning had implicitly and substantially affected his situation, triggering the applicability of Article 6.

____

The police took Amanda Knox's phone and examined a message on it during the first interrogation of Nov. 5/6, 2007. Afterwards, they increasing treated her as a suspect and coerced the 1:45 am statement from her. The ECHR missed this (or it was not clearly pointed out to them); see point 14 above.

Instead, the ECHR "raised the question" whether Knox was a suspect during the first interrogation based on several indications, including that her questioning began while she was still in a corridor and the fact that she had been subjected to many hours of questioning prior to the first interrogation of Nov. 5/6. Conservatively, the ECHR then pointed out it was without any dispute that Knox was a suspect in the second interrogation of Nov. 5/6, which resulted in the 5:45 am coerced statement. This latter statement made without a lawyer, and the earlier statement made by Knox without a fair interpreter, were the basis for the two violations of Convention Article 6.1, with Article 6.3c and 6.3e, respectively.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 05:01 PM   #576
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Yes. And what's even more astonishing (and damning) is that the two most senior law enforcement officials involved in this "investigation" also seem to have attached evidentary weight to these sorts of things. For Giobbi to crow on camera that he "knew" Knox was guilty when she swivelled her hips a little, and for Mignini similarly to make ludicrous overinterpretations of other aspects of Knox's behaviour on 2-4 November, should make most Perugians very concerned, and should make the Italian state police and prosecutors' office feel very ashamed.
Another view of these statements by Giobbi and Mignini is that these are there cover stories. Did you expect them to admit that they decided to accuse two innocents of the rape and murder of Meredith Kercher just because the those two were "soft targets" and "convenient suspects"?

When the Italian cruise ship captain claimed he had inadvertently slid down the side of his ship into a lifeboat, and proceeded to leave the scene of the capsizing of the ship, did you accept that as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Could it have been a cover story since it's rather embarrassing for a captain to flee his ship before the supervision of the rescue of the passengers and crew is complete?
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Old 2nd July 2019, 05:20 PM   #577
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Does anyone seriously think Ficarra or any of her fellow cops would have admitted to smacking Knox, denying her the bathroom, or a lawyer, or threatening her? They'd have lost their jobs or worse. But the PGP would have us believe they wouldn't lie, but Knox would.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 05:53 PM   #578
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I can't help wondering if liver temperature is a more modern way (it's mentioned in a Yrsa crime novel I'm reading) but then, in 2007, rectal temperature was standard. In DD it is mentioned that Mignini was loath to move the body until the forensics had been gathered. Stefanoni and her team were already there so it made sense for them to continue.

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/es...-of-death.html
This is eerily similar to you claiming there were no bars on the window and then posting a picture of the window with bars on it. Are you attempting a misdirection by repeating exactly what I said?

I'll ask again - exactly HOW would measuring body temperature by making a small incision and inserting a thermometer into her liver put collecting DNA evidence at risk?
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Old 2nd July 2019, 09:36 PM   #579
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Question

Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Another view of these statements by Giobbi and Mignini is that these are there their cover stories. Did you expect them to admit that they decided to accuse two innocents of the rape and murder of Meredith Kercher just because the those two were "soft targets" and "convenient suspects"?

When the Italian cruise ship captain claimed he had inadvertently slid down the side of his ship into a lifeboat, and proceeded to leave the scene of the capsizing of the ship, did you accept that as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Could it have been a cover story since it's rather embarrassing for a captain to flee his ship before the supervision of the rescue of the passengers and crew is complete?
I may have mentioned this in a previous post.

Initially, I had accepted that Giobbi meant what he said about the reasons he suspected Amanda and Raffaele.

A long time after I first read of Giobbi's comments, I used Google Translate to get an English translation of his testimony before the Massei court. Not only does Giobbi mention perceiving Amanda's (alleged) hip wiggle as a clue suggesting her culpability in Meredith's murder/rape; he also, in response to a cross-examination question, states that the bloodstains found in the downstairs flat was left by a cat with a bloody ear. He does not claim to have seen the cat. But what alerted me to considering all his statements about how he came to his suspicions about Amanda and Raffaele as bogus was his response to a question about how there came to be a bloodstain by the light switch - much too high on a wall for a cat to brush against. He said that the cat jumped.

Now, I am not an expert in cat behavior, but I have shared apartments with cats and I am confident that an injured, bleeding cat would not jump about 4 feet in the air in order to bump its bleeding ear against a wall. A cat with a bleeding ear would probably seek shelter and no cat jumps to a place it can't land.

So I then saw Giobbi's absurd statements, including the ones were he inferred that the break-in had been staged, as cover for decisions he and Mignini made to snare the "softest targets", the "most convenient suspects", in order to close the case as quickly as possible.

Viewed that way, the events of the interrogations of Knox and Sollecito become the acts of rational, if unethical or dishonest, police, rather than a whole gaggle of fools.

And I suggest this behavior, and the absurd cover stories, may be typical of those Italian authorities who engage in unethical or dishonest practices. Perhaps that is because the Italian government and Superior Council of the Judiciary can forgive fools but must (appear to) discipline dishonesty.

Last edited by Numbers; 2nd July 2019 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 11:22 PM   #580
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[quote=TruthCalls;12743512]This is eerily similar to you claiming there were no bars on the window and then posting a picture of the window with bars on it. Are you attempting a misdirection by repeating exactly what I said?

I'll ask again - exactly HOW would measuring body temperature by making a small incision and inserting a thermometer into her liver put collecting DNA evidence at risk?[/QUOTE]

If Vixen follows her usual, she will simply ignore this as she does anything she cannot/ does not want to answer. See my multiple requests to address the Krissy G "stiletto" question.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 08:17 AM   #581
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I feel as though I have landed in the middle of a group of eleven-year old Justin Bieber groupies.
Then go find the 10-year-old Slenderman groupies as you'd fit in there even better. And they might actually want you.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 09:10 AM   #582
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The police did everything by the book.

If you prefer to believe a convicted liar, that is your prerogative.
Originally Posted by whoanellie View Post
There's a book that says you shouldn't test a semen stain when you find a women stabbed to death in her bedroom?
I don't know of any 'book' that instructs the police to:

1. Use dirty gloves to collect samples
2. Pass evidence around before bagging
3. Put evidence in a random box previously used to store other items
4. Collect an identified piece of evidence 46 days later
5. Not change shoe covers between rooms
6. Declare "case closed" before any forensic evidence has been returned
7. Declare a burglary staged based on assumptions rather than evidence
8. Leak false information to the media
9. Not provide a suspect with a lawyer as required by law
10. Not provide a suspect with a neutral interpreter as required by law
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Old 3rd July 2019, 09:26 AM   #583
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I don't know of any 'book' that instructs the police to:

1. Use dirty gloves to collect samples
2. Pass evidence around before bagging
3. Put evidence in a random box previously used to store other items
4. Collect an identified piece of evidence 46 days later
5. Not change shoe covers between rooms
6. Declare "case closed" before any forensic evidence has been returned
7. Declare a burglary staged based on assumptions rather than evidence
8. Leak false information to the media
9. Not provide a suspect with a lawyer as required by law
10. Not provide a suspect with a neutral interpreter as required by law
But aside from all this, Vixen is quite correct.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 10:49 AM   #584
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
I may have mentioned this in a previous post.

Initially, I had accepted that Giobbi meant what he said about the reasons he suspected Amanda and Raffaele.

A long time after I first read of Giobbi's comments, I used Google Translate to get an English translation of his testimony before the Massei court. Not only does Giobbi mention perceiving Amanda's (alleged) hip wiggle as a clue suggesting her culpability in Meredith's murder/rape; he also, in response to a cross-examination question, states that the bloodstains found in the downstairs flat was left by a cat with a bloody ear. He does not claim to have seen the cat. But what alerted me to considering all his statements about how he came to his suspicions about Amanda and Raffaele as bogus was his response to a question about how there came to be a bloodstain by the light switch - much too high on a wall for a cat to brush against. He said that the cat jumped.

Now, I am not an expert in cat behavior, but I have shared apartments with cats and I am confident that an injured, bleeding cat would not jump about 4 feet in the air in order to bump its bleeding ear against a wall. A cat with a bleeding ear would probably seek shelter and no cat jumps to a place it can't land.

So I then saw Giobbi's absurd statements, including the ones were he inferred that the break-in had been staged, as cover for decisions he and Mignini made to snare the "softest targets", the "most convenient suspects", in order to close the case as quickly as possible.

Viewed that way, the events of the interrogations of Knox and Sollecito become the acts of rational, if unethical or dishonest, police, rather than a whole gaggle of fools.

And I suggest this behavior, and the absurd cover stories, may be typical of those Italian authorities who engage in unethical or dishonest practices. Perhaps that is because the Italian government and Superior Council of the Judiciary can forgive fools but must (appear to) discipline dishonesty.
On cover-ups, especially absurd coverups:

Many may remember the Watergate incident that occurred during US President Nixon's administration. A group broke into the offices, located in the Watergate building in Washington, DC, of the Democratic Party. There were allegations of connections between that group and the Nixon administration, including the president. It turned out that President Nixon had a voice-activated recorder that recorded conversations, which Congress obtained through court order, between him and his staff which suggested that at a minimum he was involved in a cover-up of the break-in.

One of the incidents relating to this recording was that there was an 18.5 minute gap of the recording of a possibly critical conversation between Nixon and a staff official. The question arose as to what had caused the gap. Here is an excerpt from a news article about an absurd explanation of the cause of the gap that was offered by Nixon's secretary:

".... On November 17, 1973, the White House informed Federal District Judge John Sirica that the 18 1/2 minute Nixon-Haldeman conversation of June 20, 1972, had been erased. White House Counsel Fred Buzhardt told the Court that he no explanation for the erasure.

Nixon’s Secretary Rose Mary Woods took the blame for the first five minutes of the erasure. She said that she had been transcribing the tape, and when she reached to take a phone call, her foot hit a pedal on the recording machine, inadvertently causing the tape player to “record” over the original tape’s contents. Reporters were called to the White House to watch her perform a re-enactment, and the photos of her performing a tremendous stretch, which she supposedly held for five minutes, were rejected as implausible. Moreover, the particular tape recording machine does not operate the way she had claimed; simply pressing the foot pedal to “record” would not initiate a recording unless the play button was being manually depressed at the very same time.

Chief of Staff Alexander Haig blamed the 18 1/2 minute gap on a “sinister force.” In January 1974, experts who examined the tape reported that were four or five separate erasures."

Here is the relevance to the Knox - Sollecito case:

1. It should not be assumed that officials, including police officers, prosecutors, or judges, are telling the truth regarding their actions which on inspection are unethical or unlawful.

2. When explanations of actions by those officials are absurd or contrary to empirical reality, one should be especially skeptical.

3. Therefore, one should be skeptical of the absurd rationales offered by VQA Giobbi and PM Mignini for their actions, in particular their claims that Amanda's or Raffaele's behavior triggered their suspicions.

4. One should also be skeptical of the police rationales, not developed through empirical evidence, that the break-in was staged or that Meredith Kercher was attacked by more than one person.

Source for the news quote about Watergate:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.164bab21cfb2

Last edited by Numbers; 3rd July 2019 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 11:39 AM   #585
Stacyhs
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Meanwhile...over on TJMK with LooneyTunes Slick Pete:

Quote:
Fuss in the Sun and Daily Mail in the UK over Guede being out now on work release.

But he’s been out before, he’s the only one to show any sorrow to the Kerchers, he’s the only one that did not stalk them, he’s the only one setting himself up for a worthwhile career, he’s the only one with no lust for blood-money. And no Italians think that he or Sollecito wielded the knife that killed Meredith.

Comments posted are not all in tune with the tut-tutting of the Sun and Mail reports. Neither mentioned the bent Fifth Chambers still placed Knox at the scene of the crime, or a few hundred other things.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 07/01/19 at 10:09 AM | #
Is this idiot for real? Guede is the only one to show sorrow for the Kerchers? When did he, the convicted killer, ever say "Sorry for stabbing your daughter to death and sexually assaulting her!" And he's the only one who didn't 'stalk' them? LOL! Does he think Knox or Sollecito was driving by the Kercher's house counting their bushes a la Peggy Ganong? Exactly when does he think Guede even could have "stalked" the Kerchers? During one of his day releases on a quick flight Ryanair to England?

NO Italian thinks anyone but Knox wielded the knife? What is it with the PGP on TJMK who think they know what everyone thinks, including all Italians? What a moron. Why is it that every judge or expert that doesn't agree with their guilt conviction is "bent"? That man..and his teeny tiny remaining whacko fans... need help. Seriously.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 11:57 AM   #586
Bill Williams
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
NO Italian thinks anyone but Knox wielded the knife? What is it with the PGP on TJMK who think they know what everyone thinks, including all Italians? What a moron. Why is it that every judge or expert that doesn't agree with their guilt conviction is "bent"? That man..and his teeny tiny remaining whacko fans... need help. Seriously.
The gaslighting goes like this:
1) No Italian thinks anyone but Knox wielded the knife
2) Those Italians who think Knox had nothing to do with it are Masons, liars, and sell outs to American media interests.
#2 is proof that #1 is false, even if half of Italy are Masons,liars, and sell outs.

Perhaps the most concise analysis of the Marasca-Bruno report comes from a living and breathing Italian.

https://www.groundreport.com/knox-an...o-final-words/

But prepare for this Italian to be attacked mercilessly, despite the fact that no Italian believes as this Italian does. Even he doesn't believe what he wrote, because he's Italian, and no Italian believes as this Italian does.

It's so confusing!
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.

Last edited by Bill Williams; 3rd July 2019 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 02:57 PM   #587
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Originally Posted by AnimalFriendly View Post
Then go find the 10-year-old Slenderman groupies as you'd fit in there even better. And they might actually want you.
Aw, that's not very nice.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 02:59 PM   #588
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I don't know of any 'book' that instructs the police to:

1. Use dirty gloves to collect samples
2. Pass evidence around before bagging
3. Put evidence in a random box previously used to store other items
4. Collect an identified piece of evidence 46 days later
5. Not change shoe covers between rooms
6. Declare "case closed" before any forensic evidence has been returned
7. Declare a burglary staged based on assumptions rather than evidence
8. Leak false information to the media
9. Not provide a suspect with a lawyer as required by law
10. Not provide a suspect with a neutral interpreter as required by law
You've made all of that up.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 03:00 PM   #589
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
But aside from all this, Vixen is quite correct.
Thank you.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 03:02 PM   #590
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Meanwhile...over on TJMK with LooneyTunes Slick Pete:



Is this idiot for real? Guede is the only one to show sorrow for the Kerchers? When did he, the convicted killer, ever say "Sorry for stabbing your daughter to death and sexually assaulting her!" And he's the only one who didn't 'stalk' them? LOL! Does he think Knox or Sollecito was driving by the Kercher's house counting their bushes a la Peggy Ganong? Exactly when does he think Guede even could have "stalked" the Kerchers? During one of his day releases on a quick flight Ryanair to England?

NO Italian thinks anyone but Knox wielded the knife? What is it with the PGP on TJMK who think they know what everyone thinks, including all Italians? What a moron. Why is it that every judge or expert that doesn't agree with their guilt conviction is "bent"? That man..and his teeny tiny remaining whacko fans... need help. Seriously.
Calm down.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 03:26 PM   #591
sept79
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Meanwhile...over on TJMK with LooneyTunes Slick Pete:



Is this idiot for real? Guede is the only one to show sorrow for the Kerchers? When did he, the convicted killer, ever say "Sorry for stabbing your daughter to death and sexually assaulting her!" And he's the only one who didn't 'stalk' them? LOL! Does he think Knox or Sollecito was driving by the Kercher's house counting their bushes a la Peggy Ganong? Exactly when does he think Guede even could have "stalked" the Kerchers? During one of his day releases on a quick flight Ryanair to England?

NO Italian thinks anyone but Knox wielded the knife? What is it with the PGP on TJMK who think they know what everyone thinks, including all Italians? What a moron. Why is it that every judge or expert that doesn't agree with their guilt conviction is "bent"? That man..and his teeny tiny remaining whacko fans... need help. Seriously.


A name from out of the past. Does anyone know how class act Peggy ('thanks for dropping by') Ganong is doing? Doesn't she live only a few miles from the Knox family.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 05:16 PM   #592
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Originally Posted by sept79 View Post
A name from out of the past. Does anyone know how class act Peggy ('thanks for dropping by') Ganong is doing? Doesn't she live only a few miles from the Knox family.
Supposedly Peggy also lives in West Seattle where Amanda's family lives. So yes to your last question. I also lived in West Seattle for a few years. But I can't say I know much about her other than she was a character.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 05:20 PM   #593
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You've made all of that up.
No, she didn't.

Give it up Vixen. Amanda and Raffaele are innocent. Find some other batcrap crazy thing to get involved in. I hear there is this religion where they believe in the walking dead. Why not try that?
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Old 3rd July 2019, 05:28 PM   #594
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I don't know of any 'book' that instructs the police to:

1. Use dirty gloves to collect samples
2. Pass evidence around before bagging
3. Put evidence in a random box previously used to store other items
4. Collect an identified piece of evidence 46 days later
5. Not change shoe covers between rooms
6. Declare "case closed" before any forensic evidence has been returned
7. Declare a burglary staged based on assumptions rather than evidence
8. Leak false information to the media
9. Not provide a suspect with a lawyer as required by law
10. Not provide a suspect with a neutral interpreter as required by law
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You've made all of that up.
#1,2, & 4:
Quote:
The judges said that one of Ms Kercher's bra clasps, which prosecutors argued carried a trace of Mr Sollecito's DNA, was left on the floor of the murder scene for 46 days, and then "was passed from hand to hand of the workers, who, furthermore, were wearing dirty latex gloves".
#3:
Quote:
"The kitchen knife, found in Sollecito's house and the supposed crime weapon, was kept in an ordinary cardboard box,''
Quote:
No forensics expert, Gubbiotti first stored the knife in a calendar box, then repacked it and stuck it in a closet, and finally sent it to the crime lab in Rome.
Burleigh, Nina. The Fatal Gift of Beauty: The Trials of Amanda Knox (p. 202).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34177293

#5:
Quote:
Screening extracts from videos made by Stefanoni’s forensic team while it was gathering samples at the cottage,…
Conti’s list went on and on. One person dressed in jeans and a sweater entered Meredith’s room and touched the body; another touched the edges of one of her throat wounds; Stefanoni’s gloves were smudged with blood and split over her left index when she picked up a sample; the officer filming the police video walked in and out of Meredith’s room without changing his shoe covers;
Follain, John. A Death in Italy: The Definitive Account of the Amanda Knox Case . St. Martin's Press. Kindle Edition.

#6:
Perugia's police chief, Arturo De Felice, declared "caso chiuso" on the same day Amanda was arrested: Nov. 6, 2007.
The forensic results were first reported to Mignini on Nov. 15, 2007 more than a week after "caso chiuso" was declared.
(see location 2404, Kindle version A Death in Italy by John Follain)

#7:
Quote:
He looked into Filomena’s room and like Napoleoni before him, he noticed the shards of glass on top of the piles of clothes and the large stone on the floor; it was obvious to him too that it could never have come through the window without shattering the shutters. He thought immediately that the window must have been broken by someone standing inside the room. ‘There’s a traitor in this house, someone who participated in the crime or helped to cover it up or who did both,’ Mignini thought to himself. Perhaps the killer had entered through the front door, and staged a fake burglary to throw suspicion on an outsider, assisted by someone living in the cottage – in either of the two flats – who at the very least, acted as an accomplice to the murder.
Follain, John. A Death in Italy: The Definitive Account of the Amanda Knox Case

Filomena testified that she saw glass both on top and below objects. No glass shatter analysis was ever done to determine the direction of breakage.

Quote:
Outside the cottage, Mignini looked at Filomena’s window, puzzling over it with Chiacchiera and Napoleoni. He agreed with them that it was an unlikely point of entry for a burglar to choose. The window was too high up for anyone to scale the wall
Follain, John. A Death in Italy: The Definitive Account of the Amanda Knox Case . St. Martin's Press. Kindle Edition.

Except is wasn't as shown in the British video.

#8 Among the false stories leaked to the media:
Quote:
Investigators say Mr Guede left Perugia on the morning after the murder and went to Milan, where he was stopped by police but not detained. Detectives locked on to his mobile phone signal in Milan as recently as this weekend, but it then went dead. Amanda Knox made at least two calls to his number, one of them at 11am on 2 November, around the time police discovered Kercher’s body.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...er-758731.html

Quote:
Investigator Giuliano Mignini claimed a bloody fingerprint belonging to Amanda Knox had been found on a bathroom tap.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7116184.stm

Quote:
According to a report by the Times of London, University of Washington student Amanda Knox told investigators that on the night of Meredith Kercher’s murder, she was at her Italian boyfriend’s flat where they read several pages of a Harry Potter novel “in the German edition.”

However, investigators said the novel was not found at Raffaele Sollecito’s flat but instead at the cottage Knox shared with Kercher.
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/12643316.html

#9,#10:

See the ECHR ruling of Feb. 2109. Or shall I quote them for you?

Unlike you, Vixen, when I make a claim as fact, I can actually cite sources as evidence.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 05:29 PM   #595
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Calm down.
Stop lying.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 05:48 PM   #596
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You've made all of that up.
Ah, er, no.

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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 06:07 PM   #597
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
It gets worse if you believe St. John of Follain:
Quote:
Stefanoni’s gloves were smudged with blood and split over her left index when she picked up a sample
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Old 3rd July 2019, 06:15 PM   #598
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I feel as though I have landed in the middle of a group of eleven-year old Justin Bieber groupies.

Wrong pop artist. "Bye Bye Bye" (as in, what the Italian Supreme Court said to to Knox's and Sollecito's murder convictions and what the ECHR said to Knox's calunnia conviction) was by NSYNC.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 06:37 PM   #599
Numbers
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
#1,2, & 4:


#3:


Burleigh, Nina. The Fatal Gift of Beauty: The Trials of Amanda Knox (p. 202).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34177293

#5:

Follain, John. A Death in Italy: The Definitive Account of the Amanda Knox Case . St. Martin's Press. Kindle Edition.

#6:
Perugia's police chief, Arturo De Felice, declared "caso chiuso" on the same day Amanda was arrested: Nov. 6, 2007.
The forensic results were first reported to Mignini on Nov. 15, 2007 more than a week after "caso chiuso" was declared.
(see location 2404, Kindle version A Death in Italy by John Follain)

#7:

Follain, John. A Death in Italy: The Definitive Account of the Amanda Knox Case

Filomena testified that she saw glass both on top and below objects. No glass shatter analysis was ever done to determine the direction of breakage.


Follain, John. A Death in Italy: The Definitive Account of the Amanda Knox Case . St. Martin's Press. Kindle Edition.

Except is wasn't as shown in the British video.

#8 Among the false stories leaked to the media:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...er-758731.html


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7116184.stm


http://www.komonews.com/news/local/12643316.html

#9,#10:

See the ECHR ruling of Feb. 2109. Or shall I quote them for you?

Unlike you, Vixen, when I make a claim as fact, I can actually cite sources as evidence.
Actually the ECHR judgment Knox v. Italy was published 24 January 2019, and became final 24 June 2019. It would have become final on 24 April 2019, but Italy requested a referral to the Grand Chamber, which was rejected by the Grand Chamber Panel. Here's the text of the title page of the judgment:

AFFAIRE KNOX c. ITALIE

(Requête no 76577/13)

ARRÊT

STRASBOURG

24 janvier 2019

DÉFINITIF

24/06/2019
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Old 3rd July 2019, 06:39 PM   #600
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Aw, that's not very nice.
I know.
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